New season of "Jockeys" on Animal Planet

[Imriledup]

They just refuse to get rid of the fake and staged racecalls by Trevor Denman. I watched the show yesterday with someone who's not a serious racing fan and even THEY were laughing at how idiotic this was. Just lets hear the real racecall. They treat the viewers like they are total buffoons. Just tell us once that Chantal is riding Bully Cubed and that's all we need to know, we don't need to hear that 'Chantal is taking the lead". Lets just hear the real call, it cheapens the show with these fake calls.

[DanG]

I know I’ll be in vast minority again; but I liked it and my daughter and all her friends did as well.

I will admit; I haven’t been very happy with the So cal stewards this year, so seeing them made it hard to keep my dinner down. :D

[andymays]

All things considered it's good for racing. Could it be better? Yes

[MickJ26]

Based on the first episode, I found it to be an improvement over the last season.
I liked how they explained the claiming game to the casual fan. I didn't know Corey Nakatani was that big of a crybaby. I agree though, the cheesy, canned Trevor calls have to go. In the tease for next week, they even have Trevor calling at Dubai and Aqueduct. Kristin Mulhall is kind of cute, though.

[jballscalls]

I don't think i'll ever root for Corey Nakatani ever again LOL

[SaratogaSteve]

I know I’ll be in vast minority again; but I liked it and my daughter and all her friends did as well.

I will admit; I haven’t been very happy with the So cal stewards this year, so seeing them made it hard to keep my dinner down. :D

I agree w/ Dan and andy. It was a little more cohesive and told more of the story behind racing, including drugs. Could it be better? Yes. Could they do w/o Trevor's calls? Yes. Is it a better promotion for the sport than TVG? Yes!!!

[macguy]

Based on the first episode, I found it to be an improvement over the last season.
Kristin Mulhall is kind of cute, though.


...not having a very good year this year, though.

[Brogan]

Doesn't anyone have a problem with Mulhall talking about a hidden work? It sure perturbs me.

[juanepstein]

Based on the first episode, I found it to be an improvement over the last season.
I liked how they explained the claiming game to the casual fan. I didn't know Corey Nakatani was that big of a crybaby. I agree though, the cheesy, canned Trevor calls have to go. In the tease for next week, they even have Trevor calling at Dubai and Aqueduct. Kristin Mulhall is kind of cute, though.

hes better than what he used to be.

me and some buddies went night golfing at the local arcadia par 3 and we notice this black mercedes benz pull all the way to the front and park diagonally across two hanicap parking spots. who pops out of the driver seat- MR COREY NAKATANI. playing a round of night golf by himself of course.

[Imriledup]

Doesn't anyone have a problem with Mulhall talking about a hidden work? It sure perturbs me.

Its not a hidden work. The works start at 4:30 and thats when she worked the horse. She didn't work the horse when the track was closed to official DRF clockers.

[juanepstein]

Doesn't anyone have a problem with Mulhall talking about a hidden work? It sure perturbs me.

she means hidden as so no trainer can see the horse working and clock him.

the term hidden works from what im used to and what happens all the time at los alamitos is a hidden work is purposely having the jock throw down slow times.

have a friend out here that works the window at the otb at night and all he does is find hidden work patterns at los alamitos. hes real good at it too.

[Mineshaft]

Hidden means the horse worked so so in an official workout and they know the horse can work better but they didnt want it to work that fast. Im assuming they are wanting a price on the horse when it runs

[Brogan]

Its not a hidden work. The works start at 4:30 and thats when she worked the horse. She didn't work the horse when the track was closed to official DRF clockers.
I said she talked about it. She said she'd work him in the dark and hope they couldn't identify the horse. "They" meaning the clockers. Trainers don't hang on the rail all morning clocking other horses. It was clearly an intention to deceive.

[Tom]

Doesn't anyone have a problem with Mulhall talking about a hidden work? It sure perturbs me.

Bingo! I thought that when I saw it. I forgot Iw as not going to watch that stupid show again, after the nonsense they pulled with the BC last year.

I think she needs to be investigated and suspended. Did she mention the jungle juice she is going to stick him with for the big race? :rolleyes:The game doesn't need a low life talking about hiding horse info . Hidden work out - just what racing needs is a POS shouting off her mouth like that. Add that to the stupid call being made by for the show and I think it is no good at all for racing.

I hope Chantel and Mike break up, too.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Poll: Who should be banned from watching "Jockeys" on ANimal Planet?
1) Animal lovers who accept them domesticated and in entertainment;
2) Peta and other animal rights types;
3) Negative horseplayers? :lol:

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Poll: Who should be banned from watching "Jockeys" on ANimal Planet?
1) Animal lovers who accept them domesticated and in entertainment;
2) Peta and other animal rights types;
3) Negative horseplayers? :lol:




LOL:lol:

[Imriledup]

I said she talked about it. She said she'd work him in the dark and hope they couldn't identify the horse. "They" meaning the clockers. Trainers don't hang on the rail all morning clocking other horses. It was clearly an intention to deceive.

So, what's wrong with that? She wanted to protect her investment. All trainers should work at 4:30 in the dark and force 'independent clockers' to get out of bed at 3:30 if they want to see it.

[boomman]

I said she talked about it. She said she'd work him in the dark and hope they couldn't identify the horse. "They" meaning the clockers. Trainers don't hang on the rail all morning clocking other horses. It was clearly an intention to deceive.

Having been a clocker for 5 years and a horseplayer for many more years than that, I agree that her statement was CLEARLY meant to deceive the public. It's wrong and is ALWAYS wrong, and does everything to re-iterate to the public a "shady" side of horse racing. I have met Kristin Mulhall at Del Mar and thought her to be a very nice young lady, but that was poor judgment to say that she had that intention while being on TV cameras, (not that it would be right anytime) and what she did was to contributed greatly to giving our sport another "seedy element" blackeye...........:ThmbDown:

Boomer

[Imriledup]

[/i][/b]

Having been a clocker for 5 years and a horseplayer for many more years than that, I agree that her statement was CLEARLY meant to deceive the public. It's wrong and is ALWAYS wrong, and does everything to re-iterate to the public a "shady" side of horse racing. I have met Kristin Mulhall at Del Mar and thought her to be a very nice young lady, but that was poor judgment to say that she had that intention while being on TV cameras, (not that it would be right anytime) and what she did was to contributed greatly to giving our sport another "seedy element" blackeye...........:ThmbDown:

Boomer

I think she wanted to deceive rival owners and trainers from claiming her horse. This is done all the time by everyone, no need to single out Kristin as the only one who wants to work at 4:30.

The question remains that if her horse was not available to be claimed, would she have gone out of her way to work at 4:30?

Also, doesn't Kristin always work her horses at 4:30 usually?

I think Animal Planet wanted to spin this to make it seem like they were hiding something, i agree that racing doesn't need this type of situation where people feel that trainers are being sneaky, but to people who know the game, we all know this stuff goes on all the time, especially in claiming races.

[WinterTriangle]

to people who know the game, we all know this stuff goes on all the time, especially in claiming races.

Yes, we do know this stuff goes on.

So.... speaking of *deceiving*, it appears that some posters are suggesting that Animal Planet should instead present to the viewers, a false picture of the racing industry, portraying it "cleaner" than it is?

Irony is not dead, I guess.;)


BTW, I had one heck of a time seeing the workouts of some of the KY Derby horses which were filmed under dark of night. Why bother making the videos?:D

[Pace Cap'n]

So the track opens for workouts at 4:30 AM, yet no one should work a horse at that time? What would be a proper time for a workout? 5:00? 8:00? First light? When Animal Planet says it's OK?

If everyone knows workouts start at 4:30, then what is the problem?

[illinoisbred]

Years ago here in illinois it wasn't uncommon for certain trainers to sneak in workouts before the track opened.In one of his earlier books, Andy Beyer mentions by name one of them, Dennis Cooper.He's now a jockey's agent.He had Mark Guidry,Rene Douglas{until his spill}, and now Fernando Jara.

[Mineshaft]

She did nothing wrong. She worked her horse early which is allowable. Wether it was an official work or not i dont know, but a lot of trainers work horses early before everyone gets to the track. If it wasnt an official work then she does not have to tell anyone what horse worked. Nothing wrong here yall are getting yall panties in an uproar.

[Mineshaft]

When will Animal Planet show the replay?

[depalma113]

Come on people, it's a TV show. They are going after the audince that watched Seabiscuit not people that are familiar with what really goes on.

That audience remembers Seabiscuit worked out in the dark when he was preparing for War Admiral. The show is trying to recreate that same drama.

[illinoisbred]

Come on people, it's a TV show. They are going after the audince that watched Seabiscuit not people that are familiar with what really goes on.

That audience remembers Seabiscuit worked out in the dark when he was preparing for War Admiral. The show is trying to recreate that same drama.
What really goes on?I play from home so I don't know if things are still done as they were 10-15 years ago.Back then I was personally familiar with a couple of clockers and I know for a fact that if they caught something good that time never saw the drf presses.

[Niko]

Are working horses in the dark new...horse racing not totally honest....what???

I wonder if she bet on the horse too....

good point about the analogy to Seabiscuit.

[Mineshaft]

Are working horses in the dark new...horse racing not totally honest....what???

I wonder if she bet on the horse too....

good point about the analogy to Seabiscuit.





Nothing new.

She was probably trying to steal a race with the horse. or keep it as long as she could before they claimed the horse.

[DSB]

She did nothing wrong. She worked her horse early which is allowable. Wether it was an official work or not i dont know, but a lot of trainers work horses early before everyone gets to the track. If it wasnt an official work then she does not have to tell anyone what horse worked. Nothing wrong here yall are getting yall panties in an uproar.

Where did this concept of works being either "official" or "unofficial" come from?

Any track I've ever raced at, all works are official unless they are too slow to be considered a workout.

For example, a 3f breeze that goes in :40 or slower wouldn't be considered a work at any place I've ever been. Nor would a two minute lick or a 4f breeze that goes in :55 or slower.

Think how ludicrous it would be if a trainer could declare a work "unofficial", then have the horse go out and breeze in :46 for a half and not get published.

[illinoisbred]

Do many outfits out east,particularly Maryland and Virginia still do all their training at the farm?In fact,didn't Deputed Testimony{Preakness winner} do all his training and workouts at the farm?

