Is TVG violating California Horse Racing Board Rule 1898?

[andymays]

According to the Roger Stein show www.rogerstein.com this morning (Saturday 8-22). The archived show comes up about 11:00 am PST.

Roger Stein want's to see the TVG tickets(the real tickets from their accounts) as proof of their hits. So does Jerry Jamgotchian.

California Horse Racing Board Rule 1898 offering false information for wagering may come back to bite TVG in the "you know where". According to Stein, Jerry Jamgotchian may force the issue to see what shakes out about what TVG does on the air.


California Horse Racing Board
1010 Hurley Way Suite 300, Sacramento, California 95825
Phone: (916) 263-6000 Fax: (916) 263-6042

California Horse Racing Board
State of California

Display of Rule No. 1898 , "Offering False Information for Wagering."


Rule No. Rule Title

1898 Offering False Information for Wagering.

Rule Text No licensee or employee of a racing association or its concessionaires shall knowingly ordesignedly by false representation attempt to, or persuade, procure, or cause another personto wager on a horse in a race to be run in this State or elsewhere; nor shall any licensee oremployee of a racing association or its concessionaires ask or demand compensation as areward for any racing selection or purported racing prediction provided to any person forwagering purposes. This shall not apply to the vending of newspapers or to other publicationsapproved by the Board.


Does anyone have an opinion as to whether or not this rule may apply to TVG and whether or not they should have to verify their hits as real bets when the claim the hit?

[Fingal]

When I heard the words Jerry Jam & TVG, I started to smile........

That Bulldog ain't gona let go until there's a resolution to the situation.:ThmbUp:

[rastajenk]

TVG personalities are not likely to be licensees or employees of a racing association, so I don't think the rule would apply.

[andymays]

TVG personalities are not likely to be licensees or employees of a racing association, so I don't think the rule would apply.


What about its concessionaires?

[FenceBored]

According to the Roger Stein show www.rogerstein.com (http://www.rogerstein.com) this morning (Saturday 8-22). The archived show comes up about 11:00 am PST.

Roger Stein want's to see the TVG tickets(the real tickets from their accounts) as proof of their hits. So does Jerry Jamgotchian.

California Horse Racing Board Rule 1898 offering false information for wagering may come back to bite TVG in the "you know where". According to Stein, Jerry Jamgotchian may force the issue to see what shakes out about what TVG does on the air.


There's also a CA law or rule forbidding contact between licensees and known touts. That one should have gotten TVG kicked out of every track in CA 10 years ago, and the licenses pulled from countless trainers, jockeys and owners since then.

So, no, this won't amount to anything.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

TVG personalities are not likely to be licensees or employees of a racing association, so I don't think the rule would apply.

Nick Hines, Ron Ellis, Paul LoDuca, jockeys, etc. are all licensees and they all tout the viewers, promote the wagering of their tickets, etc.

If you read the rule and have one ounce of comprehension skills, it's a slam dunk violation.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The CHRB put this "This shall not apply to the vending of newspapers or to other publications approved by the Board." So touts such as the M/L maker who works directly for the track, and so others like DRF and anyone else who is literally a "publisher" uinder the US Copyright office can sell or give picks if approved. This includes TVG and HRTV, who are publishers of information as are all radio and TV, website entities under copyright law.

[andymays]

The CHRB put this "This shall not apply to the vending of newspapers or to other publications approved by the Board." So touts such as the M/L maker who works directly for the track, and so others like DRF and anyone else who is literally a "publisher" uinder the US Copyright office can sell or give picks if approved. This includes TVG and HRTV, who are publishers of information as are all radio and TV, website entities under copyright law.


It will be interesting to see what shakes out! I wonder if TVG will respond on air today.

[rastajenk]

Slam dunk, indeed.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

The CHRB put this "This shall not apply to the vending of newspapers or to other publications approved by the Board." So touts such as the M/L maker who works directly for the track, and so others like DRF and anyone else who is literally a "publisher" uinder the US Copyright office can sell or give picks if approved. This includes TVG and HRTV, who are publishers of information as are all radio and TV, website entities under copyright law.

I have to disagree with you.

TVG is an ADW. They profit from a % of wager and a wagering fee each time they direct someone to "go to our website and play Ron Ellis' ticket by clicking on it".

Someone is directly profiting from wagering thru the touting by a highly regarded licensee.

That is what the rule is/was written for.

[rastajenk]

Are in-house between-race commentators giving their top 3's subject to this rule as well?

[FenceBored]

The CHRB put this "This shall not apply to the vending of newspapers or to other publications approved by the Board." So touts such as the M/L maker who works directly for the track, and so others like DRF and anyone else who is literally a "publisher" uinder the US Copyright office can sell or give picks if approved. This includes TVG and HRTV, who are publishers of information as are all radio and TV, website entities under copyright law.

I think you've nailed it. The 'reputable' touts versus the 'disreputable' touts. TVG is 'reputable' so they aren't violating the rule. Now, if it was some shady guy standing by the entrance to Del Mar hawking his sheet, well that's another story.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

I think you've nailed it. The 'reputable' touts versus the 'disreputable' touts. TVG is 'reputable' so they aren't violating the rule. Now, if it was some shady guy standing by the entrance to Del Mar hawking his sheet, well that's another story.

