Are riders being actively investigated on day to day basis?

[Imriledup]

I was wondering if there is anyone who is carefully watching riders and investigating rides that seem inconsistent with giving the best effort to gain the highest placing possible?

Does anyone know if there is someone who is in charge of watching replays of every race, every day at every track?

Also, if a fan feels a jockey didn't give his or her best effort to get the highest placing possible, who do you complain to?

Also, one last thing, when you DO complain, is there any way to get satisfaction?

Who's minding the store?

[dutzman]

Check this out.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07182009/sports/horseracing/u_s__stewards_never_question_dubious_joc_179984.ht m

Australia doesn't mess around.....

[redshift1]

I was wondering if there is anyone who is carefully watching riders and investigating rides that seem inconsistent with giving the best effort to gain the highest placing possible?

Does anyone know if there is someone who is in charge of watching replays of every race, every day at every track?

Also, if a fan feels a jockey didn't give his or her best effort to get the highest placing possible, who do you complain to?

Also, one last thing, when you DO complain, is there any way to get satisfaction?

Who's minding the store?

Unusual betting patterns bring a lot of attention especially at the bigger tracks. I remember a harness driver/trainer who would routinely bring home winners off horrible PP's with huge drops in odds. This was in southern calif
and went on for 2-3 years without any suspensions or banning that I know of. Of course now with the internet those things are hard to hide.

[WinterTriangle]

I was wondering if there is anyone who is carefully watching riders and investigating rides that seem inconsistent with giving the best effort to gain the highest placing possible?

The article specifically mentions Big Brown, who we now know had a shoe loose. ?

The article also mentions bringing in a jock on a 20-1 horse for not giving it his "best energy".

My thinking is that no human being I know of can give *best effort* 365/7. I can't imagine, in the realm of human endeavor, that anyone who is not magical and god-like *could* give 100% effort on a consistent basis, day after day?

What they do is hard enough, IMHO.

Unless you are talking of something really seedy, like a jock who is part of some scheme to throw races? And does so repeatedly?

[andymays]

http://www.nctimes.com/sports/equestrian/racing/article_2dd77a9c-c7ac-5b8f-98ba-47f7d5ebab74.html

Excerpt:

Jockey Jordan Springer was suspended for 10 days by track stewards after her bizarre ride in Friday's fifth race.

Springer, 31, had a three-length lead in the stretch aboard 13-1 long shot Engine Sixty Nine but got caught at the wire when she failed to do anything with the horse in the stretch. Springer, who has 79 career wins, didn't hit the horse with the whip.

"The trainer told her not to hit the horse if she didn't have to," track steward Tom Ward said. "Obviously, the horse was very tired, but she thought she had enough horse.
"She was very apologetic."

Springer wasn't available for comment on Saturday, but said Friday that she had "messed up." Springer will be suspended for the final four days of the Del Mar meet, beginning Sept. 5, and the first six days of the Oak Tree meet at Santa Anita, beginning Sept. 30.

Springer was suspended for violating California Horse Racing Board Rule 1884 (unsatisfactory ride).

"It in all likelihood cost her the win," Ward said of Springer's lack of action in the stretch.

Ward said 10-day suspensions don't happen often on the Southern California circuit, but that this case warranted it.

[kenwoodallpromos]

If any jockey gives a suspicious ride, the clerk of the scale should give them a 3x5 card pre-printed with the date and race #, and the jockey could fill out their name and the post position of the horse, and give and explaination of the ride. It took me 1 minute to think of that, but track officials have no clue how to eliminate suspicion; Just another in the secretive racing process, like the 7 jockeys banned from tracks; no reasonable explaination was ever given. Racing again needs to do the simple things it takes to stop shooting itself in the foot! There is a 1-way view by racing insiders, they cannot see beyong their own nose and office, and as long as that continues racing will stay a minor sport and a minor gaming venue.

[Hanover1]

I was wondering if there is anyone who is carefully watching riders and investigating rides that seem inconsistent with giving the best effort to gain the highest placing possible?

Does anyone know if there is someone who is in charge of watching replays of every race, every day at every track?

Also, if a fan feels a jockey didn't give his or her best effort to get the highest placing possible, who do you complain to?

Also, one last thing, when you DO complain, is there any way to get satisfaction?

Who's minding the store?
A question with valid concerns....State Stewards sole job is to pick apart every race and evaluate the performance of every mount, not just infractions, but stiff jobs as well i.e. not urging horse to improve position ect....they often question beaten favorites, but its not getting the press or attention the fouls get, as they are more obvious. If you as a bettor feel that the product has been tampered with, these are the guys to address your concerns to.

[Hanover1]

http://www.nctimes.com/sports/equestrian/racing/article_2dd77a9c-c7ac-5b8f-98ba-47f7d5ebab74.html

Excerpt:

Jockey Jordan Springer was suspended for 10 days by track stewards after her bizarre ride in Friday's fifth race.

Springer, 31, had a three-length lead in the stretch aboard 13-1 long shot Engine Sixty Nine but got caught at the wire when she failed to do anything with the horse in the stretch. Springer, who has 79 career wins, didn't hit the horse with the whip.

"The trainer told her not to hit the horse if she didn't have to," track steward Tom Ward said. "Obviously, the horse was very tired, but she thought she had enough horse.
"She was very apologetic."

Springer wasn't available for comment on Saturday, but said Friday that she had "messed up." Springer will be suspended for the final four days of the Del Mar meet, beginning Sept. 5, and the first six days of the Oak Tree meet at Santa Anita, beginning Sept. 30.

Springer was suspended for violating California Horse Racing Board Rule 1884 (unsatisfactory ride).

"It in all likelihood cost her the win," Ward said of Springer's lack of action in the stretch.

Ward said 10-day suspensions don't happen often on the Southern California circuit, but that this case warranted it.
Your post here is a clear example of the policing that does go on. It should satisfy the author of this thread. Stewards know exactly what to look for, as many are ex trainers, ect...just as a trainer knows what he sees in the morning, stewards know what they see at post time.

[Imriledup]

http://www.nctimes.com/sports/equestrian/racing/article_2dd77a9c-c7ac-5b8f-98ba-47f7d5ebab74.html

Excerpt:

Jockey Jordan Springer was suspended for 10 days by track stewards after her bizarre ride in Friday's fifth race.

Springer, 31, had a three-length lead in the stretch aboard 13-1 long shot Engine Sixty Nine but got caught at the wire when she failed to do anything with the horse in the stretch. Springer, who has 79 career wins, didn't hit the horse with the whip.

"The trainer told her not to hit the horse if she didn't have to," track steward Tom Ward said. "Obviously, the horse was very tired, but she thought she had enough horse.
"She was very apologetic."

Springer wasn't available for comment on Saturday, but said Friday that she had "messed up." Springer will be suspended for the final four days of the Del Mar meet, beginning Sept. 5, and the first six days of the Oak Tree meet at Santa Anita, beginning Sept. 30.

Springer was suspended for violating California Horse Racing Board Rule 1884 (unsatisfactory ride).

"It in all likelihood cost her the win," Ward said of Springer's lack of action in the stretch.

Ward said 10-day suspensions don't happen often on the Southern California circuit, but that this case warranted it.

A 10 day suspension for this particular rider means she'll miss one 50-1 shot in that time that wasn't going to win anyway. This rider seldom, if ever, gets a mount, so this suspension isn't likely to cost her much money. I'm sure her bonehead ride cost at least one big bettor many thousands of dollars that he or she can't get back. I think this rider should be fined 10 grand instead of getting 10 days. What's 10 days to Springer, she rides one race every 10 days, its not like she's getting punished at all.

[andymays]

A 10 day suspension for this particular rider means she'll miss one 50-1 shot in that time that wasn't going to win anyway. This rider seldom, if ever, gets a mount, so this suspension isn't likely to cost her much money. I'm sure her bonehead ride cost at least one big bettor many thousands of dollars that he or she can't get back. I think this rider should be fined 10 grand instead of getting 10 days. What's 10 days to Springer, she rides one race every 10 days, its not like she's getting punished at all.


I know it looked really bad but given that the Trainer told her not to hit the horse if she didn't have to, and given that the new whips really only make noise and the horse can barely feel the whip, I'm not sure she wouldn't have got caught anyway. I'm sure that opinion is in the overwhelming minority. I've seen much worse rides that nothing was done about.

Having said all that I hate to think of the names I would have been calling her if I had the horse to win.

[Imriledup]

I know it looked really bad but given that the Trainer told her not to hit the horse if she didn't have to, and given that the new whips really only make noise and the horse can barely feel the whip, I'm not sure she wouldn't have got caught anyway. I'm sure that opinion is in the overwhelming minority. I've seen much worse rides that nothing was done about.

Having said all that I hate to think of the names I would have been calling her if I had the horse to win.

I think that if a horse isn't going to be hit, the rider shouldn't carry a whip and it should be announced to the public that "so and so carrys no whip". With her carrying the whip and not using it, this misleads the public.

This is a factor into anyone's handicapping. If you know in advance she has no whip or isn't going to use it, you can adjust accordingly with your handicap and get to know, in advance, this horse won't be hit.

[rwwupl]

I was wondering if there is anyone who is carefully watching riders and investigating rides that seem inconsistent with giving the best effort to gain the highest placing possible?

Does anyone know if there is someone who is in charge of watching replays of every race, every day at every track?

Also, if a fan feels a jockey didn't give his or her best effort to get the highest placing possible, who do you complain to?

Also, one last thing, when you DO complain, is there any way to get satisfaction?

Who's minding the store?

------------------------------------------------------------------
NOT OFTEN ENOUGH.!!

I WONDER TOO!!

[andymays]

I think that if a horse isn't going to be hit, the rider shouldn't carry a whip and it should be announced to the public that "so and so carrys no whip". With her carrying the whip and not using it, this misleads the public.

This is a factor into anyone's handicapping. If you know in advance she has no whip or isn't going to use it, you can adjust accordingly with your handicap and get to know, in advance, this horse won't be hit.

:ThmbUp:



http://blog.winningponies.com/2008/...hurchill-downs/

Excerpt:

Kent Desormeaux: “I’ve ridden many horses that would never have been a race horse without a riding crop. Some of them need encouragement, and the ProCush ain’t much encouragement. … I can use it on my hand, as hard as I want, and it doesn’t get my attention, even.”

Bill Troilo: “Hate ‘em; it’s like hitting a horse with a fly swatter. You hit a horse with it, and you don’t get any reaction.”

[rwwupl]

Here is the rule---


Rule No. Rule Title
1692 Requirements for Horse, Trainer and Jockey.
Rule Text Each horse starting in a race must be qualified for that race, ready to run, in physical condition to exert its best effort, and entered with the intention to win. Each trainer having the care or custody of such horse warrants it is fit to participate when brough to the paddock. Such trainers shall be present at the paddock to supervise the saddling of the horse and shall give instructions to assure the best performace of the horse. instruct, induce or otherwise solicit any jockey or trainer to ride or perfoJockeys going to the post in any race shall race their mount to win, shall give their best efforts in the race to their mount and the public, and shall ride their mount out until the finish line is passed. No person shall, or attempt to, rm in a manner contrary to this rule. NOTE: Authority cited: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. Amendment filed 7-23-97; effective 8-22-97.

[Imriledup]

Here is the rule---


Rule No. Rule Title
1692 Requirements for Horse, Trainer and Jockey.
Rule Text Each horse starting in a race must be qualified for that race, ready to run, in physical condition to exert its best effort, and entered with the intention to win. Each trainer having the care or custody of such horse warrants it is fit to participate when brough to the paddock. Such trainers shall be present at the paddock to supervise the saddling of the horse and shall give instructions to assure the best performace of the horse. instruct, induce or otherwise solicit any jockey or trainer to ride or perfoJockeys going to the post in any race shall race their mount to win, shall give their best efforts in the race to their mount and the public, and shall ride their mount out until the finish line is passed. No person shall, or attempt to, rm in a manner contrary to this rule. NOTE: Authority cited: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. Amendment filed 7-23-97; effective 8-22-97.

"entered with the intention to win"

We know there are a LOT of trainers who 'give them one' with their first time starters. They are not trained to win, are not ridden to win and most times, the jock will just wrap one up early.

When trainers say their horse may 'need a race' aren't they 'technically' supposed to have trained that horse to win first time back off the layoff? This rule is bent obviously and not enforced. Horses who 'need' the race ought to have their trainers punished for not having that horse ready to win TODAY.

In Harness racing, they force horse owners to race in qualifying races against other horses. The reason they do this is to show the public that these horses are fit and ready to win today. In Thoroughbreds, its just not enforced and owners are allowed to send out a horse who needs a race and just have him go around the track.

[phatbastard]

i think it's comical that KD offered an opinion...how many exactas , tris or supers have you missed by his lack of effort on horses that clearly couldn't win?

[Robert Goren]

watch almost any race and you will find horses not being pushed by their jockeys. The most common thing is the front runner who has been passed. The jockey seldom whips this horse to hang on for show or fourth place.

[GameTheory]

Was this EVER enforced? Decades ago? In the 30's, maybe? The idea that they are all out there trying with their best effort is so alien to me (who got into the game in the early 90's) that this type of thing has never upset me -- just goes with the territory. Also, because I have always enjoyed trainer angles and trying to figure out when they are going to send him is part of the fun. The fact that they aren't all trying to win actually makes the game more interesting for me, although when they are in a position to win (or place or show) and they inexplicably let themselves lose, that is disconcerting...

[46zilzal]

watch almost any race and you will find horses not being pushed by their jockeys. The most common thing is the front runner who has been passed. The jockey seldom whips this horse to hang on for show or fourth place.
Riders can tell by secondary motion when a horse is done, and the good ones, don't punish them. THAT is what you are seeing no matter what you want to "read into it."

If they are TRULY not continuing with a mount, they hear about it through their pocket books in FINES

[andymays]

Riders can tell by secondary motion when a horse is done, and the good ones, don't punish them. THAT is what you are seeing no matter what you want to "read into it."

If they are TRULY not continuing with a mount, they hear about it through their pocket books in FINES


See post #68 in the Curious Ride in GG's 5th today thread!

[Hanover1]

"entered with the intention to win"

We know there are a LOT of trainers who 'give them one' with their first time starters. They are not trained to win, are not ridden to win and most times, the jock will just wrap one up early.

When trainers say their horse may 'need a race' aren't they 'technically' supposed to have trained that horse to win first time back off the layoff? This rule is bent obviously and not enforced. Horses who 'need' the race ought to have their trainers punished for not having that horse ready to win TODAY.

In Harness racing, they force horse owners to race in qualifying races against other horses. The reason they do this is to show the public that these horses are fit and ready to win today. In Thoroughbreds, its just not enforced and owners are allowed to send out a horse who needs a race and just have him go around the track.
With the trots, its about beating a certain time to qualify, lame, ready to win or not. The very nature of a horse, trots included, suggest that first time starters who win are a precocious lot, and not the norm. Its common knowledge. Cant punish a trainer for starting a horse that simply, by its very nature, is not ready to win. Some of them require the mental repetition that comes with running in a bunch, to get game enough to be leader of the pack. Even proper placement of said horse in competition requires that racetime conditions be in place, not once, but several times in order for said horse to be at peak condition, and this includes having the desire to win as well as the physical ability. Only racing can provide that, not morning works in bunches that only go in pieces, and slower. So, yes we are dealing with a contradiction of sorts, but to what consequence? Even if every horse WAS racing to win, there can only be one winner each dash. (except dead heat of course). What you propose makes sense, but the nature of the horse makes this rule something of a comforting measure to the bettors, rather than the reality of training and racing horses.

[Imriledup]

With the trots, its about beating a certain time to qualify, lame, ready to win or not. The very nature of a horse, trots included, suggest that first time starters who win are a precocious lot, and not the norm. Its common knowledge. Cant punish a trainer for starting a horse that simply, by its very nature, is not ready to win. Some of them require the mental repetition that comes with running in a bunch, to get game enough to be leader of the pack. Even proper placement of said horse in competition requires that racetime conditions be in place, not once, but several times in order for said horse to be at peak condition, and this includes having the desire to win as well as the physical ability. Only racing can provide that, not morning works in bunches that only go in pieces, and slower. So, yes we are dealing with a contradiction of sorts, but to what consequence? Even if every horse WAS racing to win, there can only be one winner each dash. (except dead heat of course). What you propose makes sense, but the nature of the horse makes this rule something of a comforting measure to the bettors, rather than the reality of training and racing horses.

Good points, you are 100% correct.

I guess its just a matter of knowing this as a horseplayer that not every trainer and jockey is trying their best to win every race.

[BUD]

I was thinking about this-Yes they should be under a microscope daily-

OK In my job there is a Dept. and that Dept job is to watch and scrutinize the other Officers-

Now to dealers in casinos they have more cameras on them than Jessica Simpson--
So I hope so---Or the majority is sunk

[46zilzal]

Ever sit with the stewards? They have good radar and actually know what is going on and let the laggards know about it quickly too.

I believe they would be less apt to comment if a horse missed 3rd rather than one that was running easily on top and just stopped without any attempt at coaxing it (akin to that Irish rider, Fallon, who was under investigation on the All weather course in England). He has not been too prominent there since has he?