I want my Santa Anita (and Del Mar) back!

[Jeff Mende]

Not unlike Jess Jackson, who refuses to take Rachel Alexandra to Santa Anita for the PolymerCup, I want my Santa Anita back!

Synthetics are "fake." They are "plastic."

Are they not?

They remove every traditional handicapping nuance known to man.

Do they not?

They have turned the barns upside-down. They have turned every
jockey into Pat Day. They have turned every horseplayer who is not a gambling addict - eastward!

Synthetics have been the demise of handicapping - they have removed the strategical challenge of projecting the way a race will unfold. They have removed perhaps the most essential handicapping ingredient of all:

The effects of pace!

Where is the media's investigative report on former California Horse Racing Board Chairman Richard B. Shapiro (see Bernie Madoff, abrupt resignation, etc.), who mandated the synthetic insanity?

There is a history on the guy, but nobody (in the media) wants to touch it because it will undermine the pro-synthetic argument (to which the media was a party) and place the (downsized) racing media's press passes, free lunches and comp hotel rooms in jeopardy.

Do some people in the media (see Bloodhorse) really believe that taking Curlin to the Breeders' Cup to race over a surface that potentially put his legacy at risk is a spoiled act?

Someone, please, inform the ignorant media and racetrack spin doctors to stop hiding behind the horse safety issue. It's a weak and unsubstantiated
argument.

Where is the safety for the countless former racehorses who are brutally killed every day because they can no longer earn a penny for their greedy, insensitive owners?

Does anyone know the definition of hypocrisy?

Why do the important issues always seem to get lost in a typically irrelevant horseplayer debate? Could it be there aren't enough Jess Jacksons out
there to take a stand?

Could it be that the voices of the horseplayer (trainers and jockeys, too) - who overwhelmingly despise synthetics - have been silenced by racing's corporate overlords and their minions, the media?

I don't know about you, but, dammit, I want my Del Mar and Santa Anita back!

[DrugS]

I feel your pain.

[Imriledup]

I used to bet So Cal and to my recollection, no one asked me if i wanted a surface change.

I could be wrong, i mean, they MIGHT have asked me, ya know, as a good customer, they might have reached out to some horseplayers, but i can't recall if they did.

This stuff is going to go down like the steroid era in baseball, We're going to have the 'synthetic era' in horse racing.

[andymays]

Quote from Jeff Mende

I don't know about you, but, dammit, I want my Del Mar and Santa Anita back!



Amen times 10! :ThmbUp:

[Black Ruby]

You forgot Keeneland! I really dislike the ground up tires, carpet fibers, raisin bran, sand, rice krispies, wax, and Milorganite track there. The rest of the improvements (bigger apron, new tote board) are fine, just go back to dirt. If you insist, replace the turf with Poly and use it for turf racing and instead of a sealed or sloppy main track.

[fmolf]

You forgot Keeneland! I really dislike the ground up tires, carpet fibers, raisin bran, sand, rice krispies, wax, and Milorganite track there. The rest of the improvements (bigger apron, new tote board) are fine, just go back to dirt. If you insist, replace the turf with Poly and use it for turf racing and instead of a sealed or sloppy main track.
I am angry because i have no top tier track to follow in the afternoons after nyra is finished racing.I have not bet a nickel on a race at a track where fake dirt is installed.I will bet my money where real racing takes place.I will not bet on even turf races at a venue with polycrap,the look the same to me anyway turf or poly!racetrack owners and executives may not hear our voices but if we speak with our wagering dollars or lack there of ...they may just hear and understand that!

[illinoisbred]

How about Arlington?We've had several 1/2's miles in sprint races that have exceeded 49 secs.What a joke! The gate opens,the brakes are applied.Horses thrash about,flailing their heads They want to run,not gallop! I have yet to see a strangleheld horse run well in the stretch These races on polytrack are nothing more than opportunities lost for most owners and bettors.And keeneland,putting polytrack in there is sacreligous to racing.

