Match Race Proposed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SmartyLane]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/52067/zenyatta-rachel-alexandra-match-race-proposed

I am not sure how I feel about this. Two completely different styles of racing for these two. Having never been around or a fan of racing in the times of match races how would this even set up for these two since one is a closer and the other well she just runs horses into the ground.

Thoughts? I can't imagine either owner going for it. I don't think $$ is a problem with either.

[JustRalph]

In a match race, I think Rachel beats her by ten.............

Mattress Mack......... gotta love that guy............

At Sam Houston too............nice place to do it.

[46zilzal]

EVERY major match race this century has been won by the horse ON THE LEAD as a match is cat and mouse NOT racing. STYLE wins these

Even the match races within a race (Noor/Citation, Alydar/Affirmed, Sunday Silence/Easy Goer went to the speed horse unless the distances got too far) Laffit played around with the pace to defeat Spectacular Bid as well

[Java Gold@TFT]

Don't even worry about it - It will NEVER happen. Just floating the idea is a publicity stunt.

[Marshall Bennett]

EVERY major match race this century has been won by the horse ON THE LEAD as a match is cat and mouse NOT racing. STYLE wins these

Even the match races within a race (Noor/Citation, Alydar/Affirmed, Sunday Silence/Easy Goer went to the speed horse unless the distances got too far) Laffit played around with the pace to defeat Spectacular Bid as well
You're beginning to sound like a broken record zilly . Money talks , if the price is right , they'll go . Wouldn't be surprised to see the purse rise further . McIngvale has a reputation of making things work and he's good at it . Wouldn't be a problem for him to draw in co-sponsers knowing the rewards would well be worth the purse . Coverage of the event would be to a broad audience . I don't believe this effort to be a fluke .

[david botsford]

You're beginning to sound like a broken record zilly . Money talks , if the price is right , they'll go . Wouldn't be surprised to see the purse rise further . McIngvale has a reputation of making things work and he's good at it . Wouldn't be a problem for him to draw in co-sponsers knowing the rewards would well be worth the purse . Coverage of the event would be to a broad audience . I don't believe this effort to be a fluke .If he can make that proposal become reality I'll go to Sam Houston and promise to purchase something from his gallery store. This would be best thing for this sport in the last few decades.Put horse racing back on the front page in it's rightful place.Let'm loose for mile and quarter and may the best horse win.

[Wickel]

Wouldn't be fair to Zenyatta. I agress with Moss: the best thing for both mares would be to meet in a regular stakes race.

[onefast99]

Don't even worry about it - It will NEVER happen. Just floating the idea is a publicity stunt.
Exactly a publicity stunt that will keep this guys name in the local news for a few weeks or so. Maybe he should put up the money first so we know he has it and is for real. The idea isn't new and in fact what does it prove if Rachel beats Zenyatta or vice versa? If the BC didn't screw up and had the race in the Northeast you would of seen a great race with these two in it instead of this proposed BS.

[onefast99]

If he can make that proposal become reality I'll go to Sam Houston and promise to purchase something from his gallery store. This would be best thing for this sport in the last few decades.Put horse racing back on the front page in it's rightful place.Let'm loose for mile and quarter and may the best horse win.
this guy has a better shot of aliens landing in his backyard then getting a match race at SH.

[Imriledup]

This will just prove once and for all that Moss is scared of Rachel. How can you turn down a free 800k just for jogging once around the track?

[OTM Al]

As bettors why would anyone here want this? I'd much rather see them in the biggest field possible. Put up a big purse and pay others to race in an invitational format. Then the race is worth both a bet and a watch.

If I was an owner of either of these, I would simply enjoy a couple more minutes in the spot light saying no.

[Imriledup]

Its too bad that these super females aren't owned by different people. We would have seen Zenyatta in the BC Classic last year if DWL trained her.

[stringmail]

She would have never made it to the classic if DWL had trained her.

In the unlikely event that both run in the Woodward, who would go off favored?

It certainly would seem quite the betting opportunity to take a "proven" older male (if there is such a thing in this division) against a couple of super horses trying something new for the first time.

[cj]

Wouldn't be fair to Zenyatta. I agress with Moss: the best thing for both mares would be to meet in a regular stakes race.

In my opinion, that alone tells you which is the better horse. Zenyatta would need help from other horses to beat Rachel, and even then it is highly doubtful.

[Marshall Bennett]

Exactly a publicity stunt that will keep this guys name in the local news for a few weeks or so. Maybe he should put up the money first so we know he has it and is for real.
You should learn more about the man before you speak . He's an extremely respectable man who by the way is worth millions many times over . He doesn't need a publicity stunt . The charitable work he has done in the Houston area alone is second to none . You obviously don't know what you're talking about .

[david botsford]

this guy has a better shot of aliens landing in his backyard then getting a match race at SH.You are right of course on that it's long shot about 500,000 to 1.

[46zilzal]

You're beginning to sound like a broken record zilly . Money talks , if the price is right , they'll go . Wouldn't be surprised to see the purse rise further . McIngvale has a reputation of making things work and he's good at it . Wouldn't be a problem for him to draw in co-sponsors knowing the rewards would well be worth the purse . Coverage of the event would be to a broad audience . I don't believe this effort to be a fluke .


At this point, with IMMORTALITY in joining the 25 or so undefeated major thoroughbreds of all time beckoning, MONEY would be secondary.

To be named amongst Eclipse, Ribot, Nearco, Herod, Flying Childers, Personal Ensign, Middleton, Hickory Ox, Bay Middleton, Crucifix, The Tetrarach, Colin, El Rio Roy, Barcaldine, Tremont, Braham, Pharis, Ajax, St. Simon, Ormonde, Selinta, Prestige or Kincsem does not have a price tag to the serious student of the game.

Even the great Native Dancer , Isinglass, Galopin, Synsoby, and Man O'War were beaten once

[Imriledup]

At this point, with IMMORTALITY in joining the 25 or so undefeated major thoroughbreds of all time beckoning, MONEY would be secondary.

