Gate workouts

[senortout]

I was under the impression that you had to have your horse break from the gate in a published work before you started 'em.....The favorite in the 7th today at Saratoga not only doesn't show a gate work, he had trouble coming away in his first start...what gives?

Barrier trials...Australia forms show these interspersed with the actual races in the pp's.....something along those lines might be helpful perhaps....They appear much stricker down under regarding fitness to race...enlighten me.

senortout

[lamboguy]

I was under the impression that you had to have your horse break from the gate in a published work before you started 'em.....The favorite in the 7th today at Saratoga not only doesn't show a gate work, he had trouble coming away in his first start...what gives?

Barrier trials...Australia forms show these interspersed with the actual races in the pp's.....something along those lines might be helpful perhaps....They appear much stricker down under regarding fitness to race...enlighten me.

senortoutall you need is a gate card, all that means is you bring the horse to the gate, bring him in the gate, and let the horse stand there. if the horse passes the test the starter issues a gate card

[senortout]

Ok, well thanks for that....the horse I mentioned, incidentally, finished worse than fourth as the favorite...in a seven horse field.

[46zilzal]

Qualifying works for older are all that are usually necessary to start. Gate works for older are usually bad actors with a long history of shenanigans.

Babies SHOULD have trial races like they used to do at the Fair Grounds.

[Hanover1]

Qualifying works for older are all that are usually necessary to start. Gate works for older are usually bad actors with a long history of shenanigans.

Babies SHOULD have trial races like they used to do at the Fair Grounds. I always felt they should run Q races like trots. NB affairs that showcase the talent or lack therof. However 4-1/2f races seem just as well, and you can bet 'em :)

[bisket]

i never play a maiden first time starter in a sprint without a decent gate work. especially if the race is shorter than 6 furs. i make exceptions, but i have to feel the horse is much the best for another reason. maidens are usually green and inexperienced. if a horse can break decently and get going early it just gives them even more of a leg up on the competition. it really makes a difference lots of times in these races.
remember you subtract 1 second off a gate work when comparing gate times with regular works. so if a horse did a breezing work out of the gate in 48 seconds; this is the same as 47 second breeze in a normal work.

[fmolf]

i never play a maiden first time starter in a sprint without a decent gate work. especially if the race is shorter than 6 furs. i make exceptions, but i have to feel the horse is much the best for another reason. maidens are usually green and inexperienced. if a horse can break decently and get going early it just gives them even more of a leg up on the competition. it really makes a difference lots of times in these races.
remember you subtract 1 second off a gate work when comparing gate times with regular works. so if a horse did a breezing work out of the gate in 48 seconds; this is the same as 47 second breeze in a normal work.
A lot of the horses gate speed is attributable to the skill of the jock in this area.I have begun checking formulator for the jockey stats with firsters and front runners in sprints...especially short ones as you already stated.

[Robert Fischer]

all you need is a gate card, all that means is you bring the horse to the gate, bring him in the gate, and let the horse stand there. if the horse passes the test the starter issues a gate card:ThmbUp:

[jotb]

all you need is a gate card, all that means is you bring the horse to the gate, bring him in the gate, and let the horse stand there. if the horse passes the test the starter issues a gate card

There's a bit more to this lamboguy. A racehorse needs to learn how to break from the gate. This takes multiple visits, starting with simply showing the horse the starting gate for the first time, and perhaps just walking through it. After 2 - 3 visits to the gate the horse will be ready to be closed in (walking in with the front gate closed, the back gate closed once in). The front gates will be opened (manually) and the horse will walk out first, and then in subsequent visits jog out, canter out, gallop out and finally breeze out, in company with another horse. The key to helping the horse become a good gate horse is to always focus on keeping the horse straight as it exits the gate. During each of the visits to the gate the gate crew will get the horse familiar with a person climbing around the gate. A horse needs to acquire a gate card before it is approved to run for the first time. If a horse has not run in six months some racing jurisdictions will require a six month card, which may require the horse to break from the gate again. If a horse is adding blinkers to its equipment, then a blinker card is required (i.e. the horse has to come to the gate and be approved by the gate crew with the blinkers on).

Joe

[lamboguy]

A lot of the horses gate speed is attributable to the skill of the jock in this area.I have begun checking formulator for the jockey stats with firsters and front runners in sprints...especially short ones as you already stated.anytime we have a horse that is tacked up on the farm we have an area that looks like one single stalll that the horses walk through before they come on to the track. they do this every day when they are yearlings. they also all go though a series of regular gate preps in a 6 horse gate. in their educational process the first few times they will be the only one at the gate, then the horse will be with another and gradually get to a full compliment of horses in the gate. since the training track is only 5/8 mile and not that wide a 6 horse gate works just well. when you get past that part you now go into the gate with bells like the horse will hear in an actual race. some training center's have gates that will individually open with split second differential's to train the horses to run on the lead or just off the lead. teaching horses good gate skills is a work of art. a horse can get alot more gate work at a training center than on a regular racetrack. my partner know's a little bit about gate work he has been doing it for 40 years now and know's how to put out a few champions, mostly from "bargain basement" horses.

[lamboguy]

There's a bit more to this lamboguy. A racehorse needs to learn how to break from the gate. This takes multiple visits, starting with simply showing the horse the starting gate for the first time, and perhaps just walking through it. After 2 - 3 visits to the gate the horse will be ready to be closed in (walking in with the front gate closed, the back gate closed once in). The front gates will be opened (manually) and the horse will walk out first, and then in subsequent visits jog out, canter out, gallop out and finally breeze out, in company with another horse. The key to helping the horse become a good gate horse is to always focus on keeping the horse straight as it exits the gate. During each of the visits to the gate the gate crew will get the horse familiar with a person climbing around the gate. A horse needs to acquire a gate card before it is approved to run for the first time. If a horse has not run in six months some racing jurisdictions will require a six month card, which may require the horse to break from the gate again. If a horse is adding blinkers to its equipment, then a blinker card is required (i.e. the horse has to come to the gate and be approved by the gate crew with the blinkers on).

Joenot with any horse that i have ever put out. my horses are all properly gate schooled, if they need blinkers they go through all that before they hit the racetrack. i have never missed getting a gate card on my first attempt out of hundreds of horses that have gone through our gate schooling process.

[sarcastic answer]

not with any horse that i have ever put out. my horses are all properly gate schooled, if they need blinkers they go through all that before they hit the racetrack. i have never missed getting a gate card on my first attempt out of hundreds of horses that have gone through our gate schooling process.

Lambo, you are correct all you need is a gate card to start.. That was the question posed and thanks for answering.

[Brogan]

not with any horse that i have ever put out. my horses are all properly gate schooled, if they need blinkers they go through all that before they hit the racetrack. i have never missed getting a gate card on my first attempt out of hundreds of horses that have gone through our gate schooling process.
[emphasis added]

Never??? That's QUITE a claim for "hundreds of horses." Despite all the best training in the world, it is beyond belief that something didn't go wrong at least a few times.

[Brogan]

Lambo, you are correct all you need is a gate card to start.. That was the question posed and thanks for answering.

I think different jurisdictions may have different requirements regarding the requirement of a gate work. But yes, in ALL circumstanes, you must have a gate card.

[lamboguy]

[emphasis added]

Never??? That's QUITE a claim for "hundreds of horses." Despite all the best training in the world, it is beyond belief that something didn't go wrong at least a few times.actually i was being very consevetive in calling it hundred's.

if you want champions they need good foundations before they hit the track. all horse are taught good habits, now that is not to say that someone sent a horse that was already broken with problems and couldn't get them to the gate. i have seen all sorts of problems like a horse sitting in the gate. thank god it wasn't my horse, but they do crazy things sometimes.

brogan if you have had problems in the past breaking your horses, or have had bad gate horses, i would suggest you find someone that can do a good job for you.

[Brogan]

I'll certainly send them all to you, since you're the gate god.

My point is merely that despite all the best foundation, patience and training you can provide....SHIT HAPPENS.

I continue to find it beyond belief that every single horse out of the thousands you've sent got their gate cards on their first shot.

[lamboguy]

I'll certainly send them all to you, since you're the gate god.

My point is merely that despite all the best foundation, patience and training you can provide....SHIT HAPPENS.

I continue to find it beyond belief that every single horse out of the thousands you've sent got their gate cards on their first shot.i heard your point brogan, i am not the gate god either. i am not asking you to send us your horses. you are trying to twist what i said, i simply stated that we never have a problem getting gate cards. i realise that other people do, and i am not accusing them of doing a good or bad job. i just said that our horses are prepared to get their gate cards the first time they attempt to get one

[Brogan]

i just said that our horses are prepared to get their gate cards the first time they attempt to get one
Ok, maybe I'm splitting hairs...but had you phrased it this way the first time I wouldn't have had any issue with your statement.

Sending a animal that's properly prepared certainly helps assure a positive result.

[jotb]

I'll certainly send them all to you, since you're the gate god.

My point is merely that despite all the best foundation, patience and training you can provide....SHIT HAPPENS.

I continue to find it beyond belief that every single horse out of the thousands you've sent got their gate cards on their first shot.


I was thinking the same thing but figured it might be easier if I didn't reply. He originally made it sound the only thing that's needed to get a gate card is simply stand him in the gate and pass some test. He never explained the whole process. It's not as cut and dry.

Joe

[lamboguy]

I was under the impression that you had to have your horse break from the gate in a published work before you started 'em.....The favorite in the 7th today at Saratoga not only doesn't show a gate work, he had trouble coming away in his first start...what gives?

Barrier trials...Australia forms show these interspersed with the actual races in the pp's.....something along those lines might be helpful perhaps....They appear much stricker down under regarding fitness to race...enlighten me.

senortoutall i attempted to do is answer the original question. the man said gate work, i brought out "gate card". i wasn't trying to go about the way to train the horse in order to pass the test. as far as i know if things haven't changed lately alll you do is bring the horse to the gate, enter the horse in the gate, and have the horse stand in the gate, breaks out of the gate with other horses and either passes or fails. if things have changed, i stand to be corrected. if this is not the same everywhere, i stand to be corrected.

[lamboguy]

Ok, maybe I'm splitting hairs...but had you phrased it this way the first time I wouldn't have had any issue with your statement.

Sending a animal that's properly prepared certainly helps assure a positive result.i think i owe you a little clarification of what i was saying about never missing on the first time. the most important thing here is that my partner breaks and trains over 400 horses a year for the past 40 years. he can ok a gate card right on his training center in ocala. he still lets the horse's go to the track and get a gate card, whether its calder, belmont, monmouth saratoga, arlington or anywhere else for that matter. the only exception might be when the horse's run in early 2 yo races either in californina, or this year in gulfstream.

my partner, tony everard has trained quite a few champions that have had small pricetags, like timely writer, 4star allstar and dave, instant friendship, funnycide, formal gold, skip away, island fashion, two step salsa. i just asked him this morning if he has ever failed to pass on the first time, he answered not once in 40 years.

[onefast99]

i think i owe you a little clarification of what i was saying about never missing on the first time. the most important thing here is that my partner breaks and trains over 400 horses a year for the past 40 years. he can ok a gate card right on his training center in ocala. he still lets the horse's go to the track and get a gate card, whether its calder, belmont, monmouth saratoga, arlington or anywhere else for that matter. the only exception might be when the horse's run in early 2 yo races either in californina, or this year in gulfstream.

my partner, tony everard has trained quite a few champions that have had small pricetags, like timely writer, 4star allstar and dave, instant friendship, funnycide, formal gold, skip away, island fashion, two step salsa. i just asked him this morning if he has ever failed to pass on the first time, he answered not once in 40 years.
As you know we had one recently who is a 4 y/o that was on the watch list at the gate, during the loading process the horse two away from us became unruly and the guy holding our horse went to help out the other horse he didn't even have time to get the horse into position and she threw her head up in the air at the break dropped back 15 lengths and didn't threaten much. She went to gate school the following week, the trainer did a great job with her and she broke with the pack last Friday ending up 4th in the race. I agree with lambo trainers that work with horses in the gate end up as better runners.

[lamboguy]

As you know we had one recently who is a 4 y/o that was on the watch list at the gate, during the loading process the horse two away from us became unruly and the guy holding our horse went to help out the other horse he didn't even have time to get the horse into position and she threw her head up in the air at the break dropped back 15 lengths and didn't threaten much. She went to gate school the following week, the trainer did a great job with her and she broke with the pack last Friday ending up 4th in the race. I agree with lambo trainers that work with horses in the gate end up as better runners.tony is great, but he is not the only guy that's good in florida. the guy you go to is good, i know that jim crupi does a big job. in texas keith assmussen is as good as it gets, he has a training center that is as big as a racetrack. i am told its a mile track. i have never seen one of the horse's that come from his place have problem's at the gate. its no accident that steve asmussen wins the 2 yo races either, when he gets the horse it comes from his dad most of the time. his dad can make a chicken horse brave. when they come to his son, if the horse has ability, he finds it.

[jotb]

I was under the impression that you had to have your horse break from the gate in a published work before you started 'em.....The favorite in the 7th today at Saratoga not only doesn't show a gate work, he had trouble coming away in his first start...what gives?

Barrier trials...Australia forms show these interspersed with the actual races in the pp's.....something along those lines might be helpful perhaps....They appear much stricker down under regarding fitness to race...enlighten me.

senortout

At Philly Park a first time starter must have at least one published gate work 45 days prior to race.

Joe

[lamboguy]

At Philly Park a first time starter must have at least one published gate work 45 days prior to race.

Joethat is not the way i understand the rule at philadelphia park, to the best of my understanding you must have a published work, not necesarily a gate work, and a gate card. the gate card does not have to come from philadelphia park either. to the best of my knowledge that is the same rules that they have in all racetracks.

the work must be 30 days prior to the race as well

the 45 day rule i believe has to do with horses that have been inactive for 45 days, and that would mean horses that have already started of all ages.

[jotb]

that is not the way i understand the rule at philadelphia park, to the best of my understanding you must have a published work, not necesarily a gate work, and a gate card. the gate card does not have to come from philadelphia park either. to the best of my knowledge that is the same rules that they have in all racetracks.

the work must be 30 days prior to the race as well

the 45 day rule i believe has to do with horses that have been inactive for 45 days, and that would mean horses that have already started of all ages.

Maybe you should check the overnight and then get back to me. It goes something like this...

* * * ATTENTION HORSEMEN * * *
First time starters MUST have a published gate workout within 45 days of first
start. Horses which have not started for six months or more must have a
published gate workout

Joe

[bisket]

Maybe you should check the overnight and then get back to me. It goes something like this...

* * * ATTENTION HORSEMEN * * *
First time starters MUST have a published gate workout within 45 days of first
start. Horses which have not started for six months or more must have a
published gate workout

Joe
no that can't be right. maybe a maiden who hasn't started for 6 months, but not all horses that haven't raced for 6 months

[lamboguy]

Maybe you should check the overnight and then get back to me. It goes something like this...

* * * ATTENTION HORSEMEN * * *
First time starters MUST have a published gate workout within 45 days of first
start. Horses which have not started for six months or more must have a
published gate workout

Joeaccording to SAL SINATRA, racing secretary of PHILLY park, he says all you need is a gate card. according to SAL, he will accept any gate card from an authorized race track or training center.

[Brogan]

according to SAL SINATRA, racing secretary of PHILLY park, he says all you need is a gate card. according to SAL, he will accept any gate card from an authorized race track or training center.
Sal better read his own overnight:

http://equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=ONDC-PHA-20090830D

[lamboguy]

i just read it

[Imriledup]

I think all tracks should have 'schooling' races like Fair Grounds used to do. That way, you'll get to see every horse, there will be no such thing as a first time starter.

[jotb]

i just read it

What does Sal say about the overnight?

[jotb]

no that can't be right. maybe a maiden who hasn't started for 6 months, but not all horses that haven't raced for 6 months

Are you sure about this?

[Brogan]

I think we may be confusing two distinct things...

Gate Card: is a certification from a track or a recognized training center that a horse has been deemed qualified to start a race breaking from the gate

and

Gate Work: a breeze that begins from the gate.

Now the confusion probably is that in order to get a gate card, you almost always do a gate work.

[lamboguy]

it is certainly on the overnight, when i asked my trainer yesterday he told me he never heard of a gate work for first time starters, obviously this is now different. i also never have heard of gate works to qualify older horses, that policy too has just been implemented. i guess they have had alot of bad gate horses there, and they are now taking precautionary steps, after all they have no shortage of horses in philadelphia park, and no problem filling entries there either. so they can make any rule they want and not effect the entry box. whether these new rules are good or bad, that remains to be seen. i would not think that many trainers that have horses coming off a layoff that are 7 year olds will be to happy about this rule change.

also the first response is that trainers love the new surface in philly. it has some type of clay base with alot of give to it.