saratoga=great meet

[lamboguy]

this meet has been one powerhouse meet this year. every race is loaded on a campetetive stand point.

the weekend handles were $23million for saturday and $16million for sunday.

these are not great handles for what was offered though. maybe sunday was on the light side because ZENYATTA was running in DEL MAR. the point i am trying to make is when you have a showcase like SARATOGA, and a product that is totally unreal this year the handles should be quadruple these numbers. i hope this is a wakeup call to all of racing to know that there is a systemic problem in the racing industry that needs to be addressed immediately.

[Imriledup]

The bigger the handles, the more meat on the bone.

Hong Kong can do it, why can't we?

[lamboguy]

The bigger the handles, the more meat on the bone.

Hong Kong can do it, why can't we?it seems that the way racing is structured today we will never be able to increase handle. as far as i can see they are working overtime to decrease the handle and lose potential interested customers in the spot.

which ever way you want to look at this game people feel that the integrety of the sport is being compromised, maybe truth or maybe no truth. but why leave any doubt in people's minds. when they see a problem on the NASDAQ it gets adressed. in the racing game it gets swept under the rug. no beats the stock market or commodities yet when they get cleaned out they go back home and try to find a way to come up with some more money to bet the financial game. in horses today they just walk away and don't come back.

the financial game decreased the takeout by lowering commisions. they got plenty of action. in racing they raised the takeout, they now have less handle.

when a horse runs bad the people involved must explain why the animal ran bad. if the horse runs a different race than the last one someone must explain.the explanation's better be good ones or they get kicked out of the game after a few infractions.

i could write 100 pages on how to create $100 million handles at saratoga each and every saturday. i really don't think anyone wants to listen or they just might be afraid of what i have to say.

[badcompany]

The Saturday 08/11 card had back to back Maiden Claiming races, and a total five Claiming races. That fact doesn't make the term "Powerhouse" come to mind.

[Imriledup]

it seems that the way racing is structured today we will never be able to increase handle. as far as i can see they are working overtime to decrease the handle and lose potential interested customers in the spot.

which ever way you want to look at this game people feel that the integrety of the sport is being compromised, maybe truth or maybe no truth. but why leave any doubt in people's minds. when they see a problem on the NASDAQ it gets adressed. in the racing game it gets swept under the rug. no beats the stock market or commodities yet when they get cleaned out they go back home and try to find a way to come up with some more money to bet the financial game. in horses today they just walk away and don't come back.

the financial game decreased the takeout by lowering commisions. they got plenty of action. in racing they raised the takeout, they now have less handle.

when a horse runs bad the people involved must explain why the animal ran bad. if the horse runs a different race than the last one someone must explain.the explanation's better be good ones or they get kicked out of the game after a few infractions.

i could write 100 pages on how to create $100 million handles at saratoga each and every saturday. i really don't think anyone wants to listen or they just might be afraid of what i have to say.

Speaking of 100 pages on good ideas, did anything ever come of that horseplayers panel who wrote up all these recommendations for the industry? Did any of those ideas ever get implemented?

[Java Gold@TFT]

And to think that some people posting here actually bashed NYRA for the innovative purse structure to get more horses in the gate. I know at least one nw1x allowance went off with a purse of $80,000. Those races are going to keep the stalls full and the gates full. It can only be a good thing.

And as to the other comment. The fact is that every horse on the track is not a graded stakes horse or a $1M baby. Trainers still have to pay the bills and they will carry some horses in their barns who will be competitive in the claiming ranks. Campo does his best to card races for these horses as well but goes stronger on days when there is a G-I on the card.

Last report was that if things go the way they have so far then NYRA will turn its first profit in years at Saratoga.

[RichieP]

The Saturday 08/11 card had back to back Maiden Claiming races, and a total five Claiming races.

"Bad Co"

I'd love to see what would happen to the handle numbers at the Spa if they tried this one time (of course track mgmt and racing sec have to work together):

At least 2 weeks in advance advertise and get the word out everywhere round the net that there will be a "No Maidens Weekend" where the Saturday and Sunday cards at Saratoga will be carded with no maidens.

