what SICKO hinted at

[46zilzal]

Has been substantiated by an health insurance worker who came clean.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/potter.health.insurance/index.html

QUOTE:' It was my job to "promote and defend" the company's reputation and to try to persuade reporters to write positive stories about the industry's ideas on reform. During the last couple of years of my career, however, I became increasingly worried that the high-deductible plans insurers were beginning to push Americans into would force more and more of us into bankruptcy.

The higher I rose in the company, the more I learned about the tactics insurers use to dump policyholders when they get sick, in order to increase profits and to reward their Wall Street investors. I could not in good conscience continue serving as an industry mouthpiece. And I did not want to be part of yet another industry effort to kill meaningful reform.'

The industry has been engaging in these kinds of tactics for many years, going back to its successful behind-the-scenes campaign to kill the Clinton reform plan."

[Snag]

So, what is your point 46? Do you agree or disagree with Mr. Portter's feelings?
Just posting an article doesn't mean anything does it?

[boxcar]

So, what is your point 46? Do you agree or disagree with Mr. Portter's feelings?
Just posting an article doesn't mean anything does it?

Surely, you don't expect 46er to wax original, do you? I don't believe he's had a spontaneous thought in a very, very long while. His head is overflowing with liberal talking points. That's it.

Boxcar

[Tom]

I thought this thread was about Obama.:p

[Snag]

Sicko, Obama, 46, classic :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Steve 'StatMan']

From the comic strip State Of The Union, back when Sicko came out,

[46zilzal]

One of the classics shown was a lady who had to pay for a service that her provider ostensibly COVERED: ambulance service. When she was knocked unconscious in an automobile accident and required ambulance service to go to the ER, her carrier refused payment because she DIDN'T CALL THEM to get it authorized at the time of the service.

How G.D. ridiculous.

[Tom]

I suppose Fatso got both sides of the story.......

[jballscalls]

I suppose Fatso got both sides of the story.......

of course he didn't, but Tom do you think insurance is generally honest and decent? i have what is rated as a top insurance provider and they are abig pain in the ass. we need insurance reform in a bad way.

[Tom]

I think our health insurance companies have been providing the best care in the world to millions of people for generations. I trust the insurance companies to be honest and have integrity far more that I trust any government.

We need reform alright - government reform. Get government out of the business, repeal stupid laws that dive up costs and let the market bring down prices. The government prevents us from shopping around the country for policies, refuses to reform torts that keep cost sky high, prevent doctors from lowering prices ( the story of the NY doctor who tried to offer all-you-need HC for a flat fee of $79/month and was stopped cold by the government).

They refuse to stop the drain illegals put on our system, they do not go out and get lower drug prices for us as Canada has done. From my point of view, the government has a plate full of immediate, no-brainer options that could probably cut HC costs in half overnight.....but then again, it is not about HC or costs at all.

[ArlJim78]

the Cash for Clunkers clusterf*ck should dissuade anybody from wanting government healthcare. As usual, everything they said they would do they failed to deliver on. a bureaucratic mess.

[Tom]

It was a measley billion dollar program, compared to 1.3 trillion, and they had to hire people to still fail! They couldn't handle this simple little program!

They was bamboozled by a billion!:lol::lol:

Who ran it , Joe "Brainiac" Biden?

[Marshall Bennett]

My coverage is expensive , but it works . An overhaul of the system by this current administration is a gamble I'm not ready to go with . I don't think they have the tools to make it work . We don't have enough doctors and nurses to accommodate a program that will admit tens of millions new participants . Add a price tag that will be astronomical , this is a bad idea that I believe will crash and burn hurting everyone . Besides , from what I've seen , the Obama administration is a weak structure and can't be trusted .

[jballscalls]

I think our health insurance companies have been providing the best care in the world to millions of people for generations. I trust the insurance companies to be honest and have integrity far more that I trust any government.

We need reform alright - government reform. Get government out of the business, repeal stupid laws that dive up costs and let the market bring down prices. The government prevents us from shopping around the country for policies, refuses to reform torts that keep cost sky high, prevent doctors from lowering prices ( the story of the NY doctor who tried to offer all-you-need HC for a flat fee of $79/month and was stopped cold by the government).