[fmolf]

How about Arlington?We've had several 1/2's miles in sprint races that have exceeded 49 secs.What a joke! The gate opens,the brakes are applied.Horses thrash about,flailing their heads They want to run,not gallop! I have yet to see a strangleheld horse run well in the stretch These races on polytrack are nothing more than opportunities lost for most owners and bettors.And keeneland,putting polytrack in there is sacreligous to racing.
I feel your pain...If nyra put in poly I would be done...i'd take up poker or card counting in blackjack....or good old fashioned sports betting.

[Whodoyalike?]

We were all sold on the notion that synthetic surfaces would prevent fewer breakdowns. I completely agree with you, it's pointless to handicap a horse that ran over synthetic surfaces. Take the last few winners of the Santa Anitia Derby, and see how they fared in Kentucky. The paradox for the tracks that installed the poly surfaces is that it's so costly (I've heard as much as $20 million per one mile oval). Can you tell me, has the handle gone down at the tracks that carry the poly surface? If so, that's the only way a track will return to the traditional dirt/sand. Hit the track in the pocket book.

In this sport, we can't have some tracks with the poly surface, and others with the tradional surface. One patron argued the point to me that "it was like in the old days of auto racing, at one point auto races were ran on dirt. When pavement arrived, people were skeptical. Eventually, every track went to pavement." Horse safety is crutial to the survival of this sport... So is the the betting interests of the patrons.

[kenwoodallpromos]

If enough bettors want to go back to dirt in Ca then eventually it will probably go back, but I have a question- Will the bettors go baxk to complaining about small fields and small payoffs?

[Bruddah]

If enough bettors want to go back to dirt in Ca then eventually it will probably go back, but I have a question- Will the bettors go baxk to complaining about small fields and small payoffs?

Does your statement imply West Coast racing now has large fields and large payoffs? :confused:

[andymays]

If enough bettors want to go back to dirt in Ca then eventually it will probably go back, but I have a question- Will the bettors go baxk to complaining about small fields and small payoffs?


They are having a real hard time filling races at Del Mar even though they went to one less day of racing. It seems that the ultra safe synthetic surfaces haven't kept too many Horses sound like they claimed in the infomercial. They can't deny it any longer!

[illinoisbred]

Same story at arlington.

[andymays]

Same story at arlington.


Do any of the Journalists there write about the stuff you're saying. Until recently not many in California had the guts to tell the truth about these surfaces.

[illinoisbred]

Not much and when it is discussed it's in terms of look at the great things we're doing in the name of safety.

[andymays]

Not much and when it is discussed it's in terms of look at the great things we're doing in the name of safety.


You have to develop relationships with some of the Journalists there. Always be respectfull and ask questions when you email them. You have to be persistent but once you build a relationship with them you can push them towards some stories by asking them to ask some tough questions of the Racing Officials.

What these guys find out after they start asking tough questions is that they sell more newspapers and get more hits on their websites because the public wants the truth and respects the Reporter that tells it.

[illinoisbred]

To follow-up,racing doesn't get much media coverage here in the chicago area.With newspapers having hard times,the racing journalists were the first to go.

[horses4courses]

When synthetic tracks were introduced, so many reputable trainers, and racing insiders, were quoted as saying it would be a boon for the game and,
most importantly, a major contributor to the well-being of horses.

It is very doubtful, however, that the evidence over the past few years, can back this up. Where are the statistics, though?
A thorough, definitive study needs to be conducted to show the facts.
And it needs to be completed soon.

Whether you can handicap the races run of the fake stuff, or not, the safety of racehorses is the bottom line.

If dirt and synthetic surfaces have a similar safety record, as I suspect, then
California tracks wasted a bunch of money, and the CHRB over-reacted in haste.

[andymays]

To follow-up,racing doesn't get much media coverage here in the chicago area.With newspapers having hard times,the racing journalists were the first to go.

Do most Horseplayers there complain about the surface at Arlington?