What's great is the the entries and pps have been available well in advance and cappers everywhere I think would go berserk in all the pools/wagers.

If they did 23 mil this past Sat with basically 1/3 the card maidens my feel is they do at least 20% more handle (quite possibly MUCH more) leaving out the maidens.

I think a weekend handle total upwards of 70 million clams is a real possibility if the weather cooperated and the grass races "go".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI
:)

[Rapid Grey]

With a somewhat short meet I prefer Saratoga spreading out the stake races rather than the fuller card like some tracks do. At Arlington this past Saturday a thought they should have saved the 2 yo stakes for perhaps Sunday or the following weekend. Seemed anti-climatic to have a stake race after the Million.

Every track has the bottom level runners, nothing wrong with sprinkling them in where they can.

[Bochall]

Agree with most of ya'll here that Saratoga does offer great cards. Just look at the number of P6 carryovers we've had. That is indicative of a tough and competitive card (some may say a cheap inscrutable card, but...). Look, we've all come to accept in some way the state bred/Mdn garbage that permeates most racecards (it's the n2l races that I hate!). In fact, the NY state bred colony isn't bad. Try a La. or Pa. bred Clm 3500n2l and you've got a mess. If the fare at Saratoga ain't good enough then what do you do the rest of the year? Bet only Royal Ascot, Keeneland, and Longchamp or something like that? Yeah, the "great cards" of today may not compare to yesteryears' but it's the best we've got, and that's cool with me.....for now.

[46zilzal]

Saratoga is what racing should be all about. Not phoney promotions to get the crowd there. THEY know what it is all about: THE HORSE and nothing else....

The best of the best meet and has been for years.

[badcompany]

"Bad Co"



If they did 23 mil this past Sat with basically 1/3 the card maidens my feel is they do at least 20% more handle (quite possibly MUCH more) leaving out the maidens.

I think a weekend handle total upwards of 70 million clams is a real possibility if the weather cooperated and the grass races "go".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI
:)

That would work for me as I'm not a big fan of Maiden races, especially claimers, but, what I would really like to see is a "10% Takeout" day on every type of bet and see what that does to the handle.

[OTM Al]

"Bad Co"

I'd love to see what would happen to the handle numbers at the Spa if they tried this one time (of course track mgmt and racing sec have to work together):

At least 2 weeks in advance advertise and get the word out everywhere round the net that there will be a "No Maidens Weekend" where the Saturday and Sunday cards at Saratoga will be carded with no maidens.

What's great is the the entries and pps have been available well in advance and cappers everywhere I think would go berserk in all the pools/wagers.

If they did 23 mil this past Sat with basically 1/3 the card maidens my feel is they do at least 20% more handle (quite possibly MUCH more) leaving out the maidens.

I think a weekend handle total upwards of 70 million clams is a real possibility if the weather cooperated and the grass races "go".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI
:)

Except those of us who rather like betting maiden races that is. I would not play the vast majority of races on such a card and there are many other players out there that would be the same. Mixes are good because they give something for everyone. Everyone specializes (or should) in something, so really you would just be moving the money around

[Java Gold@TFT]

"Bad Co"

I'd love to see what would happen to the handle numbers at the Spa if they tried this one time (of course track mgmt and racing sec have to work together):

At least 2 weeks in advance advertise and get the word out everywhere round the net that there will be a "No Maidens Weekend" where the Saturday and Sunday cards at Saratoga will be carded with no maidens.

What's great is the the entries and pps have been available well in advance and cappers everywhere I think would go berserk in all the pools/wagers.

If they did 23 mil this past Sat with basically 1/3 the card maidens my feel is they do at least 20% more handle (quite possibly MUCH more) leaving out the maidens.

I think a weekend handle total upwards of 70 million clams is a real possibility if the weather cooperated and the grass races "go".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI
:)
Richie, I just looked at all of the pools for the last two days at Saratoga. I don't have the time nor inclination to do a statistical analysis of the pools but just giving it a cursory lookover I would say that the size of the pools in maiden races are equal to or bigger than pools for high priced allowance and stakes races. I'm just looking at the Mutual pool, exacta pool, and trifecta pool as those are common for every race. Maybe someone else can crunch this small sample quickly but I don't see that a maiden race makes the slightest dent in handle, whether it's 2yo's, claimers or statebreds.

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant_pdf.cgi?type=inc&country=USA&track=SAR&date=2009-08-10&race=0

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant_pdf.cgi?type=inc&country=USA&track=SAR&date=2009-08-09&race=0

On Sunday the two maiden races in the 7th and 11th had a combined mutuel pool higher than the two graded stakes races on the card. How is your idea going to generate twice the handle since the maidens are already generating a big number even if you don't like them?

[badcompany]

On Sunday the two maiden races in the 7th and 11th had a combined mutuel pool higher than the two graded stakes races on the card. How is your idea going to generate twice the handle since the maidens are already generating a big number even if you don't like them?


I think a bit can read between the lines, here. After the 7th, people start leaving and the ones who remain have less money. So, I think smaller pools in later races is more a function of a smaller crowd.

But, what about the 11th? Fair question.

The 11th is the last race. The remaining people tend to "send it in" in order to get even or simply because it's their last bet.

That said, from the crowd I saw at 'Toga on the 1st weekend, most didn't care what type of races were being run. They just wanted to have a good time and empty out several beer cans.

[Imriledup]

I think a lot of this is because there are too many cowardly bettors here in the states. People from some other countries where the pools are HUGE aren't afraid to put their money where their mouth is, people here talk a big game and step up and bet 2 dollars, this is why the pools are really small in America, lots of talk, not much action.


You listen to the mouths of some of these Know it all's at simulcasting and they spread their feathers and go up and bet 2 wps it surprises you because the way they talk, you'd think they were risking a few grand per race.

[Java Gold@TFT]

I think a bit can read between the lines, here. After the 7th, people start leaving and the ones who remain have less money. So, I think smaller pools in later races is more a function of a smaller crowd.

But, what about the 11th? Fair question.

The 11th is the last race. The remaining people tend to "send it in" in order to get even or simply because it's their last bet.

That said, from the crowd I saw at 'Toga on the 1st weekend, most didn't care what type of races were being run. They just wanted to have a good time and empty out several beer cans.
Well, in part you made my point. Handle and pool size would probably not be affected by omitting maiden races. And the people more worried about drinking beer aren't generally the ones who bring the percapita up to $150/day. Even when drunk and having a good time they probably spent as much on their beer and food as they pushed through the windows. This is coming from someone who sits in the paddock by the Big Red Spring but watches the races from upstairs in the Clunhouse. I see both ends of the spectrum in every race. As far as the last race theory, I have seen it go both ways. Some people leave early and others arrive late. The ones I have known to try to "get out" for the day tend to put their money in the tri and super pools after their P-4's are dead. Still the general mutuel pool was higher at the same time. It's kind of a dual edged sword. I just can't see that eliminating maiden races would have a big positive effect on handle. JMO.

[Space Monkey]

The only maiden races I bet seriously are for 3,4,and 5 yr olds where you have actual form to consider. The problem with Sar is that its 2 yr old season and they have plenty of those races on almost every card. I generally will only seriously bet 4 or 5 races, tops, on an average card. I also don't seriously bet races where there are prohibitive favorites unless I believe they are vulnerable. Even if you're a breeding expert, 2 yr old maidens are a guessing game. The Spa draws the top horses and most of the time its hard to find value when they run. I think these factors also contribute to the erratic handle.

