BEYER QUESTIONS QUALITY ROADS'S AMSTERDAM TRACK RECORD TIME!

[andymays]

BEYER QUESTIONS QR'S AMSTERDAM TRACK RECORD TIME!

http://www.vtablog.org/2009/08/beyer-questions-qrs-amsterdam-track.html

Andrew Beyer doesn’t believe Quality Road set a new track record (6.5f in 1:13.45) in the Amsterdam Stakes on Monday at Saratoga. Neither does NYRA as they readjusted the time to 1:13.74 which is still a track record.

Beyer said methodology used by Randy Moss, who times races electronically from video, sets the final time of the Amsterdam at 1:14.70, with only a .05 margin of error.

[andymays]

Amsterdam Time Adjusted!

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/breederscup09/news/story?id=4379842

Excerpt:

The New York Racing Association made a slight adjustment to the final time of Monday's Grade 2 Amsterdam Stakes won by Quality Road, but the new time of 1:13.74 remains a track record.
In another development regarding the Amsterdam, Andrew Beyer and his associates have adjusted the Beyer Speed Figure to 110, raised from an original assigned figure of 103. The new figure is based on the belief that the final time is correct, something Beyer and his associates disputed on Monday.

[bisket]

either way he ran an excellant race. just hope the hooves don't get in his way. i'm gonna have a tough decision between him and rachel if they meet in the travers.

[joanied]

Quality Road has made one of the more impressive comebacks I can recall...what a shame he couldn't run in the TC races....breaks my heart... but looks like he's gonna make up for it...the Travers is gonna be a hell raiser, and although we hate to see the Spa meet come to an end...I can't wait:jump: for the Travers... unless Asmussen/Jess feel she needs to run, I am expecting Rachel skips the Travers...hope I am wrong...if and when she hooks up with QR, we may be wittness to one of our greatest races...

sorry to jump in here...couldn't help myself:)

[46zilzal]

either way he ran an excellant race. just hope the hooves don't get in his way. i'm gonna have a tough decision between him and rachel if they meet in the travers.
IF the filly tries that field and in fact waxes them she might gain my respect, but I seriously doubt any trainer would try that contest this early in the game iwth the yearl end contest meaning so much more for HOY votes

[Java Gold@TFT]

6.5F at Saratoga. FWIW: NYBred stakes runners went in 1:14.7 today but they only got the 3/4's in 1:08.29. Different day and horses but I wonder what the Beyer will be for today if he believes this time and the 1:14.7 he thinks Quality Road ran.

[depalma113]

IF the filly tries that field and in fact waxes them she might gain my respect, but I seriously doubt any trainer would try that contest this early in the game iwth the yearl end contest meaning so much more for HOY votes


She might gain your respect? :lol: :lol: :lol:

This might be the most egotistical post ever made in this forum.

[proximity]

Beyer said methodology used by Randy Moss, who times races electronically from video, sets the final time of the Amsterdam at 1:14.70, with only a .05 margin of error.

so then beyer turns his back on randy's work and decides to base his figure on a time almost a full second faster? :confused:

[46zilzal]

She might gain your respect?

This might be the most egotistical post ever made in this forum.
The ideas of Johnny Come Lately's telling us that this year's model is the greatest of all time is tiresome, if not patently false. The rich history of racing has many individuals considered great and they did it by taking on the best in the world at varying distances under great weights over MORE than a single season as a sophomore vs sophomores.

Measure up to the yardstick that earns a animal a place in the Hall of Fame and then the moniker of greatness will be earned.

I have heard this malarkey every year since the sixties. Along that path there have actually been a few Forego. Ack Ack, Ruffian, Miesque, Bid, Slew, Big Red, Nearco, Nijinsky, Sea Bird II, Red Rum, Yeats etc. who managed to at least match or supersede that definition and did so by impressing those in the know, not some short sighted giddy fan.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Is Andy trying to be relevant?

[proximity]

Is Andy trying to be relevant?

which andy are you talking about? mays or beyer?:confused:

[kenwoodallpromos]

which andy are you talking about? mays or beyer?:confused:
This thread brings up an interesting and very relevant point in my mind; How relevant would Beyer's system look if a horse breaking a track record earned only a 103 Beyer?

[depalma113]

The ideas of Johnny Come Lately's telling us that this year's model is the greatest of all time is tiresome, if not patently false. The rich history of racing has many individuals considered great and they did it by taking on the best in the world at varying distances under great weights over MORE than a single season as a sophomore vs sophomores.

Measure up to the yardstick that earns a animal a place in the Hall of Fame and then the moniker of greatness will be earned.

I have heard this malarkey every year since the sixties. Along that path there have actually been a few Forego. Ack Ack, Ruffian, Miesque, Bid, Slew, Big Red, Nearco, Nijinsky, Sea Bird II, Red Rum, Yeats etc. who managed to at least match or supersede that definition and did so by impressing those in the know, not some short sighted giddy fan.

