Do You Keep Records ?

[pktruckdriver]

It seems that those who do keep records win more often, kinda like anything else, they put more into it and get more out of it... makes sense doesn't it.


Has record keeping drastically changed your game, would you share it here. please?

What records do you keep, wagering records, types and amounts, race type and horse type too. Anything I leave out that should be kept too???

To me keeping records has been an extreme time consuming thing that I been fighting every step of the way to not do, laziness, probally , but not keeping is winning out , and I am suffering for it, I even have someone who got it to where all I needed to do was cut and paste into and Excell program and I find out my excell program isn't a full feature program, it's a free trial one, and thus I can't cut a paste, so no record keeping still.

Richard sent me some programs about 6 months ago, but I lost them during a computer meltdown, actually got strucl by lighting and fried both it and me, had blisters for weeks, 2 small ones, but back to Record keeping.

What do you guys keeps records of and is there a way that doesn't take hours to do it, forgive me if I sound lazy here, it may be that I am, but time wise I am limited, but still wish to do what will help make me a better player, and I feel that is to keep records, period.

[Tom]

What records do you keep, wagering records, types and amounts, race type and horse type too. Anything I leave out that should be kept too???

What Ted and Richie gave you.....that's the key.

[fmolf]

What Ted and Richie gave you.....that's the key.
i do keep records but i do not wager enough to really know if they help me or not.I only gamble maybe once a week or once every two weeks when i get to the track.

[pktruckdriver]

What Ted and Richie gave you.....that's the key.


No doubt , as soon as I get Open Office set up and running it's record keeping time for me, those guys are the best, but I still like to ask others what they do, but for RDSS, yes Ted and Richie will have me going shortly, those guys are great, I'm happy over there.


Patrick

[JustRalph]

my adw keeps them for me..............

[Track Collector]

It seems that those who do keep records win more often, kinda like anything else, they put more into it and get more out of it... makes sense doesn't it.


Has record keeping drastically changed your game, would you share it here. please?

What records do you keep, wagering records, types and amounts, race type and horse type too. Anything I leave out that should be kept too???

To me keeping records has been an extreme time consuming thing that I been fighting every step of the way to not do, laziness, probally , but not keeping is winning out , and I am suffering for it, I even have someone who got it to where all I needed to do was cut and paste into and Excell program and I find out my excell program isn't a full feature program, it's a free trial one, and thus I can't cut a paste, so no record keeping still.

Richard sent me some programs about 6 months ago, but I lost them during a computer meltdown, actually got strucl by lighting and fried both it and me, had blisters for weeks, 2 small ones, but back to Record keeping.

What do you guys keeps records of and is there a way that doesn't take hours to do it, forgive me if I sound lazy here, it may be that I am, but time wise I am limited, but still wish to do what will help make me a better player, and I feel that is to keep records, period.

Yes, I keep records. Actually, I do not physically enter info into a daily log, but rather have the information available to me either by reports from the ADWs I do business with, or by running a query on my database. I used to enter info manually into an Access database, but I found it was time consuming and it told me very little that I could not already obtain via other means. (BTW, Excel is another excellent program for keeping and reviewing records.)

IMO, a record should include at least the following basic information:
(a) Date
(b) Track
(c) Wager type
(d) Wager amount
(e) Wager net result (profit or loss)
(f) Wagering venue (ADW name or Track name or OTB name, etc.)
(g) thru (xxx) Relevant Handicapping info such as race distance, class, surface, track condition, and any other factors given consideration in your handicapping methodology.

Record keeping can be a pain in the butt, but I agree with someone (Dick Mitchell?) who stated that "Winners keep records. Losers refuse to do what winners do, which is why they remain losers."

When you take the time to keep records and ACTUALLY STUDY THEM, it points clearly to those aspects which you are good at, and to those which you need lots of improvement on. The beauty of records is that they identify reality, rather than PERCEIVED reality. Our perceptions will often lie to us, especially when it comes to financial results. Records show results in black and white, and often will be different from what we think.

Record keeping (like money management) is not the magic cure to turn unsuccessful handicappers into successful ones, however, when NOT used, or used improperly, you are leaving money on the table. That is, those who do not keep and review records today would see an improvement to their current ROI once record keeping is added to the handicapping process.

Patrick, I know from reading other threads that you have a strong desire to become a successful handicapper, and perhaps to the level of making your livelyhood. Here are just a few of the simple, but vitally important questions you need to answer about your handicapping:
(a) What tracks are you most successful and least successful at?
(b) What wager types (Win/Exacta/Etc.) are most profitable and least profitable for you?
(c) What race surfaces (Dirt/Turf/Synthetic) are you most profitable and least profitable at?
(d) What handicapping factors (from your currently used methodolody) are you most and least successful at?