Out here in la la land (California)every Horseplayer I know hates it. Most of the ones like myself that could bang out a nice score every few months are hating life and losing interest in Horse Racing altogether.

[illinoisbred]

Not too much complaining.Midwesterners seem to grin and bear it.

[andymays]

When synthetic tracks were introduced, so many reputable trainers, and racing insiders, were quoted as saying it would be a boon for the game and,
most importantly, a major contributor to the well-being of horses.

It is very doubtful, however, that the evidence over the past few years, can back this up. Where are the statistics, though?
A thorough, definitive study needs to be conducted to show the facts.
And it needs to be completed soon.

Whether you can handicap the races run of the fake stuff, or not, the safety of racehorses is the bottom line.

If dirt and synthetic surfaces have a similar safety record, as I suspect, then
California tracks wasted a bunch of money, and the CHRB over-reacted in haste.


You should probably read the "slowly but surely the truth about synthetics" thread from the beginning. Up until recently they lied about injuries and breakdowns. Now everyone is counting so they can't lie anymore!

And by the way welcome to the Board!

[horses4courses]

You should probably read the "slowly but surely the truth about synthetics" thread from the beginning. Up until recently they lied about injuries and breakdowns. Now everyone is counting so they can't lie anymore!

And by the way welcome to the Board!

Thanks for the welcome!

I want to see stats that show, for example, Keeneland, Arlington, and the California tracks during their traditional seasonal meets - before and after synthetic surfaces. Not "he said, she said", or "so and so is lying" about breakdowns.

There should be 2 categories for breakdowns - those during racing, and those
during workouts. Total numbers of horses stabled at that time as a ratio of breakdowns, etc.

Until stats like those are produced by a reputable, and neutral, source , it's all conjecture.

We can all suspect that synthetic was a con-job, but statistics need to prove it.

[illinoisbred]

This is the best kept secret in illinois.Hell,they even edit all breakdowns out of the race replays.We're very sensitive people don't you know.

[andymays]

Thanks for the welcome!

I want to see stats that show, for example, Keeneland, Arlington, and the California tracks during their traditional seasonal meets - before and after synthetic surfaces. Not "he said, she said", or "so and so is lying" about breakdowns.

There should be 2 categories for breakdowns - those during racing, and those
during workouts. Total numbers of horses stabled at that time as a ratio of breakdowns, etc.

Until stats like those are produced by a reputable, and neutral, source , it's all conjecture.

We can all suspect that synthetic was a con-job, but statistics need to prove it.


The people that advocated these surfaces are the one who were supposed to keep the statistics so there is a huge conflict there. If you take a look at the thread I recommended from the beginning you will see some articles with quotes and emails from experts.

[KingChas]

I don't know about you, but, dammit, I want my Del Mar and Santa Anita back!

I would imagine Bing is rolling right now about his "Ole Del Mar". ;)

[horses4courses]

The people that advocated these surfaces are the one who were supposed to keep the statistics so there is a huge conflict there. If you take a look at the thread I recommended from the beginning you will see some articles with quotes and emails from experts.

I have looked at the thread you recommended.
I see quotes from Calvin Borel, Gary Stute, and an expired SGV news article.

[Bison]

Do most Horseplayers there complain about the surface at Arlington?

Out here in la la land (California)every Horseplayer I know hates it. Most of the ones like myself that could bang out a nice score every few months are hating life and losing interest in Horse Racing altogether.

My sentiments exactly. I used to hit something good 2 or 3 times a meet.
Now, I'm afraid to invest. If you're horse can't handle the greasy surface your done. If you have a front runner on the wrong bias, your done. If you have a closer, he's bottled up in traffic. The list goes on. Might as well play Blackjack or Roulette.

[andymays]

I have looked at the thread you recommended.
I see quotes from Calvin Borel, Gary Stute, and an expired SGV news article.


I forgot all the stuff in there since I started it but there should have been the now infamous Bruno De Julio email (inside joke) and some other stuff with links to articles! I've been fighting this battle for a couple of years now and It becomes too much to go over everything again so I apologize for that. That thread has a lot of information if you read the whole thing but there's also a lot of arguing and fighting between board members as well.

Anway, I'm checking out so have a good night all!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Does your statement imply West Coast racing now has large fields and large payoffs? :confused:
No, just seems like there were more complaints about Ca having small fields and low payoffs prior. I'm trying to understand why HANA info shows 2008 most of Ca had 7.5+ runners per race?

[spongemadman]

Has anyone else mentioned on one of these threads the way santa anita smells on a warm day(like a burning tireyard)?

[PaceAdvantage]

I take it synthetic tracks have replaced TVG as the PA whipping boy of the month? :lol: :lol:

[andymays]

Has anyone else mentioned on one of these threads the way santa anita smells on a warm day(like a burning tireyard)?


I stopped going when they installed the stuff.

Welcome to the Board!

[andymays]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/08/05/sports/horseracing/ze075453f9c8f3dad8825760700749055.txt

Excerpt:

Thumbs downs to Polytrack superintendent Steve Wood for digging up the inside of the track Saturday morning before the races and turning the track into a paved highway. How can anyone handicap the races when the track surface is changed every other day? Last Wednesday, it was deep and dug up. On Saturday, it was lightning fast.


:bang: :ThmbDown: :mad: :confused:

[andymays]

DEL MAR: Track inspires strange footwear : North County Times - Californian 08-05-2009
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/08/05/sports/horseracing/z66da4f780859d47e88257608007eb5d4.txt

Excerpt:

DEL MAR ---- Foot apparel can be all the rage at the racetrack.

Whether it's the shoes the horses wear or the fashionistas with their high heels, feet are where it's at ---- especially on the Polytrack.

Since Del Mar installed the synthetic Polytrack three years ago, trainers have been looking for the formula that would consistently get their thoroughbreds to the winner's circle.

Some would spray Pam, a cooking spray, on the bottom of their horses' hooves in order to keep the sandy like substance from building up while they run.

Others would have their horses go shoeless. Or course, by employing that strategy, if the horse won a big race there would be no memento to hang over the fireplace or in the trophy room. But that's beside the point.

[Cat Thief]

I used to bet California tracks all the time but I have switched to the East Coast and I too feel bad about what has happened plus I believe Stronach has Santa Anita up for sale and gosh knows what will happen to that track.

[andymays]

'Cougars' make tracks to Del Mar

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/aug/06/1n6cougar00820-cougars-make-tracks-del-mar/?sports/horseracing

Excerpt:

The cougar contest is one component of a multipronged strategy to promote the racetrack's glamorous social scene. With the nation in recession, Del Mar is among many tracks trying to drum up excitement among people who don't normally think about horse racing.



The Cougars will save Racing at Del Mar! Another you can't make it up story!

[Bison]

'Cougars' make tracks to Del Mar

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/aug/06/1n6cougar00820-cougars-make-tracks-del-mar/?sports/horseracing

Excerpt:

The cougar contest is one component of a multipronged strategy to promote the racetrack's glamorous social scene. With the nation in recession, Del Mar is among many tracks trying to drum up excitement among people who don't normally think about horse racing.



The Cougars will save Racing at Del Mar! Another you can't make it up story!

Trevor Denman actually made several announcements about the contest and that the winner was going to be paraded around the winner's circle.

He sounded serious about it, but surely he must have thought the whole thing was a little ridiculous.

[rwwupl]

Quote from Jeff Mende

I don't know about you, but, dammit, I want my Del Mar and Santa Anita back!



Amen times 10! :ThmbUp:


Me Too! :ThmbUp:

[levinmpa]

I haven't made a wager on a California synthetic surface race in over 2 years. This includes last Fall's Breeders' Cup. My own personal boycott. I will play the fair circuit and selected turf events at the major tracks, but I refuse to play any race run over a synthetic surface. I can't stand them, especially Del Mar with its ever changing surface. Please bring back the dirt.