Just to be fair....

[PaceAdvantage]

Here is an editorial Amazin and ljb might enjoy from the Boston Globe....it was written by Lawrence J. Korb, director of national security studies at the Council on Foreign Relations, and who was assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration.

Here it is:

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/133/editorials/Thank_Clinton_for_a_speedy_victory_in_Iraq+.shtml

[Larry Hamilton]

as in any discussion, once a "quoted person" is shown to be telling a lie, then nothing they say has credibility. Here is a quote from the article that PA posted (speaking of contributions of the Clinton administration:

"and improving retirement and health benefits for military retirees. "

as one of these retirees I can tell you absolutely this is untrue. when I joined the army, medical care -- ALL medical care-- was free to both active and retired. Naturally, at the age of 17 I didnt know how valuable this benie was. But the damn fact is I EARNED IT and politicians have not only taken it away, they smile and tell us how good this "new" system is. With Bush 1, we got what was called CHAMPUS--net results was we had to pay some but army hospital care was free. Then we got something during Clinton called TRICARE, it is far from free, not always available, hospitals became clinics and did very little serious work (like heart attacks) and an administrative nightmare (for me).

As an anecdotal aside I can tell you something I saw recently at the army clinic. An old run down retiree trying to get medical care was at the "sign in" desk, was refused care because he could not afford 50 bucks a month for the tricare paymen...Clinton, my ass...

[Larry Hamilton]

And, to give Clinton credit for new weapons is to demonstrate a profound misunderstanding of Army logistics. As I did this kind of work in/with the army from time to time, Ill try to keep it simple.

As an average, it can be said that new/improved weapons systems take 15 years to make it thru the pipes. So if you want to determine who is responsible for those systems, you must first answer the question: Do I want to credit the president that initiated the action or completed it? On one hand the answer is Reagan, on the other it is Clinton.

Having been in both the military and a contractor for the military during both their terms, I can tell you what clinton gets credit for is reducing the size and quality of the military so that he could boast of reducing government. It was during his tour that we changed our military required strategy from being able to defend our country on both sides to hold one one side and fight on the other...

All I am trying to say with both these posts is, if you feel the need to credit clinton for something, it aint the military and the defense of the nation.

[Lefty]

Larry, thank you. The truth has gotten to the fore.

[Tom]

....according to the timing, credit Reagan with the Humvee, and Clinton with the hummer! :rolleyes:

[Lefty]

Tom, now That's funny. Contained the required element of truth for humor.

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't shoot the messenger guys!! I just bring you this stuff as I find it....LOL

[Tom]

If you don't read/listen to differing opinions, and consider them, how can you be sure you are right in your own beliefs?
Hardest thing to to do is refute something you don't agree with logically, scientifically, objectively.
When you can't argue someones point other than it must be wrong becasue he is always wrong, or that idiot can't be right, then you have to reappraise your own stance. I have shifted opinions on some things doing this. If I was always right, I sure wouldn't be doing all my talking in the back room of a horse board. When you can objectively assure yourself that you are right, then you know.

[kenwoodall]

I am a 10% disabled vet and have to pay $7.00 month per medicine. BS!