New Whips. Bad for the Bettor?-Good for the Horse?-What about Race Safety?

[andymays]

Interested in everyones opinion on the new whips. As a Traditionalist I don't like em. In the short time I've watched the new whips in use I think they are;

Bad for the Bettor! :ThmbDown:

I'm not sure they are better for the Horse because of Race Safety. :confused:

Because Horses don't always run straight in the stretch Jockey use the whips to keep a Horse running as straight as possible. I don't believe the new whips keep Horses as straight in the stretch as the old ones. Therefore Racing Safety is compromised. :ThmbDown:

I know many Horseplayers think that the whips are only to urge a Horse on but most Jockeys will tell you they are also part of Race Safety. Just from watching a limited number of races I believe certain Jockeys like Garret Gomez who have an aggressive riding style are going to have a tough time winning at a high percentage from now on. A Jockey like Bejerano with a more passive style will do as well or better. The new whips may help frontrunners and hinder closers but who knows?


http://blog.winningponies.com/2008/11/03/new-procush-whips-at-churchill-downs/

Excerpt:

Kent Desormeaux: “I’ve ridden many horses that would never have been a race horse without a riding crop. Some of them need encouragement, and the ProCush ain’t much encouragement. … I can use it on my hand, as hard as I want, and it doesn’t get my attention, even.”

Bill Troilo: “Hate ‘em; it’s like hitting a horse with a fly swatter. You hit a horse with it, and you don’t get any reaction.”

[fmolf]

Interested in everyones opinion on the new whips. As a Traditionalist I don't like em. In the short time I've watched the new whips in use I think they are;

Bad for the Bettor! :ThmbDown:

I'm not sure they are better for the Horse because of Race Safety. :confused:

Because Horses don't always run straight in the stretch Jockey use the whips to keep a Horse running as straight as possible. I don't believe the new whips keep Horses as straight in the stretch as the old ones. Therefore Racing Safety is compromised. :ThmbDown:

I know many Horseplayers think that the whips are only to urge a Horse on but most Jockeys will tell you they are also part of Race Safety. Just from watching a limited number of races I believe certain Jockeys like Garret Gomez who have an aggressive riding style are going to have a tough time winning at a high percentage from now on. A Jockey like Bejerano with a more passive style will do as well or better. The new whips may help frontrunners and hinder closers but who knows?


http://blog.winningponies.com/2008/11/03/new-procush-whips-at-churchill-downs/

Excerpt:

Kent Desormeaux: “I’ve ridden many horses that would never have been a race horse without a riding crop. Some of them need encouragement, and the ProCush ain’t much encouragement. … I can use it on my hand, as hard as I want, and it doesn’t get my attention, even.”

Bill Troilo: “Hate ‘em; it’s like hitting a horse with a fly swatter. You hit a horse with it, and you don’t get any reaction.”Iimagine it is bad for the bettors because horses who ship in from other tracks where they still use regular whips will not respond to the pro cush, and horses shipping to tracks with reg whips may react negatively.That being said i think soon all of racing will be using the new whips, and everybody including the horses will adjust.The trainers will begin using the new whips from the beginning of the training process with their young unraced horses. For these horses that will be enough because they will never have been hit with a real whip.

[ryesteve]

Not to be cynical, but the main reason this is going to be bad for the bettor is that it's going to give a bigger edge to the jockeys with buzzers. And since it'll be tough to know which ones they are, we're screwed.

[illinoisbred]

The Pro Cush has been used in the 1st and 2nd races at Arlington for about 4 weeks now.From the 3rd race on riders have freedom of choice.

[illinoisbred]

Not to be cynical, but the main reason this is going to be bad for the bettor is that it's going to give a bigger edge to the jockeys with buzzers. And since it'll be tough to know which ones they are, we're screwed.
The usual suspects.All those that have crawled their way out of some backwater Louisiana swamphole.

[ryesteve]

The usual suspects.All those that have crawled their way out of some backwater Louisiana swamphole.But the thing is, once these guys are forced to use whips that apparently have no effect, that will motivate more of them, besides the usual suspects, to resort to them.

[kenwoodallpromos]

he animal lovers (who picket 1 time per year at 1 track?) say the problems with whips are: 1) Whipping too many times and 2) Using them at all.
A softer whip still looks like the horse is being whipped. The other day I saw the start of a race where the gate was parked in the chute with a gap between the end of the gate and the turn on the track. As soon as the gates opened the 1 post horse turned left and tried to go the wrong way- what stopped the horse was the whip.
I have said use whips whose color blend- I guess they would be either the color of the horse or of the saddle cloth (or even make 2 colors- white or black to blend with the number on the saddlecloth?) Can they make a clear whip?

[Robert Fischer]

Iimagine it is bad for the bettors because horses who ship in from other tracks where they still use regular whips will not respond to the pro cush, and horses shipping to tracks with reg whips may react negatively.

c'mon!
have your cake and eat it too why don't ya! ;)

they'll be fine

[Robert Fischer]

Not to be cynical, but the main reason this is going to be bad for the bettor is that it's going to give a bigger edge to the jockeys with buzzers. And since it'll be tough to know which ones they are, we're screwed.

they are the ones who typically show move-ups after getting on the horse in the mornings first and then riding it on race day. Usually you see the jockey with the "statue" pose as long as possible thumbs into the neck of the horse where he's been conditioned in the morning , and not using the buzzer in the afternoon. Especially the speed horses and the jockey doesn't appear to move on the horse, even when you'd expect them to shake the horse up

[illinoisbred]

From what I'e heard locally,safety may be the main issue.The whip is used as much for navigating or "steering" as it is for urging a horse on.

[Robert Fischer]

too many jockeys CHRONICALLY bid prematurely and make there horses duck in entering the stretch , and half of those bozos have made it a habit to smack the hell out of the horse lefty upon entering to correct for their poor riding fundamentals. :bang:

[dutzman]

Its the perception to the casual racing fan that the jockeys are whipping the hell out of the horses as they come down the stretch. This is also the perception of anti-racing group. They always point to the horses being whipped down the stretch....that our sport in cruel. If racing wants to eliminate that perception to the general public, they need to ban the whip altogether. Just using a softer whip does nothing for the perception. People still see the horse getting hit.

[andymays]

Its the perception to the casual racing fan that the jockeys are whipping the hell out of the horses as they come down the stretch. This is also the perception of anti-racing group. They always point to the horses being whipped down the stretch....that our sport in cruel. If racing wants to eliminate that perception to the general public, they need to ban the whip altogether. Just using a softer whip does nothing for the perception. People still see the horse getting hit.


I agree about the perception but I think we've reached a point where we have to decide where to draw the line.

Maybe we should turn the Race Tracks into Museums with Petting Zoos and put slots and poker machines in the clubhouse with a few Horse Racing sim games.

To Hell with Peta!

[illinoisbred]

Its the perception to the casual racing fan that the jockeys are whipping the hell out of the horses as they come down the stretch. This is also the perception of anti-racing group. They always point to the horses being whipped down the stretch....that our sport in cruel. If racing wants to eliminate that perception to the general public, they need to ban the whip altogether. Just using a softer whip does nothing for the perception. People still see the horse getting hit.
We or they{anti-racing group}should not mess with tradition,human,and animal safety.I'm sure by now if riders thought racing could be conducted safely without a whip, whips would be history.Another example of a bunch of do-gooders that are really doing no good,only harm.Kind of reminds me of when George Costanza thought the NY Yankees would be more comfortable in cotton uniforms.

[andymays]

We or they{anti-racing group}should not mess with tradition,human,and animal safety.I'm sure by now if riders thought racing could be conducted safely without a whip, whips would be history.Another example of a bunch of do-gooders that are really doing no good,only harm.Kind of reminds me of when George Costanza thought the NY Yankees would be more comfortable in cotton uniforms.

:lol:

[illinoisbred]

they are the ones who typically show move-ups after getting on the horse in the mornings first and then riding it on race day. Usually you see the jockey with the "statue" pose as long as possible thumbs into the neck of the horse where he's been conditioned in the morning , and not using the buzzer in the afternoon. Especially the speed horses and the jockey doesn't appear to move on the horse, even when you'd expect them to shake the horse up
I remember when Geary Louviere got caught using a battery at Balmoral{yes,the horse won}.It was just as you say,but man did that horse accellerate.

[andymays]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25970297-11088,00.html

Excerpt:

JOCKEYS throughout Australia have been surveyed about the new whip rules, which have sparked more controversy than anyone could have imagined.

Results of the survey will form the backbone of a submission by the Australian Jockeys' Association to next month's Australian Racing Board meeting.

[robert99]

Apprentice jockeys in UK now have a series of hands and heels race where they basically carry but do not use the whip unless horse veers off or before each jump in hunt racing. Idea is to train them first to ride horses properly in a finish and not to get into bad whip habits that do nothing for a horse's race chances.

http://www.brs.org.uk/jockey_news/Hands_and_Heels/Conditions_-_Flat_Series/