To be named amongst Eclipse, Ribot, Nearco, Herod, Flying Childers, Personal Ensign, Middleton, Hickory Ox, Bay Middleton, Crucifix, The Tetrarach, Colin, El Rio Roy, Barcaldine, Tremont, Braham, Pharis, Ajax, St. Simon, Ormonde, Selinta, Prestige or Kincsem does not have a price tag to the serious student of the game.

Even the great Native Dancer , Isinglass, Galopin, Synsoby, and Man O'War were beaten once

It doesn't matter if you are undefeated if you aren't the best.

[ArlJim78]

match races highly favor the speed horse, it would not be interesting to match up these two which are so disimilar in style. RA would dominate.

I do wish they would meet up on dirt, with a reasonable field to make it honest.
RA does appear to have the edge, but that Apple Blossom race of Zenyatta's was nothing to sneeze at either.

how great it would be for them to compete though? it would be so exciting, I'm not optimistic though.

[46zilzal]

It doesn't matter if you are undefeated if you aren't the best.
All things, historical, distance along with a pace less set up of a match, FAVOR ONE animal. The connections out west would not touch a match race at less than 10 to 12 furlongs to give the west coast lady sone equalizing advantage or stamina.

HISTORY says that Zenyatta would be at a disadvantage. They would be crazy to risk immortality on an match race they could not win.

[Grits]

quote:

"I think it would be good for horse racing, and be good for Houston," McIngvale said Aug. 11. "And hopefully I can make some money on it."

Jess Jackson nor Jerry Moss need the paltry 800K, both having net worths in the stratosphere.

He actually believes Jackson and Moss are going to go for his hot idea promoting Houston and his furniture stores, and making HIM some money?

Is this dude for real???

quote:

McIngvale said he planned to contact the owners of both horses Aug. 11 to review his proposal. The proposed match race was first reported by the Houston Chronicle.

Hope Jess and Jerry, both, have waited by their phones today.:faint: Its almost 6pm, east coast time.

For me, on a side note, the term "review" reads more subtle than "pitch." And too, "not likely," more subtle than "not a snowball's chance in hell."

[Java Gold@TFT]

Anyone remember the great Mattress Mac travesty at Turfway? Let's grab sponsorship of a once respected graded stakes called the Jim Beam and call it the galleryfurniture.com stakes. What a load of crap that was and very shortlived. If he wants publicity for Sam Houston maybe he should consider having the "Texas Derby brought to you by Yum! Brands and galleryfurniture.com". He could run it a week before the KY Derby and then cry about not getting good horses with his $2M purse. This is a joke.

[Imriledup]

match races highly favor the speed horse, it would not be interesting to match up these two which are so disimilar in style. RA would dominate.

I do wish they would meet up on dirt, with a reasonable field to make it honest.
RA does appear to have the edge, but that Apple Blossom race of Zenyatta's was nothing to sneeze at either.

how great it would be for them to compete though? it would be so exciting, I'm not optimistic though.

But then that means Rachel is better.

[Steve 'StatMan']

this guy has a better shot of aliens landing in his backyard then getting a match race at SH.

Legal, Illegal, or Extra-Terrestial?

[46zilzal]

But then that means Rachel is better.
No it means that STYLE, not ability is what wins match races,

Do yourself a favor and read about all the famous match races of history

[Marlin]

You are right of course on that it's long shot about 500,000 to 1.Put me down for $1.:)

[SoCalCircuit]

Unfortunately there really is no way to make this work. Put this on espn and the purse could easily increase to 3, 4, or even 5 mil, but like many have said its not at all about the money at this point. the only way zenyatta could really have a reasonable chance is at 1 1/4 miles. unfortunately zenyatta is purely a closer, and at her age the chances of sherieffs being able to train her to switch up her running style is extremely unlikely. For all of those who think mine that bird was about to catch rachel at the preakness if he had just had a little more ground, imagine if rachel had had no pressure by big drama for the first mile, she wouldve won by a landslide. That's what this match race would be right now. Virtually impossible to make this a fair matchup. Maybe throw the match race on the synthetics and perhaps zenyatta could have a semi chance with atleast the track surface going in her favor. As much as we can hope this is just going to turn out to be last year's Big Brown vs. Curlin...only a dream

[ArlJim78]

But then that means Rachel is better.
It doesn't to me. she may be the better horse, but to me its not because she would likely win a match race.

[BillW]

It doesn't to me. she may be the better horse, but to me its not because she would likely win a match race.

Could the speed bias of most dirt tracks explain the perceived advantage of early speed in match races? :)

[DeanT]

Why do we need a match race when we have the Breeders Cup. They should meet there :rolleyes:

[Bison]

Could the speed bias of most dirt tracks explain the perceived advantage of early speed in match races? :)

Yes, and I think if you ran the match race at DMR with the bias set up against speed, Zenyatta would win going away.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Here's the answer and good for FG trying to step up. Now just throw in a purse increase of $200K for each G-I winner that gets in the gate. I'm sure some sponsor and ESPN could help step that up. Build it and they will come:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/52073/purse-hike-among-louisiana-derby-changes

Fair Grounds has also added a pair of dirt races for fillies and mares, including a new 1 1/8-mile stakes race positioned on Dec. 19 to potentially entice a year-end showdown between Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta, the duo who is widely considered North America’s top two horses in training.

The unnamed Dec.19 race over conventional dirt in a central location currently features a $100,000 purse, but track officials acknowledge that total prize money could increase if a showdown between Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta does materialize.

“Horse racing fans desire to see Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta race against one another, and we’re no different,” Halstrom said. “By positioning this new race six weeks after the Breeders’ Cup World Championships and three weeks after Churchill Downs’ Clark and Falls City handicaps, it gives all parties involved something to consider and opens the door for further discussions. Anything further at this point would be premature and circumstances could be different in four months, but this new race gives us an option to dream.”