[Mineshaft]

Where did this concept of works being either "official" or "unofficial" come from?

Any track I've ever raced at, all works are official unless they are too slow to be considered a workout.

For example, a 3f breeze that goes in :40 or slower wouldn't be considered a work at any place I've ever been. Nor would a two minute lick or a 4f breeze that goes in :55 or slower.

Think how ludicrous it would be if a trainer could declare a work "unofficial", then have the horse go out and breeze in :46 for a half and not get published.






From where im from you can work a horse and not get an official work with the horse. You dont have to get an official work with the horse. Now in California it might be different, maybe someone from Cali can tell us what the rules are there.


Its not ludicrous at all to work a horse fast and not get it published. Its done all the time. Theres nothing set in stone down here that says you have to get an official work when your horse works. Like i said it might be different in Cali i dont know.

[joanied]

She did nothing wrong. She worked her horse early which is allowable. Wether it was an official work or not i dont know, but a lot of trainers work horses early before everyone gets to the track. If it wasnt an official work then she does not have to tell anyone what horse worked. Nothing wrong here yall are getting yall panties in an uproar.

Might be a mistake to reply to this post as I haven't read all the posts pertaining to this...what I think is 'they' went about this particular segment all wrong...my husband was watching with me and he thought they were 'cheating'...the casual fan watching this show might also interpret it that way...'they' didn't make it clear enough what she intended to do...simply hope her horse was not officially clocked because she didn't want him claimed...no big deal, unless, like my husband, you don't understand this 'type' of work...which would lead you to think they are cheating.

imriledup said it well: "I think Animal Planet wanted to spin this to make it seem like they were hiding something, i agree that racing doesn't need this type of situation where people feel that trainers are being sneaky, but to people who know the game, we all know this stuff goes on all the time, especially in claiming races."

[joanied]

Years ago here in illinois it wasn't uncommon for certain trainers to sneak in workouts before the track opened.In one of his earlier books, Andy Beyer mentions by name one of them, Dennis Cooper.He's now a jockey's agent.He had Mark Guidry,Rene Douglas{until his spill}, and now Fernando Jara.

Yep...when I was at Belmont, TJ Kelly had a horse that was gonna run and we knew the odds would be looooong...now, this horse was training like gangbusters...my ex husband was getting on him in the mornings...last work before he ran, he & TJ took him out before the clockers got there...when he ran, he won and paid huge!!

[illinoisbred]

I can recall I believe a Labor Day in what I remember were the late 80's A 2 yr old was going to make his 1st start at Hawthorne {.Arlington rebuilding at the time}.The word was to ignore the workouts,they were for some other unraced Bert Sonnier horse.The one that ran that day and romped by double digit lengths-Meadowlake.

[Mineshaft]

Mulhall has come out and stated the horse indeed did get an official work. She just worked the horse early morning so no independent clockers would be there or any trainers would be there that early in the morning. Thats the reason she worked him early. And it was indeed a published work.

[DSB]

Mulhall has come out and stated the horse indeed did get an official work. She just worked the horse early morning so no independent clockers would be there or any trainers would be there that early in the morning. Thats the reason she worked him early. And it was indeed a published work.


During all this discussion, nobody has yet explained what an "unofficial" work is, and how one goes about doing it.

It appears that the term "unofficial" is being confused with "unpublished".

If Ms. Mulhall wanted to get the horse out early so nobody would clock it, and she reported the work to the clockers and it was published, she went to the trouble of daylighting the horse for nothing.

[Mineshaft]

During all this discussion, nobody has yet explained what an "unofficial" work is, and how one goes about doing it.

It appears that the term "unofficial" is being confused with "unpublished".

If Ms. Mulhall wanted to get the horse out early so nobody would clock it, and she reported the work to the clockers and it was published, she went to the trouble of daylighting the horse for nothing.





Unofficial means the horse worked but it wasnt published

Official means the horse work and it was published


She worked the horse early because she didnt want any independent clockers or trainers watching or clocking the work. Only the official clocker timed the work.

[DSB]

Unofficial means the horse worked but it wasnt published

Official means the horse work and it was published


She worked the horse early because she didnt want any independent clockers or trainers watching or clocking the work. Only the official clocker timed the work.

okay, now I get it. however, it should be noted that this definition is yours, and nothing I've ever heard on the racetrack before....

so, according to you, Ms. Mulhall didn't mind her horse's work being clocked, so long as it wasn't clocked by unofficial clockers.

I have to wonder.... would the unofficial clockers have gotten a different time than the official clocker? because if all clockers - both official and unofficial - got the same time, why would it matter if the "unofficial" clockers saw it or not?

you know, this whole discussion has become rather silly. If you've spent any time on the backstretch of a racetrack, you'd know that the observation stands aren't frequented by "unofficial clockers" or "trainers looking to steal a horse" as much as they are by horsemen throwing the bull about the local baseball team or something else as irrelevant to racing.

most claims are made by form, the reputation of the trainer being claimed from, and observation of races, pure and simple. some people don't even go to the paddock to check out a claim, so why would they fret about how a horse looks in the morning?

add to that the fact that it is extremely difficult to identify any one particular horse that's on the track for 10 mins in a sea of other horses, and you'd realize how stupid this sounds to a horseman.

Finally, trying to hide a work is against the rules of most tracks. A rider is required to report the name of the horse, the distance of the work, and the name of the trainer to the clocker when they enter the track. Any infractions are supposed to be reported to the stewards, although admittedly they rarely are.

There is a reason for these requirements. Hiding a workout is considered an attempt to deceive the betting public, and because bettors pay all the freight in this game, it is a good rule. Workouts are part of the horse's record and something many bettors rely on. They should be full, honest and accurate.

Are some workouts hidden? Sure. And some trainers use illegal drugs, some riders stiff horses, and some horses are raced without being properly trained.

That doesn't make any of it right.

What you define as an "unofficial workout" is a euphemism for "hiding a workout".

There is no provision for doing so, and if I am wrong, please show me proof.

[Mineshaft]

okay, now I get it. however, it should be noted that this definition is yours, and nothing I've ever heard on the racetrack before....

so, according to you, Ms. Mulhall didn't mind her horse's work being clocked, so long as it wasn't clocked by unofficial clockers.

I have to wonder.... would the unofficial clockers have gotten a different time than the official clocker? because if all clockers - both official and unofficial - got the same time, why would it matter if the "unofficial" clockers saw it or not?

you know, this whole discussion has become rather silly. If you've spent any time on the backstretch of a racetrack, you'd know that the observation stands aren't frequented by "unofficial clockers" or "trainers looking to steal a horse" as much as they are by horsemen throwing the bull about the local baseball team or something else as irrelevant to racing.

most claims are made by form, the reputation of the trainer being claimed from, and observation of races, pure and simple. some people don't even go to the paddock to check out a claim, so why would they fret about how a horse looks in the morning?

add to that the fact that it is extremely difficult to identify any one particular horse that's on the track for 10 mins in a sea of other horses, and you'd realize how stupid this sounds to a horseman.

Finally, trying to hide a work is against the rules of most tracks. A rider is required to report the name of the horse, the distance of the work, and the name of the trainer to the clocker when they enter the track. Any infractions are supposed to be reported to the stewards, although admittedly they rarely are.

There is a reason for these requirements. Hiding a workout is considered an attempt to deceive the betting public, and because bettors pay all the freight in this game, it is a good rule. Workouts are part of the horse's record and something many bettors rely on. They should be full, honest and accurate.

Are some workouts hidden? Sure. And some trainers use illegal drugs, some riders stiff horses, and some horses are raced without being properly trained.

That doesn't make any of it right.

What you define as an "unofficial workout" is a euphemism for "hiding a workout".

There is no provision for doing so, and if I am wrong, please show me proof.





Ok stay with me here:

I dont know the rules in Cali. I know where im from i can work my horse a 1/2 mile and not get an official work if i dont want to. But i still can work my horse. If i want an official work i turn my workout card in and get an official 1/2 mile work. If i dont want an official work i dont turn the card in and i tell the jock to work the horse a 1/2 mile. You DO NOT have to have every work an official work where i run at.


Now in Cali it might be different. Maybe you might have to have an official work if you want to work your horse. I dont know someone please tell us what the rules are in Cali.


Mulhall got an official work with the horse she didnt hide anything. She got the horse clocked from the official clocker. She did everything right.


A lot of people do not claim off the form. They like to see a horse work. They like to see how he gallops out. Does he switch leads down the lane? How he pulls up? Is he bleeding from the nose after the work? Is he off in his front somewhere? There are a lot of things you can tell from a work.

Every independent clocker knows every horse out there on the track. So its real easy to find out which horse is working. Mulhall wanted to work the horse early so the trainers and independent clockers wouldnt be there. If they wanted to see the horse work then they should of been there. She did everything right. She worked the horse, got an official work, and did it when the track opened for training. Whats so hard to understand about this?

[InsideThePylons-MW]

my husband was watching with me and he thought they were 'cheating'

My friend's mom thought the exact same thing.

[DSB]

Ok stay with me here:

I dont know the rules in Cali. I know where im from i can work my horse a 1/2 mile and not get an official work if i dont want to. But i still can work my horse. If i want an official work i turn my workout card in and get an official 1/2 mile work. If i dont want an official work i dont turn the card in and i tell the jock to work the horse a 1/2 mile. You DO NOT have to have every work an official work where i run at.


Now in Cali it might be different. Maybe you might have to have an official work if you want to work your horse. I dont know someone please tell us what the rules are in Cali.


Mulhall got an official work with the horse she didnt hide anything. She got the horse clocked from the official clocker. She did everything right.


A lot of people do not claim off the form. They like to see a horse work. They like to see how he gallops out. Does he switch leads down the lane? How he pulls up? Is he bleeding from the nose after the work? Is he off in his front somewhere? There are a lot of things you can tell from a work.

Every independent clocker knows every horse out there on the track. So its real easy to find out which horse is working. Mulhall wanted to work the horse early so the trainers and independent clockers wouldnt be there. If they wanted to see the horse work then they should of been there. She did everything right. She worked the horse, got an official work, and did it when the track opened for training. Whats so hard to understand about this?



It is contrary to everything I know to be true, that's what.

A: Whatever place you race at, if they allow horses to work and not be published, it's something that isn't done here. I have never heard of a "work card" and can assure you that isn't in use at the major northeast tracks (and I'd wager at virtually all major tracks elsewhere), either. If your track allows it, they are a party to deceiving the public. Can you imagine a trainer saying "I want to work my horse a half in :46 today, but don't want it to get published. Next week, I will work the same horse in :54 and I do want that published. I'm planning on racing him after that and ought to get a big, fat price off that slow work. Oh, and thanks for being so understanding". Like I said in an earlier post, ludicrous.

B: A lot of people do claim off form, trainer reps, etc. If you had to see a horse work before you'd claim him, you'd be waiting a long time between claims. First, he'd have to work before you claim him, and some horses never work if they are racing regularly - they don't need it. Then, you'd have to be able to identify the horse, then you'd have to know when he's going to work, you'd have to be in the spot where he leaves the track, you'd have to have an unobstructed view of the horse at all times.... give me a break.

C: NOBODY knows every horse on the track at all times. Hell, I've seen trainers not be able to tell a couple of chestnut horses apart if they are a sixteenth of a mile away... and they trained both of them. Even what you call "official Clockers" occasionally have to ask the name of a horse because even they - and believe me the head clocker at Monmouth is incredible - can't identify every single horse.

Just where do you race, anyway? Saskatoon?

[Mineshaft]

It is contrary to everything I know to be true, that's what.

A: Whatever place you race at, if they allow horses to work and not be published, it's something that isn't done here. I have never heard of a "work card" and can assure you that isn't in use at the major northeast tracks (and I'd wager at virtually all major tracks elsewhere), either. If your track allows it, they are a party to deceiving the public. Can you imagine a trainer saying "I want to work my horse a half in :46 today, but don't want it to get published. Next week, I will work the same horse in :54 and I do want that published. I'm planning on racing him after that and ought to get a big, fat price off that slow work. Oh, and thanks for being so understanding". Like I said in an earlier post, ludicrous.

B: A lot of people do claim off form, trainer reps, etc. If you had to see a horse work before you'd claim him, you'd be waiting a long time between claims. First, he'd have to work before you claim him, and some horses never work if they are racing regularly - they don't need it. Then, you'd have to be able to identify the horse, then you'd have to know when he's going to work, you'd have to be in the spot where he leaves the track, you'd have to have an unobstructed view of the horse at all times.... give me a break.

C: NOBODY knows every horse on the track at all times. Hell, I've seen trainers not be able to tell a couple of chestnut horses apart if they are a sixteenth of a mile away... and they trained both of them. Even what you call "official Clockers" occasionally have to ask the name of a horse because even they - and believe me the head clocker at Monmouth is incredible - can't identify every single horse.

Just where do you race, anyway? Saskatoon?





A-Like i said before Cali might be different. A lot of tracks you can work your horse and not have to get an official work. You have never heard of a work card? Serioulsy you havent heard of that? Where have you been hiding? Under a rock?

B-A lot of people do claim off of form and a lot DO NOT claim off of form. And a lot of people claim off of works. If your at the track every day and on the rail you know what horses are coming out of each barn and who is training them. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. The horse works and comes off the track and you can ask the rider if you know him "hey who is that horse" or someone else might know who the horse is. Doesnt take a genuis to figure out what horse it is.


C-Jocks know every horse at the track. Jock agents know every horse at the track. Clockers know every horse at the track. Where the hell have you been hiding? Im not saying you have to identify every horse, hell nobody can do that. But name a few horses and all those people can tell you about the horses and what it ate last nite.

D-It pays to know clockers, grooms, jocks. Thats how you know what horses are working.


Where the hell do you race? Yellowstone Downs?

[joanied]

My friend's mom thought the exact same thing.

Ahah...I bet a ton of folks that don't know much about racing thought that too...it would have been a much better segment if they could have gotten across exactly what she was doing :bang: (Glad she got to keep the horse:))

But...despite that segment...I thought they did a good job with the first episode... explaining the claiming races was good...

I think some of you will disagree...but I didn't think a show like this was the proper forum to bring up drugs...it's too complicated an issue to toss into a show like this...leave the contraversial (spelling?) stuff out and stay with the positive...after all, it's a show to attract new fans...

I've never been a big fan of Corey N...after this episode, I can't beleive what an a$$hole he is... like Baffert said, he's his own worst enemy...and IMO, has no class at all.... and, IMO, I actually think he should have been ruled off for an entire year aftere he pushed that other rider off his mount...like I said...a$$hole!

Overall, I liked the first episode...I really like the opening for it...I hope they don't spend too much time on Mike & Chantall's relationship this season...but hope they might highlight a little of Mike & Zenyatta...

my biggest gripe is same as everyone's...they have got to stop dubbing over the race calls...it's embarassing... maybe we can all send a email to the producer or whom ever...it's awful...in fact it's f****ing awful:eek:

[Hanover1]

I said she talked about it. She said she'd work him in the dark and hope they couldn't identify the horse. "They" meaning the clockers. Trainers don't hang on the rail all morning clocking other horses. It was clearly an intention to deceive.
"they" Meaning other trainers, because she was going to run for a tag, and did not want to be clocked by another trainer-you miss them trying to fool us into believing the horse was gonna get claimed??

[DSB]

Where the hell do you race? Yellowstone Downs?

No, obviously I race at a major track that has rules about workouts, where nobody can identify every horse on the track, and where the vast majority of horses are not claimed based on works.

Of course, that's the same for most every credible racetrack I can think of.

Guess it's different at Mudbug Downs, huh?

[classhandicapper]

I know I’ll be in vast minority again; but I liked it and my daughter and all her friends did as well.

I will admit; I haven’t been very happy with the So cal stewards this year, so seeing them made it hard to keep my dinner down. :D

I like the show a lot. I'm not sure what people are expecting or what they don't like.

I thought the whole part about working the horse in the morning darkness and putting wraps on to help prevent it from getting claimed was a lot of fun because we all know that the claiming is really a poker game.

I don't even mind the silly race calls. An unsophisticated audience is not going to be able to follow the key horses in any race well. I think it's the best possible way to help non racing fans enjoy the race.

[Hanover1]

[/i][/b]

Having been a clocker for 5 years and a horseplayer for many more years than that, I agree that her statement was CLEARLY meant to deceive the public. It's wrong and is ALWAYS wrong, and does everything to re-iterate to the public a "shady" side of horse racing. I have met Kristin Mulhall at Del Mar and thought her to be a very nice young lady, but that was poor judgment to say that she had that intention while being on TV cameras, (not that it would be right anytime) and what she did was to contributed greatly to giving our sport another "seedy element" blackeye...........:ThmbDown:

Boomer
After all the time you claim to have been around this game, you cannot understand that she was going to run for a tag next out, and did not want to be clocked by a trainer (who they tried to dupe us into believing was gonna claim the horse) and risk losing the horse. Horse needed a race, and alot of time a MC is the only way to go.....Still not clear?? Just how is that deceiving the public?? Official work was published............your ill conceived comments are the EXACT reason people believe such crap. :bang:

[Mineshaft]

No, obviously I race at a major track that has rules about workouts, where nobody can identify every horse on the track, and where the vast majority of horses are not claimed based on works.

Of course, that's the same for most every credible racetrack I can think of.

Guess it's different at Mudbug Downs, huh?





I do also race at a major track. So i guess Fair Grounds is not a major track. "Learn the rules Laddie" becasue obvisioulsy you dont know them.


And yes i love my mudbugs...

[Mineshaft]

After all the time you claim to have been around this game, you cannot understand that she was going to run for a tag next out, and did not want to be clocked by a trainer (who they tried to dupe us into believing was gonna claim the horse) and risk losing the horse. Horse needed a race, and alot of time a MC is the only way to go.....Still not clear?? Just how is that deceiving the public?? Official work was published............your ill conceived comments are the EXACT reason people believe such crap. :bang:





Yes u da man. Someone that gets it..

[Hanover1]

Nothing new.

She was probably trying to steal a race with the horse. or keep it as long as she could before they claimed the horse.
I cant believe that all these posters on this thread dont get this :bang: Of course she had him under wraps....You can only hide them for so long, and the race usually tells on them. She did nothin illegal, shady, wrong, suspect, or immoral. Just another day on the backside dealin with the biz............

[Tom]

Tell that to the people who are now convinced the game is fixed.

[Mineshaft]

Did DSB disappear?

[DSB]

Did DSB disappear?

Nope. But off to bed now. Have to be at the track at 5:30....

[Niko]

Nothing new.

She was probably trying to steal a race with the horse. or keep it as long as she could before they claimed the horse.

I don't think my sarcasm came through....

[Imriledup]

okay, now I get it. however, it should be noted that this definition is yours, and nothing I've ever heard on the racetrack before....

so, according to you, Ms. Mulhall didn't mind her horse's work being clocked, so long as it wasn't clocked by unofficial clockers.

I have to wonder.... would the unofficial clockers have gotten a different time than the official clocker? because if all clockers - both official and unofficial - got the same time, why would it matter if the "unofficial" clockers saw it or not?

you know, this whole discussion has become rather silly. If you've spent any time on the backstretch of a racetrack, you'd know that the observation stands aren't frequented by "unofficial clockers" or "trainers looking to steal a horse" as much as they are by horsemen throwing the bull about the local baseball team or something else as irrelevant to racing.

most claims are made by form, the reputation of the trainer being claimed from, and observation of races, pure and simple. some people don't even go to the paddock to check out a claim, so why would they fret about how a horse looks in the morning?

add to that the fact that it is extremely difficult to identify any one particular horse that's on the track for 10 mins in a sea of other horses, and you'd realize how stupid this sounds to a horseman.

Finally, trying to hide a work is against the rules of most tracks. A rider is required to report the name of the horse, the distance of the work, and the name of the trainer to the clocker when they enter the track. Any infractions are supposed to be reported to the stewards, although admittedly they rarely are.

There is a reason for these requirements. Hiding a workout is considered an attempt to deceive the betting public, and because bettors pay all the freight in this game, it is a good rule. Workouts are part of the horse's record and something many bettors rely on. They should be full, honest and accurate.

Are some workouts hidden? Sure. And some trainers use illegal drugs, some riders stiff horses, and some horses are raced without being properly trained.

That doesn't make any of it right.

What you define as an "unofficial workout" is a euphemism for "hiding a workout".

There is no provision for doing so, and if I am wrong, please show me proof.

This is not necessarily true. In a rush of horses, DRF clockers can miss a few. The few them miss are unofficial yet they are not all 'hidden' They just got missed in a big rush of horses (right after the renovation break probably)

Kristin did nothing wrong and didn't really go out of her way to hide the horse. She worked the horse during regular training hours in front of official DRF clockers, if they missed her work, that's their fault, not hers.

Kristin took a shot that not every private clocker was on the grounds at 4:30 and even if everyone was in their seats with binoculars in hand, they might not have been able to really evaluate this horse's talent even if they were able to actually identify who it was in the first place.

Want to touch on your paragraph that starts off "I have to wonder"

She doesnt' want the 'unofficial' clockers to SEE the work because even if the clocker doesn't have the same time, the private clockers can evaluate the length of stride and tell if they think the horse is good or not. Official clockers get paid by the DRF to just clock times, they are not out there to 'evaluate' talent. Private clockers are trying to evaluate talent and don't care as much what the watch says. Kristin didn't want professional private clockers to see the horse because those pairs of eyes are experts at evaluating the actual talent of the racehorse. THIS is what she was leery of imo.

[WinterTriangle]

re NAKATANI, I don't believe you have to be arrogant to show confidence. Arrogance denies confidence, as truly confident people are not that way. However, anyone who allows their bad behavior to be filmed has to have some good naturedness. :)

I do like the gritty though. Realistic stuff. Not the stuff of Seabiscuit movies, although I'm a sucker for that, too. LOL I thought the stuff on claiming races was good.

I don't think they can outdo Johnny Carson snippet when he had Patti Barton on. Bill Christine gives a good account of it. Carson asked her if she'd ever gotten in fights with male riders.

Patti related how she and Cliff Thompson got into it coming off the track, and mentioned she grabbed him in the gonads.

"That's the closest you'll ever come to a man," Carson said.

"From what I felt, I'm not sure I had one," Patti said.

Carson did a pencil flip then said: "Welcome to the hard-hitting world of horse racing, folks."

Bring it on, Animal Planet!

[Imriledup]

re NAKATANI, I don't believe you have to be arrogant to show confidence. Arrogance denies confidence, as truly confident people are not that way. However, anyone who allows their bad behavior to be filmed has to have some good naturedness. :)

I do like the gritty though. Realistic stuff. Not the stuff of Seabiscuit movies, although I'm a sucker for that, too. LOL I thought the stuff on claiming races was good.

I don't think they can outdo Johnny Carson snippet when he had Patti Barton on. Bill Christine gives a good account of it. Carson asked her if she'd ever gotten in fights with male riders.

Patti related how she and Cliff Thompson got into it coming off the track, and mentioned she grabbed him in the gonads.

"That's the closest you'll ever come to a man," Carson said.

"From what I felt, I'm not sure I had one," Patti said.

Carson did a pencil flip then said: "Welcome to the hard-hitting world of horse racing, folks."

Bring it on, Animal Planet!


I was surprised that Nakatani permitted AP to film him in that light.

[Mineshaft]

This is not necessarily true. In a rush of horses, DRF clockers can miss a few. The few them miss are unofficial yet they are not all 'hidden' They just got missed in a big rush of horses (right after the renovation break probably)

Kristin did nothing wrong and didn't really go out of her way to hide the horse. She worked the horse during regular training hours in front of official DRF clockers, if they missed her work, that's their fault, not hers.

Kristin took a shot that not every private clocker was on the grounds at 4:30 and even if everyone was in their seats with binoculars in hand, they might not have been able to really evaluate this horse's talent even if they were able to actually identify who it was in the first place.

Want to touch on your paragraph that starts off "I have to wonder"

She doesnt' want the 'unofficial' clockers to SEE the work because even if the clocker doesn't have the same time, the private clockers can evaluate the length of stride and tell if they think the horse is good or not. Official clockers get paid by the DRF to just clock times, they are not out there to 'evaluate' talent. Private clockers are trying to evaluate talent and don't care as much what the watch says. Kristin didn't want professional private clockers to see the horse because those pairs of eyes are experts at evaluating the actual talent of the racehorse. THIS is what she was leery of imo.





Thank you

[jognlope]

I'm not watching because of those fake calls.

[bdownes]

I didn't catch the show (bad hotel cable).

A trainer has one obligation when working a horse. To tell the gap person (or call up to the clockers booth) the name of the horse and the distance.

[FenceBored]

I didn't catch the show (bad hotel cable).

A trainer has one obligation when working a horse. To tell the gap person (or call up to the clockers booth) the name of the horse and the distance.

And then start the 1/2 mile work at the 5f pole to screw with the timing. :lol:

[Brogan]

So after all the back and forth, I have one question:

In order to avoid being timed by the private clockers and other trainers, all you need to do is get up early and when you want everyone to see your work, you go at 6:30?

And I'll throw in one statement:

Call it clever editing, call it reality show scripting, call it naivete...Kristin Mulhall sounded like she was attempting to deceive SOMEONE. And that's just plain 'ole dumb public relations.

[Imriledup]

So after all the back and forth, I have one question:

In order to avoid being timed by the private clockers and other trainers, all you need to do is get up early and when you want everyone to see your work, you go at 6:30?

And I'll throw in one statement:

Call it clever editing, call it reality show scripting, call it naivete...Kristin Mulhall sounded like she was attempting to deceive SOMEONE. And that's just plain 'ole dumb public relations.

If you work at 6:30 everyone will see it.

You would really have to do some fancy footwork to avoid being timed by no one.

She was not attempting to deceive anyone. The track opens for training at 4:30, she was the first one out there to train. Who was she trying to deceive?

[joanied]

Originally Posted by Mineshaft

Where the hell do you race? Yellowstone Downs?




Hey now...That's the big :eek: time track around here:lol: ... we usually go once during their meet...just to support the place and the very small time trainers...it's a hoot there...turns are so tight the jocks are scared to death...I can see them all pull up just a bit as they approach it...and talk about handicapping...fuhgetaboutit...you can't:D ...my brother plays the leading trainers & riders....my husband closes his eyes and picks one from the program...my sister in law picks the pretty horse, my mom (age 97) picks hunches...me...I play all the longshots...like I said, it's a hoot...but it's the only game in town:)

[boomman]

Tell that to the people who are now convinced the game is fixed.

Tom: Hanover and guys like him will never get that the public thinks that the races are fixed already and comments like that just "fuel the fire".....and as for you Hanover-"My claiming to be in the game?????" 32 years here, and a current director of racing..I'll GUARANTEE you I knew exactly what she was talking about!:bang:

Boomer

[Imriledup]

People who think the game is fixed or shady won't be convinced otherwise. After all, they have their own wonderful built in excuse as to why they lose, who are we to rob them of that?

[boomman]

People who think the game is fixed or shady won't be convinced otherwise. After all, they have their own wonderful built in excuse as to why they lose, who are we to rob them of that?

Probably true, but I'm going to do everything in my power to make things as clean as humanly possible at my track and to try and somewhat restore the public's confidence in horse racing........Difficult? Yes Impossible? No

Boomer

[Black Ruby]

Probably true, but I'm going to do everything in my power to make things as clean as humanly possible at my track and to try and somewhat restore the public's confidence in horse racing........Difficult? Yes Impossible? No

Boomer
Well, I certainly hope you're successful, but I fear you're swimming against the tide here. You've got trainers who have their 25th med positive yet 18 months later the case is still on the table, and the trainer hasn't missed a day. That doesn't instill confidence. When a positive is upheld, the moneys are redistributed to the owners, trainers, and jocks, but those of us who had tickets that should have been winners are just SOL. That doesn't instill confidence, and that's a problem that no one seems willing to discuss.

[Imriledup]

Well, I certainly hope you're successful, but I fear you're swimming against the tide here. You've got trainers who have their 25th med positive yet 18 months later the case is still on the table, and the trainer hasn't missed a day. That doesn't instill confidence. When a positive is upheld, the moneys are redistributed to the owners, trainers, and jocks, but those of us who had tickets that should have been winners are just SOL. That doesn't instill confidence, and that's a problem that no one seems willing to discuss.

http://www.keepandshare.com/graphics/printable/cards/sympathy_just_because/webpage/sweep.under.rug.ecard_sm.jpg

[CTgeorge]

When a positive is upheld, the moneys are redistributed to the owners, trainers, and jocks, but those of us who had tickets that should have been winners are just SOL. That doesn't instill confidence, and that's a problem that no one seems willing to discuss.

I have heard it discussed, and dropped because it simply would not be practical, or even possible, for tracks to try and redistribute bets. Do you expect winning bettors to voluntarily return to the track and give their money back? Months after the race? Even with ADW sites that could debit and credit accounts, anyone who won a big bet in a race that was being reviewed could simply cancel the account and never pay back the money.

[Black Ruby]

I have heard it discussed, and dropped because it simply would not be practical, or even possible, for tracks to try and redistribute bets. Do you expect winning bettors to voluntarily return to the track and give their money back? Months after the race? Even with ADW sites that could debit and credit accounts, anyone who won a big bet in a race that was being reviewed could simply cancel the account and never pay back the money.

No, not at all. But with proof, from the ADW or if you held onto your tickets, I certainly think the offending trainers should be held liable for it. I think that would be the biggest deterrent there could be.

[Imriledup]

No, not at all. But with proof, from the ADW or if you held onto your tickets, I certainly think the offending trainers should be held liable for it. I think that would be the biggest deterrent there could be.

I agree, a bettor should be able to take legal action. After all, in the real world, if someone cheats you out of money and you can prove it, you can take them to court and win.

[CTgeorge]

No, not at all. But with proof, from the ADW or if you held onto your tickets, I certainly think the offending trainers should be held liable for it. I think that would be the biggest deterrent there could be.

I agree with you in principle. The offending party should pay. However, what if you have over $100,000 bet on a race with a purse of say $20,000. Is any trainer, even the most honest trainer out there (remember, even Larry Jones got dinged last year), going to take a risk that he might be on the hook for that much money? You would have to buy insurance to cover the probability that you would be responsible for paying off the bettors.

Again, I wish there was a way that it could be done. But I just don't see it.

[Black Ruby]

I realize it's problematic, but there needs to be a solution. Why should I play the ponies when there's no redress if I'm cheated. Try telling someone you're introducing to the sport "okay, if it turns out that one of the trainers in the race cheated, the money is going to be made right to the owners, trainers, and jockeys, but not to you even if you're out more money than they are". Try explaining to someone why the horse that ran third didn't really run third, because he's part of an entry, and that horses are coupled in an attempt to keep the owners/trainers from cheating and see how many want to play the ponies.

I'm just saying that our friend here wanted to right the wrongs of racing, and I'm not sure some of them can be righted, which is a major problem if you want to attract new people when there are so many other easily accessible forms of entertainment.

[Mineshaft]

I didn't catch the show (bad hotel cable).

A trainer has one obligation when working a horse. To tell the gap person (or call up to the clockers booth) the name of the horse and the distance.







Someone else that gets it also..

[Mineshaft]

If you work at 6:30 everyone will see it.

You would really have to do some fancy footwork to avoid being timed by no one.

She was not attempting to deceive anyone. The track opens for training at 4:30, she was the first one out there to train. Who was she trying to deceive?






Another person that gets it....

[Mineshaft]

Tom: Hanover and guys like him will never get that the public thinks that the races are fixed already and comments like that just "fuel the fire".....and as for you Hanover-"My claiming to be in the game?????" 32 years here, and a current director of racing..I'll GUARANTEE you I knew exactly what she was talking about!:bang:

Boomer





Ok Boomer answer me this:


At your track if you work a horse does it have to be an official work? Or can you just work a horse because it needs a work and not have to get it published?

[BUD]

I skipped most--I watched the show-My kids were saying that almost everyone they know watches and loves the show- Dubbed Trevor What the hell do they care--The Love the animal the danger and the Money--We can trash it and the school age kids will watch it.

[Brogan]

Another person that gets it....

This is really symptomatic of many of the troubles in racing. You're not seeing what the problem is.

Of course trainers would like nothing better than to have others not see their good horses work. Of course trainers would like nothing better than having a second or two shaved off off the actual time of workouts of their rats. Of course, all manner of monkey business has gone on in the past and continues to go on today to that end.

What the industry doesn't need is someone going on a national tv show and talking about anything that could be interpreted as underhanded.

Any perception of something being even a little shady just adds to the negative image that racing has developed.

[DSB]

This is really symptomatic of many of the troubles in racing. You're not seeing what the problem is.

Of course trainers would like nothing better than to have others not see their good horses work. Of course trainers would like nothing better than having a second or two shaved off off the actual time of workouts of their rats. Of course, all manner of monkey business has gone on in the past and continues to go on today to that end.

What the industry doesn't need is someone going on a national tv show and talking about anything that could be interpreted as underhanded.

Any perception of something being even a little shady just adds to the negative image that racing has developed.

Finally somebody who gets it.

[Imriledup]

This is really symptomatic of many of the troubles in racing. You're not seeing what the problem is.

Of course trainers would like nothing better than to have others not see their good horses work. Of course trainers would like nothing better than having a second or two shaved off off the actual time of workouts of their rats. Of course, all manner of monkey business has gone on in the past and continues to go on today to that end.

What the industry doesn't need is someone going on a national tv show and talking about anything that could be interpreted as underhanded.

Any perception of something being even a little shady just adds to the negative image that racing has developed.

How could it be interpreted as underhanded? Underhanded would mean she was trying to work the horse when the track was actually closed for official training, this wasn't the case.

[Mineshaft]

Finally somebody who gets it.






How many horses worked today but didnt get an official published work?




Answer: Hundreds of them..

[JustRalph]

When will Animal Planet show the replay?

No replay, Corey Nakatani beat the shit out of the camera guy and took the footage after it aired.........

[Mineshaft]

No replay, Corey Nakatani beat the shit out of the camera guy and took the footage after it aired.........





Thats too funny...

[Brogan]

How many horses worked today but didnt get an official published work?

Answer: Hundreds of them..

Question: What does that mean for the credibility of the game?

Answer: Its harmful.

Wake up! Its not so much what we all know goes on, its about what the public perceives goes on.

[Mineshaft]

Question: What does that mean for the credibility of the game?

Answer: Its harmful.

Wake up! Its not so much what we all know goes on, its about what the public perceives goes on.




Im not trying to make a point on the credibility of the game. Im trying to make a point that not all horses who work out get those works published. There is no law in effect that says everytime you work your horse you have to get it published. That is not deceiving the public. And its not harmful.


Why do you insist that every work be published? After a few races you should be able to know what time you horses usually work in so why do we need to get them published?

[ddog]

I didn't catch the show (bad hotel cable).

A trainer has one obligation when working a horse. To tell the gap person (or call up to the clockers booth) the name of the horse and the distance.


Uh, if you want to make this a tad more accurate , we should rephrase it just a bit......


To tell the gap person (or call up to the clockers booth) the(A) name of the(A) horse and the(A) distance.


Don't ask how I know.
SOme people have actually been/talked/cashed-with clockers.
:D

[CTgeorge]

If Kristin Mulhall really wanted to "hide" her workout, couldn't she have shipped her horse to San Luis Rey Downs where they have official clockers and, I assume, very few people watching workouts.

I really hope we can move on from this non-issue and talk about some other aspects of the show.

By the way, for those more in the know, how accurate are the steward's meetings they show? I always assumed they were much more formal.

[ezrabrooks]

Works? I was at the Quarter Horse races, and heard two guys talking about a certain runner in the next race. The horse hadn't been out in quite a while, and one of the guys asked why. He other guy said, "I dunno, but they have been matching him on the farm for the last month"...he's quick. Needless to say he day lighted the field.

Ez

[Brogan]

Im not trying to make a point on the credibility of the game. Im trying to make a point that not all horses who work out get those works published. There is no law in effect that says everytime you work your horse you have to get it published. That is not deceiving the public. And its not harmful.

Why do you insist that every work be published? After a few races you should be able to know what time you horses usually work in so why do we need to get them published?

Not publishing every work is not deceiving the public? You're deceiving yourself now.

[Imriledup]

If Kristin Mulhall really wanted to "hide" her workout, couldn't she have shipped her horse to San Luis Rey Downs where they have official clockers and, I assume, very few people watching workouts.

I really hope we can move on from this non-issue and talk about some other aspects of the show.

By the way, for those more in the know, how accurate are the steward's meetings they show? I always assumed they were much more formal.


Good pt, thee's no one watching works at SLR other than maybe some of the trainers who are stabled there.

[Imriledup]

Not publishing every work is not deceiving the public? You're deceiving yourself now.
The reason that the public is not being deceived is because the work that was missed by the association clockers was missed for everyone. You are on the same playing field as your competition, neither of you has the work at your disposal to use in your handicapping. Its the same as if neither of you knew a certain horse got throat surgery, that's not published in the form, you and your competition doesn't have that info, so its no harm no foul. This game is about having information that your competition does not have and with these 'unpublished works' this is info that is not known in the mainstream and therefore, doesn't hurt you or your chances to be a successful winning player.



As far as 'deception' goes, the attempt to deceive this is not deception because the information that is 'missed' is not being missed with the express purpose to use that information in a way to profit. The Assn clockers just miss some works, there are too many horses all at once and only a few clockers, a few will slip thru the cracks. Those that slip thru the cracks are slipping thru for everyone. Deception would be clockers who actually see the workouts and yet don't publish them so they can benefit financially at the windows, or benefit in some other way.



Deception to me, means a concious effort to hide information and use it for your own benefit. Like i said in an earlier post, these Assn clockers are being paid to time horses, not to 'evaluate' their talent.

[Brogan]

The reason that the public is not being deceived is because the work that was missed by the association clockers was missed for everyone. You are on the same playing field as your competition, neither of you has the work at your disposal to use in your handicapping. Its the same as if neither of you knew a certain horse got throat surgery, that's not published in the form, you and your competition doesn't have that info, so its no harm no foul. This game is about having information that your competition does not have and with these 'unpublished works' this is info that is not known in the mainstream and therefore, doesn't hurt you or your chances to be a successful winning player.

As far as 'deception' goes, the attempt to deceive this is not deception because the information that is 'missed' is not being missed with the express purpose to use that information in a way to profit. The Assn clockers just miss some works, there are too many horses all at once and only a few clockers, a few will slip thru the cracks. Those that slip thru the cracks are slipping thru for everyone. Deception would be clockers who actually see the workouts and yet don't publish them so they can benefit financially at the windows, or benefit in some other way.

Deception to me, means a concious effort to hide information and use it for your own benefit. Like i said in an earlier post, these Assn clockers are being paid to time horses, not to 'evaluate' their talent.

You're contradicting yourself within the same sentence. Obviously SOMEONE has the info. What's to stop the trainer, the exercise boy/jockey, the jock's agent, the in-the-know owner and anyone they tout from placing a large wager on the basis of an unpublished work?

[Hanover1]

Good pt, thee's no one watching works at SLR other than maybe some of the trainers who are stabled there.
Ya dont suppose the horse would stand out at SLR?? A really bad idea folks.....

[Imriledup]

You're contradicting yourself within the same sentence. Obviously SOMEONE has the info. What's to stop the trainer, the exercise boy/jockey, the jock's agent, the in-the-know owner and anyone they tout from placing a large wager on the basis of an unpublished work?

Im not contradicting myself, that's why i used the word 'mainstream'. People inside the game are always going to have more info than people outside the game, i'm just talking about info that's readily available to John Q Public.

There is nothing from stopping trainers or other insiders from betting on what they know, but that's just part of the game. I was talking about information that every horseplayer has access to and those missed works are missed for everyone in the mainstream.

[Imriledup]

Ya dont suppose the horse would stand out at SLR?? A really bad idea folks.....

Kristin would stand out at SLR because she's not stabled there, she would have to call a friend of hers to accept the horse when it shipped in and it would actually be more trouble than its worth.

People inside SLR would want to know 'what kind of horse is this that it has to ship here to work"

[ddog]

Im not contradicting myself, that's why i used the word 'mainstream'. People inside the game are always going to have more info than people outside the game, i'm just talking about info that's readily available to John Q Public.

There is nothing from stopping trainers or other insiders from betting on what they know, but that's just part of the game. I was talking about information that every horseplayer has access to and those missed works are missed for everyone in the mainstream.


yep. just a part of the game , kinda like "insider trading", I am sure you are ok with your 401k getting raped due to others inside knowledge.

Right?

Heh, I am not complaining , buy your local owners/trainers a beer or dinner every once in awhile.

It pays!!!!

:D


are trainers/owners/jocks not horse players?

[Mineshaft]

For the last time all horses that work DO NOT HAVE TO GET THAT WORK PUBLISHED. Thats the point im trying to make. Theres not a law saying all works have to be published. If there is please find that law for me.


What if Mulhall didnt get a work for that horse and the horse aired by 10? Would that be deceiving the public?

[Mineshaft]

Not publishing every work is not deceiving the public? You're deceiving yourself now.





You just dont get it? Do you have a clue what the rules are in racing? Are you an owner or trainer or neither?

[thespaah]

They just refuse to get rid of the fake and staged racecalls by Trevor Denman. I watched the show yesterday with someone who's not a serious racing fan and even THEY were laughing at how idiotic this was. Just lets hear the real racecall. They treat the viewers like they are total buffoons. Just tell us once that Chantal is riding Bully Cubed and that's all we need to know, we don't need to hear that 'Chantal is taking the lead". Lets just hear the real call, it cheapens the show with these fake calls.
That's why I won't watch that show. There is no reason to dub in after calls using the riders names.
The producers should have just done what they could to inform the viewers which horse each featured rider was piloting.

[thespaah]

I had a friend who worked in the buisness. This is what he told me about works.
Newsflash. Trainers are not entirely honest with clockers all the time.

[DSB]

You just dont get it? Do you have a clue what the rules are in racing? Are you an owner or trainer or neither?

I am an owner and trainer, and it is you who don't have a clue of what the rules of racing are, that is, at virtually every major racetrack.

[thespaah]

okay, now I get it. however, it should be noted that this definition is yours, and nothing I've ever heard on the racetrack before....

so, according to you, Ms. Mulhall didn't mind her horse's work being clocked, so long as it wasn't clocked by unofficial clockers.

I have to wonder.... would the unofficial clockers have gotten a different time than the official clocker? because if all clockers - both official and unofficial - got the same time, why would it matter if the "unofficial" clockers saw it or not?

you know, this whole discussion has become rather silly. If you've spent any time on the backstretch of a racetrack, you'd know that the observation stands aren't frequented by "unofficial clockers" or "trainers looking to steal a horse" as much as they are by horsemen throwing the bull about the local baseball team or something else as irrelevant to racing.

most claims are made by form, the reputation of the trainer being claimed from, and observation of races, pure and simple. some people don't even go to the paddock to check out a claim, so why would they fret about how a horse looks in the morning?

add to that the fact that it is extremely difficult to identify any one particular horse that's on the track for 10 mins in a sea of other horses, and you'd realize how stupid this sounds to a horseman.

Finally, trying to hide a work is against the rules of most tracks. A rider is required to report the name of the horse, the distance of the work, and the name of the trainer to the clocker when they enter the track. Any infractions are supposed to be reported to the stewards, although admittedly they rarely are.

There is a reason for these requirements. Hiding a workout is considered an attempt to deceive the betting public, and because bettors pay all the freight in this game, it is a good rule. Workouts are part of the horse's record and something many bettors rely on. They should be full, honest and accurate.

Are some workouts hidden? Sure. And some trainers use illegal drugs, some riders stiff horses, and some horses are raced without being properly trained.

That doesn't make any of it right.

What you define as an "unofficial workout" is a euphemism for "hiding a workout".

There is no provision for doing so, and if I am wrong, please show me proof.
Why on earth are the riders responsible for reporting horse identities? Should that not be the responsibility of the trainers?

[Brogan]

Why on earth are the riders responsible for reporting horse identities? Should that not be the responsibility of the trainers?
Its a matter of convenience...the rider passes by the clocker's stand.

There's not a hard and fast rule about who passes on the information. Many a time, the trainer will just go to the clocker's stand themselves.

[Brogan]

You just dont get it? Do you have a clue what the rules are in racing? Are you an owner or trainer or neither?
Who me? I"m a drunken hot walker that wakes up in some empty stall every morning.

So is it your opinion that to understand rules of racing you need to be a trainer or owner?

Gotta tell ya, the internet connection in Barn C really sucks too.

[Imriledup]

yep. just a part of the game , kinda like "insider trading", I am sure you are ok with your 401k getting raped due to others inside knowledge.

Right?

Heh, I am not complaining , buy your local owners/trainers a beer or dinner every once in awhile.

It pays!!!!

:D


are trainers/owners/jocks not horse players?


But that has nothing to do with your contention that works that are honestly missed by assn clockers is someone deceiving the public. Not every speck of information gets published in the DRF, missing works is just one of those things that doesn't get published. Its not deceiving anyone, its just a magazine that only has so many employees, not every speck of data is going to get down there in print.

Its understood that owners, trainers and jocks and other insiders are going to be privy to more info that some "Joe" Who's just picking up a DRF at his local newsstand.

[Mineshaft]

I am an owner and trainer, and it is you who don't have a clue of what the rules of racing are, that is, at virtually every major racetrack.






Like i said earlier in this thread, in my state every work does not have to be published. Im sure other states are the same way. Now there may be a couple of tracks that require all works to be published but the majority do not.


"Learn the Game Laddie"

[Mineshaft]

Ok lets settle a dispute between me and DSB. Please name your track or your state and let us know if every work needs to be published. I will start.




Louisiana-You DO NOT have to have every work published.



Nexttttttttttttttt.........

[Imriledup]

Ok lets settle a dispute between me and DSB. Please name your track or your state and let us know if every work needs to be published. I will start.




Louisiana-You DO NOT have to have every work published.



Nexttttttttttttttt.........

I know that not all works are published. In fact, some of the private clockers services will talk about a work that was missed by the DRF clockers and say, "this horse worked this morning and was missed off the official tab....."

[Mineshaft]

I know that not all works are published. In fact, some of the private clockers services will talk about a work that was missed by the DRF clockers and say, "this horse worked this morning and was missed off the official tab....."





Im asking what state or track are you from and what are the rules at that track regarding published works. Thats all i care about now..

[Mineshaft]

I am an owner and trainer, and it is you who don't have a clue of what the rules of racing are, that is, at virtually every major racetrack.





Remind me to never hire you as a trainer..

[Brogan]

Remind me to never hire you as a trainer..

So DSB, next time you go looking for an arrogant know-it-all as an owner, cross Mineshaft off the list.

[Imriledup]

Im asking what state or track are you from and what are the rules at that track regarding published works. Thats all i care about now..

I don't know the rules of each track, you can go on the internet and probably find out that information somewhere.

[Mineshaft]

So DSB, next time you go looking for an arrogant know-it-all as an owner, cross Mineshaft off the list.





Never said i knew it all. But one thing i do know is all works DO NOT have to be published.

[jotb]

Supposely, Kristen worked BULLYBULLYBULLY at 4:30am but does anybody here know exactly what day and month the work took place?

Joe

[Mineshaft]

Supposely, Kristen worked BULLYBULLYBULLY at 4:30am but does anybody here know exactly what day and month the work took place?

Joe





March 20, 2009 was the work and the horse ran March 27, 2009

[DSB]

Ok lets settle a dispute between me and DSB. Please name your track or your state and let us know if every work needs to be published. I will start.




Louisiana-You DO NOT have to have every work published.



Nexttttttttttttttt.........

Okay goober, try this on for size:

Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Delaware.

From the Saratoga condition book: ALL HORSES ENTERING THE TRACK FOR TRAINING SHALL BE IDENTIFIED BY NAME (IF UNNAMED BY BREEDING), TYPE OF WORKOUT, DISTANCE AND NAME OF TRAINER. FAILURE TO REPORT THIS INFORMATION TO THE GAP ATTENDANT WILL BE REFERRED TO THE STEWARDS.

From the Presque Isle condition book: Trainers are responsible for notifying the clocker when working a horse. The clocker must be notified of the distance which the horse will work, and the correct spelling of the horse's name.

Maryland and Delaware have similar notices in their condition books.

NJ does not, but the rule is well known.

This morning, I collared the chief clocker at Monmouth and asked him about declaring a work "unofficial" and having it left off the publication list.

He laughed before turning and walking away, shaking his head.

I guess he had heard it all now.

Two things that need to be mentioned:

1. Nobody who races at major tracks take Louisiana racing seriously. If La. allows open fraud on the betting public, it really isn't that surprising, considering the source. Must be a "Napoleonic Code" thing.

2. Shove that "Learn the game laddie" slogan of yours up your ass. It's more than just a little likely that I've forgotten more about this game than you will ever know.

[illinoisbred]

Nobody takes Louisiana racing seriously ? Tell that to Steve Asmussen,Tom Amoss,Bret Calhoun,Larry Jones,Mark Frostad,Mark Casse,Michael Stidham,Neil Howard and so many more.

[Hanover1]

Okay goober, try this on for size:

Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Delaware.

From the Saratoga condition book: ALL HORSES ENTERING THE TRACK FOR TRAINING SHALL BE IDENTIFIED BY NAME (IF UNNAMED BY BREEDING), TYPE OF WORKOUT, DISTANCE AND NAME OF TRAINER. FAILURE TO REPORT THIS INFORMATION TO THE GAP ATTENDANT WILL BE REFERRED TO THE STEWARDS.

From the Presque Isle condition book: Trainers are responsible for notifying the clocker when working a horse. The clocker must be notified of the distance which the horse will work, and the correct spelling of the horse's name.

Maryland and Delaware have similar notices in their condition books.

NJ does not, but the rule is well known.

This morning, I collared the chief clocker at Monmouth and asked him about declaring a work "unofficial" and having it left off the publication list.

He laughed before turning and walking away, shaking his head.

I guess he had heard it all now.

Two things that need to be mentioned:

1. Nobody who races at major tracks take Louisiana racing seriously. If La. allows open fraud on the betting public, it really isn't that surprising, considering the source. Must be a "Napoleonic Code" thing.

2. Shove that "Learn the game laddie" slogan of yours up your ass. It's more than just a little likely that I've forgotten more about this game than you will ever know.
You should agree to dis-agree imo. The rules you quote do exist, but lets get real...if I want to open my horses pipes a bit at a given distance, I can have rider back the horse halfway around the racetrack if I choose, and the clocker may give me the option of declaring just how far I did go...Why is that any different from lack of posted works?? You still read a canned response from the trainer/clocker, and can be interpreted as mis-information. Rather than attack a fellow poster, perhaps examine that you both are correct in certain areas, but cannot come to a meeting of the minds. (I refuse, however, to shove this post up my.......).

