TRN History?

[smf]

The best thing to ever happen for serious race fans appears to be on life support, if that.

I turned on my teevee hoping to see DeL park and all I'm getting is/ are track feeds from Philly, RKM, Ohio.

I went to the website of trn and looks like they're ready to close up shop.

Too bad is all I can say. TRN put tvg to shame. TRN showed full cards, tvg doesn't. Hopefully something comes along soon to take the place of TRN.

Too bad.

[Rick Ransom]

Damn! I was thinking about getting a satellite dish to get some real racing video instead of this choppy internet stuff. But I understand why TRN might be in trouble. TVG comes with the standard programming and TRN doesn't (I think it's 24.99 a month more). Guess which one I was going to try first?

[smf]

Rick,

I've made mention here long ago that the reason I always did better at LAD & FG (turf) than I did at LS was b/c I could replay the races from TRN (for the La tracks) and make my own trip notes. You can catch a LOT of errors in pp's by chartcallers. Other folks c/ have the charts... seeing is believing, imo.

Also, I wasn't roasting under the sun and standing in line to make wagers with TRN, but the taping of races and getting real time odds was an advantage I hate to see go out the window.

[Rick Ransom]

smf,

I'm sorry to see them go too. What I'd really like though is if we could get all of the tracks through one source at an affordable cost and have them cover the races adequately. We probably wound up with the wrong winner here, but maybe if TVG gets a monopoly, they'll improve service because they'll be more profitable. And we'll also have something else to bet on "when pigs fly".

[GR1@HTR]

http://www.trn.com/usa/index.asp

[Rick Ransom]

GR1,

I don't think I'd want to know TVG's mission statement. Are there any other players who might want to step in and fill the gap?

[andicap]

I cover the cable and satellite TV industries for a living so I have a perspective on this:

The truth is there aren't enough horseplayers to support more than 1 such product. It was outrageous to think enough people would pay that much money to support a business model. I guess TRN thought it could also goose its handle at the racetracks it owned.
There just aren't that many racing fans out there and people who go on a recreational basis aren't going to shell out money to watch a generic feed that only appeals to us nuts.
Here's a true story (that I might have told here before):
When I went to Chicago in June only Hawthorne was open. My brother, who likes Arlington, refused to go and said if I wanted to go to the seedier Hawthorne than I must be an "addict."
I'm afraid that's how a lot of the country feels about people like us who look forward to looking at a screen showing four different feeds of racing.
And those that do enjoy it, like my grandfather, sure ain't going to pay $25 or even $10 for the privilege.
That's why TVG is putting so much emphasis on "entertainment" in its primetime product -- cheesy as it is. It thinks to attract the general public who likes to gamble but still wants to be entertained that it has to put on a "show."
I've never seen TVG in primetime, but I've cringed at the things I've heard about it.

[Rick Ransom]

andicap,

Since TVG is available to a wider audience, is there any evidence that it is picking up new fans, or are we going to see them go out of business in a couple of years too?

[MikeH]

To say the least, I am very frustrated by this decision. Frustrated, because it didn't have to happen.

I signed up for TRN 16 months ago. The service was only about six months old. One thing that was very apparent to me was that TRN was targeted to the owner/trainer, and not to the serious racing fan. At the start of the race day, claims were announced before the changes, TRN would wait until the last second to show a race, and the announcers would frequently be talking even at the start of the race. They simply could not let the track announcer's voice come on until the race went off.

I sent a letter to their CEO, suggesting that they could eliminate most of the announcers and concentrate on live racing. This would have cut their overhead significantly. In typical Racing industry fashion, they never responded to my letter. In fact, they added a second announcer who got more in the way, and upped their overhead.

I'm guessing that most of their subscribers would stay with them if they eliminated ALL the announcers, and graphics (which requires an enormous staff and lots of $$$$$), and simply showed the live, full-card races, occasionally tape-delayed when two tracks go off simultaneously. along with tape-delayed post parades.

I'm sure that such a format, with the 10,000 - 20,000 subscribers that they reportedly had, should be close to break-even.

[andicap]

TVG is in a fight for its life with Magna, but TVG is holding a lot of cards.
First, it claims to have the patents so it will almost certainly use its deep pockets to protect them the way it has in the cable industry with its on-screen guides.
Second, if Magna gets New York OTB it's hard to believe that NYRA would make a deal with Magna for interactive TV although it might have to out of necessity. Still, NYRA and TVG are partners and TVG will use all its muscle to keep Magna away.
Finally, TVG could in the end just license its technology to someone (Magna, say).
So someone will be on the air with live racing.
Many people are wondering how Magna can absorb all the debt its servicing with all of its racetracks that it owns. I'm not familiar with its financials so I can't answer that question.
TVG's partnership with YouBet will help but there are still a number of tracks that are dealing with Magna and not the TVG-NTRA partnership. TVG and NTRA have no product in the winter but all the best tracks exclusively the rest of the year -- NY, CD/Keeneland, SA in the fall, Calder, Arlington, except for Monmouth.
(Who else does CD own? -- CD and TVG are close)

So it's very murky -- who knows TVG and Magna might have to merge eventually or TVG could license it's technology to Magna and make money off Magna's handle. If TVG gets NY OTB that would be a critical victory for TVG.
The next year should be very very interesting.

Why doesn't the tracks themselves set up the network and run a TRN setup to whoever wants it?For free.
Cost could be minimal because they already beam to satelilite locations.Just give out the recievers for cost,maybe have a surcharge to bettors who set up betting accounts.No big corporation,just beam the signal unscrambled.

[takeout]

That sounds good to me. Anything that would get me ALL of the races at THE track that I wanted, would seem like a miracle to me at this point. I share Mike H's frustrations.

[so.cal.fan]

That is a great idea, superselecta.
The problem is-it makes too much sense! They will never think of it.
I would be willing to pay an extra fee on my cable if they had it available, but free would be a great way to advertise racing.
We could sure use the help!
If these "suits" would ask the handicappers (who are much smarter than they are), answers to some of their problems, they would move forward...........<sigh> but I won't hold my breath.

[ceejay]

I didn't have TRN but can someone tell me did they run commercials?

[Larry Hamilton]

sort of, they called them "News Breaks" but the news was always from the same source--DRF...

[smf]

Mike H,

Don't take down the dish just yet, buddy. Right now I'm getting Philly, Delaware (yessss!), Ft Erie feeds on the 1-3 channels. This is the way it s/b imho. No announcers, just feeds. (not that I disliked the daytime announcers-- they were good)

Of course since this is the last day of the month it's all likely to end after today.

I'm going to the philly park site and email a couple of their contacts saying that this is worth paying for. Hopefully they can keep this thing afloat.

Also, on Sunday did you notice that Kristufek and Goodwin were a lot more upbeat/ jovial than usual? I did. They were always methodical and professional in their approach but a lot more joking was going on Sunday. Guess they got early & sweet severance pkg's, lol.

Ceejay,

They only ran a commercial ~ once per hour in 30-60 second bits. It was usually the Frankel/ Bailey DRF spots. ITS, BRIS also had 15 second spots once in awhile.

[Rick Ransom]

smf,

I'm hoping someone will buy out what they have left of the business. There are too many valuable assets involved to just pull the plug and not try to get something out of what's left.

[MikeH]

smf -

Who did you e-mail?

I had the same idea, but I haven't had any time the last 24 hours.

[smf]

Mike,

I've emailed Sal Sinatra. I'll choose another tomorrow, not sure whom.

Hopefully this works out.

http://www.philadelphiapark.com/contact/index.html

I think there is more to this then meets the eye. Magna bought into TRN a while back and it is part of their business plan to broadcast races to the home. Why would Magna let this fail? Why wouldn't they just buy Greenwood out? I think there was a falling out between these guys. Why the weasel worded annoucement "cease operatons" If they are out of business why not just say going out of business?

I am/was a TRN customer but it was a bad business plan from the get go. The whole concept of a separate dish for racing then the dish for regular TV was wrong. A customer needs 2 dishes or cable and and a dish. I didn't buy the service for a long time because of this and only the most die hard fan will put up with all of these piece parts to the watch races.

Now with the implementation of digital cable by most of the cable companies one would think that TRN would fit in very well. I just upgraded my cable to digital. I got 24 more channels and 45 music channels (why put music channels on TV is a mystery to me), added to the basic package. HBO now has 10 channels. It would seem to me that there is plenty of room for 4 channels of racing and you wouldn't need any additional equipment.

I agree they could have cut their cost as well. They had to have 7 or 8 announcers on the payroll and I agree that they don't need any, just show the races. Why was there a dog channel? Is there really that much interest in a separate dog channel? I think they should have devoted the service to T-breds and filled in with Harness on a space available basis.

Maybe some one will buy the assets for pennies on the $ and try again. It would seem to me that if you cut cost and put it on digital cable you could offer it for a much lower cost or even free (part of the basic digital package).

If there is an audience on digital cable for 4 do-it-yourself channels, 3 more discovery channels, an international history channel and a style channel, surely there is enough of an audience for a no frills, 4 channel TRN.

[andicap]

Mrdezo,
you might be right about Magna, but I don't think there's room for a 4-channel racing service even though it seems like there should be. Remember racing is a niche of a niche right now and even though it seems like there are an infinite number of channels available in reality bandwidth is still limited.
Racing will likely get 1 channel in a digital environment in states where it's legal for people to make bets at home, but not four.

FYI for anyone who had TRN on the Dish network. You need to call DISH and disconnect your service or you will continued to be billed the $29.99. 800-333-3474

They are telling me that there is a disconnect fee $11.99 and that they are not refunding the payment I made on 7/26/01 for the the month of Aug. (we pay for the service in advance and they said it is not refundable).

Looks like we will have a fight on our hands to get the refund.

andicap - I'll take your word for it but with about 200 channels and counting it seems like digital cable has a quality of content problem.... not a quanity problem.

[andicap]

Idea behind digital -- something for everyone. I don't watch most of what's on but someone will.
Lots and lots of movie channels == that's the most popular program on cable TV that people watch (well, next to wrestling and football)
Bandwidth also needed for services such as video-on-demand and subscription video-on-demand. Basically full VCR functions for whole array of new films anytime you want to see them.
Also need bandwidth for interactive television. It's where the money is.

[tanda]

Of course, with a cable modem you can get many of the feeds that TRN provided on your computer.

[takeout]

Originally posted by mrdezo
I think there is more to this then meets the eye. Magna bought into TRN a while back and it is part of their business plan to broadcast races to the home. Why would Magna let this fail? Why wouldn't they just buy Greenwood out? I think there was a falling out between these guys. Why the weasel worded annoucement "cease operatons" If they are out of business why not just say going out of business?

That's some interesting food for thought. Do you think that the announcement that Magna's bid was accepted for the NY OTBs is tied in with TRN's closing in some way? The OTB thing is far from being a done deal but it may end up being like Andicap was saying in that maybe at some point TVG and Magna may have to merge or some such. I can't quite visualize that but who knows? :confused:

Could be related takeout, we'll probably never know. Maybe greenwood needs to spruce up his books in order to get the cash he needs for his share of the OTB price.

FYI

David "Maven" Gutfreund, will represent The HorsePlayer Magazine this Sunday from 8-9 a.m. PDT. The show is broadcast live over the airwaves in the Las Vegas area on KRLV-AM 1340 and simulcast on RACEDAY LAS VEGAS HANDICAPPERS SHOW.

Mr. Maven will talk about the unfortunate demise of his former place of employment The Racing Network

check it out at
http://www.horseplayerdaily.com/

[smf]

Mr Dezo,

Joe Kristufek wrote an article in a Chicago paper about why he felt TRN closed up shop. If you want the link, I can dig it up.

I would bet that the sevice comes back soon as a variation of what it was. As much as I liked and respected Kristufek, Foster and Goodwin, I'd be happy with the track feeds. Hopefully that's what we'll see next time they give it a shot

[Larry Hamilton]

Frankly, I didn't care for any of the TRN announcers. They all needed a refresher course in public speaking as they had the disgusting tendency to speak and swallow at the same time. Further, the men need some classes in dressing other than ala mafia. Ties don't match the exact color as the shirt, unless you purchase your suits at KMart under a flashing blue light. And SHAVE damnit, three men with identical goatee's look like a room full of little boys who have been in the chocolate frosting bowl. The human connection, is unprofessional.

As far as their commentary, it's the same old meaningless drivel. In particular, kimber goodwin, invariable will tell you whether the horse changes lead in the last furlong---huh? How in the hell does this help me to gamble. Gamblers watch this show, help the gamblers. There are no viewers who are watching the pretty horse run in circles.

I hope they come back too, minus humans, I want to see horses in races, pre and post, with a mixing of tote boards. I can do without the humans. Towards the end, I found myself muting the volume--that should say it all...

[Tom]

They are telling me that there is a disconnect fee $11.99

[/B][/QUOTE]

Seems to me you could disconnect with a brick a lot cheaper than that!
Then blame it in on an act of God-high winds.
Tom

[takeout]

Originally posted by Tom
They are telling me that there is a disconnect fee $11.99

Wow, that IS cheesy!!!! :mad:

Yes I would like the link to the article if you can find it.

I agree the regular player doesn't need announcers just some one to switch the feeds from the odds board to the track feeds.

I'm going to fight them on the disconnect fee and the last month. We pay in advance for the serivce and I paid for August already. I'm paying a disconnect fee and I want a refund for August. I didn't want to disconnect. They/TRN stopped the program. I will take them to small claims court if necessary, its' the principle of thing.

[smf]

Mr Dezo,

I think you're addressing me. Here's Kristufek's article.

http://www.dailyherald.com/search/main_story.asp?intID=3710632

smf..thanks for posting the link

[Tom]

Originally posted by mrdezo
Yes I would like the link to the article if you can find it.

I agree the regular player doesn't need announcers just some one to switch the feeds from the odds board to the track feeds.

I'm going to fight them on the disconnect fee and the last month. We pay in advance for the serivce and I paid for August already. I'm paying a disconnect fee and I want a refund for August. I didn't want to disconnect. They/TRN stopped the program. I will take them to small claims court if necessary, its' the principle of thing.

Good luck. I hope you win, and i hope this catches on and a large, ugly class-action suit gets rolling and some of these class-less idiots end up in soup lines. There was absolutely no excuse for what they did other than pure greed. May they burn in Hell.
Tom

The article says they had 12000 customers. I don't know how many had dish. Just for fun lets say half (6000). So... $12 disconnect fee and $30 for a month of service that was not provided and Dish Gets $252,000 for doing for nothing. Sure beats robbing banks, you don't have to use a gun!!!

[Tom]

Sounds like this thread just merged with the one about
"Cheatin'"