An Article Of Interest On Health Care Reform

[NJ Stinks]

It discusses the 4 main goals of health care reform and the concerns Blue Dog Democrats have with achieving those goals.
__________________________________________________ ___

July 27, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
An Incoherent Truth

By PAUL KRUGMAN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/paulkrugman/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Right now the fate of health care reform seems to rest in the hands of relatively conservative Democrats — mainly members of the Blue Dog Coalition, created in 1995. And you might be tempted to say that President Obama needs to give those Democrats what they want.

But he can’t — because the Blue Dogs aren’t making sense.

To grasp the problem, you need to understand the outline of the proposed reform (all of the Democratic plans on the table agree on the essentials.)

Reform, if it happens, will rest on four main pillars: regulation, mandates, subsidies and competition.

The rest of the article at the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/opinion/27krugman.html?pagewanted=print

[ArlJim78]

Krugman is a stooge.

[boxcar]

It discusses the 4 main goals of health care reform and the concerns Blue Dog Democrats have with achieving those goals.
__________________________________________________ ___

July 27, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
An Incoherent Truth

By PAUL KRUGMAN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/paulkrugman/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Right now the fate of health care reform seems to rest in the hands of relatively conservative Democrats — mainly members of the Blue Dog Coalition, created in 1995. And you might be tempted to say that President Obama needs to give those Democrats what they want.

But he can’t — because the Blue Dogs aren’t making sense.

To grasp the problem, you need to understand the outline of the proposed reform (all of the Democratic plans on the table agree on the essentials.)

Reform, if it happens, will rest on four main pillars: regulation, mandates, subsidies and competition.

The rest of the article at the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/opinion/27krugman.html?pagewanted=print

"Mandates" as in requirements? "Regulation" as to who has the final word in people's health care issues? Wow. I'm so grateful for Nanny Gov relieving me of the stresses of dealing with my own life issues. How have I ever survived all these years before the Nanny State? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[andymays]

Newt’s six-point health-care reform

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/27/newts-six-point-health-care-reform/

Excerpt:

1. Stop Paying the Crooks. First, we must dramatically reduce healthcare fraud within our current healthcare system. Outright fraud — criminal activity — accounts for as much as 10 percent of all healthcare spending. That is more than $200 billion every year. Medicare alone could account for as much as $40 billion a year. (Read about our latest CHT Press book, Stop Paying the Crooks, edited by Jim Frogue.)

[Tom]

Libs....care to comment?

[NJ Stinks]

Libs....care to comment?

So far I read the 6 points but nothing below them. Since I'm heading for the gym, I'll leave this comment. Excluding Andymays' response, I guess I should have called this thread:

An Article Of Interest For Those Interested In Health Care Reform

[46zilzal]

From The Guardian by Paul Harris:
It was July 2007 and Potter, a senior executive at giant US healthcare firm Cigna, was visiting relatives in the poverty-ridden mountain districts of northeast Tennessee. He saw an advert in a local paper for a touring free medical clinic at a fairground just across the state border in Wise County, Virginia.

Potter, who had worked at Cigna for 15 years, decided to check it out. What he saw appalled him. Hundreds of desperate people, most without any medical insurance, descended on the clinic from out of the hills. People queued in long lines to have the most basic medical procedures carried out free of charge. Some had driven more than 200 miles from Georgia. Many were treated in the open air. Potter took pictures of patients lying on trolleys on rain-soaked pavements.

For Potter it was a dreadful realisation that healthcare in America had failed millions of poor, sick people and that he, and the industry he worked for, did not care about the human cost of their relentless search for profits. "It was over-powering. It was just more than I could possibly have imagined could be happening in America," he told the Observer

Potter resigned shortly afterwards. Last month he testified in Congress, becoming one of the few industry executives to admit that what its critics say is true: healthcare insurance firms push up costs, buy politicians and refuse to pay out when many patients actually get sick. In chilling words he told a Senate committee: "I worked as a senior executive at health insurance companies and I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick: all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors."

[boxcar]

For Potter it was a dreadful realisation that healthcare in America had failed millions of poor, sick people and that he, and the industry he worked for, did not care about the human cost of their relentless search for profits. "It was over-powering. It was just more than I could possibly have imagined could be happening in America," he told the Observer

Potter needs to stick around if the government takes over the industry. Then he'll come to another "dreadful realisation": The state will only be interested in pursuing its own "relentless search" for costs slashing measures, and that this will have an horrendous effect upon the quality of all that great "free" care.

Boxcar

[Black Ruby]

I have low premium, high deductible health insurance and an HSA along with it. Earlier this year, my premium went up $17 month, for no particular reason. I haven't had any claims and have annual check-ups and blood tests, those haven't cost Anthem anything. And two afternoons I'm an instructor at a gym, showing people how to use resistance equipment and cardiovascular machines. I workout while I'm there, plus another day or two per week at home, so I'm in much better than average condition. My insurance started off a little higher than normal when I switched to low premium, because they use BMI (body mass index) as their main factor, and being muscular mine's higher than average. On July 1, I got a letter from Anthem that said my premium (along with their other customers') is increasing by 25%. The only explanation they gave is that medical technology is costing them more.

I have to believe that (a) the bad economy has Anthem trying to up their bottom line; and/or (b) the CEO wants a new yacht or has an expensive new mistress.

Health insurance in this country is way out of control.

[Tom]

They are dying in Canada.

They are flocking here to get the care you people deny them.

Many of our cost are driven up the tens of millions of non-citizens who are getting FREE health care here, many at our emergency rooms for day to day care. How many non citizens does Canada serve for free?

WE do not turn people away, nor do we make them wait, like you guys do.
You guts told a kid he could get care if he failed to PROMISE never to drink again. An Alcoholic cannot promise that. He died. A lady took out a mortgage on here house and came here to get the treatments you guys were making her wait form months to get. She was told had she would have died had she waited.

[Tom]

The only explanation they gave is that medical technology is costing them more.

I have to believe that (a) the bad economy has Anthem trying to up their bottom line; and/or (b) the CEO wants a new yacht or has an expensive new mistress.

Hospitals are uping their prices to cover all the freebies they are forced give out. The insurance companies have to pay for that. Someone has to pay for all that free care..guess who?

Your assumptions make little sense compare to their explanation. Did you aske them for details?

[46zilzal]

having NEVER worked in health care, your understanding of it is as limited as they come.

[Tom]

BS....it is a fact. You do not have to be a health care professional to read.
Take my post, Mr Wizard, and line by line, point out where I am wrong. Can you do it?

[Black Ruby]

Well, hospitals may well have been "uping" their prices, but it hasn't been by the 43% that the insurance company raised my rate in less than 18 months.

I've called, and I'm calling again this afternoon. First time I got a drone and couldn't get to a supervisor in the time that I had. When I get home today, I'll wait 'em out.

[Tom]

having NEVER worked in health care, your understanding of it is as limited as they come.

http://www.lewin.com/content/publications/Testimony_April_29,_2009.pdf

Page 11, Cost-shifting, second paragraph.

[Tom]

Well, hospitals may well have been "uping" their prices, but it hasn't been by the 43% that the insurance company raised my rate in less than 18 months.

I've called, and I'm calling again this afternoon. First time I got a drone and couldn't get to a supervisor in the time that I had. When I get home today, I'll wait 'em out.

Be interesting to hear their reply, assuming you get one. Here's my take on it - unemployment is higher than it has been since the last time we had a democrat in the WH ( sorry, couldn't resist! :rolleyes:).
The number of people paying into insurance is dropping off, but the number using it is not, at least nowhere near the same rate. Therefore, the cost is re-divided among those still paying.

[Black Ruby]

Unemployment is about 10%, and not all those people have lost their insurance yet. Underemployment is up, too, so some of those people have lost their insurance. A few docs and dentists I know have been telling me the same story.....fewer people are coming in to see them, because they can't afford the co-pay or they are just putting off med stuff because they're afraid in this economy. So I could see maybe a 15-18% increase in rates, but not 43.5%. I think the insurance companies are trying to raise our rates to pay for their bad judgement in investments over the last couple years.

[Tom]

A lot of people are not counted in the 10% that are out of work. But I agree, 43% is more than that. Prices are probably going up....that will add some.
Maybe your health care provider is being taxed heavily and is passing it on to you.;)

[Pell Mell]

From The Guardian by Paul Harris:
It was July 2007 and Potter, a senior executive at giant US healthcare firm Cigna, was visiting relatives in the poverty-ridden mountain districts of northeast Tennessee. He saw an advert in a local paper for a touring free medical clinic at a fairground just across the state border in Wise County, Virginia.

Potter, who had worked at Cigna for 15 years, decided to check it out. What he saw appalled him. Hundreds of desperate people, most without any medical insurance, descended on the clinic from out of the hills. People queued in long lines to have the most basic medical procedures carried out free of charge. Some had driven more than 200 miles from Georgia. Many were treated in the open air. Potter took pictures of patients lying on trolleys on rain-soaked pavements.

For Potter it was a dreadful realisation that healthcare in America had failed millions of poor, sick people and that he, and the industry he worked for, did not care about the human cost of their relentless search for profits. "It was over-powering. It was just more than I could possibly have imagined could be happening in America," he told the Observer

Potter resigned shortly afterwards. Last month he testified in Congress, becoming one of the few industry executives to admit that what its critics say is true: healthcare insurance firms push up costs, buy politicians and refuse to pay out when many patients actually get sick. In chilling words he told a Senate committee: "I worked as a senior executive at health insurance companies and I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick: all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors."

Living in E. TN, this I can attest to. There was a free clinic last week and the people were there the night before sleeping in line. There are many mountain folk that don't have medicare because they never paid into it having fended for themselves all their life. As far as knowing what's available, so many are illiterate and don't have a clue. It's a sad state of affairs.
But, I know immigrants that have come to this country and get right on SSI and know every angle there is to get all kinds of benefits.
I'm not for this health bill in congress now but I really think there should be some help for our poor, elderly U.S. CITIZENS.

[ArlJim78]

there is no problem that a government solution won't make worse.

[ddog]

Newt’s six-point health-care reform

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/27/newts-six-point-health-care-reform/

Excerpt:

1. Stop Paying the Crooks. First, we must dramatically reduce healthcare fraud within our current healthcare system. Outright fraud — criminal activity — accounts for as much as 10 percent of all healthcare spending. That is more than $200 billion every year. Medicare alone could account for as much as $40 billion a year. (Read about our latest CHT Press book, Stop Paying the Crooks, edited by Jim Frogue.)


I like Newt on most things, but this deal is a warmed over bama proposal.

Fraud -- everyone points this out , but in the history I have seen it never comes about. Plus, if you wish to reign in the fraud then how much extra cost do you incur to catch the fraudsters? Pie in the sky.

Electronic records - again pie in the sky - lots of people are against it , they feel that once it goes online it's free game to everyone. some validity to that.
Plus, most health concerns are doing this anyway, just as regular biz does as it shaves costs and manpower thus helps their bottom line. bama is nuts on this as well, you will not save much if anything on this.

Best practices and what has proven to work --- that's exactly what the b'cars and others here DON'T WANT TO SEE as what is cost effective and/or only proven to have effect , doesn't matter to them, they want what THEY want and they want it NOW!

Plus, for that to work , someone (gvt) has to decide what those "bests" are and then ENFORCE it!!!!!


It sounds like the something for nothing wishes that are so often pushed.

The fact is that now people are living longer and some people are LIVing now that never did before.

The advances to accomplish this COST MONEY , lots of it, you can pay for it upfront or hide it behind whatever device you want to create, but it isn't going to be free or cheap or efficient.

[ddog]

there is no problem that a government solution won't make worse.
but for gvt involvement there is little doubt you would be dead by now.

free market in health ends up killing tons of people, since there are those who will exploit for only profit.

[ArlJim78]

but for gvt involvement there is little doubt you would be dead by now.

free market in health ends up killing tons of people, since there are those who will exploit for only profit.
complete nonsense.

[ddog]

complete nonsense.



You are full of it that's for sure.

You really think you want to take anything sent into this country from China or some other backwater just because it has a pretty label on the outside.

You really have to be isolated or delusional in the extreme to not easily recall instances of exactly what I described.

But, that's par for you.

[ArlJim78]

You are full of it that's for sure.

You really think you want to take anything sent into this country from China or some other backwater just because it has a pretty label on the outside.

You really have to be isolated or delusional in the extreme to not easily recall instances of exactly what I described.

But, that's par for you.
so because I trust the private sector with my health care more than the government, in your mind this has something to do with me wanting to take something from China because it has a pretty label?

and you call me delusional? you're posts are unintelligible gibberish.

[ddog]

so because I trust the private sector with my health care more than the government, in your mind this has something to do with me wanting to take something from China because it has a pretty label?

and you call me delusional? you're posts are unintelligible gibberish.


You familiar with the old game Twister, you should be.

I am trying to dumb it down for you but it's impossible.

You see , YOU may not have a choice as to wanting it or not without someone informing you of the dangers. That someone does it not to be nice to you , but because they have to and normally kicking and screaming all the way.

[Black Ruby]

I called Anthem about the 25% rate increase in premium (43% over 18mo) and first talked with another drone. When I asked why, her answer was basically "because we can". Specifically she said "well, your policy renewal date was July 1, and your policy states that we can review and adjust your premium". So I talked with someone else and got a little better answer. That was "the plan you are in is closed, it's no longer offered. So there are no younger people coming into the pool and keeping the premiums down." So I asked about other plans, turns out that the plan that has replaced the one I'm in, with only a minor change or two, will increase my deductible $300 per year, but my premium will be $600/yr less.

So basically it's smoke and mirrors by the insurance industry. If 33% of the people call and change plans and the others' don't, they're still way ahead.

I'm looking for Anthem's most recent financial statements and executive compensation.

[ArlJim78]

You familiar with the old game Twister, you should be.
that's what I thought. never a response, just slide off in yet another direction after you drop some vacuous comment that can't be backed up.
"free market kills tons of people"

[ArlJim78]

I am trying to dumb it down for you but it's impossible.


nice try, its dumb because that is all you're capable of. I have pressed you time again to say something intelligent, you never took me up on the challenge, never replied, only gibberish rants about people that don't get it because they have their heads in the sand.

maybe its all clear in your head, that should concern you though because from out here it's a mess.

[Warren Henry]

I called Anthem about the 25% rate increase in premium (43% over 18mo) ------

So I talked with someone else and got a little better answer. That was "the plan you are in is closed, it's no longer offered. So there are no younger people coming into the pool and keeping the premiums down."

So I asked about other plans, turns out that the plan that has replaced the one I'm in, with only a minor change or two, will increase my deductible $300 per year, but my premium will be $600/yr less.



Normally, when my insurance premium goes up, the company tells me of ways to reduce my costs. In your case, you can get a $600 per year savings in out of pocket expense if you stay well. If you need service, you will still be ahead $300 because you only had to lay out an extra $300 in dedutctible. Sounds like a no brainer.

In case you haven't noticed, the cost of most everything has gone up over the last 18 months. My wife comes home from the store every week complaining about how much the prices have increased in just a week.

If you really want to lower your health insurance expense, get a really high deductible. If you are willing to pay for the normal bumps and scrapes and just have them kick in if you have something serious, you can drop the premium WAY down.

There is a difference between health insurance and prepaid health care. If you have a low deductible and high premiums, you are actually buying prepaid health care. Going for the high deductible with lower premiums means that you will pay for your own routine healthcare, but will have help in the event of a catastrophic medical problem.

[Sailwolf]

They are dying in Canada.

They are flocking here to get the care you people deny them.

Many of our cost are driven up the tens of millions of non-citizens who are getting FREE health care here, many at our emergency rooms for day to day care. How many non citizens does Canada serve for free?

WE do not turn people away, nor do we make them wait, like you guys do.
You guts told a kid he could get care if he failed to PROMISE never to drink again. An Alcoholic cannot promise that. He died. A lady took out a mortgage on here house and came here to get the treatments you guys were making her wait form months to get. She was told had she would have died had she waited.


In the los angeles area, people have to wait for 6-7 hours for health care


If you cannot pay the hospitals will try to bankrupt you. The care is not free.

[boxcar]

In the los angeles area, people have to wait for 6-7 hours for health care


If you cannot pay the hospitals will try to bankrupt you. The care is not free.

Not too shabby at all when you consider those long waits are due largely to all the illegals getting leeching off the U.S. for their freebie care. And that wait time still has Canada beat to smithereens.

Boxcar

[Tom]

What he said.

[Black Ruby]

Normally, when my insurance premium goes up, the company tells me of ways to reduce my costs. In your case, you can get a $600 per year savings in out of pocket expense if you stay well. If you need service, you will still be ahead $300 because you only had to lay out an extra $300 in dedutctible. Sounds like a no brainer.

In case you haven't noticed, the cost of most everything has gone up over the last 18 months. My wife comes home from the store every week complaining about how much the prices have increased in just a week.

If you really want to lower your health insurance expense, get a really high deductible. If you are willing to pay for the normal bumps and scrapes and just have them kick in if you have something serious, you can drop the premium WAY down.

There is a difference between health insurance and prepaid health care. If you have a low deductible and high premiums, you are actually buying prepaid health care. Going for the high deductible with lower premiums means that you will pay for your own routine healthcare, but will have help in the event of a catastrophic medical problem.

The cost of most everything hasn't increased at the rate of my insurance premium, which, as I said, is low premium/high deductible. Basically, it turns out that the 'shoance company is closing a program so that no young people can get in and keep the premiums at a reasonable rate. Then they start a new plan, differing in deductible by only $300 per year, and very minor differences in a couple things that apply 100% to the deductible. In 3-4 years, they'll close this plan, raise the premiums and hope that people pay the new rate rather than going to the trouble of calling. It's a shell game.