[DSB]

Nobody takes Louisiana racing seriously ? Tell that to Steve Asmussen,Tom Amoss,Bret Calhoun,Larry Jones,Mark Frostad,Mark Casse,Michael Stidham,Neil Howard and so many more.

Yeah, these are the guys who pick off the bloated stakes schedule fueled by slot revenues....

they don't just do it in Louisiana, they do it everywhere.... hardly indicative of the typical La. horseman, and the races they run in are hardly indicative of the typical Louisiana race....

[illinoisbred]

William Mott,Bob Baffert,Doug O'Neil,Chris Block,Tom Proctor,D.Wayne Lukas{Grindstone launched his Derby Trail there},Michael Pino,Patrick Mouton,William Badgett,Donnie Von Hemel,and the beat goes on.I would love to be a trainer and open up the barn door every morning to the stock these people see every morning!

[Mineshaft]

Okay goober, try this on for size:

Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Delaware.

From the Saratoga condition book: ALL HORSES ENTERING THE TRACK FOR TRAINING SHALL BE IDENTIFIED BY NAME (IF UNNAMED BY BREEDING), TYPE OF WORKOUT, DISTANCE AND NAME OF TRAINER. FAILURE TO REPORT THIS INFORMATION TO THE GAP ATTENDANT WILL BE REFERRED TO THE STEWARDS.

From the Presque Isle condition book: Trainers are responsible for notifying the clocker when working a horse. The clocker must be notified of the distance which the horse will work, and the correct spelling of the horse's name.

Maryland and Delaware have similar notices in their condition books.

NJ does not, but the rule is well known.

This morning, I collared the chief clocker at Monmouth and asked him about declaring a work "unofficial" and having it left off the publication list.

He laughed before turning and walking away, shaking his head.

I guess he had heard it all now.

Two things that need to be mentioned:

1. Nobody who races at major tracks take Louisiana racing seriously. If La. allows open fraud on the betting public, it really isn't that surprising, considering the source. Must be a "Napoleonic Code" thing.

2. Shove that "Learn the game laddie" slogan of yours up your ass. It's more than just a little likely that I've forgotten more about this game than you will ever know.





Hey goober that is probably in every condition book in America. Its to cover the tracks ass. They have that in there when you want an official work.

Now if i want to get a 3 furlong work for my horse who is coming off a 6 month layoff and this is his 1st work back you are telling me it has to be an official(published) work reported to the clocker. Bullshitttttttt... If i dont want it published i dont fill the card out and turn it in simple as that. And i doubt every clocker in America will turn me in. They could care fawkin less. All they care about is when the track closes so they can get the hell out of there.



5 things:


1-The clocker at Monmouth is probably a clown like you. He probably enforces every rule in the business.

2-Who the hell cares about Monmouth? With 6 horse fields that racing is not bettable. You race 4 months out the year whoopty freakin doo.

3-Your on here posting at 11:00 am why arent u at the track? Did your 2 horses just walk today?

4-At least Louisiana is one of a few states that has year round racing and the lowest workmans compensation in the industry.

5-"Learn the Game Laddie"

[DSB]

You should agree to dis-agree imo. The rules you quote do exist, but lets get real...if I want to open my horses pipes a bit at a given distance, I can have rider back the horse halfway around the racetrack if I choose, and the clocker may give me the option of declaring just how far I did go...Why is that any different from lack of posted works?? You still read a canned response from the trainer/clocker, and can be interpreted as mis-information. Rather than attack a fellow poster, perhaps examine that you both are correct in certain areas, but cannot come to a meeting of the minds. (I refuse, however, to shove this post up my.......).


Because the argument here is one of rules. The other guy keeps insisting that it's within the rules to have a horse work "unofficially" and keep it unpublished.

That is NOT within the rules.

Whether or not it is common practice to circumvent the rules is totally irrelevant.

The whole reason for publishing workouts is in order to give the betting public a more complete picture, as it compliments the past performances.

If it were within the rules to withold this information at will, why even bother to publish works at all? I gave an earlier example wherein a trainer could declare a :46 work "unofficial" and come back the next week with a :54 work and declare that official.

What the hell good are works if that sort of nonsense was accepted practice?

Hence, the laughter from the Monmouth clocker. He obviously could not believe the stupidity of the question.

[DSB]

Hey goober that is probably in every condition book in America. Its to cover the tracks ass. They have that in there when you want an official work.

Now if i want to get a 3 furlong work for my horse who is coming off a 6 month layoff and this is his 1st work back you are telling me it has to be an official(published) work reported to the clocker. Bullshitttttttt... If i dont want it published i dont fill the card out and turn it in simple as that. And i doubt every clocker in America will turn me in. They could care fawkin less. All they care about is when the track closes so they can get the hell out of there.



5 things:


1-The clocker at Monmouth is probably a clown like you. He probably enforces every rule in the business.

2-Who the hell cares about Monmouth? With 6 horse fields that racing is not bettable. You race 4 months out the year whoopty freakin doo.

3-Your on here posting at 11:00 am why arent u at the track? Did your 2 horses just walk today?

4-At least Louisiana is one of a few states that has year round racing and the lowest workmans compensation in the industry.

5-"Learn the Game Laddie"

Card? Must be a mudbug downs thing. Doesn't exist at real racetracks.

If your horse works fast enough to be deemed publishable, it is supposed to be published. whether the horse has been off 6 months or 6 years.

Ummm.. we start at 5:30 a.m. here..... at most real racetracks, horses are done up and fed at 10 a.m. (but I guess you wouldn't know that)

Take slots away from your tracks and you'd be racing quarter horses for $1,000 based on your handles.....

"wise up goober"

[illinoisbred]

Card? Must be a mudbug downs thing. Doesn't exist at real racetracks.

If your horse works fast enough to be deemed publishable, it is supposed to be published. whether the horse has been off 6 months or 6 years.

Ummm.. we start at 5:30 a.m. here..... at most real racetracks, horses are done up and fed at 10 a.m. (but I guess you wouldn't know that)

Take slots away from your tracks and you'd be racing quarter horses for $1,000 based on your handles.....

"wise up goober"
Probably right about the Quarter Horse thing.Since 1982 when I spent the winter there the track has had notorious and inept owners Starting with Joe Dorngiac{spelling?} and his trainer son.If they didn't like you ,you didn't get stalls.1982 was the year they tried to launch their own Future Hope on the Derby Trail.Lets see,then came Louis Roussel III.I've never seen such a dumbfounded fellow ,a true enigma to mankind.Good fortune and fortunes dropped 2 good horsesin his lap,Risen Star and Recapturetheglory.Then came the Krantz family,they almost ran it into the ground!Currently,CDI with slots and video poker and 1/2 a chance to make it.

[illinoisbred]

Of course, I'm refering to Fair Grounds only.

[ddog]

But that has nothing to do with your contention that works that are honestly missed by assn clockers is someone deceiving the public. Not every speck of information gets published in the DRF, missing works is just one of those things that doesn't get published. Its not deceiving anyone, its just a magazine that only has so many employees, not every speck of data is going to get down there in print.

Its understood that owners, trainers and jocks and other insiders are going to be privy to more info that some "Joe" Who's just picking up a DRF at his local newsstand.


I am not contending that they are honestly missing works, although that has to happen.

I am contending that there ARE works that are intended to be missed/misreported/etc.

Now, that is fraud, no matter the rule.
yes, it's a part of the "game", but that doesn't make it not fraud.

If someone hooks you up "just a common joe" by means of false and misleading prospectus or other scam and thus steals your "avg joe" money, would that be just part of the "game" to you or would you expect remedy?

If no remedy, "it's just part of the game" would you go back to that same game again with new money?

If that "game" had the means to fix that "reporting problem" in the official realm in which they exist(on track works), would you not expect efforts in that direction before you went back in with new money?

[jotb]

March 20, 2009 was the work and the horse ran March 27, 2009

That's what I figured. Did they get the work on the other horse that went in company? Bully worked 6.0F in 115.20. None of the other 17 horses that worked at 6.0F that morning were Kristen's. She did work two fillies that morning but they both went 3/8ths in 38.80 and both were 2yo fillies.

Were we supposed to believe that John Sadler was out there 4:30am that morning? I don't buy it at all. They kept going back and forth with the camera (from the horses to Sadler) as if he might be checking the horse out. The horses are on the track and Chantel says to Kristen "He can't really make us out cause were in the dark". Kristen says "yeah". Who's he Chantel? Then Kristen goes on to say "and we're both wearing black" Meanwhile the camera keeps going back to Sadler. After the work is over the camera goes back on Sadler and he says " That's it, ok we're on the move" as if he watched the horse work. To boot John Sadler didn't even work a horse that morning. 105 horses worked and not one of them were his but he was there at 4:30 that morning.

The day of the race when Bully ran it was race #1. Sadler drops a slip but what day was this on? It couldn't be the 8th race as they say because that was a grade 3. So, for certain it has to be another day. Actually the only claim was in the 5th that day. They made it seem like there was a claim in Bully's race because Heather comes out and places a tag on the number 2 but there was no claim in that race. So, I take it that it happened on another day. Meanwhile, all this time that Bully's running the camera is constantly going back to Sadler as if he had an interest in Bully's race. Unless they filmed him that day watching the 2nd race which he won. Hey maybe he cashed in on the daily Double.

Joe

[JustRalph]

anybody know how Bully has done since?

[CTgeorge]

You just summed up all of the problems I have with the show.


That's what I figured. Did they get the work on the other horse that went in company? Bully worked 6.0F in 115.20. None of the other 17 horses that worked at 6.0F that morning were Kristen's. She did work two fillies that morning but they both went 3/8ths in 38.80 and both were 2yo fillies.

Were we supposed to believe that John Sadler was out there 4:30am that morning? I don't buy it at all. They kept going back and forth with the camera (from the horses to Sadler) as if he might be checking the horse out. The horses are on the track and Chantel says to Kristen "He can't really make us out cause were in the dark". Kristen says "yeah". Who's he Chantel? Then Kristen goes on to say "and we're both wearing black" Meanwhile the camera keeps going back to Sadler. After the work is over the camera goes back on Sadler and he says " That's it, ok we're on the move" as if he watched the horse work. To boot John Sadler didn't even work a horse that morning. 105 horses worked and not one of them were his but he was there at 4:30 that morning.

The day of the race when Bully ran it was race #1. Sadler drops a slip but what day was this on? It couldn't be the 8th race as they say because that was a grade 3. So, for certain it has to be another day. Actually the only claim was in the 5th that day. They made it seem like there was a claim in Bully's race because Heather comes out and places a tag on the number 2 but there was no claim in that race. So, I take it that it happened on another day. Meanwhile, all this time that Bully's running the camera is constantly going back to Sadler as if he had an interest in Bully's race. Unless they filmed him that day watching the 2nd race which he won. Hey maybe he cashed in on the daily Double.

Joe

[Mineshaft]

anybody know how Bully has done since?





Might have to pull the PP's for the horse but do i want to waste $5

[Imriledup]

Awesome detective work Jotb.


Animal Planet doesn't realize that we don't want to see stuff like that.

All reality shows do this stuff, they lead you down a path that isn't there, never was there and never will be there.

[jotb]

anybody know how Bully has done since?

Bully has run back twice after the maiden win. His 2nd start came on 6/14/09 in a SA24000nw2l at 7.0F (for horses which broke their maidens for 40k or less and which have never won two races) and he finished 2nd beat 1.75L. His next race was on 7/11/09 in a SA29000nw2l at 6.5F (same condition) and he finished 4th beat 4.25L. Both races were at Hollywood Park and both races the jockey was Tyler Baze. Chantel had left and went back to Woodbine.

Joe

[DanG]

Animal Planet doesn't realize that we don't want to see stuff like that.

All reality shows do this stuff, they lead you down a path that isn't there, never was there and never will be there.
It never claimed to be a documentary…its television striving for advertising revenue with a sport that is on life support in terms of national exposure.

Unrelated to your post; I wish our games future all the best when the people who pay the closest attention are hell bent on finding fault with a rare attempt at filming our game.

Why Animal Planet isn’t bombarded with positive feedback from the people who claim to love our game is just beyond me. Inaccuracies / a dubbed call so the non-racing fan can follow the story line…so what and I just don’t follow the logic of that (imo) short sighted approach.

We need more “reality shows” about us / more TVG-HRTV / more ESPN racing specials / more Kenny Mayne teaching kids how to read the form…not less. If you don’t care for it…so be it, but I fail to see the downside in sending off some e-mail to animal planet in support of a show many advertisers wouldn’t touch given our sports national reputation. I painfully realize our sport is filled with the provincial racing fan that won’t publicly support anything outside there own backyard, but for life of me…I just don’t see the downside in even token support.

[boomman]

Ok Boomer answer me this:


At your track if you work a horse does it have to be an official work? Or can you just work a horse because it needs a work and not have to get it published?

Mine: Didn't see your question earlier-EVERY work at our track is a published work. NO EXCEPTIONS and no works in "the dark".....................


Boomer

[Mineshaft]

Mine: Didn't see your question earlier-EVERY work at our track is a published work. NO EXCEPTIONS and no works in "the dark".....................


Boomer




What track?

[Mineshaft]

Looking at the form for Monmouth for Saturday the 29th.



There are horses who havent had an official work for a month and a half. So these trainers havent worked there horses? They say every work at Monmouth is published. Well im looking at the form and i beg to differ. You going to tell me Lake hasnt worked this horse at all? He worked the horse he just didnt get it published. Yet all works at Monmouth are published. Yea watever......


3rd race-A.P. Eddie last raced July 19th and no works since

[boomman]

What track?

Yavapai Downs

Boomer

[Hanover1]

Tom: Hanover and guys like him will never get that the public thinks that the races are fixed already and comments like that just "fuel the fire".....and as for you Hanover-"My claiming to be in the game?????" 32 years here, and a current director of racing..I'll GUARANTEE you I knew exactly what she was talking about!:bang:

Boomer
Yeah right, A Director of racing posting a link to an old handicapping book HE wrote? Director of what track sir?? Most directors I have had association with, had much better things to do than hang thousands of posts on public chat boards. If indeed you were EVER a director of racing (which track was that again??) you would be as blind and ignorant of exactly what occurs most mornings on the backside anyways, having spent your hours attending to matters unrelated to how they get ready. Why would you even put any type of negative spin on this issue if you were indeed a "director"? You cast a shadow as a handicapper (wich does not require a degree of ANY type), who appears to have all the answers. Not some director concerned about anyones negative views on racing. Instead you come on here and claim to know that things are crooked. I stand by my claim that the matter of hiding a work is normal, and you cannot ever "clean it up". Its done every day, and is in no way intended to deceive anyone, its a matter of protecting an investment. Perhaps you need to buy a horse and have him claimed from you after a MC that he won by 4, because a MC was the only box available when the horse needed a start.

[Hanover1]

Mine: Didn't see your question earlier-EVERY work at our track is a published work. NO EXCEPTIONS and no works in "the dark".....................


Boomer
No works in the dark???? ROFL..... :lol:

[boomman]

Yeah right, A Director of racing posting a link to an old handicapping book HE wrote? Director of what track sir?? Most directors I have had association with, had much better things to do than hang thousands of posts on public chat boards. If indeed you were EVER a director of racing (which track was that again??) you would be as blind and ignorant of exactly what occurs most mornings on the backside anyways, having spent your hours attending to matters unrelated to how they get ready. Why would you even put any type of negative spin on this issue if you were indeed a "director"? You cast a shadow as a handicapper (wich does not require a degree of ANY type), who appears to have all the answers. Not some director concerned about anyones negative views on racing. Instead you come on here and claim to know that things are crooked. I stand by my claim that the matter of hiding a work is normal, and you cannot ever "clean it up". Its done every day, and is in no way intended to deceive anyone, its a matter of protecting an investment. Perhaps you need to buy a horse and have him claimed from you after a MC that he won by 4, because a MC was the only box available when the horse needed a start.

Let me answer your ridiculous post one supposed point at a time: First of all I am a current director of racing:
Wednesday, July 1, 2009

Horseplayer Named Director of Racing at Yavapai (http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/07/horseplayer-named-director-of-racing-at.html)


HANA member and long time horseplayer Greg Boomer Wry has been named Racing Director at the Arizona track. (http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=69830)

Boomer has been in touch with us, and we at HANA look very forward to working with him on the Arizona ADW law and other issues.

As a horseplayer, Wry brings a unique perspective while also serving as racing director. A handicapper tied closely to the racing community, he is a member of the Horseplayers Association of North America (HANA), whose 1,100 members put $41 million through betting windows last year.


Our sincere best wishes to Boomer in his new gig.

Secondly, my books were written prior to my becoming a director of racing and were done so at the request of race fans at Yavapai.

Third: I was the head clocker at Yavapai the last 4 years, and no one gets on our track prior to 6 am when the clockers take their positions upstairs, and I am 100% positive of that!

4th:You would be wrong! I am totally concerned with negative views on racing and continue to post here because I am a horseplayer who became a director of racing.

5th: I am a former horse owner and having a horse claimed away from you is part of the game. Public deception (or the appearance of same) is not!

Boomer

[Hanover1]

Let me answer your ridiculous post one supposed point at a time: First of all I am a current director of racing:
Wednesday, July 1, 2009

Horseplayer Named Director of Racing at Yavapai (http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/07/horseplayer-named-director-of-racing-at.html)


HANA member and long time horseplayer Greg Boomer Wry has been named Racing Director at the Arizona track. (http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=69830)

Boomer has been in touch with us, and we at HANA look very forward to working with him on the Arizona ADW law and other issues.

As a horseplayer, Wry brings a unique perspective while also serving as racing director. A handicapper tied closely to the racing community, he is a member of the Horseplayers Association of North America (HANA), whose 1,100 members put $41 million through betting windows last year.


Our sincere best wishes to Boomer in his new gig.

Secondly, my books were written prior to my becoming a director of racing and were done so at the request of race fans at Yavapai.

Third: I was the head clocker at Yavapai the last 4 years, and no one gets on our track prior to 6 am when the clockers take their positions upstairs, and I am 100% positive of that!

4th:You would be wrong! I am totally concerned with negative views on racing and continue to post here because I am a horseplayer who became a director of racing.

5th: I am a former horse owner and having a horse claimed away from you is part of the game. Public deception (or the appearance of same) is not!

Boomer
You dont think the public has a poor view of an admitted gambler in a position of that nature? Quite amusing in my opinion. Looks like a fox in a henhouse to me. Any novice would say the same-and that is the crowd we all hope the Animal Planet reaches. The novice. Entertainment. Get it? Not posting opinions that somethings amiss in your backyard-Email Animal Planet and explain the snafu is my suggestion. They led the novice down the primrose path with a slanted view. And starting at 6.00 is kinda tardy for the rest of the racing game. Second set is usually tacking up by then most EVERY other track nationwide. (Cant speak for the BUSH tracks...lol)

[boomman]

You dont think the public has a poor view of an admitted gambler in a position of that nature? Quite amusing in my opinion. Looks like a fox in a henhouse to me. Any novice would say the same-and that is the crowd we all hope the Animal Planet reaches. The novice. Entertainment. Get it? Not posting opinions that somethings amiss in your backyard-Email Animal Planet and explain the snafu is my suggestion. They led the novice down the primrose path with a slanted view. And starting at 6.00 is kinda tardy for the rest of the racing game. Second set is usually tacking up by then most EVERY other track nationwide. (Cant speak for the BUSH tracks...lol)

What is amusing is how you are trying to cover tracks after sticking your foot in your mouth on the director of racing comment. My customers are just fine thanks and have commented how happy they are with our team @ Yavapai and we hope to continue to make giant strides towards customer service in the future. And now is the time for you to experience the iggy button (#2 Iggy all time) Goodbye and Good Luck (you'll need it)

:lol:

Boomer

[Hanover1]

Hanover1 - what a total JERK you are.:ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

5th grade must be stressful for you.
35,000 posts here qualifies you to be director of Mudville Downs. Kudos to you!! This "jerk" has taken horses to the triple crown of harness racing and won the Hambletonian-had the 2yr old pacer of the year in 1984 (Walton Hanover)-started in the NJ Derby and worked horses for Calumet. Guess I am a jerk,,,, :lol: (over 35 years on the backside, so I am surely clueless about horses) Check mirror for jerk-you will see man/child with foot in mouth..... :lol: