Parlay Betting

[rolling]

Just looking for opinions on this bet and do most tracks take this bet.

[andymays]

Just looking for opinions on this bet and do most tracks take this bet.


In California (I don't know about other places) you can parlay up to 6 horses w-p-s!

I think it's the best bet at the track but you have to remember you can't stop it once it starts. I played a $200 win and place parlay at Santa Anita before the synthetic crap when I could bet with some confidence. First Horse wins at 19-1 and the second horse opens up at 5-2 and goes off at 13-1 and wins going away. Even though I've made bigger scores than that I call that 2 horse w-p parlay the best bet I ever made because it wasn't a gimmick bet!

[andymays]

Just looking for opinions on this bet and do most tracks take this bet.


If they don't take it you can do it on your own.

[ryesteve]

the second horse opens up at 5-2Of course he did... it was all your money in the pool :)

But to answer the original poster, I think it's a poor bet. From a money management standpoint, it'd be very hard to justify the bet size of the 2nd wager.

If you want this kind of action, bet cold doubles. Sure, you're restricted to consecutive races, but the return is almost always significantly better than a parlay, which further reinforces the reasons not to play parlays in the first place.

[andymays]

Of course he did... it was all your money in the pool :)

But to answer the original poster, I think it's a poor bet. From a money management standpoint, it'd be very hard to justify the bet size of the 2nd wager.

If you want this kind of action, bet cold doubles. Sure, you're restricted to consecutive races, but the return is almost always significantly better than a parlay, which further reinforces the reasons not to play parlays in the first place.


The difference between a parlay and a double or pick 3 or 4 is that you can select the Horses you really like instead of spreading in the races you don't like. If your best bets are in the 2nd Race and the 8th Race then do the parlay. If they are in consecutive races and the pools are OK then the double is probably better. You can do it from Track to Track if you parlay yourself.

When I would go to Tijuana and they were booking the bets I would usually do a 4 horse win and place round robin (series of 2 horse parlays)! They could all be at one Track or at 4 Tracks down there.

The other thing about a parly is no IRS signups. Sometimes it's quite a bit of fun to parlay 6 horses for $10 or $20. Some to place, some to show, maybe 1 to win. It adds up!

[takeout]

Steph Beattie went 3-for-3 at CT last Sunday, her owner Robert Cole going 2-for-2. I always think of parlays after the fact! :D “Coulda” made some little dough into some bigger dough though there are obvious limits due to the size of the pools (puddles?) at CT, not to mention the extra takeout because they don’t have the bet and it would have to be done manually.

Great score, andymays. If you had had to do it manually do you think you would have, after hitting for so much in the first leg? I’m thinking the being “locked in to it” part may be a good thing. I’ve cost myself in the past by not having the nerve to go through with it. My “bird in the hand” thinking took over and I “forgot” that it was supposed to be considered ONE bet.

[andymays]

Steph Beattie went 3-for-3 at CT last Sunday, her owner Robert Cole going 2-for-2. I always think of parlays after the fact! :D “Coulda” made some little dough into some bigger dough though there are obvious limits due to the size of the pools (puddles?) at CT, not to mention the extra takeout because they don’t have the bet and it would have to be done manually.

Great score, andymays. If you had had to do it manually do you think you would have, after hitting for so much in the first leg? I’m thinking the being “locked in to it” part may be a good thing. I’ve cost myself in the past by not having the nerve to go through with it. My “bird in the hand” thinking took over and I “forgot” that it was supposed to be considered ONE bet.


I would not have parlayed the whole thing. It would depend on how I was doing for the day but I know I would have put at least half of the money on the second Horse. But when you make a parlay you have to be prepared to get sick if you end up with a bunch of money going on a Horse that washes out or acts badly when he comes out on the track. But that's the same with pick 3's,4's,and 6's!

It's a funny story because I wasn't sure post 9-11 if they would make me sign something for the cash even though it wasn't a signup.

Takeout sometimes you get a feeling with a certain Trainer having a couple of interesting horses on the day or something like that. In my case both were gelded and going up in class with good trainers and good works since last race!

[takeout]

It's a funny story because I wasn't sure post 9-11 if they would make me sign something for the cash even though it wasn't a signup.Did they?

[andymays]

Did they?


I was pissed that I didn't cut it up into $20 increments when I made it but I expected each horse to go off at 5-1 so I wasn't worried about it.

I went to Santa Anita and decided to put the tickets in a machine and then make $50 4 horse tri boxes and then cancel them so I could break up the 50k plus into smaller amounts. At least that was the plan.

When I put the win parlay ticket into the machine it went nuts and started beeping and code 52 (or some number) came on the screen. The last thing I wanted was to draw attention to myself but I let out a loud oh F*** when it started beeping and that made it worse. I tried to get the ticket back but couldn't. The attendant came over and said he had never seen that code before and didn't know what was going on so he had to call the mutuel department downstairs. The mutuel guy came up and asked me what the ticket was worth and when I told him he said that the amount was the problem and I would have to give him the ticket so he could go downstairs and straighten it out. Then I let out another F me and I asked to see his ID to make sure he worked there and asked for his phone number so I could find him if he decided to take off with the ticket. I fully expected to have to sign something but when the guy came back (I called him at least 5 times) about a half hour later he gave me 50 or 54 $1000 vouchers and I didn't have to sign a thing. I put them 5 at a time in the machine and cashed them out into 5k voucher increments and put them in my pocket. After every couple of races I would cash one but I still went home with about 30k in vouchers (it's a problem to carry that much cash at one time). I used them and cashed them over the next few weeks.

[takeout]

Great stuff! :D

I would’ve thought that would’ve been a good plan too. Guess the machines have some amount programmed in there that trips them. Glad it all worked out. I can imagine how paranoid you must’ve been that the guy wouldn’t come back!

The reason I asked is that I once had a clerk that wanted me to sign for a ticket that wasn’t a signer. An honest mistake (she was new) but it just got me curious.

[andymays]

Great stuff! :D

I would’ve thought that would’ve been a good plan too. Guess the machines have some amount programmed in there that trips them. Glad it all worked out. I can imagine how paranoid you must’ve been that the guy wouldn’t come back!

The reason I asked is that I once had a clerk that wanted me to sign for a ticket that wasn’t a signer. An honest mistake (she was new) but it just got me curious.


I don't know this from my own experience but I've been told that post 9-11 in Vegas they make you sign for amounts in excess of 10k at the tables. I don't know about the Race Books. Maybe someone here knows.

[ryesteve]

The difference between a parlay and a double or pick 3 or 4 is that you can select the Horses you really like instead of spreading in the races you don't likeOr you could employ some discipline and not bet races you don't really like. On any given friday thru sunday this time of year, there are 30 to 40 tracks running... there's absolutely no excuse for betting into races you don't like.

And look at this way: if someone really believes they can show a profit with parlays, think how much higher their ROI would be if they restricted their play to doubles where they had similarly strong opinions.

[takeout]

if someone really believes they can show a profit with parlays, think how much higher their ROI would be if they restricted their play to doubles where they had similarly strong opinions.But isn’t one of the main reasons that doubles usually pay more because of only the one takeout? If a track offered a parlay bet wouldn’t that essentially be the same thing as betting a double?

[andymays]

If a guy likes two horses on a card that aren't in consecutive races how else would you bet them?

[ryesteve]

If a guy likes two horses on a card that aren't in consecutive races how else would you bet them?Straight, in the proper amounts.

Let me ask you this: would you knowingly bet a DD at a track that had a 32% takeout on them? That's pretty much what a parlay is.

[ryesteve]

If a track offered a parlay bet wouldn’t that essentially be the same thing as betting a double?No, because unless I'm mistaken, all they're doing is automating the process... they're not consolidating the takeout and giving you higher prices on the second bet.

[andymays]

No, because unless I'm mistaken, all they're doing is automating the process... they're not consolidating the takeout and giving you higher prices on the second bet.


There is not a separate pool for parlay bets like there is a separate double pool (I know ryesteve knows that). The first win parlay bet goes in the win pool and everything collected from that goes as a win bet in the second pool as if you did it yourself. The takeout applies on each win bet. With the parlay though you can't stop it.

[andymays]

Straight, in the proper amounts.

Let me ask you this: would you knowingly bet a DD at a track that had a 32% takeout on them? That's pretty much what a parlay is.


I'm not following you and I know you're better than me with the numbers.

A win parlay is two win bets right? If I had put $200 to win on each horse that day I would have collected much less that I did with a parlay. Each win bet had a 15% take right? By your logic any bet you made after your first bet of the day would have a higher take???? Are we mixing up the numbers with churn?

[ryesteve]

By your logic any bet you made after your first bet of the day would have a higher take???? No, because in the case of a parlay, the 2nd bet size is contingent on the first race payout, which is already being subjected to takeout. So your bet size has been decreased, and the payout you'd get on that if you win is being subjected to takeout once again.

I know it's a little fuzzy, but it's easier to wrap your head around if you just compare DD payouts with the corresponding parlay payout. You can see the difference between compounding the takeout (ie a parlay) and just getting hit with the takeout once, even when it's at a higher rate than a straight bet. When you see how much of a "bonus" you get betting the latter, parlays seem like a ripoff in comparison.

[andymays]

No, because in the case of a parlay, the 2nd bet size is contingent on the first race payout, which is already being subjected to takeout. So your bet size has been decreased, and the payout you'd get on that if you win is being subjected to takeout once again.

I know it's a little fuzzy, but it's easier to wrap your head around if you just compare DD payouts with the corresponding parlay payout. You can see the difference between compounding the takeout (ie a parlay) and just getting hit with the takeout once, even when it's at a higher rate than a straight bet. When you see how much of a "bonus" you get betting the latter, parlays seem like a ripoff in comparison.


I understand that the Daily Double usually will pay off higher than a win parlay pool permitting. But doesn't your argument hold true with anyone that goes to the track with x amount of dollars and runs those dollars up to x times 200? Adding up the takeout in consecutive bets doesn't hold water does it? In the case of the parlay I made sure it would have been better to put equal win bets on each Horse or play a double if they were in consecutive races but the reality was I had $400 to bet that day and the horses were in the second and sixth races to the best of my recollection so I made a $200 win and place parlay. I think I maxed out my bet in the best way possible no?

[ryesteve]

Adding up the takeout in consecutive bets doesn't hold water does it?Only in the case where the subsequent bet sizes are a function of takeout (as they are in the case of a parlay). Even if it's tough to see the logic, how else could you explain why a parlay of two 18% takeout bets will, on average, pay about 20% less than the identical DD bet with a 21% takeout?

[andymays]

Only in the case where the subsequent bet sizes are a function of takeout (as they are in the case of a parlay). Even if it's tough to see the logic, how else could you explain why a parlay of two 18% takeout bets will, on average, pay about 20% less than the identical DD bet with a 21% takeout?


I would think part of the reason is that a DD is an exotic bet that most people will "spread' in with some type of DD part wheel or 1 horse by 3 horses as an example.

But again, I agree that when your two best of the day are in consecutive races the DD is the way to go in most cases! The size of the DD pool and the size of the bet you make should you win will have an impact on the DD payout!

[fmolf]

I would think part of the reason is that a DD is an exotic bet that most people will "spread' in with some type of DD part wheel or 1 horse by 3 horses as an example.

But again, I agree that when your two best of the day are in consecutive races the DD is the way to go in most cases! The size of the DD pool and the size of the bet you make should you win will have an impact on the DD payout!
i think you are both partially right.Andy why would you bet a parlay? All that amounts to is betting early without seeing the odds.Why not wait ...show discipline and make sure you get an overlaid price on your second horse before you bet.If price is good then bet all your winnings on the horse.Doubles are better i believe because takeout is only once at a slightly higher rate and people do not bet the doubles as efficiently as in the win pools.Steve any time anyone makes two win bets on a card no matter how much he bets he is subject to the takeout twice,whether he wins or loses the first bet.

[andymays]

i think you are both partially right.Andy why would you bet a parlay? All that amounts to is betting early without seeing the odds.Why not wait ...show discipline and make sure you get an overlaid price on your second horse before you bet.If price is good then bet all your winnings on the horse.Doubles are better i believe because takeout is only once at a slightly higher rate and people do not bet the doubles as efficiently as in the win pools.Steve any time anyone makes two win bets on a card no matter how much he bets he is subject to the takeout twice,whether he wins or loses the first bet.


You have to read the thread from the beginning. Part of the reason I put in the $200 w-p parlay was that I couldn't be around the Track or the computer for most of the day and the ADW's don't let you bet a parlay although I could have called it in I guess but I didn't want to miss it. I also had been winning quite a bit on line and didn't want the winnings to show up in the statement should I win. I had to do it that way and I'm glad I did! To tell you the truth it was kind of a feeling I had that the parlay was the way to go that day. I did put in some rolling p3's and stuff on line in the morning and missed them all!

And as I said earlier I would not have put the whole $3900 on the second Horse. I would have probably put half on the second Horse if I did it myself!

[fmolf]

You have to read the thread from the beginning. Part of the reason I put in the $200 w-p parlay was that I couldn't be around the Track or the computer for most of the day and the ADW's don't let you bet a parlay although I could have called it in I guess but I didn't want to miss it. I also had been winning quite a bit on line and didn't want the winnings to show up in the statement should I win. I had to do it that way and I'm glad I did! To tell you the truth it was kind of a feeling I had that the parlay was the way to go that day. I did put in some rolling p3's and stuff on line in the morning and missed them all!

And as I said earlier I would not have put the whole $3900 on the second Horse. I would have probably put half on the second Horse if I did it myself!understood.....

[takeout]

No, because unless I'm mistaken, all they're doing is automating the process... they're not consolidating the takeout and giving you higher prices on the second bet.I was wrongly assuming that it was only one takeout.

[takeout]

The size of the DD pool and the size of the bet you make should you win will have an impact on the DD payout!I was thinking about that too. There probably isn’t as much money in the double pool as in the win pool. If it had been a double you could’ve hit it and conceivably ended up getting less money than with the parlay even though there would only be the one takeout. Depending on the DD pool size $200 may have been a gross overbet hooking up two horses with odds that long. Wouldn’t it have pulled the payout of that combination down quite a bit?

[Investorater]

My parlays consist of-Win-Place-Show-Place-expecting at least an even money return on all bets.