[Java Gold@TFT]

The only maiden races I bet seriously are for 3,4,and 5 yr olds where you have actual form to consider. The problem with Sar is that its 2 yr old season and they have plenty of those races on almost every card. I generally will only seriously bet 4 or 5 races, tops, on an average card. I also don't seriously bet races where there are prohibitive favorites unless I believe they are vulnerable. Even if you're a breeding expert, 2 yr old maidens are a guessing game. The Spa draws the top horses and most of the time its hard to find value when they run. I think these factors also contribute to the erratic handle.
Actually if you follow 2yo races they have been quite hittable so far this year at Saratoga. With all of the rain this summer in NY a lot of trainers lost develeopmental time during the Belmont meet. Due to that there were a lack of entries and the number of 2yo races actually run was way down. That said the 2yos' being developded at Churchill have been very reliable. One key race has already produced 5 more winners next time out including the horse that finished 6th who won at Saratoga atabout $18. There are also some strong trainer patterns in baby races, especially certain trainers with 2nd time starters no matter what the first start looked like. I'll agree that the 2yo turf sprints are tough but the 1 mile and 8.5F races aren't bad. Workout patterns are also a strong indicator. Not just the times but the distances and spacing of the works. Like any horse if one has been training evry 7 days and then all of a sudden there is a 15 day gap you need to do a little work to see if the horse missed a race or weather the track was sloppy and the trainer just stayed in the barn. Like anything else in racing, due dilligence pays off.

[JustRalph]

I think a lot of this is because there are too many cowardly bettors here in the states. People from some other countries where the pools are HUGE aren't afraid to put their money where their mouth is, people here talk a big game and step up and bet 2 dollars, this is why the pools are really small in America, lots of talk, not much action.


You listen to the mouths of some of these Know it all's at simulcasting and they spread their feathers and go up and bet 2 wps it surprises you because the way they talk, you'd think they were risking a few grand per race.
:lol: :lol:

That's right............American's are Cowards!!! :lol:

[Imriledup]

:lol: :lol:

That's right............American's are Cowards!!! :lol:

That's not what i said.

[Tom]

Saratoga is what racing should be all about. Not phoney promotions to get the crowd there. THEY know what it is all about: THE HORSE and nothing else....

The best of the best meet and has been for years.

The Horse, and the hats, and the other give-a-ways, and the picnics, and the parties all night, andicap's cooler full of beer, and of course, the mixed-breed racing.....:D

[Tom]

And of course, those really fast breaking two year olds!:eek:

[Onion Monster]

That damn giant rat never breaks well.

[BUD]

The Spa Must be doing the right thing for a long time- I have old Italian Aunts. They call see how Buds doin--They tell me off their trips up to the spa when they were Younger- Damn the stories----My Dad's Best friend Passed-He used to visit the Spa--He gave me some nice Pics--

I think what I am saying is Saratoga has that Broad reach--Now I am sure my Aunts were not the Bettors-- But my Old Time Uncles were the Action--But they had a great great time---SOB the Oldies now that I tell them The Racing is on TV--Are watching Saratoga--My Aunt Lena was in Tears reminiscing the Times with My Uncle Al-Up State-I was surprised what she knew---She even asked about Harvey!--She said Oh How Uncle Al Loved him--Loved his horses and his Time in Saratoga--

They Must be doing it right and Have been doing it right--

Hope God Gives me the Strength to see what its all about.

Peace folks

[BUD]

I meant to say That My Great Aunt Lena who took in much time in The Spa is 90' something. My other Aunt who has very fond memories is like us--Early 60's
She wont be in attendence this year skin Cancer----But Good Lord Willing we will both be there next year--

I knew None of this-----This place is like Disney for Good Fellas' That was Lena's Words---She said it with affection and no malice--

Sorry about the long stories--I thought the connection was great.

[KingChas]

The Horse, and the hats, and the other give-a-ways, and the picnics, and the parties all night, andicap's cooler full of beer, and of course, the mixed-breed racing.....:D

Tom,was that the race the vet scratched you at the gate? :D

Here's a rarity at the Spa.
As of this post the Drf still has the 2B Proud Zoe entered in tomorrows 8/13 2nd race.
2yo msw-Pletcher entry.
Proud Zoe broke her maiden on Monday 8/10 in the 2nd.
Horny little bugger, huh? :confused: :lol: