Dick Cheney Hits Back at Obama/Holder!

[andymays]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26587.html

Excerpt:

“I wasn’t a fan of his when he got elected, and my views haven’t changed any,” Cheney said in an interview that aired on Fox News Sunday. “I have serious doubts about his policies, serious doubts especially about the extent to which he understands and is prepared to do what needs to be done to defend the nation.”

While Cheney has been uncharacteristically vocal since leaving office in January, this was his first interview since Attorney General Eric Holder announced an investigation into interrogations carried out by CIA personnel during the Bush administration.

He said the investigation is “an outrageous precedent to set” and will have consequences
for the country’s national security.
“It’s clearly a political move,” Cheney said. “There’s no other rationale for why they’re doing this.”

Cheney accused Obama of going back on his word not to look back and investigate enhanced interrogation techniques sanctioned by the Bush administration because he got “a little heat from the left wing of the Democratic Party.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26587.html#ixzz0PgsdYwwC

[ArlJim78]

the whole justice department is politcal now.
we can't set free the Gitmo detainees fast enough.
they shut down the investigation into Richardson.
they dropped the case against the Black panthers.
Inspectors general have been put on notice, don't look too close or else you're fired.

oh, but lets take a hard look at prosecuting the CIA, even though it's already been dealt with and will be impossible to prove.

[andymays]

the whole justice department is politcal now.
we can't set free the Gitmo detainees fast enough.
they shut down the investigation into Richardson.
they dropped the case against the Black panthers.
Inspectors general have been put on notice, don't look too close or else you're fired.

oh, but lets take a hard look at prosecuting the CIA, even though it's already been dealt with and will be impossible to prove.


Great points all! :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Who has more to further Al Qeda's cause the last 6 months - Osama or Obama?

[andymays]

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/08/khalid-sheik-mohammed-stood-before-us.html

Excerpt:

SUNDAY, AUGUST 30, 2009

"Khalid Sheik Mohammed stood before U.S. intelligence officers in a makeshift lecture hall, leading what they called 'terrorist tutorials.'"

The Washington Post tells us just how much KSM told, as a result of the use of "harsh interrogation techniques":

In 2005 and 2006, the bearded, pudgy man who calls himself the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks discussed a wide variety of subjects, including Greek philosophy and al-Qaeda dogma. In one instance, he scolded a listener for poor note-taking and his inability to recall details of an earlier lecture.
The captive terrorist took advantage of the opportunity to act like the kind of teacher who lords his power over you.

Speaking in English, Mohammed "seemed to relish the opportunity, sometimes for hours on end, to discuss the inner workings of al-Qaeda and the group's plans, ideology and operatives," said one of two sources who described the sessions, speaking on the condition of anonymity because much information about detainee confinement remains classified. "He'd even use a chalkboard at times."

[Tom]

What is really sad is some of the so call torture techniques they used that everyone was in such and uproar about! Lot of WOOSIES out there.
I suppose if your wife or mother or child was held hostage you would rather not have the cops use a drill to scare information out a suspect! You would let you family die rather than "upset little Habib!" Sickening, really.
and so much for the standard lib-issued crap about not being effective - we k now know that it was effective, it was accurate, it was enough to prevent attacks ore than once. But the libs are only concern for poor little Habib and his bomber vest. Sickening that we allow such woosie-trash to call themselves citizens and live here.

The next attack - and it is inevitable - is solely on the heads of the libs who have surrendered to terrorism and sold out the country. The Obama supporters, who also support Osama by definition.

[pktruckdriver]

Ouch that was a big one to swallow, but my opinion is this



IF YOU ARE INTEROGATING SOMEONE YOU CAUGHT AS BEING A TERRORIST, NO MATTER WHERE IN THE WORLD YOU CAUGHT HIM OR HER, AND YOU NEED INFO OUT OF THEM, INFO THAT WOULD PREVENT EVEN ONE (1) INNOCENT LIFE FROM DYING, LET ALONE THOUSANDS, THEN DO WHAT EVER YOU HAVE TO, I MEAN WHAT EVER YOU HAVE TO.


DO THEY NOT CUT OFF OUR HEADS WHEN WE GET CAUGHT BY THEM, YES THEY DO, FINGERS AND TOES TOO, PRIVATE PARTS TOO, SO WHY SHOULD WE HOLD BACK ON THEM, BECAUSE WE ARE CIVLIZED, BULLSHYT BULLSHYT BULLSHYT, TORTURE THE MM FFING TO GET WHAT YOU NEED AND THEN BURN THEM, NO EVIDENCE LEFT AND MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, LIVES SAVED


Just the opinion of someone who lOst someone on Sept. 11th, do what you need to, the Bible says an eye for an eye , good enough for me.


patrick

[cj's dad]

Amen Patrick !!:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[mostpost]

“I wasn’t a fan of his when he got elected, and my views haven’t changed any,” Cheney said
OH DEAR! Dick doesn't like Barack. However shall we survive? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Tom]

With this Garbage N Cheif, many of us are wondering that.

[46zilzal]

Kill more people and then at the same time preach being at PEACE. What malarkey.

No wonder years and years of blow back is coming to roost around the world.

[boxcar]

Kill more people and then at the same time preach being at PEACE. What malarkey.

And just who has been preachin' peace? Oh...that great religion of "peace"? Islam, I think it's called. :rolleyes:

No wonder years and years of blow back is coming to roost around the world.

Now if we could only find a way to get you caught up in it. :D

Boxcar

[Mongo]

And just who has been preachin' peace? Oh...that great religion of "peace"? Islam, I think it's called. :rolleyes:



Now if we could only find a way to get you caught up in it. :D

Boxcar

How many Muslims do you know and converse with?

[Tom]

You even more boring the second ( third?) time around.

Why don't you give us a run down on the Mass pandemic act that violates our civil rights and flies in the face of the constitution. Make yourself useful.
See how well you can spin that one .

[hcap]

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z205/JekyllnHyde_photos/August%2016th/August%2023rd/August%2030th/cg49f6f7789f3b30.jpg

[Bochall]

It may sound contrary to my posts in the past, but I support waterboarding. I realize that my Gov't. must do some tough things to some bad people to protect us, and I am OK with that. Notice that we haven't been attacked since 9/11. Why is that? Dontcha think these large terrorist groups coulda pulled off minor operations like bus bombings if they wanted? Seems a small one or two man gig to me and it hasn't happened...why? Hamas, al Qaeda and others haven't been put in their place by the war and changed their minds about destroying us....so SOMETHING is preventing it. Squeezing some scumbag really hard to get info seems to work. No, i don't care to witness these acts, but i also don't wanna see how my hamburger gets to my plate either...but i'm eatin it!

[boxcar]

It may sound contrary to my posts in the past, but I support waterboarding. I realize that my Gov't. must do some tough things to some bad people to protect us, and I am OK with that. Notice that we haven't been attacked since 9/11. Why is that? Dontcha think these large terrorist groups coulda pulled off minor operations like bus bombings if they wanted? Seems a small one or two man gig to me and it hasn't happened...why? Hamas, al Qaeda and others haven't been put in their place by the war and changed their minds about destroying us....so SOMETHING is preventing it. Squeezing some scumbag really hard to get info seems to work. No, i don't care to witness these acts, but i also don't wanna see how my hamburger gets to my plate either...but i'm eatin it!

Thank you for proving there is a God in heaven; for he has graciously let some of his light penetrate your skull. Hallelujah! Do I hear a hearty Amen!?

Boxcar
P.S. I like your hamburger analogy, too. :D

[Black Ruby]

It may sound contrary to my posts in the past, but I support waterboarding. I realize that my Gov't. must do some tough things to some bad people to protect us, and I am OK with that. Notice that we haven't been attacked since 9/11. Why is that? Dontcha think these large terrorist groups coulda pulled off minor operations like bus bombings if they wanted? Seems a small one or two man gig to me and it hasn't happened...why? Hamas, al Qaeda and others haven't been put in their place by the war and changed their minds about destroying us....so SOMETHING is preventing it. Squeezing some scumbag really hard to get info seems to work. No, i don't care to witness these acts, but i also don't wanna see how my hamburger gets to my plate either...but i'm eatin it!

