Quality Road

[zerosky]

Running in tonight’s Amsterdam stakes trainer Todd Pletcher is quoted as follows...

"He hasn't run in a while, and six and one-half furlongs is a little short of his best game,
but he's a good horse and we're not planning on giving him a race in here,"

Not sure how to decipher the highlighted comment any thoughts?

[ryesteve]

In other words, they're trying to win...

[zerosky]

In other words, they're trying to win...

Thanks:ThmbUp:

[slew101]

I'm betting against him, likely with the No. 1 Everday Heroes.

[rjorio]

Remember the Amsterdam is just a prep race for Quality Road.The Travers is the goal.Caveat emptor.

[Java Gold@TFT]

I thought he looked a little keyed up in the paddock but when they got on the track he just looked like he was ready to run. He relaxed well and was challenged pretty hard around the 1/8th pole but finished professionally. Teletimer must be messed up as there were no fractions and when they posted them after the race they were way off. He'll need some good handling to stay up to this level and get 10F on the 29th. Still a nice comeback after all of the problems.

[slew101]

Surprised he won, but did get a nice setup. I was surprised Garcia gunned the 1 instead of letting the 2 clear and trying to rate just off him.

[RockHardTen1985]

Surprised he won, but did get a nice setup. I was surprised Garcia gunned the 1 instead of letting the 2 clear and trying to rate just off him.


Suprised he won??? He is the only legit threat to Rachel. His numbers early this year match up well with her, and he has the right style. He came back as good if not better and really won EASILY.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

Quality Road looks to be Rachel's main competition, besidesa Zenyatta of course. One thing to note is that his final time of 1:13.45 in the Amsterdam today isn't correct. I timed 5 other sprint races at Saratoga and they were all very close to 2 seconds faster than my online stopwatch. I started the clock right when the gates opened. For the Amsterdam, the final time was 3.3 seconds faster than the stopwatch, meaning that the final time was closer to 1:14.75. Still a fast time considering the trouble he had, but couldn't believe that equibase time at all, especially when I saw that 6 furlongs was run in 1:07.22

[RockHardTen1985]

Quality Road looks to be Rachel's main competition, besidesa Zenyatta of course. One thing to note is that his final time of 1:13.45 in the Amsterdam today isn't correct. I timed 5 other sprint races at Saratoga and they were all very close to 2 seconds faster than my online stopwatch. I started the clock right when the gates opened. For the Amsterdam, the final time was 3.3 seconds faster than the stopwatch, meaning that the final time was closer to 1:14.75. Still a fast time considering the trouble he had, but couldn't believe that equibase time at all, especially when I saw that 6 furlongs was run in 1:07.22


The final time is correct. It has been checked and reported that he broke track record, actually crushed it. The 3 quarter time was wrong, but not by much.

Why would anyone care about your online stopwatch?

[CincyHorseplayer]

Good to see him back and he had that extra gear in the stretch again.It looked like the 6 horse was going to blow by him.He's going to be a monster if he can stay healthy.

[onefast99]

Quality Road looks to be Rachel's main competition, besidesa Zenyatta of course. One thing to note is that his final time of 1:13.45 in the Amsterdam today isn't correct. I timed 5 other sprint races at Saratoga and they were all very close to 2 seconds faster than my online stopwatch. I started the clock right when the gates opened. For the Amsterdam, the final time was 3.3 seconds faster than the stopwatch, meaning that the final time was closer to 1:14.75. Still a fast time considering the trouble he had, but couldn't believe that equibase time at all, especially when I saw that 6 furlongs was run in 1:07.22
Don't forget the timer starts 34 feet from the gate.

[cj]

Don't forget the timer starts 34 feet from the gate.

I know where the time starts, and I keep getting a hair over 1:14.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why would anyone care about your online stopwatch?No reason to be an asshole about things....the guy is giving you a very plausible scenario, and facts to back it up...now all you have to do is find a replay and time the race yourself, then tell us how accurate the clocking is....

[Zenyatta To Crush]

The final time is correct. It has been checked and reported that he broke track record, actually crushed it. The 3 quarter time was wrong, but not by much.

Why would anyone care about your online stopwatch?
I think you are a little too caught up on this horse. He is obviously really good, but you don't have to put down what I think. I'm just telling you that all the other races besides the Amsterdam came back right. I guarantee it was not 1:13.45. That means that Capt. Candy Man Can also breaks the track record and Captain Cherokee just misses it. I'm sure the track was pretty fast too, but the time is still not right. I'm not taking anything away from Quality Road, he ran much better than I thought he would.

[fmolf]

No reason to be an asshole about things....the guy is giving you a very plausible scenario, and facts to back it up...now all you have to do is find a replay and time the race yourself, then tell us how accurate the clocking is....
"Time is only important in jail"

[RockHardTen1985]

No reason to be an asshole about things....the guy is giving you a very plausible scenario, and facts to back it up...now all you have to do is find a replay and time the race yourself, then tell us how accurate the clocking is....


Im going with what I got, as well as drf.com and a report on Crist Blog that says the time is right. I know I am the new guy, but really no need to team up on me. I guess Lifton and drf clockers are wrong, but zenyatta and his online timer are the goods. :confused:



5:44 pm: Dave Litfin is reporting over on The Inside Post that track officials are now saying the final time of the Amsterdam is correct and that only the six-furlong split is off -- it should have been 1:07.22 and not 1:06.85.

[point given]

10th race for Maiden Cl 20k went in 1:09.72 :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

Im going with what I got, as well as drf.com and a report on Crist Blog that says the time is right. I know I am the new guy, but really no need to team up on me. I guess Lifton and drf clockers are wrong, but zenyatta and his online timer are the goods. :confused: Nobody is teaming up. You're the one who said "who cares about your stopwatch."

You act as if we said "who cares about what RockHardTen posts."

We didn't say that kind of thing...you did....

What they are saying is, they actually timed the race, along with all the other races from the day, and this race is the only one that timed wrong.

I personally have not timed the race, so I have no opinion, but I would trust people who time the race more than I would trust something that seems highly improbable, just because it's printed in the DRF or Equibase.

Hell, they even ADMIT one of the internal fractions are WRONG...how can you sit there and blindly accept the final time then without checking yourself like others apparently have?

[ArlJim78]

Im going with what I got, as well as drf.com and a report on Crist Blog that says the time is right. I know I am the new guy, but really no need to team up on me.
spare us the drama.

if you're a new guy then i'm a runway model currently working in Paris.

[RockHardTen1985]

Ok...

[RockHardTen1985]

spare us the drama.

if you're a new guy then i'm a runway model currently working in Paris.


129 posts Jim.
Just signed up last month. Thats all I was saying. The new guy on this site.

[speed]

spare us the drama.

if you're a new guy then i'm a runway model currently working in Paris.

jim if u read his posts there is no doubt he is a newbie

[PaceAdvantage]

He's new to PaceAdvantage, but not new to Internet forums...now, let's get away from this personal line of replies and get back to talking about Quality Road's final time...

[RockHardTen1985]

New to this site is what I was saying... Anyone from who posts on DT knows who I am.

[RockHardTen1985]

He's new to PaceAdvantage, but not new to Internet forums...now, let's get away from this personal line of replies and get back to talking about Quality Road's final time...

Beyer is 103...
The time might be wrong.

[ArlJim78]

finishing only 2 1/4 lengths behind a 1:13.45 time, Captain Candyman also bettered the previous track record of 1:14.4

[RockHardTen1985]

finishing only 2 1/4 lengths behind a 1:13.45 time, Captain Candyman also bettered the previous track record of 1:14.4


I guess I got carried away. I have always liked him. I had him in both of his big Florida wins, and first time out at Aqueduct. I am biased.

[cj's dad]

Split times projected over 6.5 furlongs;

22.5 1st quarter = 1:13.125 for the 6-1/2 f
22.45 2nd quarter = 1:12.5 for 6-1/2 f
22.27 3rd quarter = 1:12.38 for 6-1/2 f.
6.23 last 1/2 f. = 1:12.99 for 6-1/2 f.

[cj]

Im going with what I got, as well as drf.com and a report on Crist Blog that says the time is right. I know I am the new guy, but really no need to team up on me. I guess Lifton and drf clockers are wrong, but zenyatta and his online timer are the goods. :confused:



5:44 pm: Dave Litfin is reporting over on The Inside Post that track officials are now saying the final time of the Amsterdam is correct and that only the six-furlong split is off -- it should have been 1:07.22 and not 1:06.85.

Litfin, Equibase, DRF, etc. are all reporting from one source. The track gives the final time and the others report it. If twenty more data providers were available, they would all report the same time because the information comes from the same source.

[RockHardTen1985]

Litfin, Equibase, DRF, etc. are all reporting from one source. The track gives the final time and the others report it. If twenty more data providers were available, they would all report the same time because the information comes from the same source.

ok

[Bruddah]

Whatever the true numbers are will come out in the wash. His performance coming off the shelf is phenomenal, no matter how you look at it. I hope his hooves aren't a problem the rest of his career. He darn sure has some ability and with his bloodline will make a heck of a stud. :ThmbUp:

[cj]

Nobody is arguing that it wasn't a good performance as I'm sure you know. The point is, once again, this sport can't get something as simple as the timing for a race right. It comes out when it is a big race, but if this were a 5k MCL race at Beulah, nobody notices. How hard is it to time a race?

[Bruddah]

Nobody is arguing that it wasn't a good performance as I'm sure you know. The point is, once again, this sport can't get something as simple as the timing for a race right. It comes out when it is a big race, but if this were a 5k MCL race at Beulah, nobody notices. How hard is it to time a race?

Obviously very hard when you're using antiquated equipment. I am sure someone will go to the film and we will soon know. Still a heck of a performance for coming off the shelf. When the other horse came to him, I thought, ok his lack of conditioning is going to make him come up short, Heck no! He looked at that one coming and found another gear. No matter the time or surface, it was a phenomenal performance for being on the shelf for over 90 days. He's the real deal! (JMHO)

[bisket]

the last time that you coulda got any kinda odds on this horse would have been in the derby. its really a shame about his split nail; this horse was a definate possibility to win the crown. i absolutely love his breeding. a sire with classy speed over a mare with tons of stamina in her pedigree. thats usually a formula for a good one. lots of times breeders try to cross a sprinter with stamina. that doesn't work, but classy speed like elusive quality (miler) with stamina is a good combo. stawberry road's line has always been a fav of mine.

[Irish Boy]

He won a 6.5F sprint by 2 1/2 lengths against the 3yo also-rans who weren't game enough for the real challenges this weekend. Let's not get carried away here.

[slewis]

I was not impressed with QR's races in FL. I thought the FD was run on a souped up racetrack.

Todays track was lightning fast too. Regardless, I was very impressed with the race.

What many people fail to address here is his trip and how he ran.

Everyone getting caught up in the mis-timing of the race (and it was mistimed, and I'll address that in a second.)

QR was in the 3-4 path, which might not have been a horribly bad place to be today, but it still aint the shortest distance between pt A and pt B.

Regarding the time. I was standing adjacent to McLaughlin when he watched the replay with his owners. He asked me what I thought because he knows I make figures. I told them there was no way in hell the race went in anywhere near the posted time and I gave my reasons for which I wont go into.

Im not an expert on video, but I used to "capture" the live feed on some very sophisticated video rendering software which captures at a rate of 29.57 frames per second...and times in thousandths. I used to do it because I felt the turf times were always questionable and I thought Id have an edge.
After a few yrs I stopped because the amount of work transferring onto DVD was too time consuming vs the edge I was getting.
Video can be tricky, again Im not an expert, but it was explained to me that if you dont record or capture the race live, getting a video replay (like on a races of the week, or nightly show) may not be accurate, so careful.

It sounds to me like CJ has the right idea by doing it (timing) numerous times from the gate opening, and then timing where he approximates the trigger to be, then coming up with several approximate results which when averaged are probably very close to the actual time.
My experience using that system has always yielded the best results.

Regardless, it was a very very strong effort.

[cj]

I ran the race with the reported times through my pace charts that I have been using to make figures for years now. They are adjusted for track and distance.

Those times give me a Beyer style pace figure for the leader of 111 and a Beyer style speed figure for the winner of 144. There is no way that is accurate. The spread is too big for a dirt sprint, way bigger than any I've ever seen when the pace figure is lower than the speed figure. I'm more sure the time is wrong now than ever, and the fractions are probably a bit out of whack too.

[positive4th]

FWIW (and boy am I SICK of watching that race now :lol: ) I just timed it 11 times and got an average time of 1:14.27 - - - - - - that is very rough as I was having to estimate where timing began (and ended, for that matter as the in-house stream wasn't head-on at the Finish)..............still I think that was enough to be able to say pretty confidently that 1:14 & 1/5 is a fair clocking of that race. Just my opinion, albeit based on what I saw and clocked.

[positive4th]

FWIW (and boy am I SICK of watching that race now :lol: ) I just timed it 11 times and got an average time of 1:14.27 - - - - - - that is very rough as I was having to estimate where timing began (and ended, for that matter as the in-house stream wasn't head-on at the Finish)..............still I think that was enough to be able to say pretty confidently that 1:14 & 1/5 is a fair clocking of that race. Just my opinion, albeit based on what I saw and clocked.

So yeah, I can't see where the listed time of 1:13.45 is coming from..............I've watched it enough times to be certain that that time is not correct, unless I'm SERIOUSLY mis-calculating the starting point.

[DrugS]

FWIW (and boy am I SICK of watching that race now :lol: ) I just timed it 11 times and got an average time of 1:14.27 - - - - - - that is very rough as I was having to estimate where timing began (and ended, for that matter as the in-house stream wasn't head-on at the Finish)..............still I think that was enough to be able to say pretty confidently that 1:14 & 1/5 is a fair clocking of that race. Just my opinion, albeit based on what I saw and clocked.

Go time Kodiak Cowboy winning the Amsterdam last year and tell me what you get.

[speed]

I ran the race with the reported times through my pace charts that I have been using to make figures for years now. They are adjusted for track and distance.

Those times give me a Beyer style pace figure for the leader of 111 and a Beyer style speed figure for the winner of 144. There is no way that is accurate. The spread is too big for a dirt sprint, way bigger than any I've ever seen when the pace figure is lower than the speed figure. I'm more sure the time is wrong now than ever, and the fractions are probably a bit out of whack too.


There is now doubt it is incorrect for they have the 3rd quarter going in 22.2 or so and there is no chance that is correct. Now the track was very fast late in the day so 114.2 or so seems in line with the 108 and change the race prior and the maiden 20,000 going 109.4 in the finale. How NYRA releases that they have checked and confirmed these fractions makes me quite concerned.

With as fast as the track was late in the day if they said the fractions were 43.2 107.2 113.2 i would say possible. But i still trust CJ estimates of 114.2 with confidence.

[RockHardTen1985]

I ran the race with the reported times through my pace charts that I have been using to make figures for years now. They are adjusted for track and distance.

Those times give me a Beyer style pace figure for the leader of 111 and a Beyer style speed figure for the winner of 144. There is no way that is accurate. The spread is too big for a dirt sprint, way bigger than any I've ever seen when the pace figure is lower than the speed figure. I'm more sure the time is wrong now than ever, and the fractions are probably a bit out of whack too.

During the race the fractions never came up... Im guessing some sort of malfunction ? I have saw the replay 12 times now and nothing for the opening quarters... Durkin normally calls them, but for some reasson it was John I.

[speed]

During the race the fractions never came up... Im guessing some sort of malfunction ? I have saw the replay 12 times now and nothing for the opening quarters... Durkin normally calls them, but for some reasson it was John I.


Durkin was hand timing the race. When he saw the time of 113.45 he dropped the watch, breaking it and thus causing this confusing. :D

[positive4th]

Go time Kodiak Cowboy winning the Amsterdam last year and tell me what you get.

Yeah, and it was watching this video that now has me thinking that maybe 113.45 is indeed a possibility. Caught a better view of the timer @ start, used that as a guideline, and ticked off a 115.42 & 115.38 (Official time of that race = 115.56).

Sooooooooo..........I went back to the '09 Edition, found the same little tower at the beginning and timed from there.......113.28 & 113.31, meaning that in each race (08 & 09)I had a clocking that was precisely .14 seconds faster than the official, leading me to conclude that 113.45 is possible, and its lightning fast, and QR is a freak :)

[DrugS]

Yep.

If you want to try another one - type in Visionaire and hand time his ALW win at 6.5 furlongs in his first Saratoga start of '08.

The fractions might be wrong with todays Amsterdam .. but if the final clocking is off .. so is the final clocking of the 6.5 furlong races from last years Saratoga meet.

[positive4th]

Yep.

If you want to try another one - type in Visionaire and hand time his ALW win at 6.5 furlongs in his first Saratoga start of '08.

The fractions might be wrong with todays Amsterdam .. but if the final clocking is off .. so is the final clocking of the 6.5 furlong races from last years Saratoga meet.

Agreed..........its pretty tough to argue the final time now that someone pointed me to last year's edition............I'll check out the Visionaire one tomorrow as my eyes are getting tired :)

[Robert Goren]

There is something rotten in Denmark. What kind of track has md 20k going 6f in 109 3/5? If that can happen then GII horse can go 6 1/2 in 113 2/5. Just think what Dr Fager would have run over this track!

[classhandicapper]

Nobody is arguing that it wasn't a good performance as I'm sure you know. The point is, once again, this sport can't get something as simple as the timing for a race right. It comes out when it is a big race, but if this were a 5k MCL race at Beulah, nobody notices. How hard is it to time a race?

This is one reason it sometimes pays to be a classhandicapper. ;)

Seriously, you know I love numbers, but in addition to the long list of well know complexities to the figure making process, sometimes they get times wrong. :bang:

When you view races from a qualitative perspective also, it sometimes highlights figures that just can't be right. How could that not be helpful in a game where the best horses in the world are only a second or so better than horses that would be 100-1 against them?

[Moyers Pond]

The time is correct. He is a very good horse that ran on a very fast track. That explains everything. The beyer was only a 103 so it was part the track.

I hand timed it and NYRA got it right. I actually timed it slightly quicker.


Pretty impressive breaking 2 track records in his first 5 starts. One at Gulfstream and one at Saratoga.

[ryesteve]

The beyer was only a 103Maybe the Beyer folks used a time they thought was more accurate, rather than the official one.

[Moyers Pond]

Maybe the Beyer folks used a time they thought was more accurate, rather than the official one.

They used the track record time but the track was just very fast. He has already broken the 110+ beyer number so he is obviously fast.

I hope he wins the Travers and sets up a matchup with Rachel Alexandra in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

[DrugS]

They used the track record time

No they didnt.

[ryesteve]

They used the track record timeNo

[bisket]

this is starting to look like secratariat's preakness

[PaceAdvantage]

If they used the track record time and only gave him a 103, that would be preposterous....

[Java Gold@TFT]

If they used the track record time and only gave him a 103, that would be preposterous....
Beyer said yesterday that he used Randy Moss' time of 1:14.7. Moss has some sophisticated software to time videos and Beyer trusted that time more than the official time. He said that if the track time was correct then Quality Road would have gotten a 119. I'd have to find the article again but it was either on drf or Bloodhorse this morning.

[cj's dad]

The time has been adjusted to 1:13.74 which proves that mistakes have and will continue to be made.

[Ron]

August 5, 2009 at 4:40 pm by Tim Wilkin
SARATOGA SPRINGS — Quality Road’s record-breaking performance in Monday’s Grade II Amsterdam at the Spa is still a record. But the time has changed.

The New York Racing Association announced Wednesday that the final time for Quality Road’s 6 1/2 furlong win was 1:13.74. Initially, it was announced as 1:13.45, breaking the 30-year-old track record of 1:14 2/5, set by Topsider in 1979.

Two NYRA clockers independently re-timed the race to get the new time. The fractional times were 22.45, 44.55, 1:07.22 and 1:13.74.

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/the-amsterdam-time-changes-but-its-still-a-record/2279/

[speed]

August 5, 2009 at 4:40 pm by Tim Wilkin
SARATOGA SPRINGS — Quality Road’s record-breaking performance in Monday’s Grade II Amsterdam at the Spa is still a record. But the time has changed.

The New York Racing Association announced Wednesday that the final time for Quality Road’s 6 1/2 furlong win was 1:13.74. Initially, it was announced as 1:13.45, breaking the 30-year-old track record of 1:14 2/5, set by Topsider in 1979.

Two NYRA clockers independently re-timed the race to get the new time. The fractional times were 22.45, 44.55, 1:07.22 and 1:13.74.

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/the-amsterdam-time-changes-but-its-still-a-record/2279/

This is even more absurd. With these fractions they went a next to impossible 22.67 third quarter and then the final 1/16 slowed waaaaay down coming home in 6.52.

Impossible IMO

[cj]

Agreed...the final time is questionable, the fractions are absurd.

[Tom]

What's next for TOGA, a grandstand on wheels?:rolleyes:
Ah, I love Gulfstream in the summertime.

[speed]

What's next for TOGA, a grandstand on wheels?:rolleyes:
Ah, I love Gulfstream in the summertime.


I enjoy it when Mr Monkey does your typing.

Hilarious

[PaceAdvantage]

Agreed...the final time is questionable, the fractions are absurd.Maybe you should call them up and show them how it's done...wild that it takes this much to get an accurate timing off of a video replay.

[46zilzal]

Timers are based upon successive breaking of electronic beams at stationary points along the rails. I was of the opinion that Lawyer Ron's Time was in doubt a few years back. maybe the same here as things OTHER than the horses (we have had tow episodes of birds setting them off) can stop that timer.


Having said that I believe those fractions were in the realm of this one's ability

[46zilzal]

5:44 pm: Dave Litfin is reporting over on The Inside Post that track officials are now saying the final time of the Amsterdam is correct and that only the six-furlong split is off -- it should have been 1:07.22 and not 1:06.85.
THAT is what the chart says 107 and change

[Alan Wight]

Can anyone post a screen capture of the point where the timing for the Amsterdam begins?

Is it the black and white striped pole that the horses reach about 3 seconds after the stall doors start to open?

[cj]

Having said that I believe those fractions were in the realm of this one's ability

Of course they are, the posted ones are much slower than he actually ran.

[rokitman]

I enjoy it when Mr Monkey does your typing.

Hilarious
:D