They refuse to stop the drain illegals put on our system, they do not go out and get lower drug prices for us as Canada has done. From my point of view, the government has a plate full of immediate, no-brainer options that could probably cut HC costs in half overnight.....but then again, it is not about HC or costs at all.

nice spin LOL Insurance is a complete joke and i agree, i don't want government interference in health care either, but insurance is a joke. "dear sir, we're not going to cover your hip surgery because of your wrist injury 3 years ago, because the wrist bone is connected to the hip bone"

why does everyone keep saying we have the best health care in the world. I have never been anywhere else for health care so i don't have a basis for comparison. Friends i have abroad in england who used to live here say we're not even close to their system. And the world health organization rated us 37th in the world in terms of health care systems. But i'm sure their a liberal biased organization LOL Health care is just so expensive, i wish it were more affordable for all of us

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

[Tom]

No joke to me....they paid for my surgery when I broke my ankle, the cover my scripts, my appointments, my physicals, etc........for modest co-pays.
I have never been turned down for anything that I was not able to talk them into eventually.

Health care expensive? Duh.
My health is worth any price.

[Lefty]

Marshall, i have the same experience as you.
Open up the competition across State lines as Demint says, and hundreds of insurance companies will be competing for our business. Simple, and no Trillions needed.

[46zilzal]

Marshall, i have the same experience as you.
Open up the competition across State lines as Demint says, and hundreds of insurance companies will be competing for our business. Simple, and no Trillions needed.
And they will deny care again and again and again. That is what they DO.

[Lefty]

zilly, guess you just refuse to read the part where i'm saying My Insurance has never denied me or my wife anything! She's had 3 operations and lots of tests associated with the operatations all in last 2 yrs,and I had a 4 day stint in the hospital last yr. And I just had a Catscan.
The govt will be the one rationing care, because there is simply not enough money. Dr Ezekial Emanuel is a top advisor to Obama and he says in the Complete Lives System, rationing to seniors will be done to accomodate the young. No thanks. i'll take my chances with the insurance companies.
And by saying what you said, you illustrate your ignorance of the free mkt.

[Snag]

And they will deny care again and again and again. That is what they DO.

46, do you really think the insurance companies could and grown and be as big and mean as you make them out to be by denying claims again and again and again? Doing that would run them out of business in the very short run. Your logic does not follow you rant.

[46zilzal]

Recent interview with MM by the Hollywood Reporter and we agree on ONE thing

THR: Have you ever considered leaving the U.S.?

Moore: Thank you for asking! I had never considered this idea until you mentioned it, and now that you have, it doesn't sound like such a bad idea! I guess if I were going to live outside the U.S., I would live in Texas.

[46zilzal]

46, do you really think the insurance companies could and grown and be as big and mean as you make them out to be by denying claims again and again and again? Doing that would run them out of business in the very short run. Your logic does not follow you rant.
lots of evidence:

Aetna: "Aetna Inc. … settled with the plaintiffs, which include the medical associations of California and Texas. Aetna agreed to pay the plaintiffs $120 million." Milt Freudenheim, "Class-Action Status Is Upheld for Doctors Suing Insurers," New York Times, September 2, 2004. See also, Susan Beck, "HMO Postmortem," American Lawyer, October 10, 2003. Settlement Agreement, http://www.aetna.com/provider/agreement_with_physicians.html

Blue Cross/Blue Shield: "Sixty-seven Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies across the nation have paid the United States a total of $117 million to settle government claims that Medicare made primary payments for health care services that should have been paid by the Blue Cross/Blue Shield private insurance companies, the Department of Justice announced today." "Blue Cross/Blue Shield Companies Settle Medicare Claims, Pay United States $117 Million, Agree To Share Information," Department of Justice News Release, October 25, 1995.
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/Pre_96/October95/551.txt.html

Cigna: "Cigna Corporation, [has] settled with the plaintiffs, which include the medical associations of California and Texas. … Cigna agreed to pay $85 million." Milt Freudenheim, "Class-Action Status Is Upheld for Doctors Suing Insurers," New York Times, September 2, 2004.

"HCA Inc. (formerly known as Columbia/HCA and HCA - The Healthcare Company) has agreed to pay the United States $631 million in civil penalties and damages arising from false claims the government alleged it submitted to Medicare and other federal health programs, the Justice Department announced today. … Previously, on December 14, 2000, HCA subsidiaries pled guilty to substantial criminal conduct and paid more than $840 million in criminal fines, civil restitution and penalties. Combined with today's separate administrative settlement with the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), under which HCA will pay an additional $250 million to resolve overpayment claims arising from certain of its cost reporting practices, the government will have recovered $1.7 billion from HCA, by far the largest recovery ever reached by the government in a health care fraud investigation." "Largest Health Care Fraud Case In U.S. History Settled; HCA Investigation Nets Record Total Of $1.7 Billion," Department of Justice News Release, June 26, 2003.
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2003/June/03_civ_386.htm

[46zilzal]

According to Statistics Canada, the official government statistical agency, "In 2005, the median waiting time was about 4 weeks for specialist visits, 4 weeks for non-emergency surgery, and 3 weeks for diagnostic tests. Nationally, median waiting times remained stable between 2003 and 2005 - but there were some differences at the provincial level for selected specialized services.… 70 to 80 percent of Canadians find their waiting times acceptable" "Access to health care services in Canada, Waiting times for specialized services (January to December 2005)," Statistics Canada, http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82-575-XIE/82-575-
XIE2006002.htm

A recent study of emergency care in Ontario found that overall, "50% of patients triaged as CTAS I [most acute] were seen by a physician within 6 minutes and 86% were seen within 30 minutes of arriving at the [Emergency Department]. In contrast, the 50% of patients triaged as CTAS IV or V who were seen most quickly waited an hour or less, while 1 in 10 waited three hours or more. Understanding Emergency Department Wait Times: How Long Do People Spend in Emergency Departments in Ontario? Canadian Institute for Health Information, January 2007.
http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=reports_
wait_times_bulletins_e

"Gerard Anderson, a Johns Hopkins health policy professor who has spent his career examining the world's healthcare, said there are delays, but not as many as conservatives state. In Canada, the United Kingdom and France, 'three percent of hospital discharges had delays in treatment,' Anderson told The Miami Herald. 'That's a relatively small number, and they're all elective surgeries, such as hip and knee replacement.' John Dorschner, "'Sicko' film is set to spark debate; Reformers are gearing up for 'Sicko,' the first major movie to examine America's often maligned healthcare system," Miami Herald, June 29, 2007.

[robert99]

Marshall, i have the same experience as you.
Open up the competition across State lines as Demint says, and hundreds of insurance companies will be competing for our business. Simple, and no Trillions needed.

Insurance does not work that way.
Total income payments have to exceed risk of peak claims by a safe margin.
The people who don't claim pay for the full cost of other's operations.
If you have hundreds of separate companies , each has its own fixed costs, office, advertising, specialists etc. So total admin costs for the industry is higher but income share/ profit per company is less and a small company can go under and not pay if it has an unlucky run of claims.
If they go like car insurance with all their prices on comparison websites - the price goes down but the quality of the cover plummets. They tend to offer the same low cover at the same low price or not get any business so competition dies out. To maintain current quality they would have to raise their prices. To keep up with ageing population and medical advances they have to raise the charges again.

[Snag]

46, none of the cases you sited said anything about not paying claims.


Do you even read what you post?

[Sailwolf]

46, none of the cases you sited said anything about not paying claims.


Do you even read what you post?

There are lots of cases of not paying claims in California.

[Tom]

zilly, guess you just refuse to read the part where i'm saying My Insurance has never denied me or my wife anything! She's had 3 operations and lots of tests associated with the operatations all in last 2 yrs,and I had a 4 day stint in the hospital last yr. And I just had a Catscan.
The govt will be the one rationing care, because there is simply not enough money. Dr Ezekial Emanuel is a top advisor to Obama and he says in the Complete Lives System, rationing to seniors will be done to accomodate the young. No thanks. i'll take my chances with the insurance companies.
And by saying what you said, you illustrate your ignorance of the free mkt.

I am curious how zilly got to be such an expert on malpractice and insurance fraud?????? :lol: