Any Thoughts on the Steve Crist Article..

[ryanxpress]

Crist wrote a article on the speech he made about the use of drugs in the game....im sure the majority have read it any thoughts?and did anyone on this forum write to him in his blog about the use of drugs in the game?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Are the marching orders of the TBred racing bluebloods to blame everything on the "Perception"?
It is racing's responsibility to determine the amount of a medication in the blood that is acceptable- not the bettors. CRB in 2007 warned to be casreful and maybe stretch the withdrawl times to make sure they are not in violation.
What does "Perception" have to do with snake venom, or Pletcher appealing to the NY state courts, or Cole Norman CO2ing 2 of Toby Kieth's horses in the same LA stakes race?
When overages are several different kinds of drugs, or multiple violations within a short time, it is not "Perception"; When horses run an extra furlong after a leg is dangling, it is not "Perception"; When Ca tests only 50% of all samples taken, it is not "Perception". The "Perception" is that bettors think that just because a "supertrainer" keeps winning titles year after year, or has many various violations at numerous tracks, or has too high a win %, or has scratches and breakdowns in excess of other trainers, then the trainer gets busted big time.
The idea that it is a sin to punish the owner or vet or horse justs ads to the CYA and excuses for cheating. The only punishment that will work is fines equal to the winner's share of purse win or lose, stalls denied and weight added to the entire barn; If these are done I do not want to see the trainer suspended because I want to see the look on his/her face!!
This also- cancel delays at some tracks are not perception, neither is no finish time except for the winner.

[Imriledup]

Are the marching orders of the TBred racing bluebloods to blame everything on the "Perception"?
It is racing's responsibility to determine the amount of a medication in the blood that is acceptable- not the bettors. CRB in 2007 warned to be casreful and maybe stretch the withdrawl times to make sure they are not in violation.
What does "Perception" have to do with snake venom, or Pletcher appealing to the NY state courts, or Cole Norman CO2ing 2 of Toby Kieth's horses in the same LA stakes race?
When overages are several different kinds of drugs, or multiple violations within a short time, it is not "Perception"; When horses run an extra furlong after a leg is dangling, it is not "Perception"; When Ca tests only 50% of all samples taken, it is not "Perception". The "Perception" is that bettors think that just because a "supertrainer" keeps winning titles year after year, or has many various violations at numerous tracks, or has too high a win %, or has scratches and breakdowns in excess of other trainers, then the trainer gets busted big time.
The idea that it is a sin to punish the owner or vet or horse justs ads to the CYA and excuses for cheating. The only punishment that will work is fines equal to the winner's share of purse win or lose, stalls denied and weight added to the entire barn; If these are done I do not want to see the trainer suspended because I want to see the look on his/her face!!
This also- cancel delays at some tracks are not perception, neither is no finish time except for the winner.

The horses and the owners need to be punished just as much as the trainer. This is why if someone messes up in the military EVERYONE has to drop and give the sargeant 20. Its a great deterrent.

[bobbyt62]

there has always been drugging in the game, based on histories i have read as well as many of the old racing periodicals and forms i have collected . many referred to man o war as the greatest hop head horse of all time. tom smith (seabiscuit) had plenty of problems, and that's back in the day when the drf only published those types of stories if they had already become well publicized. they held back a lot more. i can accept the drugging from the perspective of "that's how some people behave". what i can't accept is the punishment. what does biancone have to do to be barred permanently ? i could go on and on. it's not the crime...it's the recidivism with so little punishment.

[WinterTriangle]

there has always been drugging in the game, based on histories i have read as well as many of the old racing periodicals and forms i have collected . many referred to man o war as the greatest hop head horse of all time. tom smith (seabiscuit) had plenty of problems, and that's back in the day when the drf only published those types of stories if they had already become well publicized. they held back a lot more. i can accept the drugging from the perspective of "that's how some people behave". what i can't accept is the punishment.

You mean lack of punishment. At least the kind that would make it go away.

History is useful in telling us where we've *been*. It would be nice to think we have moved forward since then.

So....there's a *reason* why the wheels turn slowly. Because, if the desire to clean it up were there, it would go faster.

What we really have to address, therefore, is why the lack of motivation? Just making drugging wrong isn't enough.....we must find out the cause of the behavior and change that, too.

I think about this in small bites, like troubleshooting any problem in an organization. It pays to have people who understand small group dynamics, and what makes people do what they do and how "the group" encourages and / or discourages this. Small peer groups are very powerful and I've been doing a lot of reading on this phenomenon.
Based on that, I can only say that there is no desire on the part of the group to change things.

[bobbyt62]

wintertriangle, thanks for clarifying---yes, i meant LACK of punishment is what i can't stand.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The horses and the owners need to be punished just as much as the trainer. This is why if someone messes up in the military EVERYONE has to drop and give the sargeant 20. Its a great deterrent.
In previous threads I proposed for performance enhancement drugs: Fining the trainer the winner's share of whatever race the horse was entered in (remember I Want Revenge?); Adding 2 lbs to each of the trainer's horses (at the time the punishment starts is cool) for the next meets wherever the trainer or horses are, for each violation; And denial of 50% of office, boarding, and stall space for the next meets wherever the trainer or horses are. I will now add no use of bugs allowed!! If any owner wants out of loading the horse down and paying for stall space at an off-track site they can can the trainer.
Based on the ancient NTRA search of violations (I think 2004), this is 1/200th of Tbred runners.
Racing is lousy and lazy at conducting surveys and studies of injuries, drugs, jockey injuries, bettor demographics, general public "Perception"s, and reaching the general public with positive reasons to watch and/or bet TBreds.
Racing mentality is strictly hush and stay in-house. Then a Barbaro or RA story breaks and racing has no control of it.
____________________________________________
Perception and Reality are equal to the uneducated ears, and Perceptive Reality is less than equal to Reality!!

[kenwoodallpromos]

I "Binged" instead of Googled "Thoroughbred racing perception" and returned 31,300 hits!! "http://www.bing.com/search?q=thoroughbred+racing+perception&go=&form=QBLH&filt=all&qs=n"; I "binged" "Thoroughbred racing misperception" and got 431 hits "http://www.bing.com/search?q=thoroughbred+racing+misperception&go=&form=QBLH&filt=all&qs=n"!!
WOW! Quite a coincidence!LOL!! :lol:

[Bochall]

Steve did a great job soliciting input on his blog for the speech he gave to the JC. Problem is this: if his suggestions for reform of drug laws etc. aren't viewed as a PROFITABLE move by the tracks then it was all for naught. Nothing will happen. Racing is like boxing in that it has no single governing body. Imagine our original 13 colonies just doing whatever and not being UNITED. We'd be the States of America instead of the United States. A friend of mine who's new to racing has no concern about drugs. His concern is that too much racing muddles the picture. Too many 'elite' or graded races exist. How many Gr races existed last week for 3yr olds? Was it three? New fans who wanna see a Rachel v Zen matchup will never get and that's something I have a hard time explaining to them. Too many lucrative avenues exist so that an owner can duck a division rival all year long and still win Gr races and tons of cash (who cares about the Eclipse? Does a cash prize come with the trophy?). I say eliminate a large portion of Gr races and make these guys face each other on the track (not in the blogs!).