Our embassy in Yemen was attacked last Sept. 10 people were killed outside, but the walls weren't breached. The attack was credited to Al Qaeda.

[Tom]

We are talking about attacks here at home.
But not for much longer.:rolleyes:

[Bochall]

Our embassy in Yemen was attacked last Sept. 10 people were killed outside, but the walls weren't breached. The attack was credited to Al Qaeda. Why the hell do we have an embassy in Yemen anyway? But seriously, I was referring to attacks in our country. Yes, our embassy is U.S. soil but you know what I mean.

Geez Boxcar, you still choose to insult even when i post something you agree with. Khalil Gibran the Prophet said: Holding anger towards someone is like picking up a hot rock with the intention of throwing it at them...it is you who gets burned. Yeah, you probably dont agree with or read ANYONE named Khalil, but whaaaaaaaaateva...

[Black Ruby]

Well then, they've killed thousands of our people in Afghanistan and Iraq, and wounded 10's of thousands more. They've cost us trillions of dollars. We haven't found Osama. Maybe the enemy feels like they're wreaking enough havoc on us on their homecourt so attacking us here isn't necessary.

[andymays]

Emasculating American Intelligence

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/boot/82552

Excerpt:

All I can say is that I am not offended by the authorized techniques laid out in the CIA inspector general’s report—techniques such as sleep deprivation, shackling, and on a few occasions waterboarding, all of it carefully supervised by medical personnel so as not to cause physical harm. I might add that the CIA techniques were very different from the gross abuses at Abu Ghraib.

[Tom]

I called for nuking the hell out of the whole area back in 2001.
Still do.

But to the point, we know that our so called torture techniques DID prevent planned attacks here - and NO ONE was maimed, killed, permanently injured, whatever doing so. WE did not just go cell to cell picking people and telling them "It's Torture Day!" We KNEW who we had, we KNEW they had information and we damn well went in and got it. And anyone who is upset by that is not fit to call themselves an American.

[Black Ruby]

I called for nuking the hell out of the whole area back in 2001.
Still do.

But to the point, we know that our so called torture techniques DID prevent planned attacks here - and NO ONE was maimed, killed, permanently injured, whatever doing so. WE did not just go cell to cell picking people and telling them "It's Torture Day!" We KNEW who we had, we KNEW they had information and we damn well went in and got it. And anyone who is upset by that is not fit to call themselves an American.

You "know" that only because those whose purpose it serves to have us believe that told you that. Didn't the CIA, when GHW Bush was head of the CIA, train Obama and his followers? Do you think that the CIA would admit "well, no, our waterboarding and other methods haven't really been productive"? This is the same CIA that didn't admit for over thirty years that it had made at least 5 attempts to kill Castro, the same CIA that experimented on US sailors with LSD.

There are a number of intelligence officers who disagree with the waterboarding and other techniques used because of the unreliability of the information gained.

[boxcar]

You "know" that only because those whose purpose it serves to have us believe that told you that. Didn't the CIA, when GHW Bush was head of the CIA, train Obama and his followers? Do you think that the CIA would admit "well, no, our waterboarding and other methods haven't really been productive"?

If this is the case -- if waterboarding has been ineffective, why has the CIA continued using this method? It would seem to me they would have discontinued this approach and moved on to others -- perhaps smearing hot bacon grease over terrorists not-so-gorgeous naked bodies, for example. Talk about a double whammy... :)

Boxcar

[Black Ruby]

Remember what our government told us about Jessica Lynch, and then what the real story turned out to be?

Boxcar, you only have to go back to Abu Ghraib to get a possible answer to your question, some of the people doing this get caught up in what they think is effective or retributive, or might even be sadist enough to enjoy what they're doing.

[boxcar]

Remember what our government told us about Jessica Lynch, and then what the real story turned out to be?

Boxcar, you only have to go back to Abu Ghraib to get a possible answer to your question, some of the people doing this get caught up in what they think is effective or retributive, or might even be sadist enough to enjoy what they're doing.

You didn't answer my question. If waterboarding is so ineffective, why would the CIA waste time using it? Why would the CIA allow this technique to become the centerpiece of discussion, criticism, controversy, etc. if it was ineffective? Why didn't the agency move on to other methods -- more drastic ones, perhaps?

Boxcar

[Black Ruby]

You didn't answer my question. If waterboarding is so ineffective, why would the CIA waste time using it? Why would the CIA allow this technique to become the centerpiece of discussion, criticism, controversy, etc. if it was ineffective? Why didn't the agency move on to other methods -- more drastic ones, perhaps?

Boxcar

I did address your question, it could be that they got caught up in the administration of the technique so much that whether or not it solicited valuable information became secondary or tertiary to the release they got from waterboarding people. Maybe the CIA has been using other techniques that are more harsh, and judged that it was better to deflect attention to the waterboarding than have the country discover what they've done. With the uproar over waterboarding, the discovery that they've used harsher techniques would likely put them under new scrutiny that they surely don't want.
The only indication that waterboarding has been effective comes via the CIA, and they're not likely to tell us that they used it and got bad information, are they? After all, no one seems to have given us definitive information on how and where we could capture Osama.

[Tom]

So if waterboarding is, say only 50% effective - why NOT use it? ( it is far MORE effective)
You got a BETTER suggestion?

The fact that we used it effectively, though, makes you argument moot - it worked and the other so-called torture ( Ha!) techniques worked. End of story.

[boxcar]

I did address your question, it could be that they got caught up in the administration of the technique so much that whether or not it solicited valuable information became secondary or tertiary to the release they got from waterboarding people. Maybe the CIA has been using other techniques that are more harsh, and judged that it was better to deflect attention to the waterboarding than have the country discover what they've done. With the uproar over waterboarding, the discovery that they've used harsher techniques would likely put them under new scrutiny that they surely don't want.
The only indication that waterboarding has been effective comes via the CIA, and they're not likely to tell us that they used it and got bad information, are they? After all, no one seems to have given us definitive information on how and where we could capture Osama.

I thought about the "deflection" excuse, too. Might be, but not likely. They're been doing a lot of other things besides waterboarding, such as using the more psychological techniques.

Also, your Osama reason is weak. It could well be that literally only a handful of people in the world actually know his whereabouts at any given time. Those captured might actually be too low level to have this kind of info. Plus, even if they knew where he was "yesterday" that doesn't mean he's there "today" or will be there "tomorrow". I have to think he's constantly on the move.

The bottom line is this: Waterboarding, no waterboarding, using other more drastic methods, etc.. whatever it is that the CIA has been doing, I'm all in favor of it because so far since 9/11 we have suffered no attacks on U.S. soil. To me, this says they must be doing something right (whatever those things might be). To you, you'd rather ignore the good results and put America more at risk by pretending that the CIA is playing with nice guys.

Boxcar

[Black Ruby]

I thought about the "deflection" excuse, too. Might be, but not likely. They're been doing a lot of other things besides waterboarding, such as using the more psychological techniques.

Also, your Osama reason is weak. It could well be that literally only a handful of people in the world actually know his whereabouts at any given time. Those captured might actually be too low level to have this kind of info. Plus, even if they knew where he was "yesterday" that doesn't mean he's there "today" or will be there "tomorrow". I have to think he's constantly on the move.

The bottom line is this: Waterboarding, no waterboarding, using other more drastic methods, etc.. whatever it is that the CIA has been doing, I'm all in favor of it because so far since 9/11 we have suffered no attacks on U.S. soil. To me, this says they must be doing something right (whatever those things might be). To you, you'd rather ignore the good results and put America more at risk by pretending that the CIA is playing with nice guys.

Boxcar

How many attacks by foreign terrorists have their been on US soil in the last 20 years? How much time was there between attacks? It's not like there have been frequent attacks in this country and those have been stopped.

As to Osama moving frequently, that's been a stickler with me for years. If you really wanted to catch a nomadic terrorist, and you say you know where he is, would you give several days warning that you were going to invade to capture him?

[Tom]

How many attacks by foreign terrorists have their been on US soil in the last 20 years? How much time was there between attacks? It's not like there have been frequent attacks in this country and those have been stopped. Stopped thanks to water boarding, and other effective means of interrogation. If you look at the 90's - we had a series of attacks highlighted by the two WTC ones - including barracks, the Cole........the level and success margin of these has diminished greatly. What can you suggest that the OBama people have done that will continue that trend? Or, will they enable terrorists to pick up where they left off?

As to Osama moving frequently, that's been a stickler with me for years. If you really wanted to catch a nomadic terrorist, and you say you know where he is, would you give several days warning that you were going to invade to capture him?

According to your new boy in the WH, you need to get a warrant and a lawyer for him.

[Black Ruby]

They were talking about foreign terrorist attacks on US soil.

And I'm definitely no fan of Obama. You're one of the many who defines "liberal" as anyone who doesn't agree with you politically.

[Tom]

I define liberal as those who subscribe to ridiculous ideas, such as socialism, big government, higher taxes, soft on national security, hand-out oriented, anti-productivity.......but I didn't mention libs in my reply, unless you took my your boy comment to mean that - but you seem to support his views more than effective ones.

[ddog]

I called for nuking the hell out of the whole area back in 2001.
Still do.

But to the point, we know that our so called torture techniques DID prevent planned attacks here - and NO ONE was maimed, killed, permanently injured, whatever doing so. WE did not just go cell to cell picking people and telling them "It's Torture Day!" We KNEW who we had, we KNEW they had information and we damn well went in and got it. And anyone who is upset by that is not fit to call themselves an American.


as usual, you are wrong on all your points.

people were maimed and killed.
we didn't know who we had in all cases, we knew in some HVD cases, in the field, no way.
We did in fact go cell to cell (if they ended up in one) and do a torture day.
We also made sure that the cells we passed knew if could be torture day.
We sent people to countries that we knew use methods we don't approve of.
Still.

Anyone who blindly accepts things that are done in our name and worse blindly accepts anything that could be done in our name is actually not fit or sane.


You are a sad excuse for a True American, sadly the standard IS THIS LOW now days.
You see the rot in the country all around , the lack of anything passing for moral standards.

If we wish to perform actions that are outside the bounds of various laws and treaties we are a party to, then change those laws, withdraw from those treaties.

Don't just wink and nod and tar the sacrifice of past honorable people who gave their lives for better than this.

[Black Ruby]

I define liberal as those who subscribe to ridiculous ideas, such as socialism, big government, higher taxes, soft on national security, hand-out oriented, anti-productivity.......but I didn't mention libs in my reply, unless you took my your boy comment to mean that - but you seem to support his views more than effective ones.

Obama is continuing the wars, I oppose that. Obama hasn't stopped the torture. Although he says he favors healthcare reform, I don't like some of his proposals and his recent giveaway to the pharmas. I opposed his selection of Geithner, I oppose the reappointment of Bernanke. I opposed several of his cabinet selections, and I generally consider him a disingenuous poser. I oppose his proposed increase in the EIC, it's a much abused program. I've given an obnoxious Acorner 5 seconds to get off my front porch when he came around collecting and wanted to discuss why I didn't think Acorn was a good idea or organization. I think affirmative action has run it's course, and may now be counter-productive to those it's supposed to be helping. I think we should close some of our 1000 military bases on foreign soil.

I think people should empower themselves as much as possible. Do for yourself what you're capable of. Help those that can't help themselves, not those that can but won't.

[boxcar]

How many attacks by foreign terrorists have their been on US soil in the last 20 years? How much time was there between attacks? It's not like there have been frequent attacks in this country and those have been stopped.

You tell me. The fact remains is that we are now living in post 911 era. No attacks on U.S. soil since then. So, why try to fix something that isn't broken? What part of "success" don't you like or understand?

As to Osama moving frequently, that's been a stickler with me for years. If you really wanted to catch a nomadic terrorist, and you say you know where he is, would you give several days warning that you were going to invade to capture him?

Makes for good sound bytes, though, Osama, apparently, has always been one step ahead -- assuming he's even still alive, which is debatable.

Boxcar

[Tom]

I think people should empower themselves as much as possible. Do for yourself what you're capable of. Help those that can't help themselves, not those that can but won't.

OK, then in that case, please run for something so I can vote for you!
PLEEEEEZE!

;)