Huh?

What does the CHRB rule have to do with that?

They are not CHRB licensees or employees of a racing association.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Kenwwod, I'm no lawyer but the rule the way it is posted above specifically states that no lisencee shall persuade or cause anyone to wager on a horse in the state. Ron Ellis definitely has a trainer's liscense therefore is a liscencee. When he picks a horse on TVG does anyone think he is not persuading some people to bet on that horse? Then if TVG posts a proposed P-6 ticket on their website and people bet it blindly they are definitely violating the letter of the rule.

[turfnsport]

ITP, refresh my memory, wasn't there a discussion about Lyons, Hines, etc. awhile back about their Pick 6 tickets, and they HAD to single their horses on their tickets to avoid "breaking the rule?"

I seem to remember it from about a year ago.

If this ends just a small amount of the Pick 4 and Pick 6 hysteria on TVG, I'm all for the rule...lol..

[kenwoodallpromos]

Kenwwod, I'm no lawyer but the rule the way it is posted above specifically states that no lisencee shall persuade or cause anyone to wager on a horse in the state. Ron Ellis definitely has a trainer's liscense therefore is a liscencee. When he picks a horse on TVG does anyone think he is not persuading some people to bet on that horse? Then if TVG posts a proposed P-6 ticket on their website and people bet it blindly they are definitely violating the letter of the rule.
"No licensee or employee of a racing association or its concessionaires shall knowingly or designedly by ****false representation****". Where is ther required false representation? Is Ellis on TVG representing his stable, or not?
I think that there are many miore angles to use if anyone is looking to find "false representation" around tracks, like knowingly false "1 length= 8 feet"; "about" distances; Like giving obviously inaccurate morning lines; like allowing cancel delays.

[Java Gold@TFT]

"No licensee or employee of a racing association or its concessionaires shall knowingly OR designedly by ****false representation****". Where is ther required false representation? Is Ellis on TVG representing his stable, or not?
I think that there are many miore angles to use if anyone is looking to find "false representation" around tracks, like knowingly false "1 length= 8 feet"; "about" distances; Like giving obviously inaccurate morning lines; like allowing cancel delays.
I think you highlighted the wrong portion. "OR" should have been included. Does he KNOWINGLY persuade people to wager on horses in California? The false representation is the basis for the original comments. Why can't these guys produce their tickets to show that they aren't misleading the public by picking certain horses and then betting their own money on others? At this point no one can say for sure. The same could be said of every other track employed tout who gets on the air before each race. I don't know if the rules are the same in other states. I think the difference is that many of them just give their opinions on all of the horses in a race but don't come out and say "Bet this P-4, 2,3/4/2,6/1,8 for $16." That seems to be what TVG does in order to increase their take.

[ManeMediaMogul]

TVG personalities are not likely to be licensees or employees of a racing association, so I don't think the rule would apply.

The California Horse Racing Board only has jurisdiction over licensees.

The racing associations have jurisdiction over what happens on their premises - i.e. the Ziadie case in Florida - so they would have to boot TVG off the grounds if they wanted to.

This seems like much ado about nothing. Who really gives a rat's ass whether Schruppy bets his picks or not?

Just Jamgotchian stirring the pot again. The guy is an idiot.

[rokitman]

If this is your problem, you must be running very short on problems.

They should find something to focus on that actually matters.

[OTM Al]

Great idea genius. Let's do all we can to get TVG thrown off the air. Do yourself a favor and just quit watching it.

[fmolf]

Great idea genius. Let's do all we can to get TVG thrown off the air. Do yourself a favor and just quit watching it.
I doubt anything will happen over this.Tvg must have had lawyers review all the laws before the decided to air this type of format.My hope is that they will stay on the air in a different format and have to stop all the p6 and p4 nonsense.I think that this is much ado about nothing!If they are found in violation will they have to give back all the losing wagers from the poor slobs who bet these tickets? :lol:

[rastajenk]

Sounds like the basis for a class-less action suit. :)

[kenwoodallpromos]

The California Horse Racing Board only has jurisdiction over licensees.

The racing associations have jurisdiction over what happens on their premises - i.e. the Ziadie case in Florida - so they would have to boot TVG off the grounds if they wanted to.

This seems like much ado about nothing. Who really gives a rat's ass whether Schruppy bets his picks or not?

Just Jamgotchian stirring the pot again. The guy is an idiot.
"8)Stipulate that no ADW provider shall accept wagers or wagering
instructions on races conducted in California from a resident
of California unless all of the following conditions are met:
(a) ****the ADW provider is licensed by CHRB,**** (b) a written
agreement allowing those wagers exists with the racing
association or fair conducting the races on which the wagers
are made, and (c) the agreement must have been approved in
writing by the horsemen's organization responsible for
negotiating purse agreements for the breed on which the wagers
are made in accordance with the Interstate Horseracing Act
(Act), as specified."