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freddyblu22
08-11-2009, 07:47 PM
All,

Here is a recent interview I completed when Tim Tetrick was gracious enough to meet up with me recently after a night of racing at Chester, and here is what transpired. All reviews from this have been nothing less than exemplary, and I hope you find Tim's candidness very enjoyable and refreshing...


Tim Tetrick is harness racing’s youngest and fastest driver to ever reach the 5,000 win plateau. He is the reigning back to back driver of the year, and more importantly at the age of 27, represents the future of a sport whose fate is still to be determined. Recently, we sat down after a night of live racing at Harrah’s Chester Casino & Racetrack in Chester, PA.

Brett Sturman: You first came here (Chester) a couple years ago, and it seems that every horse you sat on the first time, was live. Horses that were 20/1 in the week’s prior, were now going off at 2/1 with you in the bike for the first time, and winning. Is there anything that you can get out of a horse that others can’t?

Tim Tetrick: I really don’t know exactly. There’s skill involved, but all these guys are pretty talented. When I first came here, we had Tony Morgan, and you had a couple other guys that were good, but now we have Yannick (Gingras) and those type guys to face everyday. And now I get a lot of leeway on the track too, I guess you could say. It’s not that I was any hungrier than I am now, because I want to win every race that I'm in. But then I was fresh, I was younger, and I was trying really hard and that goes a long way.

BS: Generally speaking, in terms of what is needed to win a race, what percent would you say is the horse, and what percent would you say is the driver?

TT: It’s probably 75% horse, 25% driver. Because if you take a 52 (1:52) pacer against all other 52 pacers in the field, and you have a two second faster driver on one of the horses; in that situation a driver can make a difference. Right now at the bigger tracks it’s almost all catch drivers. You’ve got some top level guys, some “B” level guys, and it does makes a difference. If I’m up one week on a horse, and the next week a lesser level guy is up, I'm going to get more breaks on the racetrack than him. It’s because I get more quality horses. I’m the leading driver here, and that does make a difference. There are so many horses I drive that pay about $10, and if anyone else drove, they’d be 20/1, and for some reason they win. I can’t always explain it, but my dad taught me a long time ago to drive the horse, not the race.

BS: Was there ever a particular moment when you first knew that you were going to make it this big?

TT: You know, it’s hard to say. I got lucky and it just started steamrolling when I first got out here. I went to Dover, got really good down there, started winning four or five (races) a night, and picked up the Delaware based Southwind Tempo, owned by Toby Lynch. I picked up her, got to travel a bit, and started to win a lot of races. I did good, won a lot of money, and my purse structure was really good too. I made $18 million (2007) and then $19 million (2008) in purses, and nobody has ever done that before. Shame I had to have my hip surgery, because I would have broken $20 million last year. I was only $300,000 away with three weeks left.

BS: There’s no way you could have held off on the surgery for a few more weeks so that you could reach the $20 million mark last year?

TT: I had to do the surgery. I was in so much pain, from May (2008) all the way on. It hurt before that, but really started hurting from May on. I couldn’t lay down. I had to sleep on a La-Z-Boy, because it hurt to lay down straight, and I’m still not over it. I had over a month off after the surgery, but I’m still tired because I hardly get any days off. And when I do get a day off, I have to go somewhere, and try to entertain my girlfriend [laughs].

BS: How are you feeling these days, right now?

TT: I am pretty tired now, I hurt my ribs when I got in that spill a couple weeks ago (baby race at the Meadowlands). I can hardly breathe, it hurts so bad. It hurts to raise my arms or anything. Our sport is dangerous, people don’t realize that. We’re going 30 to 35 miles per hour, with horses nose to helmet, going fast, in and out. Just think about it, it’s a thousand pound animal. They don’t always do what you want. If they want to run off with you, they’re going to run off with you. There are times you’ll try to leave with one, and then you’ll get their throttle stuck, and they go too fast and stop early at the top of the lane, because you can’t ration out the speed. You can’t make them do anything they don’t want to. Its an amazing sport, it really is.

BS: I think it would be fair to say that most people don’t fully realize all that goes into driving these horses; I’m sure a lot of people just assume it’s like driving a car through traffic.

TT: No, its not like that at all. I wish we could put a camera on the race bike, or on our helmets, where they could see us in the race from all those different angles. Some of the angles that we’re putting these horses in, it’s pretty amazing.

BS: You’re driving day in and day out against nearly the same drivers, what’s the competition like?

TT: It’s very, very competitive, everybody wants to win every race their in. You know, some races you’ll have a 1/9 shot, and you might get a break. You’ll leave out of the 8 hole, and someone will let you drop in 3rd. Somebody is giving you that hole, because the next race they might be the 1/9 shot and they’ll be looking for that same hole. It’s not fixing races or anything, its just working together because everybody is trying to make as much money as they can. Usually if I’ve got the inside and even if it’s only the third favored horse, I’ll want to get that favorite in front of me so I can follow him. It’s a mental mind game out there, you try to outsmart everybody without hurting them. I always used to like to say some of the older guys that I drove with, like Dave Magee -- they’d work you over on the track, without you knowing, and I learned a lot from that. (Brian) Sears at the Meadowlands is very good at that too, in getting you where they want you to be, without you even knowing it.

BS: You mentioned Dave Magee just now. I assume you benefitted a lot from what you learned during your time in Chicago before coming here?

TT: People don’t give Chicago credit because of its state today, but there were 5 to 6 drivers that were really, really good when I was there. You had Tony Morgan, Andy Miller, Pat Berry, and Dale Hiteman was 10 years younger. Those guys were in their prime then, and they taught me a lot. I learned a lot, and that was the toughest driving colony I’ve ever been in. Dave Magee, I think he might be the best ever. He didn’t win some of the bigger races that others out here have won, but going against him day in and day out back then was very tough.

BS: How do you decide racing strategy before each race?

TT: I mainly just go off the program, and what the trainer says. But in our business, the trainer usually says the horse is good every time [smiles]. So, you just go on how they feel in the post parade, and how the program looks. These horses are animals though, and they get sick one week here and there. Horses are just like humans, they have bad days, and aren’t machines. Some weeks they’re good, some weeks they’re bad. Little things can happen. They might get parked too fast to the quarter in :26:4 one week, and the next week you might get there in :27:3; it makes a big difference. There are a lot of variables.

BS: I’m sure you get this all the time, but seeing as how you’re out on the track nearly every single day, and often times at different tracks, do you ever get tired?

