View Full Version : Sea the Stars
Gorgeous George
08-18-2009, 10:44 AM
Sea The Stars won his fourth Group 1 of his remarkable season in the Juddmonte International Stakes. He beat the aidan o'brien trained Mastercraftsman who won both the Irish 2000 guineas and the St James Palace Stakes. Sea The Stars will now be aimed at the Irish Champion Stakes (ground permitting) which brings up a rematch with Fame and Glory who came second behind Sea The Stars in the Derby then went on to win the Irish Derby.
Robert Fischer
08-18-2009, 10:53 AM
Sea The Stars won his fourth Group 1 of his remarkable season in the Juddmonte International Stakes. He beat the aidan o'brien trained Mastercraftsman who won both the Irish 2000 guineas and the St James Palace Stakes. Sea The Stars will now be aimed at the Irish Champion Stakes (ground permitting) which brings up a rematch with Fame and Glory who came second behind Sea The Stars in the Derby then went on to win the Irish Derby.
he looks like one of the worlds best. I hope to see him in the Breeders Cup and the Dubai World Cup.
FenceBored
08-18-2009, 10:55 AM
Good for him! I look forward to watching this race later.
Watcher
08-18-2009, 04:39 PM
I'm relocating to Dublin, but unfortunately, not until October.
FenceBored
08-18-2009, 04:52 PM
Been looking around for a video of the race and the only one I've found is on the York Racecourse site.
http://www.yorkracecourse.co.uk/racing/racing-video
Very nice. "What's the champion got left in the locker?" Another gear.
OTM Al
08-18-2009, 06:14 PM
Another nice win, well measured. Jock didn't really let him go until the end and then he went right by. In complete control all the way despite appearances. Hope to play a few at York when I get back to Saratoga Thursday. Couple nice races still left in the meet.
46zilzal
08-18-2009, 06:26 PM
I'm relocating to Dublin, but unfortunately, not until October.
I would like to go back there too
SmartyLane
08-18-2009, 10:25 PM
I looked for that video everywhere....thanks for posting.
I was extremely impressed with both SOTS and MC. SOTS like said above was in complete control and was not all out till the last furlong and still even then he was going along so easy it seemed.
I am headed to Santa Anita for the BC and I would love to see both these horses.
Been looking around for a video of the race and the only one I've found is on the York Racecourse site.
http://www.yorkracecourse.co.uk/racing/racing-video
Very nice. "What's the champion got left in the locker?" Another gear.
HAve a look at the daily video review on the racing post website. They have the race as well.
http://www.racingpost.com/media/media_centre.sd?view=rp&media_id=9238
depalma113
08-19-2009, 06:36 AM
I really thought Mastercraftsman would get him this week, but Sea the Stars proved he's the best in Europe.
joanied
08-20-2009, 04:08 PM
He sure is a nice one...love the way he came on and seems to have a nice late kick... thanks for posting a video, guys...
I sometimes wonder if the Euro horses dislike the rides they get...with a few exceptions, like Dettori, they all ride that Euro style and if I was a horse, I'd hate it...these riders are all over their horses and way too high off the saddle...JMO...but why do they ride like that over there...seems they'd throw a horse off balance and riding so high, create a bit of drag.
Java Gold@TFT
08-20-2009, 05:00 PM
He sure is a nice one...love the way he came on and seems to have a nice late kick... thanks for posting a video, guys...
I sometimes wonder if the Euro horses dislike the rides they get...with a few exceptions, like Dettori, they all ride that Euro style and if I was a horse, I'd hate it...these riders are all over their horses and way too high off the saddle...JMO...but why do they ride like that over there...seems they'd throw a horse off balance and riding so high, create a bit of drag.
JoanieD,
One of my all time favorite comparisons of European vs American riding styles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noi82WGe1cM
The video isn't the best but just watch the closeup near the 1/8th pole. You've got the high riding, laying back Euro vs. the horizontal back, close to the neck American. No-one will ever know if riding styles really made the difference but it's fun to watch.
joanied
08-20-2009, 05:28 PM
JoanieD,
One of my all time favorite comparisons of European vs American riding styles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noi82WGe1cM
The video isn't the best but just watch the closeup near the 1/8th pole. You've got the high riding, laying back Euro vs. the horizontal back, close to the neck American. No-one will ever know if riding styles really made the difference but it's fun to watch.
JavaG...THANKS...that was great to see again...I just loved Theatrical (Billy Mott looked so young...and I miss Mr. Paulson)...
the replay showed it best... you can plainly see the differenc in riding styles... like you, I don't know if an American jock on Trempolino would have made a difference that day...but a Euro rider on Theatrical, in this particular race, he would have lost the race...IMO, the Euro style just cannot get the most out of a horse...especially right down on the wire...in a photo finish type deal, the American jock will get the nod because they know how to push that horse's head in front...
:)
statik27
08-20-2009, 06:14 PM
JavaG...THANKS...that was great to see again...I just loved Theatrical (Billy Mott looked so young...and I miss Mr. Paulson)...
the replay showed it best... you can plainly see the differenc in riding styles... like you, I don't know if an American jock on Trempolino would have made a difference that day...but a Euro rider on Theatrical, in this particular race, he would have lost the race...IMO, the Euro style just cannot get the most out of a horse...especially right down on the wire...in a photo finish type deal, the American jock will get the nod because they know how to push that horse's head in front...
:)
Can I just add, Theatrical sired some of the most beautiful babies this side of pegasus.
JavaG...THANKS...that was great to see again...I just loved Theatrical (Billy Mott looked so young...and I miss Mr. Paulson)...
the replay showed it best... you can plainly see the differenc in riding styles... like you, I don't know if an American jock on Trempolino would have made a difference that day...but a Euro rider on Theatrical, in this particular race, he would have lost the race...IMO, the Euro style just cannot get the most out of a horse...especially right down on the wire...in a photo finish type deal, the American jock will get the nod because they know how to push that horse's head in front...
:)
It's to do with the type of racing in each country. American jockey's would be useless in Europe's longer distance races, they could never keep going like this over the distances that they cover.
Java Gold@TFT
08-21-2009, 05:57 AM
It's to do with the type of racing in each country. American jockey's would be useless in Europe's longer distance races, they could never keep going like this over the distances that they cover.
Yep, your right. That's why European jockeys never adjusted their styles after Cauthen and Cash started doing well with a hybrid style of riding. :bang:
robert99
08-21-2009, 07:14 AM
It's to do with the type of racing in each country. American jockey's would be useless in Europe's longer distance races, they could never keep going like this over the distances that they cover.
Recent research by The Royal Veterinary College has actually proven that the modern Euro style of using jockey legs as spring type energy absorbers actually reduces horse energy demands and that any extra loss to drag is minimal. You are right in that the effect increases the longer the race and jockeys have to be extremely tough and fit to do that. It took Steve Cauthen about 18 months in UK to learn the tracks and strengthen up for distance races, which he then excelled at, with his superior skill in pacing from the front. Euro jockeys do not have sectionals available to calibrate their riding against and tend more to go with the feel of how the horse is performing at each stage
"When animals carry loads, there is a proportionate increase in metabolic cost, and in humans this increase in cost is reduced when the load is elastically coupled to the load bearer. Major horse race times and records improved by 5 to 7% around 1900 when jockeys adopted a crouched posture. We show that jockeys move to isolate themselves from the movement of their mount. This would be difficult or impossible with a seated or upright, straight-legged posture. This isolation means that the horse supports the jockey’s body weight but does not have to move the jockey through each cyclical stride path. This posture requires substantial work by jockeys, who have near-maximum heart rates during racing"
Yep, your right. That's why European jockeys never adjusted their styles after Cauthen and Cash started doing well with a hybrid style of riding. :bang:
what do you mean by hybrid style of riding?
Recent research by The Royal Veterinary College has actually proven that the modern Euro style of using jockey legs as spring type energy absorbers actually reduces horse energy demands and that any extra loss to drag is minimal. You are right in that the effect increases the longer the race and jockeys have to be extremely tough and fit to do that. It took Steve Cauthen about 18 months in UK to learn the tracks and strengthen up for distance races, which he then excelled at, with his superior skill in pacing from the front. Euro jockeys do not have sectionals available to calibrate their riding against and tend more to go with the feel of how the horse is performing at each stage
"When animals carry loads, there is a proportionate increase in metabolic cost, and in humans this increase in cost is reduced when the load is elastically coupled to the load bearer. Major horse race times and records improved by 5 to 7% around 1900 when jockeys adopted a crouched posture. We show that jockeys move to isolate themselves from the movement of their mount. This would be difficult or impossible with a seated or upright, straight-legged posture. This isolation means that the horse supports the jockey’s body weight but does not have to move the jockey through each cyclical stride path. This posture requires substantial work by jockeys, who have near-maximum heart rates during racing"
Very interesting quote. I had to read it a few times :-) but it makes total sense.
Do you agree that splitting your time between both American and European racing teaches you a lot more about horses than if you would dedicate all of that time to either of the two? It's also interesting to read people's prejudiced opinions, which are usually based on the assumption that the local version is best.
check the clip at the bottom of the page
very interesting
http://www.rvc.ac.uk/SML/Research/Stories/ModernRidingStyle.cfm
robert99
08-23-2009, 03:15 PM
Very interesting quote. I had to read it a few times :-) but it makes total sense.
Do you agree that splitting your time between both American and European racing teaches you a lot more about horses than if you would dedicate all of that time to either of the two? It's also interesting to read people's prejudiced opinions, which are usually based on the assumption that the local version is best.
Starting as an 11 year old, I don't often learn anything much about horses from various forums or international racing, but I do learn a lot about different ways of looking at the same handicapping/ analysis problem. You can only dedicate yourself to a small subset of one countries racing to make consistent profits.
Once two American tourists got talking, looking out from the Eiffel Tower, and asked me why Europe didn't have just one capital like they did back home. Also why do French people speak English with such funny accents? Travel does broaden the mind as you compare one thing against the other and you can now do that on the internet if you are open to new thinking.
You can also make a lot of money in international racing as the home crowd is so prejudiced in favour of their home grown stars. The shippers have not come thousands of miles just to make up the numbers. Recent examples were from USA and Australia at this year's Royal Ascot.
I'm relocating to Dublin, but unfortunately, not until October.
I think you will love it. It was my second favorite European city.
I think you will love it. It was my second favorite European city.
What was your favourite? I think Bill O'Reilly loved Amsterdam :D .
robert99
08-26-2009, 07:14 AM
Nice blog "Ireland Land of the Horse" to give a flavour of what you might see on a visit.
http://cs.thehorse.com/blogs/ireland-land-of-the-horse/archive/2009/08/08/turf-time.aspx
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