Yeah Rachel needs to beat Quality Road

[depalma113]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What are you doubters going to come up with next?

She's six lengths better than the Travers winner.

[FenceBored]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What are you doubters going to come up with next?

She's six lengths better than the Travers winner.

My first two guesses are Vineyard Haven and Careless Jewel.

[kenwoodallpromos]

What is RA's mud record?

[ryesteve]

My first two guesses are Vineyard Haven and Careless Jewel.I was gonna guess Music Note :D

[Java Gold@TFT]

What is RA's mud record?
Anyone who saw the Haskell would know for sure. :D

[ezrabrooks]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What are you doubters going to come up with next?

She's six lengths better than the Travers winner.

Not at the Travers distance... Do you really think she would have beat SB today?

Ez

[DanG]

Not at the Travers distance... Do you really think she would have beat SB today?

Ez

By a pole.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Not at the Travers distance... Do you really think she would have beat SB today?

Ez
What is the big deal about 10F? By my count quality 3yo's have 4 chances to race 10F on dirt - The Ky Derby, The Travers, The JCGC and the BC Classic when it is held on the appropriate surface. How many more on dirt am I missing? She won at 9.5F but that's not good enough. Summer Bird got the exact same trip on the exact kind of track that he had in the Haskell. The only difference was that Rachel's butt wasn't 6 lengths in front of him.

[jonnielu]

What is the big deal about 10F? By my count quality 3yo's have 4 chances to race 10F on dirt - The Ky Derby, The Travers, The JCGC and the BC Classic when it is held on the appropriate surface. How many more on dirt am I missing? She won at 9.5F but that's not good enough. Summer Bird got the exact same trip on the exact kind of track that he had in the Haskell. The only difference was that Rachel's butt wasn't 6 lengths in front of him.

And, if Rachel had been in the Travers, she'd be looking at SB's butt. That is why she was missing today and everyday when the distance is 10f.

jdl

[tucker6]

And, if Rachel had been in the Travers, she'd be looking at SB's butt. That is why she was missing today and everyday when the distance is 10f.

jdl
You don't even believe what you just posted. Why try to instigate a fight on the board when you know what you wrote is baloney.

[PaceAdvantage]

By a pole.Agree.

[ghostyapper]

Well I knew this would come, rachel "would have won the travers" just like she would have won the belmont. The fact is she didn't. Just because she beat summer bird by 6 in the haskell means nothing. It was his first race since the belmont (check out curlin's haskell) and it was only 9 furlongs.

By the way how did the great kensai do today the horse that supposedly was good enough to win and keep rachel out of the race?

Guess we won't hear about him again from the rachel crowd. What will they use as an excuse the next time she ducks a 10 furlong race?

[jonnielu]

You don't even believe what you just posted. Why try to instigate a fight on the board when you know what you wrote is baloney.

You want to take a run on telling me what I believe? All we have to do is wait for Rachel to run against males at 10F, when she retires first, you can tell me what I believe.

jdl

[Tom]

I'm sure you believe it, that is what is so funny.:lol:

[ryesteve]

You don't even believe what you just posted.Actually, I'm sure he does... and it's probably among the least outlandish things he believes...

[CincyHorseplayer]

Well I knew this would come, rachel "would have won the travers" just like she would have won the belmont. The fact is she didn't. Just because she beat summer bird by 6 in the haskell means nothing. It was his first race since the belmont (check out curlin's haskell) and it was only 9 furlongs.

By the way how did the great kensai do today the horse that supposedly was good enough to win and keep rachel out of the race?

Guess we won't hear about him again from the rachel crowd. What will they use as an excuse the next time she ducks a 10 furlong race?


RA would have to run upside your head for you to give her some credit wouldn't she??You've been hating this horse since June and you still can't come up with much.This horse as a 3yo and female has accomplished tons.And there you sit mouth ablazing with a rage that suggests lunacy.Drink a beer or leave the house or something before you implode:lol:

[CincyHorseplayer]

You want to take a run on telling me what I believe? All we have to do is wait for Rachel to run against males at 10F, when she retires first, you can tell me what I believe.

jdl

You believe the universe was created by the Easter Bunny and the inside of the earth is the contents of a Cadbury egg.

I'm close aren't I:cool:

[CBedo]

Agree.I second the motion.

[Hanover1]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What are you doubters going to come up with next?

She's six lengths better than the Travers winner.
QR was short, and everyone, including Pletcher knew it. He comes out of it fine, and its off to the windows and down the ol Quality Road for me. He reaches Florida Derby form on a fast track, and Rachel will have all she wants. They dont want no part of that colt when/if he peaks again. How the feet hold up is key-may opt for dashes rather than route because of that situation alone. Horse has tactical speed just like the filly does. Was just a start or so short of peak form today. Ther are exceptions to every rule in racing as was noted during commentary today, but the norm was proven to be true in regards to this colt today-short..........Jackson will duck this colt, as he did today, and shes a fine filly. Getting weight against the older horses out there today is a gift except perhaps Gio Ponzi, did she hook him???

[Hanover1]

RA would have to run upside your head for you to give her some credit wouldn't she??You've been hating this horse since June and you still can't come up with much.This horse as a 3yo and female has accomplished tons.And there you sit mouth ablazing with a rage that suggests lunacy.Drink a beer or leave the house or something before you implode:lol:
Dissin potential HOY is kinda silly, is it not?? Wonder what comments his kind are going to post when she IS voted HOY??

[ghostyapper]

RA would have to run upside your head for you to give her some credit wouldn't she??You've been hating this horse since June and you still can't come up with much.This horse as a 3yo and female has accomplished tons.And there you sit mouth ablazing with a rage that suggests lunacy.Drink a beer or leave the house or something before you implode:lol:

All I've been saying since june was that she is vulnerable at 10 furlongs and her connections would duck any race at 10f. The only issue I have is with people who like to claim she "would have" won any 10 furlong race after it is run like today.

[slewis]

All I've been saying since june was that she is vulnerable at 10 furlongs and her connections would duck any race at 10f. The only issue I have is with people who like to claim she "would have" won any 10 furlong race after it is run like today.

Ghosty,

I agree she's not AS effective at 10F then 9F... but dont dare say they ducked here.
This was a question of time between races. Ive posted that Rachel is not the most physically imposing filly Ive ever seen and Asmussen's biggest issue (my opinion) will be to keep weight on her and fresh when she runs.
Spacing races is VERY important. This is a Filly not a colt, and she's run hard.
Root hard against if that's your pleasure, but give her respect, she's earned it.

Dont doubt for one second that she's a machine and at 9F she wins by 5 or 6 and at 10F by 2 or 3 (like in the Preakness).

[WinterTriangle]

Was anybody *really* excited about the pickins?

these weren't Curlins, Afleet Alexes, Native Dancers, Easy Goers or Point Givens. Or even.... Big Browns.

How many G1s did these have under their belts in comparison?

And yeah, Rachel would have decimated this field. and I'm not known to be a rachel-touter.

[Hanover1]

Was anybody *really* excited about the pickins?

these weren't Curlins, Afleet Alexes, Native Dancers, Easy Goers or Point Givens. Or even.... Big Browns.

How many G1s did these have under their belts in comparison?

And yeah, Rachel would have decimated this field. and I'm not known to be a rachel-touter.
I been blowin wind all along about an average crop she hooks every trip. However I stand by my statement about QR. He gets tight, she wont want any......she is a carefully campaigned filly, not taking all comers to be sure. I feel 10F is not a problem for her next year if she is allowed a winter break to mature, and is brought back. Remember, they thought Big Red couldnt get the distance, and the rest is history..........she is a stone freak. Big Red got to 3/4 in .09 and a tick goin 1-1/2m and kept strokin-I see her in same situation-can run all day with right set-up. Im takin all bets on HOY for her.

[tucker6]

Actually, I'm sure he does... and it's probably among the least outlandish things he believes...
you're probably right.

[PaceAdvantage]

she is a carefully campaigned filly, not taking all comers to be sure.An absolutely mind blowing statement for sure...

Are you even living on the same planet as me?

[kenwoodallpromos]

An absolutely mind blowing statement for sure...

Are you even living on the same planet as me?
How about RA leaving the sloppy East Coast and facing Miss Z at Fairplex?

[depalma113]

QR was short, and everyone, including Pletcher knew it. He comes out of it fine, and its off to the windows and down the ol Quality Road for me. He reaches Florida Derby form on a fast track, and Rachel will have all she wants. They dont want no part of that colt when/if he peaks again. How the feet hold up is key-may opt for dashes rather than route because of that situation alone. Horse has tactical speed just like the filly does. Was just a start or so short of peak form today. Ther are exceptions to every rule in racing as was noted during commentary today, but the norm was proven to be true in regards to this colt today-short..........Jackson will duck this colt, as he did today, and shes a fine filly. Getting weight against the older horses out there today is a gift except perhaps Gio Ponzi, did she hook him???

The horse was short the moment he stepped out of the gate.

The answer you are looking for is he is a one turn miler who can get a mile and an eighth around two turns against the right inferior company, and yes a very inexperienced Dunkirk was inferior company.

Faulty timers and concrete surfaces make a horse look much faster than he really is.

Gio Ponti is a turf horse who didn't look like much on poly in the Big Cap. Why would you even want to see him get slaughtered on dirt? If you are making some sort of case that Rachel has to run on turf, than desperation is sinking in.

[WinterTriangle]

If you are making some sort of case that Rachel has to run on turf, than desperation is sinking in.

Sort of like you tossing off Quality Road, who lost a good portion of his development time to an injury, and just came back on the racing scene, as some kind of talentless hack?

[knine]

Agree..

[depalma113]

Sort of like you tossing off Quality Road, who lost a good portion of his development time to an injury, and just came back on the racing scene, as some kind of talentless hack?

No, I call them exactly as I see them. He is nothing more than another Discreet Cat. Very good up to a mile, but not the best 3 year-old colt that people claimed him to be and certainly not a horse that the Rachel camp should fear at any distance.

[knine]

An absolutely mind blowing statement for sure...

Are you even living on the same planet as me?
If you think Zenyatta's campaign has been carefully managed then the same goes for RA..Asmussen as well as Sherifs, they have both selected there races carefully,that being said it still doesnt take away from there accomplishments

[cj]

If you think Zenyatta's campaign has been carefully managed then the same goes for RA..Asmussen as well as Sherifs, they have both selected there races carefully,that being said it still doesnt take away from there accomplishments

True, but one is taking on the best around, the other a bunch of glorified rubber track claimers.

[Hanover1]

An absolutely mind blowing statement for sure...

Are you even living on the same planet as me?
Its you again....My opinion is echoed by many here, and I do believe that this filly will have her shot at proving naysayers wrong at some point....back off the personal attacks. Go administer something.........

[PaceAdvantage]

Go administer something.........Are you sure you want that?

[cj]

Are you sure you want that?

:lol:

[Tom Barrister]

We'll find out who's the best if and when Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta ever get entered against each other and/or against males in the Classic. Seeing either would require that their respective connections forget about the money and actually give to the industry and its fans.

As usual, it's all about the money, regardless of what the connections may say. As far as I'm concerned, Rachel Alexandra was entered in the Preakness because the connections saw an easy payday against a mediocre field, with an impressive addition to the filly's resume. As far as I'm concerned, the two connections will find a way to have their horses duck each other for the remainder of the year. If money is the key force (and it always seems to be so), that makes sense. If they're in the same race, at least one will lose (barring a dead heat). The loser's foals won't command as much money in the upcoming years, something that the connections are well-aware of.

[cj]

I don't see anything wrong with Jackson not running Rachel Alexandra on fake turf. Why should he? How is seeing a horse run on a surface that won't be around in a few years a good thing for the fans?

[Tom]

Maybe he should hook her up to a buggy and take on the trotters, just to prove she can beat all comers! :D

[bisket]

The horse was short the moment he stepped out of the gate.

The answer you are looking for is he is a one turn miler who can get a mile and an eighth around two turns against the right inferior company, and yes a very inexperienced Dunkirk was inferior company.

Faulty timers and concrete surfaces make a horse look much faster than he really is.

Gio Ponti is a turf horse who didn't look like much on poly in the Big Cap. Why would you even want to see him get slaughtered on dirt? If you are making some sort of case that Rachel has to run on turf, than desperation is sinking in.
the foutain of youth wasn't run on a speed favoring surface. early in the meet gulfsteam was a much different surface than what quality raced on in fla derby. if you watched the foy quality stuck with this ones for phil for the first 6 furs and still didn't look like he was stopping after that one mile ditance. he's legit. i can't figure why people think its a mark against a horse for winning a 1 turn mile. yes the time is always better for the 1 turn mile because the horse don't slow for that other turn, but it takes a little more energy to compete in a 1 turn mile. the horses run on their first lead longer for that 1st 6 furs than in a 2 turn race. this is more tiring on them prior to the stretch run.

[cj]

the foutain of youth wasn't run on a speed favoring surface. early in the meet gulfsteam was a much different surface than what quality raced on in fla derby. if you watched the foy quality stuck with this ones for phil for the first 6 furs and still didn't look like he was stopping after that one mile ditance. he's legit. i can't figure why people think its a mark against a horse for winning a 1 turn mile. yes the time is always better for the 1 turn mile because the horse don't slow for that other turn, but it takes a little more energy to compete in a 1 turn mile. the horses run on their first lead longer for that 1st 6 furs than in a 2 turn race. this is more tiring on them prior to the stretch run.

Horses do not expend more energy running a one turn mile. A two turn mile takes longer, which means they expend more energy in those.

[bisket]

horses tire much more running on the same lead for long periods. think of it like this. your distance is 100 yards. you hop on one leg for 75 yards than switch to the other for 25 yards. thats a 1 turn mile. you hop on leg for 25 yards than change to another for 50 yards than hop on another leg for the last 25 yards. thats a two turn mile. i'd say whatever leg you hopped on for the first 75 yards would tire you more significantly, than the 3/5's of a second you saved for that second turn. this would be why i got the odds i did in the fla derby :ThmbUp: on quality.

[WinterTriangle]

i can't figure why people think its a mark against a horse for winning a 1 turn mile.

Not everyone does. It seems to make even less sense knowing that our breeding program isn't geared to classic distance / stamina horses.

[pktruckdriver]

Maybe he should hook her up to a buggy and take on the trotters, just to prove she can beat all comers! :D


:lol: :lol: :lol:


Quality Who, RA has done enough for me, but will still do more for us....



patrick

[Marlin]

Horses do not expend more energy running a one turn mile. A two turn mile takes longer, which means they expend more energy in those.In addition horses expend more energy when in a turn versus when straight. This statement that one turn requires more energy seems ludicrous to me. Let me run straight versus turning everyday of the week. Maybe I won't have to give up the Marlboros.

[bisket]

In addition horses expend more energy when in a turn versus when straight. This statement that one turn requires more energy seems ludicrous to me. Let me run straight versus turning everyday of the week. Maybe I won't have to give up the Marlboros.
horses actually slow down for the turn. this is why when this same situation comes up again next year i'll get 4-1 instead of 2-1 next time also

[Marlin]

horses actually slow down for the turn. this is why when this same situation comes up again next year i'll get 4-1 instead of 2-1 next time alsoHorse do go slower on a turn because it is more difficult to turn then go straight. If you cash at 4-1 next time it will have nothing to do with this theory. However 4-1 is 4-1 so congratulations.

[bisket]

Horse do go slower on a turn because it is more difficult to turn then go straight. If you cash at 4-1 next time it will have nothing to do with this theory. However 4-1 is 4-1 so congratulations.
its fact

[Imriledup]

I think the funniest thing in the world is that there are actually people who are finding 'things' about Rachel to criticize her.

There is absolutely NOTHING that Rachel has done that you can actually criticize. People love to throw around the 'she beat nothing' phrase, but in reality, she made her competition look silly. She made them all look so bad that it makes you THINK she's beating nothing.

Also, one of the things that i like to use as a rebuttal to the 'she beat nothing' people is that in the history of horse racing, there are very few animals who have won multiple grade 1 races by 20 lengths or more. You would probably have to search long and hard to find ANYONE who has accomplished this feat.

Another amazing feat is that she won a Grade 1 race vs Males by 6 lengths. You would have to search long and hard to find any filly or mare who beat males by 5 lengths or more in a Grade 1 race. And, to add insult to injury, the horse she beat by 6 lengths in a Grade 1 race just won one of America's most important races, also a grade 1, by open lengths.

Its seriously time to stop criticizing Rachel or trying to make stuff up to try and diminsh what she's done and what she might do. She's done enough to put her up there with the all time great horses we have ever seen in America. Its time to really enjoy this horse while she's still around and stop finding ways to not like her or finding ways to try and shoot holes in her resume.

Its really embarrassing and makes you look like you really don't know this game all that well.

[Marlin]

I think the funniest thing in the world is that there are actually people who are finding 'things' about Zenyatta to criticize her.

There is absolutely NOTHING that Zenyatta has done that you can actually criticize. People love to throw around the 'she beat nothing' phrase, but in reality, she made her competition look silly. She made them all look so bad that it makes you THINK she's beating nothing.

Also, one of the things that i like to use as a rebuttal to the 'she beat nothing' people is that in the history of horse racing, there are very few animals who have won 6 consecutive G1 races. You would probably have to search long and hard to find ANYONE who has accomplished this feat.

Another amazing feat is that she won 12 races in a row without losing. You would have to search long and hard to find any filly or mare who went 12 for 12. (except Personal Ensign):)

Its seriously time to stop criticizing Zenyatta or trying to make stuff up to try and diminsh what she's done and what she might do. She's done enough to put her up there with the all time great horses we have ever seen in America. Its time to really enjoy this horse while she's still around and stop finding ways to not like her or finding ways to try and shoot holes in her resume.

Its really embarrassing and makes you look like you really don't know this game all that well.

My point is that this is a great time to be a fan. Awesome!!!

[Cratos]

Rachel Alexandra is one of the quickest (not the fastest) racehorses I have ever seen and that includes the likes of Seattle Slew, Ruffian, Dr. Fager, and Ghostzapper to name a few. Additionally, her Mother Goose and Haskell wins should be ranked with some of the best performances by a Grade 1 racehorse of either gender in the last 25 years.

However I join the minority on the forum in saying that 10 panels might be her Achilles heel because of her breeding and the performance of her sire, Medaglia d’Oro who was an absolute terror at 9 panels (winning 5 of 6 and coming in 2nd by a head in his only loss at 9 panels).

Also I am concerned that neither Rachel nor Zenyetta connections would have worked into the racing schedules of their fillies. one of the following three big races at the Spa this year for fillies or mares: the Go For Wand, the Alabama, and the Personal Ensign. I understand the attractiveness of the $1.25M Haskell purse, but I also understand that both the Alabama and the Personal Ensign was run at 10 panels and neither of these two very good fillies have a winning history at that distance

[Tom Barrister]

I would imagine that more energy is expended early in a one-turn mile than early in a two-turn race. Perhaps that's what bisket meant.

[FenceBored]

I think the funniest thing in the world is that there are actually people who are finding 'things' about Zenyatta to criticize her.

There is absolutely NOTHING that Zenyatta has done that you can actually criticize. People love to throw around the 'she beat nothing' phrase, but in reality, she made her competition look silly. She made them all look so bad that it makes you THINK she's beating nothing.

Also, one of the things that i like to use as a rebuttal to the 'she beat nothing' people is that in the history of horse racing, there are very few animals who have won 6 consecutive G1 races. You would probably have to search long and hard to find ANYONE who has accomplished this feat.

Another amazing feat is that she won 12 races in a row without losing. You would have to search long and hard to find any filly or mare who went 12 for 12. (except Personal Ensign)images/UBGX/E1.gif

Its seriously time to stop criticizing Zenyatta or trying to make stuff up to try and diminsh what she's done and what she might do. She's done enough to put her up there with the all time great horses we have ever seen in America. Its time to really enjoy this horse while she's still around and stop finding ways to not like her or finding ways to try and shoot holes in her resume.

Its really embarrassing and makes you look like you really don't know this game all that well.

My point is that this is a great time to be a fan. Awesome!!!

Zenyatta has not won, and will never win six straight G1s. She's been running a mix of G1s and G2s both last year and this. This year's Clement Hirsh marked only the second time she's won back to back G1 races. And since it's unlikely she'll be run 4 more times before her retirement, six straight G1s is out of the question. With a win in the Lady's Secret and a BC race she will have won 4 straight G1s tying her with Gio Ponti's and Rachel Alexandra's current streaks. And one or both of them may have added a race or two of their own by then.

As for having to search long and hard for a winner of 12 straight, two words for ya buddy: Peppers Pride. :)

[sandpit]

I think the funniest thing in the world is that there are actually people who are finding 'things' about Rachel to criticize her.

There is absolutely NOTHING that Rachel has done that you can actually criticize. People love to throw around the 'she beat nothing' phrase, but in reality, she made her competition look silly. She made them all look so bad that it makes you THINK she's beating nothing.

Also, one of the things that i like to use as a rebuttal to the 'she beat nothing' people is that in the history of horse racing, there are very few animals who have won multiple grade 1 races by 20 lengths or more. You would probably have to search long and hard to find ANYONE who has accomplished this feat.

Another amazing feat is that she won a Grade 1 race vs Males by 6 lengths. You would have to search long and hard to find any filly or mare who beat males by 5 lengths or more in a Grade 1 race. And, to add insult to injury, the horse she beat by 6 lengths in a Grade 1 race just won one of America's most important races, also a grade 1, by open lengths.

Its seriously time to stop criticizing Rachel or trying to make stuff up to try and diminsh what she's done and what she might do. She's done enough to put her up there with the all time great horses we have ever seen in America. Its time to really enjoy this horse while she's still around and stop finding ways to not like her or finding ways to try and shoot holes in her resume.

Its really embarrassing and makes you look like you really don't know this game all that well.

IMO, much of the criticism of Rachel is an indirect or veiled attack on the Jackson/Asmussen connections. With Jackson's $$$ giving him a huge and polarizing voice in the game, and Asmussen's lengthy rap sheet, many people simply do not like anything they get their hands on. Probably the same group that were always denigrating Curlin.
I wonder if RA was still in the hands of Hal Wiggins, would we still be hearing all the negativity?

[FenceBored]

IMO, much of the criticism of Rachel is an indirect or veiled attack on the Jackson/Asmussen connections. With Jackson's $$$ giving him a huge and polarizing voice in the game, and Asmussen's lengthy rap sheet, many people simply do not like anything they get their hands on. Probably the same group that were always denigrating Curlin.
I wonder if RA was still in the hands of Hal Wiggins, would we still be hearing all the negativity?

Well, for Wiggins to still be the trainer, either Dolphus Morrison would still be the voice of her owners, or Jess Jackson would have left her with Wiggins. If Morrison is the owner, you'd be hearing complaints about his views on fillies running with colts, cats and dogs living together, all that stuff. 'They're ducking the colts. Why can't they run her against the males, so we can see her face some REAL competitin. Yadda, yadda, yadda.' If Wiggins was training her for Jackson, then I really don't see there would be a difference in the complaints about her. Jackson still would have picked the spots he's picked and people would still be finding the same faults with those decisions.

[GaryG]

IMO, much of the criticism of Rachel is an indirect or veiled attack on the Jackson/Asmussen connections. With Jackson's $$$ giving him a huge and polarizing voice in the game, and Asmussen's lengthy rap sheet, many people simply do not like anything they get their hands on. Probably the same group that were always denigrating Curlin.
I wonder if RA was still in the hands of Hal Wiggins, would we still be hearing all the negativity?That is exactly right.....some of the criticisms border on ridiculous. Did someone say a one-turn mile is more stressful than two turns? MANY horses are successful around one turn but do not have the stamina to stay two turns. Whe she dusts them in them Woodward there will be more reasons she hasn't really done all that much. That kind of energy would be better spent learning this game. She is HOY....case closed.

[tucker6]

When was the last time a filly beat males in the same year in two G1's?? She may have two more attempts yet this year as well. She is easily HOY, with Gio Ponti taking second. Zenyatta may be no better than fourth after MTB in the vote getting.

[SoCalCircuit]

When was the last time a filly beat males in the same year in two G1's?? She may have two more attempts yet this year as well. She is easily HOY, with Gio Ponti taking second. Zenyatta may be no better than fourth after MTB in the vote getting.


I wouldnt necessarily say she wins it easily. Gio Ponti has quietly been putting together a very nice resume against much better competition (the turf males are actually decent this year, especially when compared to the 3 yo colts and fillies) If they do opt for the BCC, although doubtful, and win, I dont see how you can vote against that.

Im actually curious, in this were the case would the HOY voters lean towards rachel because her accomplishments were exceptionally great and out of the norm for a 3 yo filly, or for Gio Ponti because his accomplishments were greater overall, but nothing historically extraordinary?

Also, IMO, MTB is slowly but surely sliding down the list for HOY...

[bisket]

I would imagine that more energy is expended early in a one-turn mile than early in a two-turn race. Perhaps that's what bisket meant.
exactly and once your leg weary as anyone would know you can't recover from it until you stop and jog it off. i think handicappers who follow times religiously just think because the race is run faster its easier on the horse. its simply not true. physically one turns are more demanding on the horse. i just think by saying oh it was a 1 turn race he had it easier your giving a horse a mark against when you shouldn't. don't make that mistake

[Tom Barrister]

As for having to search long and hard for a winner of 12 straight, two words for ya buddy: Peppers Pride. :)

Here are four more words: Hallowed Dreams (16) and Silent Witness (17).

Hallowed Dreams won her first 16 races, and 25 of 30, and she set track records at Fair Grounds and Evangenline Downs. She won $740,144 in her career, and she only raced three times outside of Lousiana (all three at Lone Star), so she didn't face much stiff competition. She never raced longer than 6 furlongs.

Silent Witness, who spent most of his career in Hong Kong, also won 17 consecutive races. During his career, Silent Witness won the equivalent of about $8,000,000 USD, mostly in sprints.

Peppers Pride faced the toughest New Mexico breds in the world and won all 19 of her races, earing $1,066,085.

[tucker6]

I wouldnt necessarily say she wins it easily. Gio Ponti has quietly been putting together a very nice resume against much better competition (the turf males are actually decent this year, especially when compared to the 3 yo colts and fillies) If they do opt for the BCC, although doubtful, and win, I dont see how you can vote against that.

Im actually curious, in this were the case would the HOY voters lean towards rachel because her accomplishments were exceptionally great and out of the norm for a 3 yo filly, or for Gio Ponti because his accomplishments were greater overall, but nothing historically extraordinary?

Also, IMO, MTB is slowly but surely sliding down the list for HOY...
I agree that "easily" is too strong a word at this point in time. Your point about HOY voters is good. I would think that accomplishments that are out of the ordinary AND done with style would get rewarded moreso than a strong year that Gio Ponti has had.

MTB is sliding down the list, but tell me who has had the more memorable impact year on the sport, MTB or Zenyatta. I'm not asking who the better horse is, but who has had more impact. That also affects voting.

[SoCalCircuit]

MTB is sliding down the list, but tell me who has had the more memorable impact year on the sport, MTB or Zenyatta. I'm not asking who the better horse is, but who has had more impact. That also affects voting.


You're right on the count that MTB has definitely had a massive impact on the year of horse racing. My mindset was that the other bird may soon overshadow both MTB and Zenyatta if he keeps winning like he has

[cj]

You're right on the count that MTB has definitely had a massive impact on the year of horse racing. My mindset was that the other bird may soon overshadow both MTB and Zenyatta if he keeps winning like he has

Mine That Bird has won a single race this year. Though he did bring the sport some notoriety for precisely two weeks, he is pretty much forgotten now. Zenyatta is still in the limelight.

[Tom Barrister]

Mine That Bird has won a single race this year. Though he did bring the sport some notoriety for precisely two weeks, he is pretty much forgotten now. Zenyatta is still in the limelight.

Imagine the notoriety he'd have brought if he'd been able to win the Preakness as well (he was a hard-charging second). And the further notoriety if he'd also won the Belmont and the Triple Crown.

[SoCalCircuit]

Imagine the notoriety he'd have brought if he'd been able to win the Preakness as well (he was a hard-charging second). And the further notoriety if he'd also won the Belmont and the Triple Crown.


Yeah got to the gelding atleast some credit for hitting the board in all the crown races. Even though most of the horses he beat were either awful or injured, still an accomplishment worthy of atleast some recognition

[Hanover1]

exactly and once your leg weary as anyone would know you can't recover from it until you stop and jog it off. i think handicappers who follow times religiously just think because the race is run faster its easier on the horse. its simply not true. physically one turns are more demanding on the horse. i just think by saying oh it was a 1 turn race he had it easier your giving a horse a mark against when you shouldn't. don't make that mistake
Is it all not relative to each horse? Getting hung wide going into the first of 2 turns is a tough spot for some, and they opt to leave, expending energy to do so. Once making the top, pace is controlled, giving horse a breather, then its on to the 2nd turn, where he may, or may not be pressed into holding off charges. He still has to lean into the turn, expending more energy than traveling in a straight line. Some do all this effortlessly, and some struggle. My experience has shown that some are sharper on 2 turns due to better balance, and durability, rather that a straight line worker, regardless of speed, because the turns require extra effort to negotioate, regardless of pace. More weight is placed on the inside of the horse each time they turn, requiring extra effort to negotiate.

[bisket]

most of your more athletic horses have a much easier time with turns. i put quality into that category. curlin who was a big monster of a specimen had a little harder of a time with the turns. all i'm really trying to point out is: don't give a horse a strike against for winning a one turn mile as opposed to a 2 turn mile. most of your speed fig handicappers just automatically do this. its not a good habit to have.

[Hanover1]

most of your more athletic horses have a much easier time with turns. i put quality into that category. curlin who was a big monster of a specimen had a little harder of a time with the turns. all i'm really trying to point out is: don't give a horse a strike against for winning a one turn mile as opposed to a 2 turn mile. most of your speed fig handicappers just automatically do this. its not a good habit to have.
You have a valid point..Its a picture of why trainers do not rely on gambling to make a living, and gamblers dont rely on training to make a living. Trying to understand what the other side understands can be contradictory at times...lol

[sandpit]

When was the last time a filly beat males in the same year in two G1's?? She may have two more attempts yet this year as well. She is easily HOY, with Gio Ponti taking second. Zenyatta may be no better than fourth after MTB in the vote getting.

Though it won't have any bearing on American Horse of the Year, Goldikova did it both this year and last year. She is as good as any horse on the planet.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Though it won't have any bearing on American Horse of the Year, Goldikova did it both this year and last year. She is as good as any horse on the planet.
I pointed out in another thread that with Sea The Stars in the mix Goldikova won't even be Eurpopean HOY. It's just the way it is. Personal Ensign beat everything she faced including males in a G-I and a loose on the lead Derby winner on her favorite muddy track but still couldn't get HOY. It happens.

[tucker6]

Though it won't have any bearing on American Horse of the Year, Goldikova did it both this year and last year. She is as good as any horse on the planet.
I had forgotten about Goldikova. She's a great horse. Thanks for correcting me.

[depalma113]

Though it won't have any bearing on American Horse of the Year, Goldikova did it both this year and last year. She is as good as any horse on the planet.

Goldikova has only beaten males once this year.

[lamboguy]

Mine That Bird has won a single race this year. Though he did bring the sport some notoriety for precisely two weeks, he is pretty much forgotten now. Zenyatta is still in the limelight.no one seems to bring up ICON PROJECT, that filly is getting better with every race, she wouldn't exactly lay down if she was running against ZENYATTA or RACHEL

[sandpit]

Goldikova has only beaten males once this year.

My bad, you're right. I forgot the Prix Rothschild was restricted to females. I predict my statement will be correct before the year ends.

[cj]

no one seems to bring up ICON PROJECT, that filly is getting better with every race, she wouldn't exactly lay down if she was running against ZENYATTA or RACHEL

She has zero chance of beating RA in my opinion.

She was given a 114 Beyer for her romp Sunday, but I think that is totally bogus. I came up with a 104, I don't buy the split variant for the last two races for a second.

[Steve R]

She has zero chance of beating RA in my opinion.

She was given a 114 Beyer for her romp Sunday, but I think that is totally bogus. I came up with a 104, I don't buy the split variant for the last two races for a second.

I got something in the range of 108.

[slewis]

Regarding Icon Project, physically she's well below avg looking.

Although I have tremendous respect for Marty Wolfson, I seriously doubt she'll be able to duplicate that performance in her next race.
Next, and most importantly, I dont like the way she finished up.

A near term step up against competition like Rachel would be impossible.

Regarding her figure, that track was drying out and Im sure all the serious figure makers will agree, those tracks are hardest to get a good variant on.

Nevertheless, that race was impressive.

[joanied]

I beleive, as of now, Icon Project will be facing Zenyatta her next out...and that, IMO should be quiet interesting:)

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/September/01/LADIES-CLASSIC-ANALYSIS-Music-Note-Icon-Project-move-toward-Breeders-Cup.aspx

[Java Gold@TFT]

I beleive, as of now, Icon Project will be facing Zenyatta her next out...and that, IMO should be quiet interesting:)

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/September/01/LADIES-CLASSIC-ANALYSIS-Music-Note-Icon-Project-move-toward-Breeders-Cup.aspx
I think I read elsewhere that she might be pointed toward the Beldame before traveling to the world of synthetics. Zenyatta people can take adepe breath while waiting for the Lady's Secret.

[Pell Mell]

I guess we're all entitled to an opinion so here's mine.

I think Rachel is a fantastic horse and don't think the Z is in her class at all. However, I think after the Travers that SB is the best of the best especially at the classic distances of 1 1/4 and up.
He is a late bloomer who is just now coming into his own. Didn't have a race until March of this year and only 6 starts all told.
Has now developed the ability to stalk a fairly quick pace and has a huge kick.
Will not be defeated again this year and will win the BC.
Gets my vote for HOY.

[bisket]

I guess we're all entitled to an opinion so here's mine.

I think Rachel is a fantastic horse and don't think the Z is in her class at all. However, I think after the Travers that SB is the best of the best especially at the classic distances of 1 1/4 and up.
He is a late bloomer who is just now coming into his own. Didn't have a race until March of this year and only 6 starts all told.
Has now developed the ability to stalk a fairly quick pace and has a huge kick.
Will not be defeated again this year and will win the BC.
Gets my vote for HOY.
he's improved, but i'll have to see how he comes into the jcgc before making any statements like this

[GaryG]

I don't see him beating Rachel but Summer Bird is clearly the best 3yo male at this point. He is certainly peaking at the right time. Fine job by Tim Ice.