TT: Definitely, definitely. Thank God I love this so much, because it is really hard at times. I hear a lot of people warn me, “Be careful Tim, you’re burning candles with both hands.” Because I do qualifiers, and I do races. I’ll be right back here in the morning for Tuesday qualifiers (Tim had just finished 13 races this night, and it was now about 10:00 PM). And the Meadowlands, they’re just starting to slow down, but they’ve been doing all these baby races, sometimes 20 a day. I’ll do qualifiers, plus racing another three days a week up there, plus racing and qualifiers here also. A lot of times I’ll start 9:30 in the morning, where qualifiers don’t end until about 2:00 in the afternoon. And then you’ve got to go get something eat, and either come right back or travel again, and check in by 6:00 for the night races. Sometimes I’ll come back down here to race at night after being at the Meadowlands in the morning. It makes it tough.

BS: In dead tight photo finishes, do you guys usually know who wins?

TT: Sometimes. But some of these angles are really tough. Here (Chester) for example, the inside really gives an advantage from our angle on the track. In the 11th race tonight, I thought I won, but that horse on the inside (Next Flight) beat me, and I thought for sure I did win.

BS: Is there any race in particular that you have circled as being the next one that you’d like to win?

TT: I’d love to win the Hambletonian and the Little Brown Jug, but they’re very tough to win. You need to have a good horse and a lot of luck. I did win the Oaks a couple years ago (Danae), but would love to win the Hambletonian.

BS: A lot of times, and especially at Chester, you are listed sometimes on half the horses in the field when the overnight sheets come out. What factors go into your decision making?

TT: I try to take the best horse. I always try to take the best horse, in my opinion. Now it’s a little different if you’ve got a top trainer that you drive a hundred horses a month for, and then you’ve got a top trainer you drive only five a month for. I’d give some leeway to the guy I drive most for. But in general, I mainly just try to take the best horse.

BS: Are some of those decisions tougher than others? Do you find it challenging at times, having to make certain choices?

TT: Oh yeah, that’s the worst thing in my business, having to make choices. I wish I never had to do it. There are times where I almost wish I had an agent where I could just give him the green light, and say “You call the owners, you pick the horses, and you do everything.” I hate doing that. Because everyone wants you to drive, and you want to drive for them too, you hate disappointing. One thing I’ve always hated doing is hurting people's feelings. It’s not personal when you don’t take their horse, but you still feed bad because you know they try to put you up, they want you to drive, and when you can’t do it, it’s hard. I’m not even here certain days and I still get listed. I think when the Meadowlands ends in a couple weeks, I’ll come back here full time, and get a lot more picks. Last year I was getting sometimes four or five horses to pick from in a race, and that’s why I win most of my races – because I get good horses.

BS: Last year nearly everyone in the industry seemed to be up in arms over the whipping controversy. What’s your take?

TT: Honestly, I think its stupid. I agree with protecting a horse from abuse and all that, I don’t think that is right, but to take away or restrict the use of a whip is totally wrong. Like we said, it’s a thousand pound animal and we need the whip to keep them corrected, and keep them on their game. For the few gamblers we have left, if you take our whip away, and we’re coming down the lane sitting there looking like this [use your imagination], then they’re really going to be mad and think we’re stiffing. I think it all lies on the judges to do their job. If I’m getting over-aggressive and get mad once – if I over-do it and I hit a horse 10 times when I should only have hit him 5 times and I’m finishing 7th anyway – call me in and fine me $10,000. I totally agree with that. But if I'm going for $500,000, I’m coming down by the wire, I’m a half length off and I hit him four times really hard, don’t fine me for that. The top 20 guys – you don’t have a problem with them, you don’t see anyone over here doing that.

What makes it look bad is when people hear that sound [wham], when it hits the shaft, that pop. We’re not hitting the horse. We’re hitting the shaft, trying to make noise, trying to scare them. And they don’t understand if you look at the purse and its $35,000, that’s a lot of money if you’re first or second. That’s money that pays the bills. These horses, they have the best life. If they weren't doing this, they’d be pulling an Amish buggy. If these horses get a little sick or temperature, the vet is in there working on them. The grooms take such good care of them. The horses get done up everyday, three meals a day, get all the hay they can eat, and still some people think they’re mistreated, but we know they aren’t.

BS: I obviously fully agree, and I think if people came out here in person to actually see for themselves, they’d look at the sport in a different light.

TT: Right out here [pointing to the apron at Chester], this is one of the best tracks to watch a race from. You can be right on the apron, and you’re literally within the an eyelash of a horse. You can hear the horses, you can see the breath coming off them, and you can see the horses come off the ground, up close. Down the lane you can hear us yelling, all fighting for the win.

We need to get people our age like me and you, out here to watch the races. All we need to do is get a fan base, and I don’t care if they bet or not. We just need a fan base. We know people are never going to bet the amount here that they bet up there (where the slots are). We just want them to come here, and check it out. We don’t have fans right now. You look around here, its deserted. It’s a shame. People here are going to play the slots no matter what you do. But this place, they don’t even want the people out here, they want them right up there playing the slots. What we need to do, in our business -- we need to take some of that money and invest it right back in the sport. I keep telling the people in our sport to take some of the money we’re making from the casinos, and put it back into the sport.

BS: [nodding]

TT: I went to the Running Aces track in Minnesota not too long ago; I went to visit my dad because he got hurt recently. And I went to the races one night just to see what it was like. The entire place was packed, the entire apron was packed. There were tellers on the inside, tellers on the outside, and the lines were jammed. They had $1 hot dogs and $2 drafts, and the place was packed. Not top notch horses, not top notch drivers, purses weren’t great, but they weren’t too bad for the horses that they have there. It was just a great time.

It was so cool. I walked in about 10 minutes before the first race, and there was this little girl, and she’s dragging her mom, telling her the horses were going to go off without them. They were all just screaming for the horses there. When they came down the stretch, I got chills just sitting there. It was a fun sight to see.

And this place, you wouldn’t even know this place was here. I was at Philadelphia Int’l Airport last year, and had time to kill before a flight to Lexington. So I go to the bar, and this person about our age comes up to me. I was talking to her for about 10 minutes, and told her I race horses. She said, “My grandfather used to talk all the time about going to see the horses at Brandywine.” And she said, “There’s nowhere here to go, there’s nowhere close.” She had no idea there was even a track here. She continued to say “I’ve been to the (Chester) casino, but there’s no track there.” She didn’t even know there was a track, they have no clue. And if I owned this place, I’d make sure there were TV’s everywhere that shows the horses. At Tioga (Downs), no matter where you go in the casinos, they have TV’s all over that show the horses racing, so you can at least see it.

BS: At age 27, and with your current status as back to back driver of the year, in many ways you represent the future of the sport. And certainly the younger generation of harness racing can most likely relate to you more-so than the older drivers. With being in that unique position, is there anything possible that you can do personally to help the sport?

TT: That’s why I'm here talking to you right now, to do anything I possibly can. I always try to put on a good show, and be very nice to everyone. If there’s a little kid down here, I’m always trying to stop over, say hi, sign autographs, and give my whips away after the races.

I'm just scared that in 10 years we won’t have a sport. We’re in trouble, we are. The current structure is just a band-aid. Because as soon as this casino can figure out a way not to give all this money to us, they’re going to do it. That’s one of the reasons we’re all working so hard. I’m going to make as much money as I can right now. My education is limited, and I’m going to make as much as I can and save it, while we have this subsidy. It’s going to go sooner or later. If I can make 10 to 15 million in purses or as much as I can in the next 5 to 6 years, and save, and try to invest in the right places, I could have 5 years to go back to school if I wanted at some point.

BS: With that being said, what needs to happen to re-build the sport, so that it is still here, and strong in 10 years?

TT: It’s all on the sports shoulders. We have some money now we can run with. For the most part, all the track owners aren’t going to do anything. The Meadowlands is in trouble right now, and we can not lose the Meadowlands. That’s the premier place that we have. It’s a mile track, and people will bet a mile track. People don’t like betting the half mile, and they don’t like betting the 5/8ths mile as much. They don’t feel you have a fair shot at winning. You can draw the 10 hole at the Meadowlands and you still have a shot at winning. If you draw the 8 hole at Yonkers, you’re in trouble unless you’re just seconds the best.

I think its our job to take some of that slot money, and put it back into the sport, and put it into advertising. If these slot tracks (Yonkers, Chester) took even a small fraction out of each nights card and used it for advertising, they could put billboards up all around Philadelphia and New York City. You know, put up a billboard with a big picture of a horse and mention live racing 5 nights a week. Or even a commercial during some of the Phillies games. Take that commercial James (Witherite) put together; the one for 30 seconds where I’m coming down the lane fighting for the win in the (2007) Ben Franklin Pace. Put that right there on a commercial, put it right in front of everyone; “BOULDER CREEK AND TIM TETRICK!” It’s loud, it’s exciting, and someone is going to take notice of it. If you continue to see something in front of you, you’re going to take notice sooner or later. We have to advertise, we just don’t advertise at all right now. You see all these Phillies billboards driving up I-95, there should at least be 1 billboard with a horse. Even if a kid notices it, they can have their parents take them out to see it. Its common sense. There are so many things, so many little things, that would help so much.

BS: Some people say that a problem is that there are too many tracks running right now, too many dates, and that racing should cut back because there just aren’t enough gambling dollars to go around. What do you say?

TT: I don’t think we race too much at all. All these tracks that have 180 days, don’t let them cut back. Let them race 180 days because there are enough horses to go around. I think we should care more and more about the fans, not the gambling. The gambling is going come once you get people out there. If we can get the people to follow it, come out, eventually they will take a betting interest. They’re going to get a program and at least bet $2 on a horse simply because they like the name, that’s how it used to be. If you get all the little gamblers to bet, the pools will steadily go up, and that’s when you’ll get your big gamblers back. Of course, it doesn’t help that the tracks don’t do anything as it is for the people that play there…

BS: You were recently over in Sweden for the Elitlopp, your first time there. And from pictures and videos that I have seen, it’s incredible. What can we learn from racing in Sweden, and what are they doing in that country, that we aren’t doing here?

TT: They advertise! When I went there, and got off the airplane, it was amazing, I couldn’t believe it. They had 8 different newspapers there in different languages. So I just went to pick up the Swedish paper, to see if there is anything in there about the horses. I opened up the paper, and there were 32 pages all about the Elitlopp. And this is on Thursday, two days before the race. All 32 pages were in color, and they had a big picture on the front page of last years winners. Everything was written in Swedish, but I could read wherever it mentioned the Elitlopp. I'm telling you, there was 4 pages just about me, as if I’m the biggest thing since sliced bread. It was about a half hour ride from the airport to the track, and I saw probably 30 different billboards with horses on it. Over there everyone gambles on the v-75 wager. The billboards had pictures of horses; “Elitlopp ’09,” “Clash of the U.S. and Sweden.” It was just amazing and unbelievable that the newspapers had over 30 pages, I couldn’t believe it.

On the day of the race, they had 9 hours of live TV. They played harness racing on TV for 9 hours showing horses, interviews – and here – we’ll be lucky to get 1 hour out of the entire year. Over there they probably don’t have to pay for the TV time or advertising, because the TV stations want them. It’s just a different culture there. Racing is on TV at every bar, it’s in all the newspapers, and those people love it.

And I’m telling you that I had gotten chills on the day even before the Elitlopp, when I saw all the people there. I heard them chanting my name when I won one of the races that day. They were like “TIM, TIM, TIM,” and I could hear them. I never got chills like that; that was the biggest crowd I’ve ever seen.

When I was over there, I went to a restaurant at night in one of the bigger cities right by their capital, it was about 20 minutes from the track. It was similar to one of the nicer restaurant in Philadelphia, on Broad Street in the city. I walk in there, I’m eating, and I felt like I had 10 people walk up to me with newspapers, “ Tim, Mr. Tetrick, would you sign this for me?” I walked down the street when I left, and people were too shy to say anything, but you could hear them whispering, “Look, that’s, that’s Tim Tetrick.”

BS: Sounds like something I would say actually [laughs].

TT: It was like being Michael Jordon in Chicago. They knew everything about me, everything I did, and all my statistics. They’ve been trying to get me to come there for two years, ever since I had that good year. They kept trying to invite horses that I was driving, so that I would come. With Buck I (St. Pat), they told Howard (Taylor) that they wanted her mare to come, and said “We’ll try to get you an invitation, but I can guarantee you an invitation if you can promise Tim Tetrick will come.” I had a limousine pick me up at the airport, take me the hotel, and I went and did autographs and interviews; it was just amazing.

And here, people don’t even know who I am. They have no idea. If you dropped me off here in Philadelphia, I’d be hard pressed to find a ride. I was there for three days; never bought a meal, and never bought a drink. I went to the hotel lobby one night to buy a candy bar, he told me “Here, you’re Tim Tetrick, you can have it.” I'm thinking of moving there [laughs].

Brett Sturman is the lead racing analyst at his harness racing website www.hometrackadvantage.com, and can be reached with any thoughts or comments at his personal email, brett.sturman@gmail.com.

LottaKash
08-11-2009, 08:43 PM
I like Tim Tetrick, always have, and now I like him even more....:jump:

Great Interview, very candid and honest I believe...I really enjoyed it...:jump:

Thanks for providing that Fred....good, good, good...:jump:

best,

botster
08-11-2009, 08:51 PM
BS: Some people say that a problem is that there are too many tracks running right now, too many dates, and that racing should cut back because there just aren’t enough gambling dollars to go around. What do you say?

TT: I don’t think we race too much at all. All these tracks that have 180 days, don’t let them cut back. Let them race 180 days because there are enough horses to go around. I think we should care more and more about the fans, not the gambling. The gambling is going come once you get people out there. If we can get the people to follow it, come out, eventually they will take a betting interest. They’re going to get a program and at least bet $2 on a horse simply because they like the name, that’s how it used to be. If you get all the little gamblers to bet, the pools will steadily go up, and that’s when you’ll get your big gamblers back. Of course, it doesn’t help that the tracks don’t do anything as it is for the people that play there…

Here it is from Timmy himself.Get the people back and they will want the action.The race dates are NOT the problem here, gamblers love to gamble their hard earned cash wherever and as often as they can.

Great interview by the way:cool: .

Sea Biscuit
08-12-2009, 02:16 AM
Great Interview. He hit the nail right on the head when he said that just we don't treat harness racing as any normal business. They expect folks to buy their product without investing a dime in advertisement.

He is right that we should have billboards across North America and ads in newspapers and magazines ( not just horse magazines) and then you will see this business really takes off.

Somebody should send this interview to every harness track owner in NA.

Sea Biscuit.

Ps: And I really like what he had to say about whipping horses and I totally agree with him.

camfella
08-12-2009, 05:58 PM
Great interview,Freddy,somewhat controversial,but deserved and candid.Wonder if any major harness publications will pick it up?Camfella

freddyblu22
08-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Great interview,Freddy,somewhat controversial,but deserved and candid.Wonder if any major harness publications will pick it up?Camfella

Camfella - Unfortunately this was too controversial for the USTA to publish (no surprise there). But this will run as a 3 page feature, along with picture, in the Sports Eye/Harness Eye form this Saturday. I hope that one or two more publications will pick it up, and we'll see what happens...

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 09:45 AM
Camfella - Unfortunately this was too controversial for the USTA to publish (no surprise there). But this will run as a 3 page feature, along with picture, in the Sports Eye/Harness Eye form this Saturday. I hope that one or two more publications will pick it up, and we'll see what happens...

Wow, Fred, imagine, an organization not wanting to hear and share the truth of "one" man's opinion of things, concerning a sport that, that definitely has a need for some change of heart, given the dwindling numbers of fans participating as of lately...Imo, Tim Tetrick, has earned his credibility in this sport, and I don't understand their posture on this...

For those that don't know about the U.S.T.A., it is the United States Trotting Association, the ruling & sanctioning body of Harness Racing.....All tracks play by their rules....

Imo, controversy, especially positive, is just what this sport needs at this juncture of the game....Too bad about their stand on this....I don't agree with it...at all.....I mean, the guy didn't exactly say anything negative about the tracks...

Thanks again Fred, for publishing that.....We want more....:jump:

best,

camfella
08-13-2009, 10:08 AM
Once again LK,you are right on the nail head with your post, the USTA seems to be very "nixonish" when the truth,or someones true feelings and viewpoints cant be published for fear of what?? That it will start a discussion about whateveryone knows,but has no "official" forum to discuss? If we are the consumers of this racing product,do they actually think they can ignore the problems and we wont notice? I think the contributors are very weak, the pablum that we get from the likes of Nicole Kraft and the other columns on the site are a joke to long term fans of the game. Is it aimed at new fans?? I would ask ,what new fans? The sport needs to be promoted before you can have new fans. I would hazard a guess that most of us that are involved and interested , were introduced to the game by a relative,an owner, or a friend who was interested and that further most of us had some hands on interaction to the horses or horsepeople. Before I got involved in the sport,I was aware of the local track,I read ads that said words like "check out the action" and had a picture of horses in a stretch drive. This alone got my attention on the sports page. When a friend asked me if I wanted to check it out,I said yes right away,because of that awareness. That is all that needs to be done, make people aware that the tracks exist,show a little video,it doesnt take much. Camfella

Pacingguy
08-13-2009, 10:31 AM
Great interview. Required reading for all. Why I don't agree with everything that Tim said in his column, in particular with there not being too much racing, he hits a lot of points on the head and speaks the truth.

Horsemen need to step up to the plate to invest in the business. I know they are going to argue the tracks should as well but they won't. Life is not fair so if they want the business to keep going, they need to step up to the plate.

Interesting how Tim is saving up as much as he can in case the business is gone within ten years. While Tim is willing to give up some of that money for the betterment of the sport, I can't help but wonder if many of his bretheren have already given up and just want to hoard as much money as they can knowing this industry will be dead and buried in less than a decade.

It was refreshing how candid he was with regards to Chester. Obviously, he is not worried about being excluded there for his candid remarks. Some tracks would be petty enough to take revenge for such comments but there lies the problem; Chester could care less. The sooner racing is gone the better it is for them.

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 10:51 AM
That's right "Harness Racing Tracks", you've got an entertainment product to sell....So Sell it !!! & Yell it !!!!.....Get in people's faces....

best,

wilderness
08-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Camfella - Unfortunately this was too controversial for the USTA to publish (no surprise there). But this will run as a 3 page feature, along with picture, in the Sports Eye/Harness Eye form this Saturday. I hope that one or two more publications will pick it up, and we'll see what happens...

All somebody needs to do is submit the article to the USTA (Newsroom or otherwise) and I'm sure they would gladly provide the article, however it appears the person who did the interview intended for the article to be published on his website and the USTA (like "some" other websites) would not duplicate copyrighted materials.

freddyblu22
08-13-2009, 11:35 AM
All somebody needs to do is submit the article to the USTA (Newsroom or otherwise) and I'm sure they would gladly provide the article, however it appears the person who did the interview intended for the article to be published on his website and the USTA (like "some" other websites) would not duplicate copyrighted materials.

Wilderness, this was not the case.

I did submit it to the USTA newsroom, and I even removed all references to any other 3rd parties/websites (although I do fully deserve credit for it). But I took the high road and removed all that information.

My ONLY request was that the CONTENT of it, not be edited in any way (I did give permission to edit grammar). Ms. Kraft notified me that due to my "stipulation," it could not be submitted. And honestly, I didn't want them to publish it, in their "sunshine and rainbows" version.

wilderness
08-13-2009, 11:46 AM
<snip></snip>
For those that don't know about the U.S.T.A., it is the United States Trotting Association, the ruling & sanctioning body of Harness Racing.....All tracks play by their rules....


Lottakash,
The USTA (http://www.ustrotting.com/) is not a governing body for either pari-mutuel racing or the fairs, although the majority of the fairs in the US (http://fairs.ustrotting.com/) comply with USTA rules.

Rather, the USTA is primarily a statistical organization.
They do have a set of rules, however local states/provinces regulatory agencies over-ride the USTA Rules (http://www.ustrotting.com/pdf/USTARuleBook.pdf)

A good example of the over-ride of USTA rules was when Walter Case drove at Plainridge in late 2008 (after his release and probation enacted).
Case was not eligible for licensing under USTA Rules (http://www.ustrotting.com/pdf/USTARuleBook.pdf), however since Mass., licensed Case, the USTA was literally forced to follow suit.


Imo, controversy, especially positive, is just what this sport needs at this juncture of the game....Too bad about their stand on this....I don't agree with it...at all.....I mean, the guy didn't exactly say anything negative about the tracks...
....:jump: best,

The USTA has a long standing tradition of avoiding controversy. Their employee's have many stipulations as a condition of their employment, which prevent statements that are against the tradition.
It's imperative that you understand (first and foremost) that the USTA is SIMILAR to many of the Horseman's Associations, at least in the perspective that reason for being is to "represent their membership".
The USTA Membership List (http://www.ustrotting.com/services/pub/describ.cfm) is an annual publication, which may be purchased by anybody (cost is higher to non-members though)

BTW, I read the article/interview and didn't really see anything of controversy, which would prevent USTA Publication.

wilderness
08-13-2009, 11:55 AM
BTW, the USTA has a page (which pleading for questions) named "Ask the USTA (http://askusta.blogspot.com/)"

wilderness
08-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Wilderness, this was not the case.

I did submit it to the USTA newsroom, and I even removed all references to any other 3rd parties/websites (although I do fully deserve credit for it). But I took the high road and removed all that information.

My ONLY request was that the CONTENT of it, not be edited in any way (I did give permission to edit grammar). Ms. Kraft notified me that due to my "stipulation," it could not be submitted. And honestly, I didn't want them to publish it, in their "sunshine and rainbows" version.

If you implement restrictions upon your request, and the article was refused as a result of conditions that you stipulated?
Than that is something you should both accept and understand.

If you believe that a "misunderstanding" has taken place?
I urge you to contact Nicole Kraft and clear up the misunderstanding, rather than alienating yourself from the possibility of future correspondence and/or publication.

BTW, in many instances the USTA compensates writers and photographers for items published on either the website or in Hoof Beats, however in many other instances there are no compensations.

2nd BTW, the USTA and/or Hoof Beats has word-count restrictions on their published articles.
Does yours exceed 5-600 words?
(Even Stan Bergstein whose been writing articles for more than 50-years is required to follow these restrictions).

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 12:16 PM
It was refreshing how candid he was with regards to Chester. Obviously, he is not worried about being excluded there for his candid remarks. Some tracks would be petty enough to take revenge for such comments but there lies the problem; Chester could care less. The sooner racing is gone the better it is for them.

I believe that, currently, there is legislation afoot concerning the "future" of horse racing in Pennsylvania.....Now that the slots have taken root, perhaps there will be an end to the "original intent and promises of revenue sharing" with the tracks....As it is now, with our current National gov't,( lies, deceit, and empty promises), I believe, (state of PA) they "will" reneg on their original laws and end racing in PA forever.....I think that is what Tim Tetrick was alluding to....

I hope this is not the case....

USTA, I hope you are listening, as this is a wake-up call, and, perhaps one day, you will wake up and find that you are governing "nothing at all"....Nothing....

best,

wilderness
08-13-2009, 12:18 PM
4,615 words without considering underlying HTML links.

wilderness
08-13-2009, 12:21 PM
USTA, I hope you are listening, as this is a wake-up call, and, perhaps one day, you will wake up and find that you are governing "nothing at all"....Nothing....

best,

Once again. . . .the USTA is not a governing body.

Local states and provinces and/or their Racing Commissions are governing bodies.

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 12:24 PM
Lottakash,
The USTA (http://www.ustrotting.com/) is not a governing body for either pari-mutuel racing or the fairs, although the majority of the fairs in the US (http://fairs.ustrotting.com/) comply with USTA rules.

Rather, the USTA is primarily a statistical organization.
They do have a set of rules, however local states/provinces regulatory agencies over-ride the USTA Rules (http://www.ustrotting.com/pdf/USTARuleBook.pdf)

A good example of the over-ride of USTA rules was when Walter Case drove at Plainridge in late 2008 (after his release and probation enacted).
Case was not eligible for licensing under USTA Rules (http://www.ustrotting.com/pdf/USTARuleBook.pdf), however since Mass., licensed Case, the USTA was literally forced to follow suit.

Thanks Don, for clearing that up....Apparently, I have been operating under a mis-conception all these years....I really did believe they had the final word and say in rules and fines and such....egg on my face, again....:jump:

Years ago when applying for a "grooms license" in the various states that my stable operated in, I knew that the licensing was through the state of the application, but I believed that it was because it was in compliance with USTA mandates, and it served such mandates.....

You sure are the "go to guy"....I luv ya, Don.....Thx..

best,

wilderness
08-13-2009, 12:45 PM
Years ago when applying for a "grooms license" in various states that my stable operated in, and I know it was through the state of application, but I believed that it was in compliance with USTA mandates, and the states served such mandates....Oh well...

best,

Lottakash,
I'll give you an example of confusion.

In some state's (Michigan, Illinois and possibly others), an owner whom trains his own horse (s) is ONLY required licensing in his state of residence and as long as he confines his racing to that state of residence.

Some of these owners/trainers when shipping horses to other states are not licensed and thus another licensed horseman (USTA or otherwise) is required to be listed.
In many instances, these trainer changes could be misconstrued as a "beard", however technically that's not the purpose.
Many horses are trained into shape and then shipped to the bigger tracks in the east for a series or other short period. There are local trainers in the east that specialize in the training of temporary ship-in's. Ray Remmen is one I see frequently, however there are many others. Believe Southwind Tempo came in to the Elliott barn under this method (can't recall the other trainers name (embarrassed), however he even drove the horse a few times while the horse was in the Elliott barn.)

I'll provide a weird example that slipped through the cracks of the USTA regulations (although more than 25 years ago).
My deceased friend was never a USTA registered trainer. He raced primarily in Michigan and when he shipped to surrounding areas, another was listed as the trainer.
When somebody joins the USTA (whether trainer, driver or other; I'm not positive of all the class stipulations) as a driver or trainer, references are required to sign. I'm not sure if the application states that the reference is required to be a USTA Licensed Reference, however it is likely.
Somebody from the same farm as my friend ask he to sign as reference for both a driver and trainer license. My friend signed and membership was later approved. My friend found this most peculiar ;)

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 12:48 PM
Don, there you go again, sharing good stuff .....take a vacation....:D

best,

freddyblu22
08-13-2009, 12:54 PM
I believe that, currently, there is legislation afoot concerning the "future" of horse racing in Pennsylvania.....Now that the slots have taken root, perhaps there will be an end to the "original intent and promises of revenue sharing" with the tracks....As it is now, with our current National gov't,( lies, deceit, and empty promises), I believe, (state of PA) they "will" reneg on their original laws and end racing in PA forever.....I think that is what Tim Tetrick was alluding to....

I hope this is not the case....

USTA, I hope you are listening, as this is a wake-up call, and, perhaps one day, you will wake up and find that you are governing "nothing at all"....Nothing....

best,

LK, Exactly. In today's Philadelphia Daily News, there is an editorial already, suggesting that revenues from slots be moved away from racing, and more towards making up the budget deficit in the state...

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 12:59 PM
LK, Exactly. In today's Philadelphia Daily News, there is an editorial already, suggesting that revenues from slots be moved away from racing, and more towards making up the budget deficit in the state...


The handwriting is on the wall....What liars, fakes, phoney, & frauds they are....:eek:...just like our current "greedy M-Fin'" gov't

sadly,

freddyblu22
08-13-2009, 01:09 PM
The handwriting is on the wall....What liars, fakes, phoney, & frauds they are....:eek:...just like our current "greedy M-Fin'" gov't

sadly,

here's a real good article, from about a month ago...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=4336689

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 01:26 PM
here's a real good article, from about a month ago...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?
columnist=finley_bill&id=4336689

The trouble is, with those jealous "bastards" that they think that they are going to get any of that "slot money," and they are sadly mistaken.....

All that is going to happen, is to have a lot of people who are gainfully employed by the "horse racing industry", is to become un-employed, adding to the woeful problems of each respective state...

"Greed" (plain and simple)

best,

Pacingguy
08-13-2009, 01:48 PM
The problem is what has racing done to improve itself since it got the slot money? Other than stuffing their own pockets with inflated purses, not a damn thing to improve the sport for the customer.

Slot money is a state subsidy plain and simple. If you were in state government and you had to decide between educating our youth or supplying horsemen that race in front of empty grandstands where would you spend the money? Yes, people will become unemployed, but why keep throwing money at an industry that refuses to retool itself?

DeanT
08-13-2009, 01:56 PM
The problem is what has racing done to improve itself since it got the slot money? Other than stuffing their own pockets with inflated purses, not a damn thing to improve the sport for the customer.


Nothing. People like Tim Tetrick can talk about wanting to whip whenever he wants, wanting to drive 5000 times a year with a proliferation of racedates in the face of zero customer demand, and making more than a surgeon makes in a year. But the bottom line is he is driving in front of no one, handles are microscopic and it will all end very soon.

John Campbell has been extremely proactive on this and other issues - using slot money to grow, cultivating gamblers, offering uniform rules from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, coordinating racedates............ it has all fallen on deaf ears. Most in racing want their slots welfare and want it now, and to hell with the future.

wilderness
08-13-2009, 02:05 PM
The problem is what has racing done to improve itself since it got the slot money? Other than stuffing their own pockets with inflated purses, not a damn thing to improve the sport for the customer.

Slot money is a state subsidy plain and simple. If you were in state government and you had to decide between educating our youth or supplying horsemen that race in front of empty grandstands where would you spend the money? Yes, people will become unemployed, but why keep throwing money at an industry that refuses to retool itself?

Pacingguy,
This has been my gripe with slot's/VLT's all along.

"Subsidy" regardless of where it comes from is ONLY ever to be considered a temporary solution (something the horse racing industry and the state legislators seem to overlook).

As a result, there should have been a 3rd party in the distribution of the profits/revenues/subsidy and that would have to a budget to increase the market share.
NOT a solitary state and/or province has done this properly (since Delaware began 1st), and even the states/provinces that delegated a percentage for marketing, placed a LIMIT on percentage that may be used for racing advertising. On the other hand, the percentage that may be spent for slots/VLT's advertising is considerably higher.

The problem is and has been that nobody is qualified or shows experience in increasing the market share for horse racing.
Where the potential money go and who would be in charge of making the PROPER decision to distribute the subsidy in manner that would assure success?

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 02:06 PM
The problem is what has racing done to improve itself since it got the slot money? Other than stuffing their own pockets with inflated purses, not a damn thing to improve the sport for the customer.

Slot money is a state subsidy plain and simple. If you were in state government and you had to decide between educating our youth or supplying horsemen that race in front of empty grandstands where would you spend the money? Yes, people will become unemployed, but why keep throwing money at an industry that refuses to retool itself?

PnG, sad, but true....Tim may have nailed the other horsemen on that one.....

More like, I got mine, frig you players......That is what Tim referred to, I believe...I like that guy, for his "gutful insighfulness"...It is the truth, I believe...

I suspect, there are many more good and sincere horsemen that feel that way too, it just may be that, they need some direction and leadership in that dep't...

Perhaps, TT could be the start of a new direction....Go Tim !

I love Harness-Racing, and I am very worried about the future, these days....

best,

wilderness
08-13-2009, 02:10 PM
John Campbell has been extremely proactive on this and other issues - using slot money to grow, cultivating gamblers, offering uniform rules from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, coordinating racedates............ it has all fallen on deaf ears. Most in racing want their slots welfare and want it now, and to hell with the future.

Dean,
This has ALWAYS been the way of the industry.

They simply moan, groan and DEMAND the next bolt of lightning out of the sky to assure the continuation.

Expanded races dates didn't save the industry.
Expanded Exotics hasn't saved the industry.
Simulcasting/OTB's haven't saved the industry.

Slots/VLT's will not save the industry.

What's the next bolt?
50-50's or passing the plate at church?

DeanT
08-13-2009, 02:12 PM
PnG, sad, but true....Tim may have nailed the other horsemen on that one.....

More like, I got mine, frig you players......That is what Tim referred to, I believe...I like that guy, for his "gutful insighfulness"...It is the truth, I believe...

I suspect, there are many more good and sincere horsemen that feel that way too, it just may be that, they need some direction and leadership in that dep't...

Perhaps, TT could be the start of a new direction....Go Tim !

I love Harness-Racing, and I am very worried about the future, these days....

best,

LK,

I would have liked to see the interviewer ask him if he was willing to take 4% instead of 5% for his driving winnings and have the other 1% invested in the promo that he is advocating. My guess - a big fat no.

People in harness love to spend money on promoting the sport - as long as it is someone elses money.

wilderness
08-13-2009, 02:20 PM
LK,

People in harness love to spend money on promoting the sport - as long as it is someone elses money.

Hold that thought!

LottaKash
08-13-2009, 02:21 PM
LK,

I would have liked to see the interviewer ask him if he was willing to take 4% instead of 5% for his driving winnings and have the other 1% invested in the promo that he is advocating. My guess - a big fat no.

People in harness love to spend money on promoting the sport - as long as it is someone elses money.

Well Dean, those are the going rates, and the guy can't do it by himself....Perhaps if there were a "grassroots" thing going, maybe the top ones would consider it....I don't know....

Me, I would feel the fool, for giving up a stipend that was "honestly earned". when I was "all alone" in the fight....

best,

Sea Biscuit
08-14-2009, 02:27 AM
LK,

I would have liked to see the interviewer ask him if he was willing to take 4% instead of 5% for his driving winnings and have the other 1% invested in the promo that he is advocating. My guess - a big fat no.

People in harness love to spend money on promoting the sport - as long as it is someone elses money.

My my what a silly thing to say.

Its the big harness track owners who have to come up with the advertising money because its in their interest and their responsibility to promote their respective tracks and not the drivers or the trainers or the grooms who work for the industry.

Sea Biscuit.

Pacingguy
08-14-2009, 07:03 AM
My my what a silly thing to say.

Its the big harness track owners who have to come up with the advertising money because its in their interest and their responsibility to promote their respective tracks and not the drivers or the trainers or the grooms who work for the industry.

Sea Biscuit.

Oh, if it was so simple. You would think the track owners would be responsible. Let's look at Chester. They don't advertise, no one shows up at the track and eventually the state takes the purse supplement away. What happens to Chester? No horses and the slots remain. They make more money than they are now. Then the state adds table games; they make even more money as they become a full casino. The same thing happens at any other racino.

So the owners, drivers, trainers and grooms can hold on to their purse money and not offer a nickel to improve the game waiting for the track owners to start spending their share of the slot revnue and racing will be gone in a few years, Or, they can race for a little less and there may be a fighting chance.

badcompany
08-14-2009, 09:07 AM
Interesting interview but even he doesn't mention lowering takeout.

Horse/Harness racing is supposed to be a beatable game like poker but the takeouts don't give the bettor a fighting chance. If the game had 10% long term winners as opposed to 2%, you'd have word of mouth advertising that horse racing is a way to make money.

Sea Biscuit
08-14-2009, 10:18 AM
Oh, if it was so simple. You would think the track owners would be responsible. Let's look at Chester. They don't advertise, no one shows up at the track and eventually the state takes the purse supplement away. What happens to Chester? No horses and the slots remain. They make more money than they are now. Then the state adds table games; they make even more money as they become a full casino. The same thing happens at any other racino.

So the owners, drivers, trainers and grooms can hold on to their purse money and not offer a nickel to improve the game waiting for the track owners to start spending their share of the slot revnue and racing will be gone in a few years, Or, they can race for a little less and there may be a fighting chance.

Pacinguy: I am not privy and I have not read the terms and conditions in which the state allowed a harness track owner to set up shop with slots and other gaming tables but I am sure there is a clause or two in there which basically says:

No harness track----no slots.

Sea Biscuit.

DeanT
08-14-2009, 11:30 AM
My my what a silly thing to say.

Its the big harness track owners who have to come up with the advertising money because its in their interest and their responsibility to promote their respective tracks and not the drivers or the trainers or the grooms who work for the industry.

Sea Biscuit.

I don't think it is silly at all; it is reality. 50% of pari mutuel revs go to me as a horse owner, as well as to drivers and trainers. 50% of slots revenue go to owners and trainers and drivers too. 50% of marketing should be done by those same people. How we think we can get 50% of all revenues and think someone else should pay 100% of marketing costs is beyond me.

I once was at a conference and said 'since we get 50% why dont we work a deal with tracks and offer to come up with a 50/50 deal to promote the sport, either through lower takeouts, better distribution of the product, and so on'. The response was "it's their track, they should spend all the money", just like you have advocated.

The result? Less slot revenue, just like we are seeing in Pennsylvania right now - and they are looking to cut $100M out of the horse development/breeding fund, not from racetrack revenues. In addition, harness racing at Prairie Meadows is gone. "Let some one else pay for it" is not a policy, it is another nail in harness racings coffin.

It will only get worse, imo, because everyone wants their money, and no one wants to give up a slice to grow.

LottaKash
08-14-2009, 11:48 AM
No harness track----no slots Sea Biscuit.

I believe that "was" the deal......

best,

Sea Biscuit
08-14-2009, 12:15 PM
50% of slots revenue go to owners and trainers and drivers too.

I did not know that. If the above is true, then certainly what you say makes a whole lot of sense.

Sea Biscuit.

DeanT
08-14-2009, 12:28 PM
Hi SB,

In Ontario for example 5% of slots rev goes to purses, and 5% to the track. There is a provision that the track must spend slots money on the venue and so on. I am not sure if you have been to Mohawk lately but you will see the $5M expansion there - that is the track spending slot money on renovations for example; as well the new standardbred paddock at Woodbine is a result of that.

The deal written from there on out is not much. Just revenue in people's pockets and they seem to just fight over it and not give an inch to work together.

wilderness
08-14-2009, 12:36 PM
Maine and Florida have the worse deals.

Florida has no stipulation regarding what goes into the purses, nor any method for the Horseman's Association to negotiate same.

Maine has a negotiated, however it's lower than the others.

The pending OHIO VLT's have NOT laid anything on the table mentioning percentage for purses and/or the ability of the Horseman's Associations to negotiate. Possibly it will be at a later date.

ALL the NY tracks renegotiated last, for the most part and due to the efforts of Jeff Grual.

LottaKash
08-14-2009, 12:51 PM
Maine and Florida have the worse deals.

Florida has no stipulation regarding what goes into the purses, nor any method for the Horseman's Association to negotiate same.

Maine has a negotiated, however it's lower than the others.

The pending OHIO VLT's have NOT laid anything on the table mentioning percentage for purses and/or the ability of the Horseman's Associations to negotiate. Possibly it will be at a later date.

ALL the NY tracks renegotiated last, for the most part and due to the efforts of Jeff Grual.

Perhaps, they are waiting to see what happens next in Pennsylvania....Then maybe get some "no-reneg" clause built into the bills...

best,

wilderness
08-14-2009, 12:57 PM
LK,
In NY and a couple of other places, the Horseman's Associations have a contracted control/stipulation over the simulcast signal, which they may pull in the event there is non-compliance.

wilderness
08-14-2009, 01:00 PM
Perhaps, they are waiting to see what happens next in Pennsylvania....Then maybe get some "no-reneg" clause built into the bills...

best,

One of the OHIO Governor's key issues was in introducing a law which would encourage organizations to pay out the millions for fees and improvements with a legal assurance that the VLT's and their income could not be revoked by litigation.
Seem to recall at one time or another there some limit on "term", however don't recall if it was in the final draft.

Pacingguy
08-14-2009, 04:32 PM
Pacinguy: I am not privy and I have not read the terms and conditions in which the state allowed a harness track owner to set up shop with slots and other gaming tables but I am sure there is a clause or two in there which basically says:

No harness track----no slots.

Sea Biscuit.

That is the way it is now. However, watch what is happening in PA. Once purses get decimated and the top horsemen leave and less people come to the track watch Harrah's and the other tracks make the arguement that there is no sense to keeping racing going; no one shows up. They can make that argument now when they can say betting covers on 5% of the purse expense.

What do you think will happen when the state finally decides they want all the slot revenue going to the horsemen? They can and will change the law.

A law with the state is like toilet paper. Anytime the state decides to flush it down the toilet (change the law), they can and will. So no track (harness or t-bred), no slots is the way it is now. It will change. So keep waiting for the track to spend money on promotion/reducing handle and keep all the money yourself and you will see your safety net (the current law) go out the window.

badcompany
08-14-2009, 05:06 PM
Can someone explain why exactly slots should subsidize harness racing, in the first place?

Shouldn't the sport be able to stand on its own?

wilderness
08-14-2009, 07:00 PM
That is the way it is now. However, watch what is happening in PA. Once purses get decimated and the top horsemen leave and less people come to the track watch Harrah's and the other tracks make the arguement that there is no sense to keeping racing going; no one shows up. They can make that argument now when they can say betting covers on 5% of the purse expense.

What do you think will happen when the state finally decides they want all the slot revenue going to the horsemen? They can and will change the law.

A law with the state is like toilet paper. Anytime the state decides to flush it down the toilet (change the law), they can and will. So no track (harness or t-bred), no slots is the way it is now. It will change. So keep waiting for the track to spend money on promotion/reducing handle and keep all the money yourself and you will see your safety net (the current law) go out the window.

And that is basically what has happened in Michigan horse racing during 2009, and even without any slots present.

1) the racing judges (required by law to be present) are state employee's.
2) Their wages are basically assured by the take-out of the previous year and/or the General Purse Fund.
3) The Racing Commissioner (Governor-term-appointed) is told by the Governor to cut 2009 expenses.
4) The commissioner cuts judges and RACE DAYS (basically abscounding the General Purse Fund), then the commissioner resigns and takes a White House Appointment.
5) The pari-mutuel laws in Michigan were initiated in 1933 and they were changed.

In spite of "guaranteeing" to these companies that their investments (in the hundreds of millions of dollars) would be assured, that same slate could just as easily be wiped clean.
Why then, should any investor hold faith/trust in government?

SansuiSC
08-18-2009, 05:03 PM
You know, some races you’ll have a 1/9 shot, and you might get a break. You’ll leave out of the 8 hole, and someone will let you drop in 3rd. Somebody is giving you that hole, because the next race they might be the 1/9 shot and they’ll be looking for that same hole.

I respect TT's abilitys and the game, but what about the person that bet against the 1/9 shot and is screaming in his head to close the hole to hang the horse out. How is one to know when this "professional courtesy" will be applied? If the race was $1 million purse I bet theres no hole to drop into. Where's the threshold set.
It should have never been mentioned in the interview.

LottaKash
08-18-2009, 05:18 PM
You know, some races you’ll have a 1/9 shot, and you might get a break. You’ll leave out of the 8 hole, and someone will let you drop in 3rd. Somebody is giving you that hole, because the next race they might be the 1/9 shot and they’ll be looking for that same hole.

I respect TT's abilitys and the game, but what about the person that bet against the 1/9 shot and is screaming in his head to close the hole to hang the horse out. How is one to know when this "professional courtesy" will be applied? If the race was $1 million purse I bet theres no hole to drop into. Where's the threshold set.
It should have never been mentioned in the interview.

It is a "wink" thing, and the officials all know this...Always been that way, and always will be....Sometimes the other guy doesn't like the other guy, and that is how I generally find out who likes and helps who....I mark them down...

best,

badcompany
08-18-2009, 05:44 PM
It is a "wink" thing, and the officials all know this...Always been that way, and always will be....Sometimes the other guy doesn't like the other guy, and that is how I generally find out who likes and helps who....I mark them down...

best,

I saw a race, recently, at Yonkers in which Cat Manzi viciously hung out Pat Lachance. I wondered if Cat had a bug up his ass about Pat or Mike.

LottaKash
08-18-2009, 06:03 PM
I saw a race, recently, at Yonkers in which Cat Manzi viciously hung out Pat Lachance. I wondered if Cat had a bug up his ass about Pat or Mike.

That is one to mark down....I am not sure, but if my memory serves me well enough, but, I don't think they don't share any love for each other....:D

best,