Racing's target audience?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Who should racing target to become betting and/or non-betting newbies?
If #1, should racing invent a new racing video game, maybe one in which you can put names of horse and connections in, options for racetrack, surface, race condition, distance?

[andymays]

Racing should target anyone with a pulse! :)

Truthfully, they should learn to take care of the people they already have before they target a new demographic to screw.

It's a "word of mouth" thing and the 'word of mouth" right now is mostly negative!

[phatbastard]

get the ladies there......the gentlemen will follow

[bane]

...College Students.

[jballscalls]

younger sales types with disposable income and a need for action. :)

[rastajenk]

Empty nesters with the time and money needed to sustain a learning curve.

[kenwoodallpromos]

by my own post you can tell my answer is teens. I think non-violent horseracing picks game with realism can be promoted as an alternative to violent video games and real sports gambling; Also youngsters may kieep teen influences for a lifetime. (When did you first get interested in racing? Do you still have an appreciation for things that influenced you as a teen?)

"Total U.S. consumer spending at commercial casinos more than doubled in the decade from 1994 to 2004, jumping from $13.8 billion to $28.93 billion, according to the American Gaming Association. There was a 7.1 percent increase in casino spending from 2003 to 2004.

In 2005, 53 percent of adult Americans played the lottery, 35 percent gambled in a casino, 18 percent played poker, 6 percent bet on a race and 2 percent engaged in Internet gambling, the AGA found."
This AGA survey flies opposite of racing trends of internet gaming and of adult gaming preference; should racing really target adults? other than the current trend of live casinos at the tracks?
I know racing spends very little money and shows very little effort to bring new bettors/fans into the gams, but should it?

[DJofSD]

Does racing have a targeted audience? No, not in my opinion. It has three: the breeders, the owners and the bettors.

Can the promotion of any one of those three over the other two increase racings appeal in an effort to attract new participants? No. All three are needed to make it work.

What can racing do to attract new participants? First, stop losing your existing base. Second, stop acting like all of the current problems are outside of the control of the various segments of the industry, for example, the economy. Third, address the issues the current participants have voiced concerns or complaints: perception of rampant drug use, the broken intertrack wagering system, etc.

Is there a single "fix" that can turn things around, a "magic bullet"? No. Work on the incremental issues (little things) and the rest will follow.

[Tom Barrister]

There's nobody to target. Before racing bothers marketing their product, they need to clean up their act with ADWs, infighting, drugs, other cheating, absurd takeout rates, etc. Racing has to make itself competitive with other forms of gaming/gambling before it bothers going after anybody with more intelligence than a geranium.

[miesque]

get the ladies there......the gentlemen will follow

I have to respond to this comment simply because I see this brought up on a regular basis and as such I want to point out that I am not just jumping on you. First, getting "the ladies" to the track is a two way street if you catch my drift. If you happen to be part of the track constiuency who look as if they just rolled out of bed and haven't taken a shower let alone shaved in a few days surrounded by a cloud of cigarette smoke, suffice it to say you are not exactly helping the cause. I bring this up because I have specifically heard such individuals complain about there not being enough "chicks at the track." :rolleyes: Second, I don't have any figures but I would assume that there is a higher percentage of women at a track like Arlington Park then one like Aqueduct because things like cleanliness, brightness, decent customer service and an overall more positive environment are more appealing to women and is an important element in any sort of significant push to increase female attendance on a regular basis.

[dutchboy]

Years ago I read an article about Hong Kong or Japanese racetrack marketing.

Their marketing was targeted toward to the young women who worked if the area. Their opinion was that if you are able to get them to the track the men will follow. As more young men showed up more young women would follow.

This was the exact opposite of tracks in the USA which has had the theory for many years that NO marketing or advertising is best. If they were forced to spend mktg funds it should be targeted toward the people who would show up anyway.

Based on handle and attendance at tracks I would guess the Hong Kong idea was the best plan.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Marketing to the young and college aged students is good but it is a long term prospect as far as generating handle. They have to come in to the mold and stay for 20 years in order to see the real money benefits. I love saratoga but on a nice weekend day when the college kids and families come to the picnic area, the percapita drops by $15/head. The tracks need to keep those people there until they can afford to spend a little more. That's the marketing key that really needs to be addressed. It's one thing to get them into the gate but it's another to keep them coming back when money may be easier to spend. Bodies in the stands are great but you have to follow the money to keep racing alive.

[miesque]

Marketing to the young and college aged students is good but it is a long term prospect as far as generating handle. They have to come in to the mold and stay for 20 years in order to see the real money benefits. I love saratoga but on a nice weekend day when the college kids and families come to the picnic area, the percapita drops by $15/head. The tracks need to keep those people there until they can afford to spend a little more. That's the marketing key that really needs to be addressed. It's one thing to get them into the gate but it's another to keep them coming back when money may be easier to spend. Bodies in the stands are great but you have to follow the money to keep racing alive.

I think thats a good point you brought up and I think that from a per capita perspecitive the two best niches to target are (1) the baby boomers getting ready to retire since they have the two important attributes, disposable income and an upswing in free time to dedicate to learning the game and (2) young professionals who are at least a few years into their careers and hence have moved up the payscale enough to have a resonable level of disposable income to start doing things like travelling to tracks and having enough bankroll a full day of play at the track and based on my personal experience I would say the lower end of that spectrum is age 25.

[jballscalls]

I can't believe this thread hasn't evolved into personal attacks and telling one another how stupid they are!!

this is great stuff guys, as someone who does marketing for a track (and yes our handle,attendence and sales are up :) ) my boss and i have really been going over this same topic for a year now. We are seeing gains, but obviously have verrrry far to go.

[Robert Goren]

Internet poker was built on college males. Why can't racing do the same?

[Java Gold@TFT]

Internet poker was built on college males. Why can't racing do the same?
Because it takes 2 minutes to play a hand of poker and it takes 30 minutes to properly analyze a race and then you wait 30 minutes for the next one (if you are at the track which is what we're talking about). They don't have the attention span to understand handicapping compared to a one or two minute hand of poker. They also play 12 tables at a time with one minute between hands. Gen X has no attention span. Ask the drug companies who thrive on selling useless drugs for ADD.

[miesque]

Because it takes 2 minutes to play a hand of poker and it takes 30 minutes to properly analyze a race and then you wait 30 minutes for the next one (if you are at the track which is what we're talking about). They don't have the attention span to understand handicapping compared to a one or two minute hand of poker. They also play 12 tables at a time with one minute between hands. Gen X has no attention span. Ask the drug companies who thrive on selling useless drugs for ADD.

In all fairness, you are wrongfully maligning Generation X, its Generation Y you are referring to as Generation X has been out of college for some time.

[Java Gold@TFT]

In all fairness, you are wrongfully maligning Generation X, its Generation Y you are referring to as Generation X has been out of college for some time.
Sorry, I just feel that in my mid 40's I have lost track of all of the labels since babyboomers was THE label.

[miesque]

Sorry, I just feel that in my mid 40's I have lost track of all of the labels since babyboomers was THE label.

No problem, as a Generation Xer who was a teenager in the 80s, I just had to comment ;) I have actually always found these labels interesting, especially in terms of how they are utilized in marketing, this is slightly offtopic, but there is some relevance since we are talking about demographcs to target.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generations

The Silent Generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Generation) was the generation who was too young to join the service when World War II started and prior to the end of the war. Many had fathers who served in World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I).


The Baby Boom Generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Boom_Generation) was the generation born just after World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II), a time that included a 14-year increase in birthrate worldwide. Baby Boomers in their teenage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage) and college (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College) years were characteristically part of the counterculture of the 1960s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture_of_the_1960s), but later became more ideologically divided, although the generation remained widely committed to keystone values such as gender equality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_equality), racial equality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_equality), and environmental stewardship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmentalism).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generations#cite_note-r5-1)


Generation X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X) is the generation connected to the pop culture of the 1980s to the early 1990s they grew up in.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generations#cite_note-2) Other names used interchangeably with Generation X are Reagan Generation, 13th Generation, and Baby Busters. Most of this generation are children of The Baby Boomers and The Silent Generation. Those born before 1973 spent most of their teen years in the 1980s.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generations#cite_note-r5-1) The last of those in Generation X were born in 1981 and graduated high school in 1999. [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generations#cite_note-3)




The MTV Generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_Generation) are typically conceived as a "cusp" generation between Generation X and Generation Y that possess definable traits of both. While the music video (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_video) and MTV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV) rose to prominence during this generation's formative period, it is also notable for being the last generation able to compare hardwired (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardwired) and analog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog) technologies to wireless (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless) and digital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital) technologies based upon personal experiences. They are also the last generation with personal memories of the Cold War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War) era, and are sometimes called the Cold Y Generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Y_Generation).



The Generation Y (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Y), or the "Millennials", are said to be dependent on digital technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_technology)[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]. The start of this generation is marked by those born in 1982 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982), or graduated high school in 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000).[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generations#cite_note-4) The end is far less clear, from 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991) to 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996). It is in this generation that mobile phones, PCs and portable entertainment devices became affordable and readily available when the Gen Y-ers were in their teens or early 20s.


Generation Z (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Z) are modern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern) children, born from somewhere in the mid of the 1990s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s) to the present, but some are claimed to born as early as 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991).

[jballscalls]

agree about the ADD generation. In our OTB, i see these sick puppies that make a bet, lose, and just look for the next race that is 2 MTP or less. and they do this all day long. They probably would do alright if they would just focus on one or two tracks, but so many young people are action junkies

[Indulto]

I wouldn't target women directly, but by targeting them indirectly, the industry would create generations of new players.

I've only attended live racing in NY,NJ,VT,PA,FL, and CA, but the only times I've noticed an abundance of women was at SAR and DMR and I doubt they contributed much to handle.

It's certainly true that women are more fastidious than men, but I also believe that in America, they are generally less inclined to gamble than men; particularly on racing -- although I've met more women involved with horses outside of racing than men.

Women in CA and FL seemed more willing to accompany their significant other to the track than elsewhere, but seemed to have little passion for handicapping/betting. I think it's possible to get women interested in horse racing, but I think it generally takes getting them interested in a man who is interested in horse racing. I've long advocated handicapping contests for singles or singles dances at tracks, as well as child care for a parent or parents trying to spend a day focusing on a significant other (it could also get kids interested which is one reason McDonald's is so successful -- the kids want to go there).

Apparently women take to racing on their own to a greater extent in some other countries. A friend who visited Australia told me that women there were far more likely to gamble, and that he met quite a few who grew up in familes interested in horse racing.

[W2G]

Internet poker was built on college males. Why can't racing do the same?

Honestly, because racing is more esoteric, and because poker is as much about about personality/psychology as it is about skills. Racing is a singularly cerebral game and not made for TV like poker. That said, it could still happen, but I'm not at all sure how to make it happen.

I think all major circuits reach out to the younger set with, at least, Friday night/twilight cards and accompanying music and drink specials. CD's Friday experiment under the lights was a huge success. Beyond that, more targeted promotions toward college students must continue -- the joy of discovering predictable patterns out of apparent chaos is not lost on smart, curious kids.

Women. This is an opportunity. Racing enjoys a strategic advantage in that females like our sport in a disproportionate number compared with other major spectator sports. "Racing" got this and ran with it by promoting RA's Preakness and TV ratings soared. Sadly, so many of those female viewers do not realize that racing exists beyond the Triple Crown and are oblivious to what she did in today's Haskell.

The challenge remains. We must convert the TV viewer into a casual fan, and the casual fan into a core fan, and the core fan into a regular horseplayer.

[fmolf]

Honestly, because racing is more esoteric, and because poker is as much about about personality/psychology as it is about skills. Racing is a singularly cerebral game and not made for TV like poker. That said, it could still happen, but I'm not at all sure how to make it happen.

I think all major circuits reach out to the younger set with, at least, Friday night/twilight cards and accompanying music and drink specials. CD's Friday experiment under the lights was a huge success. Beyond that, more targeted promotions toward college students must continue -- the joy of discovering predictable patterns out of apparent chaos is not lost on smart, curious kids.

Women. This is an opportunity. Racing enjoys a strategic advantage in that females like our sport in a disproportionate number compared with other major spectator sports. "Racing" got this and ran with it by promoting RA's Preakness and TV ratings soared. Sadly, so many of those female viewers do not realize that racing exists beyond the Triple Crown and are oblivious to what she did in today's Haskell.

The challenge remains. We must convert the TV viewer into a casual fan, and the casual fan into a core fan, and the core fan into a regular horseplayer.
Look at poker...they market the skill it takes to excel at the game....they offer free sites where players can hone their skills.....why can't horse racing offer free sights where newbies can be directed to free pp's...tutorials..and an account ledger to keep track of his practice bets?When he reaches a certain level of competence he wins free admission to the track with free parking and free drf.Young people are not going to come to the track and get hooked on racing if there are no perks offered.tracks need to build nightclubs into their facilities and other modern amenities to attract young men or young women.If enough of either congregate in one place the other sex will not be far behind.Hire some modern marketing people who are not connected to racings old guard in any way and follow their recommendations.Then pray their successful enough to save our game!

[rastajenk]

Here's the problem with expending resources to get 'em while they're young:

Most of them will get married, start families, and be diverted away from things like gambling on horses for years to come. So what's your ROI from marketing to young adults? Are there better ROI's out there? Seems likely the answer is yes, so it's better business sense to pursue those.

[kenwoodallpromos]

First, the study I quoted lists lottery, casinos, racing, then internet gambling in that order; It is also the order of ease of playing, with lottery at the corner store and random. There is little difficulty finding casinos (24/7) or figuring out the games, and there are many games to play. With racing you have to figure out when the track or OTB is open, how to play, how to pick the horses. With internet gambling of any type with real money you have to figure out how to navigate the sites, play the games somewhat, and they are not anonymous at all.
The above rankings seem to be in order of anonimy, ease of playing, free entry into the venue so all you pay for is the bet.
I will make two proposals now- give out Oaklawn-type home horseracing video games with "cheats" and the ability to enter current horse's names, and make it so each player can have their own horse and overall betting account (limit field size to maybe 6). Give them away at tracks and at video rental stores, free to order at racing websites and racing channels.
And, on all track or OTB programs, include jockey and trainer win % to date for the year, and a Beyer or other speed rating for the horse.
The general public has to begin thinking about horseracing regardless of age!

[fmolf]

First, the study I quoted lists lottery, casinos, racing, then internet gambling in that order; It is also the order of ease of playing, with lottery at the corner store and random. There is little difficulty finding casinos (24/7) or figuring out the games, and there are many games to play. With racing you have to figure out when the track or OTB is open, how to play, how to pick the horses. With internet gambling of any type with real money you have to figure out how to navigate the sites, play the games somewhat, and they are not anonymous at all.
The above rankings seem to be in order of anonimy, ease of playing, free entry into the venue so all you pay for is the bet.
I will make two proposals now- give out Oaklawn-type home horseracing video games with "cheats" and the ability to enter current horse's names, and make it so each player can have their own horse and overall betting account (limit field size to maybe 6). Give them away at tracks and at video rental stores, free to order at racing websites and racing channels.
And, on all track or OTB programs, include jockey and trainer win % to date for the year, and a Beyer or other speed rating for the horse.
The general public has to begin thinking about horseracing regardless of age!
In my opinion they also need to have more night racing people need to be able to go to the track and enjoy a leisurly time....sat and sun afternoon is family time now and fri and sat night should do well like churchills experiment did.

[Irish Boy]

People need to stop seeing everything through the lens of handle. Build popularity first. The handle will follow. Lower handle is a symptom, not the disease.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I say teens.I wish I would have learned the game earlier because I could have made money sooner!!

I think of Jim Quinn's account of Lee Rousso.By 25 yrs old he was an a$s kicker.Because he had racing on his mind as a young teen.

[46zilzal]

I have witnessed the feeble attempts to get the younger crowds out: an entire generation of ADHD patients. I doubt that MOST of them wouldn't learn the game ("it's too boring!") even if they had the best instructors around.

[sandpit]

Who racing should be marketed to:
1. the employed. Even in this crappy economy, that's still about 90% of the potential workforce. How come they aren't at the races? Most of them are working when the first goes off at nearly every track in America. Night racing may not be a cure all everywhere, but it sure would help in a lot of spots.
2. the unemployed with money. In other words, retired people that aren't broke. Do like the casinos do and drive a bus to pick them up at their retirement communities. Ellis Park used to actually do something akin to this by getting groups of seniors to come to their dining room. Most of them were annual repeat visitors and they had a great time.
3. young women. Not only as fans, but hire them at every point where there is employee/customer interaction. Hooters is not getting rich because their food is like Ruth's Chris Steak House. As a matter of fact, if I had a track I'd put a Hooters or some similar establishment right in the middle of the grandstand and make every one of the waitress learn how to talk intelligently about the races and supply them with hand held betting machines.

[PaceAdvantage]

wealthy degenerate gamblers?

[Robert Goren]

I used to work with a lot of college kids. They bet on football and basketball. They played online poker. They went to the casino and played blackjack. They had read a book on card counting, but after 2 drinks they stop counting. They played on any way.They had never bet a horse in their life. They liked cheap good beer and girls in that order. Friday and Saturday night racing, real drink specials and good looking women tellers are the way to go if you want the kids I worked with. One more thing the night for them starts at 11pm.

[Robert Goren]

After pondering this for a while I am not sure that young is the way to go. Maybe the people to go after is the newly retired. Most have bet on a horse sometime or another. They have time to waste and some money. There is a new group every year. Most think they are smart enough with a little work they can out think anyone. I am not real sure how you get them started, but I think that may be the market.

[castaway01]

After pondering this for a while I am not sure that young is the way to go. Maybe the people to go after is the newly retired. Most have bet on a horse sometime or another. They have time to waste and some money. There is a new group every year. Most think they are smart enough with a little work they can out think anyone. I am not real sure how you get them started, but I think that may be the market.

I think you're on to something. Compared with a 30-year-old, the average 55-year-old male has more disposable income, more free time (since more than half of all race cards are still run on weekday afternoons), and is less likely to be bothered by the slower pace of racing. Plus, people in their twenties are having trouble finding good jobs, they're starting families, they're working a lot of hours at the jobs they do have....that's hard money to get at. That is why 20-year-olds are the target audience in almost every television commmercial and are very jaded towards advertising (when they're watching network TV at all; a show that can get 5% of the 18-to-49 demographic is an advertising goldmine). In the current economic climate the 50 to 60-year-old is most likely to have the time, money, and interest---that's where I'd place my efforts if you want people to bet substantial sums (in time, after they get comfortable).

[ryesteve]

I think you're on to something. Compared with a 30-year-old, the average 55-year-old male has more disposable income, more free time (since more than half of all race cards are still run on weekday afternoons), and is less likely to be bothered by the slower pace of racing. Plus, people in their twenties are having trouble finding good jobs, they're starting families, they're working a lot of hours at the jobs they do have....that's hard money to get at. That is why 20-year-olds are the target audience in almost every television commmercialDidn't you just contradict yourself here?

In any case, the reason that 18-49 year olds are the key advertising demo is because once you reach a certain age, your habits and tendencies are pretty much set, and it's very hard for advertising to change behavior. It's really hard for me to imagine a 62 year old who's spent his whole life without having an interest in horse racing, will all of a sudden be converted by a marketing campaign. You need to reach people when they're younger, regardless of whether or not this is the group that has the most disposable time and income at the moment.

[castaway01]

Didn't you just contradict yourself here?

In any case, the reason that 18-49 year olds are the key advertising demo is because once you reach a certain age, your habits and tendencies are pretty much set, and it's very hard for advertising to change behavior. It's really hard for me to imagine a 62 year old who's spent his whole life without having an interest in horse racing, will all of a sudden be converted by a marketing campaign. You need to reach people when they're younger, regardless of whether or not this is the group that has the most disposable time and income at the moment.

No, not a contradiction---my point was that everyone ELSE in advertising is after the 20-year-olds already and that audience is so fragmented that advertisers are happy with a tiny fraction of it. Meanwhile, there is an ignored consumer in his 50s and 60s who is already aware of horse racing. I think it's quite likely that a 60-year-old male has been to a racetrack in his life, don't you? Remember when attendance was 20,000 on the weekends at some tracks? These people were once casually aware of the sport, used to go a few times a year in their younger days but got away from it as other interests came along, they raised families and spent time with them on the weekends, whatever. Now suddenly they're retired and have the time for new hobbies. If you can get them out to the track once or twice a month, you can build handle right now and you don't have to totally teach them from scratch.

Obviously long term you need young people, but some of these tracks might not be around in thirty years so I was trying to boost interest in the near future among those with cash to spend.

[fmolf]

No, not a contradiction---my point was that everyone ELSE in advertising is after the 20-year-olds already and that audience is so fragmented that advertisers are happy with a tiny fraction of it. Meanwhile, there is an ignored consumer in his 50s and 60s who is already aware of horse racing. I think it's quite likely that a 60-year-old male has been to a racetrack in his life, don't you? Remember when attendance was 20,000 on the weekends at some tracks? These people were once casually aware of the sport, used to go a few times a year in their younger days but got away from it as other interests came along, they raised families and spent time with them on the weekends, whatever. Now suddenly they're retired and have the time for new hobbies. If you can get them out to the track once or twice a month, you can build handle right now and you don't have to totally teach them from scratch.

Obviously long term you need young people, but some of these tracks might not be around in thirty years so I was trying to boost interest in the near future among those with cash to spend.back in the glory daysbefore simulcasting ny bettors bet on nyra tracks....Today their is so much racing the product is watered down and americas horse racing dollar is spread around more tracks than ever.I can only see more and more tracks going out of business as politicians realize that they can get more money in the coffers by not subsidizing racing but gouging casino profits and not having to share with horsemen.People complain about bailouts by the govt. this is exactly what they are doing with the horse racing industry!

[rastajenk]

Gee, I think I said some of these things 30 posts ago. :cool:

People always talk about racing's fan base dieing off as if everyone in a simulcast joint is 85 years old. There's a constant source of old people, and that's younger old people: people who may find themselves with more time on their hands than they're used to, and if they're lucky maybe some expendable resources, still active and acute enough to take on new mental challenges, and so on. Some of these newly empty-nested, maybe retired, maybe not quite retired but getting close, some of these may even buy a horse and become part of the racing community. I know it sounds far-fetched, but I see them every day and it is still happening.

It's OK to have Friday night hip-hops for the younger set to imprint the notion that it's not just a bunch of wino degenerates that go the races. And it's OK to have scantily clad young ladies offering free samples of Miller Low-Cal Low-Al Chill with a Touch of Pomegranate. But don't stake your future on them.

At age 53, I am moving into the demographic I'm talking about. Some in their early 50's are already there. I have witnessed it in over 20 years working in various racetrack management capacities, and I have witnessed it as an individual with a wife and child and mortgage and a car payment or two and so on and so on.

Think about where the Baby Boomers are on the timeline(and all the chances they've had to benefit from improved productivity, enhanced communications, an explosion of scientific research and discovery, etc.), and what Gens X-Y-Z are facing in the near future. Anybody wanna change his vote? :)

[miesque]

I don't think this is an all or nothing type of endeavor and I would like to point out that there are some areas of change that transcend a lot of the difference demographic niches. For example, if I might get back up on my soapbox for a few seconds, customer service is one area where improvements are appreciated across the board, be it a casual fan $2 dollar bettor, a die hard regular in the simulcast area or someone up in the Turf Club. The top casinos understand customer service very well and its because of this that I think its possible that NYRA may be sorry to get what it asked for if a top notch casino sets up shop as a competitor in the same building as they are in.

[boomman]

I don't think this is an all or nothing type of endeavor and I would like to point out that there are some areas of change that transcend a lot of the difference demographic niches. For example, if I might get back up on my soapbox for a few seconds, customer service is one area where improvements are appreciated across the board, be it a casual fan $2 dollar bettor, a die hard regular in the simulcast area or someone up in the Turf Club. The top casinos understand customer service very well and its because of this that I think its possible that NYRA may be sorry to get what it asked for if a top notch casino sets up shop as a competitor in the same building as they are in.

I agree with J Balls that this turned into quite an informative thread, and I think I've picked up some great ideas for our marketing in the future! But the BEST thread IMHO was this one by miesque that correctly points out how vastly important customer service is. That's the top priority of our new management team at Yavapai Downs: Make every day customer appreciation day, and if we can succeed in doing that, we are bound to make leaps and bounds in attracting new customers and keeping the ones we have. We are also committed (along with our local HBPA horsemen group) to listen to the concerns of horse players and will do everything in our power to make positive changes in our industry. We are putting our "money where are mouth is" too, as we are looking forward to hosting and meeting with HANA members this weekend.......Thanks to all for a fantastic thread!:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Boomer

[kenwoodallpromos]

After the Haskell whipping racing took, maybe voting option #4 is a non-starter?

[ryesteve]

Now suddenly they're retired and have the time for new hobbies.No, they don't. Generally speaking, someone in their mid-60s already has hobbies that they've been waiting a long time to finally have the time for. I'm not saying to completely ignore this segment, I'm just pointing out the fact that marketing to this group generally does not change behaviors. This isn't where you're going to find a lot of new customers. You might bring back some old ones, but even with them, a lot of them probably quit for good reasons (hello, 25% takeout)

[castaway01]

Gee, I think I said some of these things 30 posts ago. :cool:

People always talk about racing's fan base dieing off as if everyone in a simulcast joint is 85 years old. There's a constant source of old people, and that's younger old people: people who may find themselves with more time on their hands than they're used to, and if they're lucky maybe some expendable resources, still active and acute enough to take on new mental challenges, and so on. Some of these newly empty-nested, maybe retired, maybe not quite retired but getting close, some of these may even buy a horse and become part of the racing community. I know it sounds far-fetched, but I see them every day and it is still happening.

It's OK to have Friday night hip-hops for the younger set to imprint the notion that it's not just a bunch of wino degenerates that go the races. And it's OK to have scantily clad young ladies offering free samples of Miller Low-Cal Low-Al Chill with a Touch of Pomegranate. But don't stake your future on them.

At age 53, I am moving into the demographic I'm talking about. Some in their early 50's are already there. I have witnessed it in over 20 years working in various racetrack management capacities, and I have witnessed it as an individual with a wife and child and mortgage and a car payment or two and so on and so on.

Think about where the Baby Boomers are on the timeline(and all the chances they've had to benefit from improved productivity, enhanced communications, an explosion of scientific research and discovery, etc.), and what Gens X-Y-Z are facing in the near future. Anybody wanna change his vote? :)

Okay, excellent post---sorry if you said it earlier but I was skimming the early part of the thread and jumped in after I saw Robert's post. What you said is what I was trying to say, but better stated. :)

I was trying to look at it from an unconventional point of view---of course everyone wants young people to use their products/services so they can build fans for life, but it's not as if that's worked for racing so far. I think the 53-year-old is exactly who could be persuaded into a racetrack, or betting online, or whatever---at least a track would have a shot at getting something for its tiny advertising budget.

[castaway01]

No, they don't. Generally speaking, someone in their mid-60s already has hobbies that they've been waiting a long time to finally have the time for. I'm not saying to completely ignore this segment, I'm just pointing out the fact that marketing to this group generally does not change behaviors. This isn't where you're going to find a lot of new customers. You might bring back some old ones, but even with them, a lot of them probably quit for good reasons (hello, 25% takeout)

You're not reading what I'm writing. As I wrote previously, most 55-year-old males have been in a racetrack in their lives. That's the key---they're NOT totally "new" customers you have to create from scratch. In advertising they are referred to as "lapsed" customers. I'm talking about people who went to the track from time to time when they were younger, and now they are retired and have more time and disposable income. I'm referring to the guy who was part of the 30,000 in attendance at Belmont, Garden State Park, or wherever 20 or 30 years ago and getting him back to paying attention to racing again.

Customer service needs to be improved, the atmosphere needs to be improved, and you need to cater to this crowd because they are the people you have the best chance to get---even if they bet online a bit and only come to the track once a month, they can at least be converted into casual fans.

[rastajenk]

Right on, bro'. :ThmbUp:

Most of those "lapsed customers" didn't lapse because of the takeout. They lapsed because of other higher life priorities.

[ryesteve]

You're not reading what I'm writing.I guess you didn't read what I wrote either. I said, you might bring back some old customers, except that most quit for a good reason. Unless you fix that reason, it's not going to be marketing that makes enough of them come back.

[ryesteve]

I'm referring to the guy who was part of the 30,000 in attendance at Belmont, Garden State Park, or wherever 20 or 30 years ago and getting him back to paying attention to racing again.You know, when I'd go to Belmont 30 years ago, I don't think there were 30,000 people there... sure, it was more crowded than it is nowadays, but the people who WERE there were a hell of a lot older than I was. 30 years later, I can tell you you'll have a REAL hard time reactivating THOSE customers :D

[fmolf]

You know, when I'd go to Belmont 30 years ago, I don't think there were 30,000 people there... sure, it was more crowded than it is nowadays, but the people who WERE there were a hell of a lot older than I was. 30 years later, I can tell you you'll have a REAL hard time reactivating THOSE customers :D
my dad and grandfather used to take me in the early 70's,i grew up in franklin square.I went all through my teen years on my own and my college years as well whenever i could.I did not go as much after marrying and raising three children all now in college.I have been increasing the amount of times i go to the track steadily since i have more time and discretionary income for my bankroll.I say get them while their young and you can make customers for life.I remember seeing concerts in the park bands like hot "f_____g" tuna, "soft white underbelly"(blue oyster cult)among others.I may not always have been a heavy player in the last 35 yrs but i always stayed interested in horse racing.

[ryesteve]

my dad and grandfather used to take me in the early 70's. I may not always have been a heavy player in the last 35 yrs but i always stayed interested in horse racing.I think this is in line with what I'm saying. You were imprinted early, same as I was. This is what needs to be happening now.

Think back... were there tons of other teens in the stands back then? I don't remember it that way, so I can't imagine there's a big pool of lapsed fans from which to draw.

[fmolf]

I think this is in line with what I'm saying. You were imprinted early, same as I was. This is what needs to be happening now.

Think back... were there tons of other teens in the stands back then? I don't remember it that way, so I can't imagine there's a big pool of lapsed fans from which to draw.i agree i do not remember that many either but there were lots of young people at the concerts...not many knew an exacta($5 at the time)from an exacto knife!.....i think racing might need to contract have fewer dates at the upper tier tracks ..concentrating on good breeding and less lower level slug races.

[badcompany]

I think this is in line with what I'm saying. You were imprinted early, same as I was. This is what needs to be happening now.

Think back... were there tons of other teens in the stands back then? I don't remember it that way, so I can't imagine there's a big pool of lapsed fans from which to draw.

There were tons of teens in Saratoga this past Saturday. I was there. You couldn't move.