You should be able to answer the above questions numerically, for example, for (a) my best overall ROI is 1.05 at Finger Lakes where my worst overall ROI is 0.45 at Penn National.

You need records to answer all the above questions definatively.

Is it possible to have long-term success without keeping records? Perhaps an extremely rare individual can, but why would they do so when record keeping would most likely improve their ROI even more?

One final point which is again based on what I believe to be your handicapping aspirations. If you ever want to use "Professional Gambler" status on your tax returns, and there IS significant financial benefit IF you meet the high-hurdle criteria, you better have a detailed wagering log. Failure to do so will give the IRS an easy path to re-classify you as a "recreational" handicapper, which will cost you hundreds, and even thousands of dollars under the current (unfair in my opinion) tax laws.

Best Wishes,
Track Collector

[Red Knave]

To me keeping records has been an extreme time consuming thing that I been fighting every step of the way to not do, laziness, probally , but not keeping is winning out , and I am suffering for itAs if losing a bunch of money wasn't bad enough, when you keep records you are forced to relive those losses day after day. I think that's the main reason many do not keep records, not laziness. If you don't keep records then there is no real proof. You can still kid yourself that you're probably "breaking even".
I believe the main things required to be a winning horse race bettor are betting properly, record keeping and handicapping, in that order.

[pktruckdriver]

Yes, I keep records. Actually, I do not physically enter info into a daily log, but rather have the information available to me either by reports from the ADWs I do business with, or by running a query on my database. I used to enter info manually into an Access database, but I found it was time consuming and it told me very little that I could not already obtain via other means. (BTW, Excel is another excellent program for keeping and reviewing records.)

IMO, a record should include at least the following basic information:
(a) Date
(b) Track
(c) Wager type
(d) Wager amount
(e) Wager net result (profit or loss)
(f) Wagering venue (ADW name or Track name or OTB name, etc.)
(g) thru (xxx) Relevant Handicapping info such as race distance, class, surface, track condition, and any other factors given consideration in your handicapping methodology.

Record keeping can be a pain in the butt, but I agree with someone (Dick Mitchell?) who stated that "Winners keep records. Losers refuse to do what winners do, which is why they remain losers."

When you take the time to keep records and ACTUALLY STUDY THEM, it points clearly to those aspects which you are good at, and to those which you need lots of improvement on. The beauty of records is that they identify reality, rather than PERCEIVED reality. Our perceptions will often lie to us, especially when it comes to financial results. Records show results in black and white, and often will be different from what we think.

Record keeping (like money management) is not the magic cure to turn unsuccessful handicappers into successful ones, however, when NOT used, or used improperly, you are leaving money on the table. That is, those who do not keep and review records today would see an improvement to their current ROI once record keeping is added to the handicapping process.

Patrick, I know from reading other threads that you have a strong desire to become a successful handicapper, and perhaps to the level of making your livelyhood. Here are just a few of the simple, but vitally important questions you need to answer about your handicapping:
(a) What tracks are you most successful and least successful at?
(b) What wager types (Win/Exacta/Etc.) are most profitable and least profitable for you?
(c) What race surfaces (Dirt/Turf/Synthetic) are you most profitable and least profitable at?
(d) What handicapping factors (from your currently used methodolody) are you most and least successful at?

You should be able to answer the above questions numerically, for example, for (a) my best overall ROI is 1.05 at Finger Lakes where my worst overall ROI is 0.45 at Penn National.

You need records to answer all the above questions definatively.

Is it possible to have long-term success without keeping records? Perhaps an extremely rare individual can, but why would they do so when record keeping would most likely improve their ROI even more?

One final point which is again based on what I believe to be your handicapping aspirations. If you ever want to use "Professional Gambler" status on your tax returns, and there IS significant financial benefit IF you meet the high-hurdle criteria, you better have a detailed wagering log. Failure to do so will give the IRS an easy path to re-classify you as a "recreational" handicapper, which will cost you hundreds, and even thousands of dollars under the current (unfair in my opinion) tax laws.

Best Wishes,
Track Collector


Track Collector


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Excellent Post, thank you so much.

As I was once told, the window to winning is thru record keeping, so much work is needed as I can not answer all of your question there, not even half of them, kinda sad, but true, so let me get busy fixing that and begin this journey.

Hopefully by years end I can answer each question you have asked me there, and I will be on the path to better handicapping, as it seems now I am not even on the path yet, and who'da thunk it, all this I been doing for the last year or so too, but at least I am man enough to realize it and can now work on it.


This is not an easy thing to do, and will take time and planty of it, years maybe, but 1 step at a time, Yes Red, looking back at all those losess , it hurts, but if you could see that if you did not bet on any route and turf races you'd be a winner, then you actually listen to the records you have , look out world...to be continued

Patrick

[riskman]

As if losing a bunch of money wasn't bad enough, when you keep records you are forced to relive those losses day after day. I think that's the main reason many do not keep records, not laziness. If you don't keep records then there is no real proof. You can still kid yourself that you're probably "breaking even".
I believe the main things required to be a winning horse race bettor are betting properly, record keeping and handicapping, in that order.

A realistic and honest appraisal that is refreshing to say the least.

[ddog]

go slow,keep the tickets, write down a short note as to why you are going to make the play.

With that and the tickets(the race/date/track) are already there, that should be enough.

You don't need a spreadsheet to tell you what you are good at.

Pick one type of race and play only that, get good at it and then move on or not.

You may find you only need to be a one-trick pony.

In fact , pick a couple of trainers that run big strings study them, you will find money.

[Space Monkey]

I bet almost exclusively on twin spires and they have a very good detailed history feature. I've started a few times to go deeper into it, like by surface and class type, but I never keep it up. Too much detail, too little time. My bad. I really should.

[dutchboy]

Excel 2007 worksheet. Columns are:

Date
Track
Race #
Dist
Surface
Class
Morning line odds
Final odds
Neural Net projected odds
Win price
Profit/loss

It can then be sorted and/or filtered any way I want. Really have been surprised what shows up. The sheet now has about 8000 races.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Keep records on everything.

Bets-have been well elaborated on

Track Profiles-for your circuit(s).And not just the typical at call points.Make a notation of how the race set up ie,if 3 horses battled for a half mil write "3H duel 50" or if there was a lone speed horse write "LS" etc etc.Having fraction,points of call,and a race notation gives you quite a visual of a race.

Trainer Patterns-for your circuit(s).Whatever they win or place with,usually the patterns are the same.

Class Profiles-for each open and restricted condition on your circuit.Notice the ages,what type of horse(lightly raced,multiple winner etc),class manuevers(to within 3 starts of a class drop or track switch),distance manuevers(up to 2 starts of),jockey change,equipment change.

Deficient Form Class Profiles-I make these for horses in each race category that win and make no sense to me.Patterns emerge from these head scratchers.

Having all this tailored to the race circuit you follow will get you to the front of the pack quickly.But it will take some time to assimilate all the information into an approach.

[jonnielu]

What do you guys keeps records of and is there a way that doesn't take hours to do it, forgive me if I sound lazy here, it may be that I am, but time wise I am limited, but still wish to do what will help make me a better player, and I feel that is to keep records, period.

Be unique. Use your brain. Your brain will store all of the records you need, and you don't have to spend time writing something down.

If you analyze the race, make determinations about the race, and then watch the race. All of that will be fed into your sub-concious. When the horse that you didn't think about comes across the finish line first, you ask yourself how you missed that, and then forget it. Your sub-concious, having all of the data duly recorded, will go to work on the problem. As long as you will co-operate by not thinking about it.

At some point, while you are doing something else, your sub-concious will spit out it's reckoning. Write this down, it's called an idea, and you want to be able to test it. Apply it on the next go round, and let it run through the system again until there are no questions about the results.

There will be horses that you still miss, but you will now realize conciously how or why you missed them. Frequently, you will also realize that there was something that brought your attention to that horse, but you dismissed it. This is your programmed sub-concious busting ass to direct you, while your concious recalls some "rule" of handicapping. Now you tune your concious to feed your sub-concious with good data, and tune your concious to recognize the output of your sub-concious.

Your brain will solve every problem you present to it, as long as you do not present it with concious beliefs, and as long as you allow your sub-concious to work on the problem by not trying to solve it conciously. Or, have someone else program it for you.

jdl

[Grits]

Jl, bud, I like your carrying on. I can handle it. All 'cappers got their styles and their quirks, you included. But, sometimes, when you post, I feel like I'm reading

--Shirley McClaine.

With all this funneling of sub conscious, the two of you'd be great together on a book tour. Probably, the stage, as well. I know you could work with her. She's damn good, ya know!

Wonder if this highly acclaimed actress and soothsayer has ever been to Santa Anita, DelMar, or Hollywood? I'm sure her brother has.

[Grits]

Patrick, I forgot. Yes, I keep records, as someone else indicated, "TwinSpires does it for me". And handily, I'd add.

[fmolf]

Jl, bud, I like your carrying on. I can handle it. All 'cappers got their styles and their quirks, you included. But, sometimes, when you post, I feel like I'm reading

--Shirley McClaine.

With all this funneling of sub conscious, the two of you'd be great together on a book tour. Probably, the stage, as well. I know you could work with her. She's damn good, ya know!

Wonder if this highly acclaimed actress and soothsayer has ever been to Santa Anita, DelMar, or Hollywood? I'm sure her brother has.
jonnie i think you spent too much time in haight-asbury in the 60's :cool: ... :cool:

[speculus]

.......
Has record keeping drastically changed your game, would you share it here. please? ......

Not all record keepers may be long-term winners, but all long-term winners are surely meticulous record keepers.

When I first started keeping records nearly 15 years ago, it was nothing short of a revelation. Record keeping can be great help if you write your reasons for the bet BEFORE the race and revisit that column AFTER the race.

I have also come across people who are losers, but just because they don't keep records, they genuinely believe they are winners at this game. Human mind is a dangerous machine that can fool its owner. Record keeping can save you from getting tricked by your own mind and memory.

[jonnielu]

Track Collector


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Excellent Post, thank you so much.

As I was once told, the window to winning is thru record keeping, so much work is needed as I can not answer all of your question there, not even half of them, kinda sad, but true, so let me get busy fixing that and begin this journey.

Hopefully by years end I can answer each question you have asked me there, and I will be on the path to better handicapping, as it seems now I am not even on the path yet, and who'da thunk it, all this I been doing for the last year or so too, but at least I am man enough to realize it and can now work on it.


This is not an easy thing to do, and will take time and planty of it, years maybe, but 1 step at a time, Yes Red, looking back at all those losess , it hurts, but if you could see that if you did not bet on any route and turf races you'd be a winner, then you actually listen to the records you have , look out world...to be continued

Patrick

I know I'm on the edge of my seat.

jdl

[proximity]

my worst overall ROI is 0.45 at Penn National.


you forgot to enter the results from the last night i saw you up there? :)

[proximity]

What records do you keep, .....

i keep detailed records on ability-x and hsh.....;)

[Track Collector]

you forgot to enter the results from the last night i saw you up there? :)

The ROI numbers used were fictional, and were not from my personal betting records.

That night was truely exceptional, as it would be certainly be among the top three most-profitable days I have experienced this year. Unfortunately, many other down days have me currently struggling just to get back to break even for the year. :(

Since this is a thread on recordkeeping, it might be interesting to note that one of the angles I have experienced success with over the past few years has turned very sour in year 2009, and I bailed on it after about 3 months of play and substantial losses. I still track this angle even today, and in hindsight, the data shows that I made a very good decision to stop playing it. (If only I would have stopped sooner.) :blush:

Even with excellent recordkeeping, it can still be a difficult challenge to determine when to bail on a given play. Is the current down cycle reflective of an angle that will prove to be unprofitable in the long-run, or is it one of the down cycles that even long-term successful plays experience from time to time? Those who consistently answer this key question correctly will be rewarded with financial success.

[nalley0710]

Amen. I was a manager in an accounting department before I left it for the track. Being an accountant and trader in my former life I have always kept records. It helps me see what reasons for wagering are correct and incorrect and focus on betting my strengths. In the beginning I noticed right away that I made 90% of my money backing horses that were 5/1 or higher and that certain tracks were profitable and others were not. I avoid anything that is not profitable for me and pass 85% of the races on a card. I think if anyone has technical knowledge of the game and does this that they will move into the black and not have losing years. I lost 16 in a row in june and realized that they were at the same track. I suspended betting on the track and studied it closer. While focusing on my better tracks I noticed an obscure pattern at one of them by analyzing my records, next time I saw this pattern I bet the horse that was going off at something like 20-1. The horse won after a long photo decision and when the payoff was shown the late action was so heavy on the odds on favorite that my horse paid 55-1 and the trifecta was over $13,000. (unfortunately I didnt have the trifecta) I never bet exotics much but that $13000 got me interested. I had a horse that won later that month at 16-1. Normally I would collect my money and ignore the exotics. But because of the other play I looked at the exotics. The superfecta paid $27,000. You can bet that I am doing a study on betting exotics on my longshot plays now. I dont bet horses like this often and I certainly am not a millionaire from betting but without accurate records I wouldnt even know that I have been possibly leaving money on the table. Thats a real life example of how records can make you profitable. P.S. I am not Pittsburgh Phil. I dont hit 55-1 shots often.

[jonnielu]

i keep detailed records on ability-x and hsh.....;)

Do you have both?

jdl

[jefftune]

I keep a speadsheet with all my winning bets along with a tally on how I do each day.

Columns are:
1. Date
2. Thoroughbred or harness
3. Bet type
4. Amount of winning bet
5. Amount of total bet
6. Odds
7. Payout
8. Trainer/jockey (or harness driver)
9. Comment (usually dirt or turf, race class, distance, pace or trot, etc.)

I basically use this to see how I'm doing for the year. Fun to sort and see what bet types and tracks win the most $$.

-Jeff Tune
www.angelfire.com/pa/tune (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/tune)