[JustRalph]

Why do we need a match race when we have the Breeders Cup. They should meet there :rolleyes:

sure........... I would agree with this.......except for the plastic stuff

Throws a monkey wrench into everything. This falls under the law of unintended consequences

Governing Body makes a decision, and 3 yrs later they screw up the sport so bad that they have cut the entire sport into a third division that won't face each other...........we now have

Dirt................Turf...............and Plastic runners.............

[eastie]

No it means that STYLE, not ability is what wins match races,

Do yourself a favor and read about all the famous match races of history


is this like when seabiscuit had the lead, got passed and looked beaten, and then came again for the win. is this the style that RA would use ?
or Zenyatta ?

[onefast99]

You should learn more about the man before you speak . He's an extremely respectable man who by the way is worth millions many times over . He doesn't need a publicity stunt . The charitable work he has done in the Houston area alone is second to none . You obviously don't know what you're talking about .
The fact that he is trying to get involved in something he has no business being involved in has nothing to do with his charitable work or any other good he does for the needy. He has come right out and said he hopes to "profit" by it. I am sure Jess Jackson would like to do business with this guy and maybe he can name a fine wine after him, something like "mattress melo" a fine wine you drink before retiring for the night on a specially made furnituregallery.com mattress! Your comments have no place on this thread. Enjoy your day.

[onefast99]

You're beginning to sound like a broken record zilly . Money talks , if the price is right , they'll go . Wouldn't be surprised to see the purse rise further . McIngvale has a reputation of making things work and he's good at it . Wouldn't be a problem for him to draw in co-sponsers knowing the rewards would well be worth the purse . Coverage of the event would be to a broad audience . I don't believe this effort to be a fluke .
I am now convinced you must work for him, stop the nonsense this race won't happen at SH, ever.

[onefast99]

quote:

"I think it would be good for horse racing, and be good for Houston," McIngvale said Aug. 11. "And hopefully I can make some money on it."

Jess Jackson nor Jerry Moss need the paltry 800K, both having net worths in the stratosphere.

He actually believes Jackson and Moss are going to go for his hot idea promoting Houston and his furniture stores, and making HIM some money?

Is this dude for real???

quote:

McIngvale said he planned to contact the owners of both horses Aug. 11 to review his proposal. The proposed match race was first reported by the Houston Chronicle.

Hope Jess and Jerry, both, have waited by their phones today.:faint: Its almost 6pm, east coast time.

For me, on a side note, the term "review" reads more subtle than "pitch." And too, "not likely," more subtle than "not a snowball's chance in hell."
He has now officially named it "the Matchress race" patrons at Sam Houston will receive a coupon worth 25% off of his fine line of hand crafted mattresses with either a Zenyatta or Rachel Alexandra matching pillow case. Only the first 30,000 fans will receive this one time promotion. You must be over the age of 18 to receive it and you cannot use the coupon on a previous purchase.:sleeping: well

[Grits]

OneFast, according to the NYDailey News' Jerry Bossert, Mattress Mac can give it up--save his breath, and the time of trainers and owners of Rachael Alexandra and Zenyatta.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/08/12/2009-08-12_rachelzenyatta_match_race_is_out.html?print=1&page=all

Who is this self serving, self promoting, crack businessman kidding? His charitable works are to be commended, certainly. And I'm not questioning them. But, it is more than obvious here, WHO and WHAT, more than anyone else, MacInvale and his idea are attempting to benefit.

Jeez, I'm still laughing at the 800K.

[Marshall Bennett]

OneFast, according to the NYDailey News' Jerry Bossert, Mattress Mac can give it up--save his breath, and the time of trainers and owners of Rachael Alexandra and Zenyatta.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/08/12/2009-08-12_rachelzenyatta_match_race_is_out.html?print=1&page=all

Who is this self serving, self promoting, crack businessman kidding? His charitable works are to be commended, certainly. And I'm not questioning them. But, it is more than obvious here, WHO and WHAT, more than anyone else, MacInvale and his idea are attempting to benefit.

Jeez, I'm still laughing at the 800K.
Wow , how smart you are . The man who sponsors the event wants to benifit . Since when is that not what a sponsor is suppose to do ? You believe the 2 million is a donation of sorts ? Who is this man to think he should profit from this . Shame on him .... get real , both you and onefest . I never gave the idea much of a chance myself but that doesn't diminish the man's character for trying . Btw ( to onefest ) he owns 40 thoroughbreds himself , he's not a stranger to the game .

[Grits]

And consequently, WOW, I beg your pardon, MB I'm not diminishing the man's character. And noted his charitable works accordingly if you'll read my post closely.

What I am saying . . . . . on THIS particular idea, . . . . bottomline . . . . . he's self serving. And its obvious.

It doesn't take a MENSA candidate to realize this, so no, I don't have to be smart, nor does anyone else of average intelligence.

Forgive me, but I assure you, neither do I have no understanding of OneFast's involvement and ownership of horses either.

I think as well, for some reason, you're too close to this topic maybe.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Wow , how smart you are . The man who sponsors the event wants to benifit . Since when is that not what a sponsor is suppose to do ? You believe the 2 million is a donation of sorts ? Who is this man to think he should profit from this . Shame on him .... get real , both you and onefest . I never gave the idea much of a chance myself but that doesn't diminish the man's character for trying . Btw ( to onefest ) he owns 40 thoroughbreds himself , he's not a stranger to the game .
He may have horse and he may have a races that he sponsors and he may have the money and he may be a very giving and charitable man, BUT, no rational person who understands the dynamics of this sport and this particular situation would even have the slightest inkling that it could be pulled off. It's publicity stunt. He gets another 15 minutes of fame and people see how wonderful the galleryfurniture.com franchise is. He's gotten his headlines and they will all be gone in another week (even in Houston).

An October date? A match race while Zenyatta is prepping for the BC and Rachel is in NY trying to make history against older males? No one with even the slightest sense of the gaem/sport/business could ever belive this is anything more than for the publicity for his company. It's also funny how the staff at Sam Houston got right in line behind him.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'd just be curious to see if Mike Smith can keep Zenyatta from being 18 wide in a match race.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

This is no way Zenyatta and Rachel run in a match race. Both sides already said they don't want that, but rather a normal race. Moss already said that they may need to find Rachel after the Breeders Cup if they think they can get HOY. That makes the Fairgrounds idea of having an actual race for them in December a little more plausible than this Mattress guy. If we ever see them race, it'll be AFTER the Breeders Cup, not in September or October, and NOT in a match race.

[46zilzal]

is this like when seabiscuit had the lead, got passed and looked beaten, and then came again for the win. is this the style that RA would use ?
or Zenyatta ?
The horse secured the rail and played with the larger animal. WATCH one of these races and it is very much like a bicycle pursuit race.

I doubt, no matter what Hollywood made it look like, that Seabiscuit was ever headed for more than a jump, if at all. Wolfe kept him WIDE the first part of it to insure the lead and toyed with War Admiral. He NEVER looked beat not in any part of the contest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVT2MPNCqgM

[46zilzal]

is this like when seabiscuit had the lead, got passed and looked beaten, and then came again for the win. is this the style that RA would use ?
or Zenyatta ?
The horse secured the rail and played with the larger animal. WATCH one of these races and it is very much like a bicycle pursuit race.

I doubt, no matter what Hollywood made it look like, that Seabiscuit was ever headed for more than a jump, if at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVT2MPNCqgM

[andymays]

Trainer John Shirreffs says Rachel Alexandra-Zenyatta match race is out

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/08/12/2009-08-12_rachelzenyatta_match_race_is_out.html

Excerpt:

Of course, Rachel's owner Jess Jackson has stated all along that he won't run her over the "plastic" surfaces of California, where Zenyatta flourishes.
Even Shirreffs admits he doesn't like the synthetic surfaces of California tracks."I hate it," Shirreffs said. "It's the worst thing that happened to horse racing."

The trainer is concerned about the heat it generates. "It's like if you're standing barefoot on asphalt," he said. "There are a lot of foot problems on them."
So far at the current Del Mar meeting in California, there have been eight horse fatalities. At Saratoga, a dirt track, there has been one, and that came in a turf race.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/08/12/2009-08-12_rachelzenyatta_match_race_is_out.html#ixzz0NzZs sINZ

[46zilzal]

All of this bravado, and ODDLY for the situation, all this testosterone laced chest thumping reminds me of a fighter from the 80's, A real yokel who thought of himself as a smaller version of Ali with all the bravado and about 10% of the skills. The number one contender was awaiting a match and this one carried on and on waiting for a bigger and bigger pay day while he did a chump of the month club. Funny thing was that one of the chumps beat him soundly and there never was a fight with the number one contender!

if Rachel goes to the Travers, and if Quality Road is ANYTHING close to his GP Derby preps or his Amsterdam, she will have her hands full as this one is NO SLOUCH at all.

Then the talk of match race will be far less audible for sure.

[Imriledup]

Trainer John Shirreffs says Rachel Alexandra-Zenyatta match race is out

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/08/12/2009-08-12_rachelzenyatta_match_race_is_out.html

Excerpt:

Of course, Rachel's owner Jess Jackson has stated all along that he won't run her over the "plastic" surfaces of California, where Zenyatta flourishes.
Even Shirreffs admits he doesn't like the synthetic surfaces of California tracks."I hate it," Shirreffs said. "It's the worst thing that happened to horse racing."

The trainer is concerned about the heat it generates. "It's like if you're standing barefoot on asphalt," he said. "There are a lot of foot problems on them."
So far at the current Del Mar meeting in California, there have been eight horse fatalities. At Saratoga, a dirt track, there has been one, and that came in a turf race.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/08/12/2009-08-12_rachelzenyatta_match_race_is_out.html#ixzz0NzZs sINZ


Of course a match race with a real horse is out, when you can beat tomato cans at 1-9, why race real horses, doesn't make any sense.

[magwell]

Of course a match race with a real horse is out, when you can beat tomato cans at 1-9, why race real horses, doesn't make any sense. Makes a lot of sense if you owned Zenyatta to avoid RA .....also makes lot of sense for RA to avoid QR......:cool:

[Grits]

Andym:lol:

I know you're well intended here regarding the synthetics comment from Shirreffs, but please, check a page back, where I posted this link to the NYDaily News piece earlier.

This one's about a match race in Houston. LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Trainer John Shirreffs says Rachel Alexandra-Zenyatta match race is out

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/08/12/2009-08-12_rachelzenyatta_match_race_is_out.html

Excerpt:

Of course, Rachel's owner Jess Jackson has stated all along that he won't run her over the "plastic" surfaces of California, where Zenyatta flourishes.
Even Shirreffs admits he doesn't like the synthetic surfaces of California tracks."I hate it," Shirreffs said. "It's the worst thing that happened to horse racing."

The trainer is concerned about the heat it generates. "It's like if you're standing barefoot on asphalt," he said. "There are a lot of foot problems on them."
So far at the current Del Mar meeting in California, there have been eight horse fatalities. At Saratoga, a dirt track, there has been one, and that came in a turf race.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/08/12/2009-08-12_rachelzenyatta_match_race_is_out.html#ixzz0NzZs sINZ

[andymays]

Andym:lol:

I know you're well intended here regarding the synthetics comment from Shirreffs, but please, check a page back, where I posted this link to the NYDaily News piece earlier.

This one's about a match race in Houston. LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


Saw it. I Should have checked!

[46zilzal]

Makes a lot of sense if you owned Zenyatta to avoid RA .....also makes lot of sense for RA to avoid QR......:cool:
They are avoiding surfaces MORE than one another, but having seen Quality road when he was sound DESTROY not just beat the best three year olds UP ON OR NEAR the front, Rachel will have her hands full if she tries the boys in the Travers.

[Bruddah]

They are avoiding surfaces MORE than one another, but having seen Quality road when he was sound DESTROY not just beat the best three year olds UP ON OR NEAR the front, Rachel will have her hands full if she tries the boys in the Travers.

46zilzal,I happen to agree with you about QR. However, with those two having simular running styles, it might set the race up for a horse like Summer Bird. Just a thought. I think Mine that Bird might be too far back to win. But Summer Bird might be advantaged with his closer running and closing style.

[46zilzal]

46zilzal,I happen to agree with you about QR. However, with those two having simular running styles, it might set the race up for a horse like Summer Bird. Just a thought. I think Mine that Bird might be too far back to win. But Summer Bird might be advantaged with his closer running and closing style.
Just hope the BIG two don't make the same mistake that Whichone (2 y/o champ of 1929) and Gallant Fox (Triple Crown winner of 1930) made in forgetting that there were TWO other colts (one a mud lover Jim Dandy who an by them at 100/1) in the race and NOT THEM ALONE. That 1930 race is on You Tube

Aloma's Ruler and Conquistador Cielo did the same thing only to be passed by Runaway Groom

[onefast99]

Wow , how smart you are . The man who sponsors the event wants to benifit . Since when is that not what a sponsor is suppose to do ? You believe the 2 million is a donation of sorts ? Who is this man to think he should profit from this . Shame on him .... get real , both you and onefest . I never gave the idea much of a chance myself but that doesn't diminish the man's character for trying . Btw ( to onefest ) he owns 40 thoroughbreds himself , he's not a stranger to the game .
I never said he was a stranger to the game owning 40 SH horses is an accomplishment. I am sure he has won some Grade I events and has been to the BC. Your verbal assault was unprovoked, he can own 300 horse bottom line is none of that has anything to do with a used car salesman approcah to getting Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra to hook up in a match race.

[onefast99]

"rgive me, but I assure you, neither do I have no understanding of OneFast's involvement and ownership of horses either

I think as well, for some reason, you're too close to this topic maybe"[/QUOTE]
You are correct MB must be a worker or close associate of Mr Mattress. As for me 7 years strong in the claiming game, family owned and run stable. Maybe Lambo can post the picture of us in the winners circle for the Regret Stakes won by D'wild Ride. Hopefully a lot more wins to come from this 4 year old mare.

[Cat Thief]

I don't believe in match races (match race killed Ruffian) ... would ruin both horses and as their style is so different I cannot imagine anyone going for that.

[cj]

I don't believe in match races (match race killed Ruffian) ... would ruin both horses and as their style is so different I cannot imagine anyone going for that.

The same exact thing could have happened to Ruffian in a regular race. There is zero proof the match race itself had anything to do with the tragic breakdown.

[onefast99]

The same exact thing could have happened to Ruffian in a regular race. There is zero proof the match race itself had anything to do with the tragic breakdown.
I would much rather run a horse in a match race.

[Marshall Bennett]

"rgive me, but I assure you, neither do I have no understanding of OneFast's involvement and ownership of horses either

I think as well, for some reason, you're too close to this topic maybe"
You are correct MB must be a worker or close associate of Mr Mattress. As for me 7 years strong in the claiming game, family owned and run stable. Maybe Lambo can post the picture of us in the winners circle for the Regret Stakes won by D'wild Ride. Hopefully a lot more wins to come from this 4 year old mare.[/QUOTE]
Incorrect , I've never met the man , though it would be an honor to be associated with him . As for your 7 years strong in the claiming game , family owned or whatever , who gives a f*** . You're the one that decided to take this thread to another level with your sarcasm .

[david botsford]

I'd just be curious to see if Mike Smith can keep Zenyatta from being 18 wide in a match race.He said she spun out on the turn. After reviewing the race I tend to agree looks like the track went out from under her feet more and more i'm believing this to be the case of course one will never for know with certainty.

[garyscpa]

I can tell you that Mattress Mac is a racing enthusiast and a successful promoter. He's exactly the kind of guy we need to help save horse racing. And he's innovative enough to propose a lot of the things that the HANA guys are for (lower takeout, etc.).

All promoters hope to ultimately profit from their promotions. I'm sure he's just trying to provide another option for a match up, and if it helps Houston or him, all the better.

He could have soured on racing; he had a big lawsuit which was mostly settled involving inflated purchase prices and kickbacks (I think Bruce Headley was one of the trainers involved).

[garyscpa]

I never said he was a stranger to the game owning 40 SH horses is an accomplishment. I am sure he has won some Grade I events and has been to the BC. Your verbal assault was unprovoked, he can own 300 horse bottom line is none of that has anything to do with a used car salesman approcah to getting Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra to hook up in a match race.

I think any verbal assault was made by you, onefast.

[ghostyapper]

Looks like gulfstream is trying to get them into the donn next feb. They're hinting at a higher purse.

[onefast99]

You are correct MB must be a worker or close associate of Mr Mattress. As for me 7 years strong in the claiming game, family owned and run stable. Maybe Lambo can post the picture of us in the winners circle for the Regret Stakes won by D'wild Ride. Hopefully a lot more wins to come from this 4 year old mare.
Incorrect , I've never met the man , though it would be an honor to be associated with him . As for your 7 years strong in the claiming game , family owned or whatever , who gives a f*** . You're the one that decided to take this thread to another level with your sarcasm .[/QUOTE]
MB you are the one who brought up the charity work Mr mattress does in texas, and I agreed that is very nice but it still has nothing to do with his publicity stunt to get a match race at SH. As for our success in the claiming game to me it is a very big accomplishment and in fact some of those purse monies have gone to the Chemo Care network in NJ of which my sister is a cancer survivor for all those 7 years. You act like a frustrated attorney, wonder why.

[onefast99]

I think any verbal assault was made by you, onefast.
Yep, and MB is a saint. Go figure.

[garyscpa]

Yep, and MB is a saint. Go figure.

Maybe, maybe not, but Mattress Mac is a local legend down here and he's got plenty of money and doesn't pull stunts to get a few weeks of publicity.

He's a "can do" guy.

[onefast99]

I can tell you that Mattress Mac is a racing enthusiast and a successful promoter. He's exactly the kind of guy we need to help save horse racing. And he's innovative enough to propose a lot of the things that the HANA guys are for (lower takeout, etc.).

All promoters hope to ultimately profit from their promotions. I'm sure he's just trying to provide another option for a match up, and if it helps Houston or him, all the better.

He could have soured on racing; he had a big lawsuit which was mostly settled involving inflated purchase prices and kickbacks (I think Bruce Headley was one of the trainers involved).
Gary maybe you should start a new thread on this guy. You and MB can respond to one anothers love for the man. Fact is he made a statement that got him in every newspaper in Texas and for that matter across the country he got what he wanted publicity. I am sure Jess Jackson picked up the phone and listened to Mcingvales proposal on how he could profit from a match race.:lol:

[onefast99]

Maybe, maybe not, but Mattress Mac is a local legend down here and he's got plenty of money and doesn't pull stunts to get a few weeks of publicity.

He's a "can do" guy.
On that note let's get back to racing. Any nice 2 yo's in Texas this year?

[Java Gold@TFT]

Maybe, maybe not, but Mattress Mac is a local legend down here and he's got plenty of money and doesn't pull stunts to get a few weeks of publicity.

He's a "can do" guy.
Well, he just did. Zenyatta's people treated it like the joke it was. And, it's not all about publicity in Texas. He wanted the big stage again. Do you really believe that anyone outside of Houston even has the guy on their radar? He was getting his name and his brand out on the national stage. He's done it before. Do you even remember all of the jokes when the Jim Beam had to become the galleryfurniture.com stakes back when the internet was in its fledgling stages? Yes, he sponsored a race and put up a bunch of money to get free advertising for his website every time someone mentioned the traditional Derby prep. He's no better than YUM! Brands. Put up the money and get free advertising but of course YUM! still gets their name in every Blood Horse article but Mattress Mac hasn't found a way to get his name in articles lately.

It was a publicity grab from the start and hopefully now that both sides have said "no prayer" that he will move on to his next phase of publicity.

[Stevie Belmont]

Forget it. Don't like the idea of a match race in anyway shape or form.

[garyscpa]

Gary maybe you should start a new thread on this guy. You and MB can respond to one anothers love for the man. Fact is he made a statement that got him in every newspaper in Texas and for that matter across the country he got what he wanted publicity. I am sure Jess Jackson picked up the phone and listened to Mcingvales proposal on how he could profit from a match race.:lol:

No, we'll just use this thread. :kiss:

[onefast99]

No, we'll just use this thread. :kiss:
Cool, does Mattress mack have any nice 2 yo's in training? :sleeping:

[FenceBored]

He's no better than YUM! Brands. Put up the money and get free advertising but of course YUM! still gets their name in every Blood Horse article but Mattress Mac hasn't found a way to get his name in articles lately.


Now, just hold on there, buddy. Don't be knockin' YUM! Brands. Have you even TRIED the cheese curds from A&W with some frosty root beer? MMMMM, you won't even care that your arteries are clogging faster than Dr. Fager at a mile. And that new grilled chicken from KFC is quite tasty. Admittedly the name YUM! Brands is silly, but hey, to paraphrase another brand's catchphrase, 'with a name like YUM! Brands, it's ...' Well, you know the rest.

[onefast99]

Now, just hold on there, buddy. Don't be knockin' YUM! Brands. Have you even TRIED the cheese curds from A&W with some frosty root beer? MMMMM, you won't even care that your arteries are clogging faster than Dr. Fager at a mile. And that new grilled chicken from KFC is quite tasty. Admittedly the name YUM! Brands is silly, but hey, to paraphrase another brand's catchphrase, 'with a name like YUM! Brands, it's ...' Well, you know the rest.
The new grilled chicken breast at KFC has only 4 grams of fat the fried chicken breast has 21 grams of fat, thats yummy. So you can eat the yum brands food and go sleep on a Mack Mattress, that's a match made in heaven.

[garyscpa]

Here are a few quotes from an article in today's Houston Chronicle by Hal Lundgren, in which he proposes a Competition Committee.

"You wonder why it took McIngvale, a man on horse racing's perimeter, to stir serious talk of a match race. “Mattress Mack” owns about 40 thoroughbreds, but his daily obligation is “saving you money” on furniture."

"Without an active committee to build the sport, racing must rely on initiatives from relative outsiders such as McIngvale. If the sport ever wakes up and forms a competition committee, McIngvale would be the energetic person to head it. You know he'd provide chairs and tables for each meeting."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/race/6570647.html

[FenceBored]

Here are a few quotes from an article in today's Houston Chronicle by Hal Lundgren, in which he proposes a Competition Committee.

"You wonder why it took McIngvale, a man on horse racing's perimeter, to stir serious talk of a match race. “Mattress Mack” owns about 40 thoroughbreds, but his daily obligation is “saving you money” on furniture."

"Without an active committee to build the sport, racing must rely on initiatives from relative outsiders such as McIngvale. If the sport ever wakes up and forms a competition committee, McIngvale would be the energetic person to head it. You know he'd provide chairs and tables for each meeting."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/race/6570647.html

I like this quote from the first comment:
This is a stupid article, and if a race happens between these two horses, you can bet it won't be at Sam Houston.

:lol:

[garyscpa]

I like this quote from the first comment:This is a stupid article, and if a race happens between these two horses, you can bet it won't be at Sam Houston.

:lol:

Yeah, it's a little problem we have down here due to the lack of slot machines at the racetrack. They are all hurting.

And, yet, McIngvale is trying to improve the experience, rather than just sit back and criticize it.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Yeah, it's a little problem we have down here due to the lack of slot machines at the racetrack. They are all hurting.

And, yet, McIngvale is trying to improve the experience, rather than just sit back and criticize it.
I was at Sartoga last Sunday and ran into Bobby flay. He was there as an ardent horse fan and owner. he does lots of charity work through his foundations. He owns many upscale restaurant and makes millions (which he spends on his horses too) through the restaurants and his Food Network shows. So, I said, "Hey Bobby, do you think you have a couple of Million dollars to invest in a great horse race?"

He said, "Maybe, what do you have in mind?"

I told him, "You get to sponsor a match race between Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta and put any name you want onto the race."

He says "OK, what's the catch?"

So I told him "It can't be at a NYRA track because of the detention barns. It has to be on dirt and since you are a native NY'er who does a lot of good in the state I thought you could arrange for Finger Lakes to host the race."

He politely smiled and walked away. He doesn't need the publicity and self centered drama that Mattress Mack needs.

[onefast99]

Yeah, it's a little problem we have down here due to the lack of slot machines at the racetrack. They are all hurting.

And, yet, McIngvale is trying to improve the experience, rather than just sit back and criticize it.
Improve what, his bottom line? He could of easily left out the part "and profit from it" that would of made him a lot more credible. Discussion over he tried to pull a publicity stunt and it backfired.

[onefast99]

I was at Sartoga last Sunday and ran into Bobby flay. He was there as an ardent horse fan and owner. he does lots of charity work through his foundations. He owns many upscale restaurant and makes millions (which he spends on his horses too) through the restaurants and his Food Network shows. So, I said, "Hey Bobby, do you think you have a couple of Million dollars to invest in a great horse race?"

He said, "Maybe, what do you have in mind?"

I told him, "You get to sponsor a match race between Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta and put any name you want onto the race."

He says "OK, what's the catch?"

So I told him "It can't be at a NYRA track because of the detention barns. It has to be on dirt and since you are a native NY'er who does a lot of good in the state I thought you could arrange for Finger Lakes to host the race."

He politely smiled and walked away. He doesn't need the publicity and self centered drama that Mattress Mack needs.
Two totally different people one being a very well respected chef and horse owner, the other being a furniture salesman with a huge ego.

[garyscpa]

Two totally different people one being a very well respected chef and horse owner, the other being a furniture salesman with a huge ego.

I've never had any respect for Bobby Flay. No disrespect, either. I just don't think of him much.

[Marshall Bennett]

Discussion over he tried to pull a publicity stunt and it backfired.
Isn't that statement somewhat of a contradiction in itself in that you've stated his motives were a publicity stunt . So how did it backfire ?

[FenceBored]

Yeah, it's a little problem we have down here due to the lack of slot machines at the racetrack. They are all hurting.

And, yet, McIngvale is trying to improve the experience, rather than just sit back and criticize it.

WHAT are you talking about? Slot machines have nothing to do with the article's foolishness. They also have nothing to do with the statement that these two mares (if they meet) will never meet at Sam Houston. If these two owners agree to a race it's going to be at a top tier track, because the prestige of the track is going to be part of the sales package.

[fmolf]

WHAT are you talking about? Slot machines have nothing to do with the article's foolishness. They also have nothing to do with the statement that these two mares (if they meet) will never meet at Sam Houston. If these two owners agree to a race it's going to be at a top tier track, because the prestige of the track is going to be part of the sales package.
I agree it will be at a major track or tracks.Here is my idea for what its worth.A series of three match races one a month or so.A turf race at keeneland or arlington,a dirt race at belmont or churchill and a polytrack race at santa anita or hollywood.Each track would put up a purse,each owner a half mil and winner of two of three gets the mil.

[onefast99]

I've never had any respect for Bobby Flay. No disrespect, either. I just don't think of him much.
I guess a mattress slinging salesman is more your type. Time to get out of the state and see what's around you. You would be amazed!

[onefast99]

Isn't that statement somewhat of a contradiction in itself in that you've stated his motives were a publicity stunt . So how did it backfire ?
Because no one paid any attention to him but a few nuts like you and gary, case closed you lost your appeal.

[onefast99]

I agree it will be at a major track or tracks.Here is my idea for what its worth.A series of three match races one a month or so.A turf race at keeneland or arlington,a dirt race at belmont or churchill and a polytrack race at santa anita or hollywood.Each track would put up a purse,each owner a half mil and winner of two of three gets the mil.
Rachel isn't getting on the synthetic if she was they would meet in the BC.

[Marshall Bennett]

Because no one paid any attention to him but a few nuts like you and gary, case closed you lost your appeal.
There ya go again , you've paid a lot of attention to it . You just keep shooting yourself in the butt , and you call me a nut . You're a fool . Keep up the good work .

[onefast99]

There ya go again , you've paid a lot of attention to it . You just keep shooting yourself in the butt , and you call me a nut . You're a fool . Keep up the good work .
I paid attention to your idiotic statements throughout this thread give it a rest now counselor, your court days are over.

[Marshall Bennett]

I paid attention to your idiotic statements throughout this thread give it a rest now counselor, your court days are over.
I'm letting it rest out of respect to this board , my opinion of you is firmly planted ... case closed !!

[PaceAdvantage]

They are avoiding surfaces MORE than one another, but having seen Quality road when he was sound DESTROY not just beat the best three year olds UP ON OR NEAR the front, Rachel will have her hands full if she tries the boys in the Travers.She can just hang back off of QR...she doesn't need to duel or be on the lead to run her best race. That has been proven already.

[PaceAdvantage]

Because no one paid any attention to him but a few nuts like you and gary, case closed you lost your appeal.I love it when two knuckleheads start calling each other names on a message board.

It's so original...so entertaining...so worthwhile....

[onefast99]

I love it when two knuckleheads start calling each other names on a message board.

It's so original...so entertaining...so worthwhile....
At least I stayed within the original context of the thread.:confused:

[PaceAdvantage]

At least I stayed within the original context of the thread.:confused:I'm just trying to get everyone to see the silliness in it all...didn't mean to single you out.

[sarcastic answer]

At least I stayed within the original context of the thread.:confused:

Careful onefast, Bobby Flay is gonna show up for a Throw down!!!!

[onefast99]

Careful onefast, Bobby Flay is gonna show up for a Throw down!!!!
Bobby Flay wouldn't give Macingvale aka mattress mack the time of day.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Onefast,

I've been away from the board for awhile. How are your horses doing this yr?

[Relwob Owner]

I love it when two knuckleheads start calling each other names on a message board.

It's so original...so entertaining...so worthwhile....


Does it remind you of this post of yours, calling someone a smart ass and moron???? :eek:


Listen smart ass, when I get sued, I'm sure I can count on you to stand right by my side and/or donate generously to my defense fund...yeah right!

People who think this is some free-for-all or some place where they can just make shit up or post whatever they want are sadly mistaken.

Only a moron would look at what I wrote and conclude that this has something to do with some imagined affinity I might have for IEAH.

The only one I'm looking out for here in this instance is #1.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Does it remind you of this post of yours, calling someone a smart ass and moron???? :eek:


Listen smart ass, when I get sued, I'm sure I can count on you to stand right by my side and/or donate generously to my defense fund...yeah right!

People who think this is some free-for-all or some place where they can just make shit up or post whatever they want are sadly mistaken.

Only a moron would look at what I wrote and conclude that this has something to do with some imagined affinity I might have for IEAH.

The only one I'm looking out for here in this instance is #1.

I was the one who elicited this response from Pace. I am a smart ass, but the moron comment really hurt until I realized the BWM had done it to me.

[onefast99]

Onefast,

I've been away from the board for awhile. How are your horses doing this yr?
Very good we have 3 going at Saratoga 9-4 thru 9-5. A few new babies just getting to the track in the next 20 days or so.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Very good we have 3 going at Saratoga 9-4 thru 9-5. A few new babies just getting to the track in the next 20 days or so.

Best of luck.

[lamboguy]

match races highly favor the speed horse, it would not be interesting to match up these two which are so disimilar in style. RA would dominate.

I do wish they would meet up on dirt, with a reasonable field to make it honest.
RA does appear to have the edge, but that Apple Blossom race of Zenyatta's was nothing to sneeze at either.

how great it would be for them to compete though? it would be so exciting, I'm not optimistic though.it usually does favor the speed horse, but in this case due to zenyatta's wide running style along the far turn it just might help her.

both filly's are great, and the longer this topic gets hyped the better for horseracing. this topic is sure to bring out some heated discusion because of the contrasting facts between the 2 horses and training styles from 2 terrific trainers.

[Marshall Bennett]

it usually does favor the speed horse, but in this case due to zenyatta's wide running style along the far turn it just might help her.
I've wondered the same thing when a few said that she needed a full field . Without any traffic she could hug the rail for most of the race and not lose any ground , especially in the last turn . A race of 1 1/4 mile or even further would fit her style regardless , but in my opinion would benefit her even more against a single opponent . The race will likely never happen , just a thought .

[Java Gold@TFT]

I've wondered the same thing when a few said that she needed a full field . Without any traffic she could hug the rail for most of the race and not lose any ground , especially in the last turn . A race of 1 1/4 mile or even further would fit her style regardless , but in my opinion would benefit her even more against a single opponent . The race will likely never happen , just a thought .
Solution: BC F&M Turf. No surface advantage. No style advantage. Distance not a problem. Breeders Cup Championship race in California. But then again, like the match race idea - snowballs chance in hell.

[46zilzal]

it usually does favor the speed horse, but in this case due to zenyatta's wide running style along the far turn it just might help her.

both filly's are great, and the longer this topic gets hyped the better for horse racing. this topic is sure to bring out some heated discusion because of the contrasting facts between the 2 horses and training styles from 2 terrific trainers.
History over the past CENTURY produces ONE CONSISTENT FACT: in just about ALL match races, the first one out of the gate gets position and dictates the race. IF you have a speed ball, LENGTHEN the distance to TRY and eliminate the physical exertion advantage that the pace setter has, OR, run it on SYNTHOCRAP.

[PaceAdvantage]

Does it remind you of this post of yours, calling someone a smart ass and moron???? :eek:


Listen smart ass, when I get sued, I'm sure I can count on you to stand right by my side and/or donate generously to my defense fund...yeah right!

People who think this is some free-for-all or some place where they can just make shit up or post whatever they want are sadly mistaken.

Only a moron would look at what I wrote and conclude that this has something to do with some imagined affinity I might have for IEAH.

The only one I'm looking out for here in this instance is #1.I stand by my comment 100%. He was being a smart ass, and as it turns out, also a moron.

Only the rare few who deserve this special attention from me get this kind of treatment. I think if you're being fair, you know I very rarely call fellow members of this board names, unless they are retreads (posting under more than one name, or coming back under another name after being banned).

[rokitman]

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4709049/MasterLock-main_Full.jpg

THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED

[FenceBored]

Sam Houston is still working to make this a reality, but now not as a match race, but as "a race of consequence."

The race developing at SHRP — the Dec. 5 Gallery Furniture Distaff — would seek the two stars and additional entrants.http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/race/6588861.html

[maryforney]

I've been doing a video poll on my blog asking people if they'd like to see a match race.
Trainer Mel Stute and jockey agent Alex Purcell weighed in via my video poll. (http://maryforney.blogspot.com/2009/08/match-race-buzz-zenyatta-vs-rachel.html)

[Imriledup]

Great stuff Mary.

[maryforney]

Trainer Jim Cassidy gives his opinion on my video poll. (http://maryforney.blogspot.com/2009/08/zenyatta-vs-rachel-alexandra-trainer.html)

[lamboguy]

if you are going to have a match race, you better include ICON PROJECT. she is one nice filly from the same people that brought you CHIEF"S CROWN and CHRISSIE EVERETT.

[sarcastic answer]

if you are going to have a match race, you better include ICON PROJECT. she is one nice filly from the same people that brought you CHIEF"S CROWN and CHRISSIE EVERETT.

Match races are 2 horse affairs???

[Java Gold@TFT]

CHRIS EVERT already won a match race so I don't think she'll be available to help train. :lol:

[onefast99]

Sam Houston is still working to make this a reality, but now not as a match race, but as "a race of consequence."


The race developing at SHRP — the Dec. 5 Gallery Furniture Distaff — would seek the two stars and additional entrants.http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/race/6588861.html


It isn't going to happen at SH.