Your just some tired oldtimer who pines for a game that no longer exists. You simply can't see greatness when you are staring it in the face. Too bad for you.

[ryesteve]

This thread brings up an interesting and very relevant point in my mind; How relevant would Beyer's system look if a horse breaking a track record earned only a 103 Beyer?I don't see your logic here. I'd say it makes it more relevant, since it illustrates how misleading relying on raw times can be.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I don't see your logic here. I'd say it makes it more relevant, since it illustrates how misleading relying on raw times can be.
I see your point, and both the raw times and Beyer number were changed; But if I not mistaken, Beyer changing his numbers seems to be done more often than raw track record times have been changed.
"Andrew Beyer and his associates have adjusted the Beyer Speed Figure to 110, raised from an original assigned figure of 103. The new figure is based on the belief that the final time is correct, something Beyer and his associates disputed on Monday." So Beyer's people gave a 103 based on what they claimed Monday was the correct time- almost 1 second faster; Now Beyer and Co. agree on a very slightly slower time from what the track first claimed, which is still a track record; And based on Beyer's acknowledgement that the time they claimed on Monday was almost 1 second slow, adjusted their Beyer number up 7 points.
In an honest attempt not to sound too sarcastic, I am really glad Beyer is willing to adjust his numbers when he is convinced something is off kilter. Anyone have stats on what % of the time is stakes races Beyer adjusts his numbers on the winner? Hopefully not too often!

[gm10]

I see your point, and both the raw times and Beyer number were changed; But if I not mistaken, Beyer changing his numbers seems to be done more often than raw track record times have been changed.
"Andrew Beyer and his associates have adjusted the Beyer Speed Figure to 110, raised from an original assigned figure of 103. The new figure is based on the belief that the final time is correct, something Beyer and his associates disputed on Monday." So Beyer's people gave a 103 based on what they claimed Monday was the correct time- almost 1 second faster; Now Beyer and Co. agree on a very slightly slower time from what the track first claimed, which is still a track record; And based on Beyer's acknowledgement that the time they claimed on Monday was almost 1 second slow, adjusted their Beyer number up 7 points.
In an honest attempt not to sound too sarcastic, I am really glad Beyer is willing to adjust his numbers when he is convinced something is off kilter. Anyone have stats on what % of the time is stakes races Beyer adjusts his numbers on the winner? Hopefully not too often!

Actually, I ended up with a higher figure for QR as well. The time adjustment led to a slower track variant which led to a small upgrade of the final number.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't see your logic here. I'd say it makes it more relevant, since it illustrates how misleading relying on raw times can be.He didn't just break the track record, if we were to trust the original times...he OBLITERATED it....a 103 would just seem totally off base for such a performance...

I hear what you're saying though...loud and clear...

[Tom Barrister]

Your just some tired oldtimer who pines for a game that no longer exists. You simply can't see greatness when you are staring it in the face. Too bad for you.

The other poster is entitled to his opinion, without you calling him names and passing judgement on him. You're acting like a troll.

She might gain your respect? :lol: :lol: :lol:

This might be the most egotistical post ever made in this forum.

Another caustic post. Again, the other poster is entitled to an opinion, without you making a nasty comment.

I'll make a more egotistical post (by your standards).

I believe Quality Road is the overblown horse of the year (so far), another "latest wonder of the world" who will fizzle out like almost all of the others.

As I stated in another thread, I doubt Quality Road will finish in the money in the Travers. I haven't see anything so far that would change my opinion. I intend to back that opinion with hard cash by excluding him from all of the exotics. If the horse wins easily, he will cost me a decent piece of money, but that happens sometimes.

[classhandicapper]

I believe Quality Road is the overblown horse of the year (so far), another "latest wonder of the world" who will fizzle out like almost all of the others.

As I stated in another thread, I doubt Quality Road will finish in the money in the Travers. I haven't see anything so far that would change my opinion. I intend to back that opinion with hard cash by excluding him from all of the exotics. If the horse wins easily, he will cost me a decent piece of money, but that happens sometimes.

That's a pretty strong view.

I could certainly see him running a poor race at 10F for the first time off a single sprint prep, but I can't see how anyone could say he's not a very talented horse off what we've seen to date.

[david botsford]

IF the filly tries that field and in fact waxes them she might gain my respect, but I seriously doubt any trainer would try that contest this early in the game iwth the yearl end contest meaning so much more for HOY votesReally it must take a hell of alot to gain YOUR respect.

[PaceAdvantage]

Some folks love to be contrarian, no matter the cost.

[Moyers Pond]

Well the horse set the track record no matter what time you use.

Either way it does not matter because we will find out Quality Road is made of in the Travers. If he wins that race convincingly he will set the stage for a showdown with Rachel Alexandra at Belmont. It will be interesting to see if Jess Jackson can figure out a way of that race.

[KingChas]

One things for sure if the times are right.
It's the fastest 6F lifetime mark for Custom for Carlos & Everyday Heroes..etc.
:D