Boycott Saratoga Exotics

[Space Monkey]

First of all, I love NY racing, but NYRA's takeout structure on exotics is obscene.
18.5% on DD and EX is fine, but the 26% on TRI'S, SUPER'S, PIK 3'S AND 4'S is unacceptable. Send a message to NYRA and don't bet these exotics. Tell NYRA to follow the lead in KY (CD and KEE) and CAL where the takeout across the board on exotics is 19 & 20%.

I'm not giving away an extra 6-7% on those bets anymore!!!

Churchill and Keeneland are closed now so while I'll bet my doubles and ex's at the Spa, I'll be looking to DelMar for all exotics. What this will mean for NYRA is that this player will be betting less at Saratoga than I ever have before. Multiply that by thousands, contact them about this, post on boards, maybe, along with H.A.N.A., we can influence change.

[andymays]

First of all, I love NY racing, but NYRA's takeout structure on exotics is obscene.
18.5% on DD and EX is fine, but the 26% on TRI'S, SUPER'S, PIK 3'S AND 4'S is unacceptable. Send a message to NYRA and don't bet these exotics. Tell NYRA to follow the lead in KY (CD and KEE) and CAL where the takeout across the board on exotics is 19 & 20%.

I'm not giving away an extra 6-7% on those bets anymore!!!

Churchill and Keeneland are closed now so while I'll bet my doubles and ex's at the Spa, I'll be looking to DelMar for all exotics. What this will mean for NYRA is that this player will be betting less at Saratoga than I ever have before. Multiply that by thousands, contact them about this, post on boards, maybe, along with H.A.N.A., we can influence change.


Just wondering and this is a stretch of course but aren't there laws on the books in every State about gouging the public?

Maybe someone ought to sue over something like this (how about HANA) and use the gouging laws to Horseplayers advantage. It may not work but maybe it will bring some attention to the problem!

I know every journalist who covers Horse Racing would cover a lawsuit like this! Just an idea.

It might be a frivolous lawsuit but isn't a 26% take frivolous? Talk about gouging the public!

[Grits]

SM, why not load up on your exacta and dd amounts, while betting more of them. And of course too, there's always flat win betting.;)

[Bruddah]

First of all, I love NY racing, but NYRA's takeout structure on exotics is obscene.
18.5% on DD and EX is fine, but the 26% on TRI'S, SUPER'S, PIK 3'S AND 4'S is unacceptable. Send a message to NYRA and don't bet these exotics. Tell NYRA to follow the lead in KY (CD and KEE) and CAL where the takeout across the board on exotics is 19 & 20%.

I'm not giving away an extra 6-7% on those bets anymore!!!

Churchill and Keeneland are closed now so while I'll bet my doubles and ex's at the Spa, I'll be looking to DelMar for all exotics. What this will mean for NYRA is that this player will be betting less at Saratoga than I ever have before. Multiply that by thousands, contact them about this, post on boards, maybe, along with H.A.N.A., we can influence change.

If you will notice my avatar, I have been espousing these principles since 1999. Well before posting on this board. I tried unsuccessfully twice to unify bettors into a coalition. Here we are 10 years later and HANA has been trying for a year or so and it still hasn't happened. In the mean while, Horse racing contines to lose ground. Bettors continue to slip away from the sport and no knew players are filling the seats.

The Bettors are the solution and the problem at the same time. If they were to act in a unified way and get Horse Racing Management to notice and address their complaints, they could resolve a lot of issues. However, the knowledgable Bettors, for the most part, are action junkies. If they have an opinion on the the race, even they are betting it despite the take out. This sends a message to Racing management to continue with the current policies because the Bettors are gambling junkies not to be respected or to be paid any notice. :bang:

[andymays]

If you will notice my avatar, I have been espousing these principles since 1999. Well before posting on this board. I tried unsuccessfully twice to unify bettors into a coalition. Here we are 10 years later and HANA has been trying for a year or so and it still hasn't happened. In the mean while, Horse racing contines to lose ground. Bettors continue to slip away from the sport and no knew players are filling the seats.

The Bettors are the solution and the problem at the same time. If they were to act in a unified way and get Horse Racing Management to notice and address their complaints, they could resolve a lot of issues. However, the knowledgable Bettors, for the most part, are action junkies. If they have an opinion on the the race, even they are betting it despite the take out. This sends a message to Racing management to continue with the current policies because the Bettors are gambling junkies not to be respected or to be paid any notice. :bang:


Class Action Lawsuit coordinated by HANA against Race Tracks that gouge the public. Why not? It brings national attention to the problem!

[miesque]

Since this thread bring up the in takeout rates I would like to take this opportunity to bring up the HANA Track Rating spreadsheet. I strongly recommend those who have not already done so (most especially those who have no idea what the takeout rates are on the tracks they wager on) to take the time to not only click on the link but also click on the header of each column which will sort the takeout rates for the wagers in question from lowest to highest (WPS, Exacta, Trifecta, Superfecta, etc). One of the key purposes of the spreadsheet is for it to be used as a player resource and also help educate horseplayers about takeout because education really is an first important step of many in attempting to achieve positive change.

http://www.horseplayersassociation.org/hanatrackratingsbytrackname.html


Just wondering and this is a stretch of course but aren't there laws on the books in every State about gouging the public?

Maybe someone ought to sue over something like this (how about HANA) and use the gouging laws to Horseplayers advantage. It may not work but maybe it will bring some attention to the problem!

I know every journalist who covers Horse Racing would cover a lawsuit like this! Just an idea.

It might be a frivolous lawsuit but isn't a 26% take frivolous? Talk about gouging the public!

As a general rule, suing the government is never that great an idea (which is what you are proposing) unless of course you have no better use for the tens of millions of dollars that happen to be sitting in your pockets, especially considering if the goal was to reduce taxes (which it is in this case) you might actually get results spreading a few million throughout the legislature in question. But to get back to the heart of the matter, any sort of takeout change which requires more then just the track making a decision needs to first and foremost be supported by the track(s) in that jurisdiction, as well as the state racing commission in question followed by the horsemen's groups, in that order of importance because if the track doesn't want it. If you actually can get all three to agree you have a good chance of success. If you get two out of three you might get something accomplished as long as one of those parties agreeing is the track(s).

[garyoz]

Class Action Lawsuit coordinated by HANA against Race Tracks that gouge the public. Why not? It brings national attention to the problem!


Yeah, nothing else important going on in this country. Besides, horseplayers are such a strong public interest group, the politicians will jump right to attention to pass legislation....

The State of New York is not going to be lowering take-out. They have a few other problems right now--chief among them is a budget deficit.

[BombsAway Bob]

Reminds me of "Buggin'Out" running thru the streets of Bed-Stuy, trying to gather support for Boycotting Sal's Famous Pizzaria in "Do The Right Thing". We All know how well that turned out!
http://chubbyafro.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dotherightthingsalbuggin.jpg?w=600&h=365

[Space Monkey]

GRITS, I'm not going to "load up" on my SAR ex and dd's. I'm going to just bet the same. What I am going to do is spread out and bet more tracks. The only way to send a message is to bet less at the high takeout tracks. I'm not a big win bettor, but i will look more to that now. I only bet to win on horses I have a strong opinion on that are 6-1 or so or better.

I understand the comments on the lack of respect we get from the pols and the problems in the country. But it doesn't mean we should give up. NY racing is going thru a lot of changes right now, although I'm not up on recent developments. If they want more handle, they can make changes. I think if they adopt a takeout similar to CD's and really publicize it, they will see an increase.

Didn't Ellis Park run a low takeout promotion on 1 form of exotic betting last year? Even though they are supposed to close, I believe that particular effort was very successful. Are you listening NYRA?

[Imriledup]

I love the idea of HANA being aggressive and filing class action lawsuits here and there, but the last thing that HANA needs to do is become the PETA of horse players. Horseplayers biggest problem is getting no respect and if HANA isn't respected that hurts any efforts they might have going forward.

As far as NYRA's extreme takeouts you just have to not play into their pools. If NYRA isn't going to lose customers and handle because of these takeouts, than NYRA did a great job to raise them. Horseplayers need to accept responsibility for betting these races. Even though players are in competition with one another in the betting pools, they need to stick together and not play these places. Every dollar you wager into a high takeout track is hurting your fellow player who doesn't want to have to bet into that.

Love your fellow horseplayer and just say no to NYRA.

[andymays]

I love the idea of HANA being aggressive and filing class action lawsuits here and there, but the last thing that HANA needs to do is become the PETA of horse players. Horseplayers biggest problem is getting no respect and if HANA isn't respected that hurts any efforts they might have going forward.

As far as NYRA's extreme takeouts you just have to not play into their pools. If NYRA isn't going to lose customers and handle because of these takeouts, than NYRA did a great job to raise them. Horseplayers need to accept responsibility for betting these races. Even though players are in competition with one another in the betting pools, they need to stick together and not play these places. Every dollar you wager into a high takeout track is hurting your fellow player who doesn't want to have to bet into that.

Love your fellow horseplayer and just say no to NYRA.


We can talk about abstinece but it's like the birth control debate. Abstinece isn't practical for most Horseplayers and the Race Tracks know it! :)

[Space Monkey]

Horseplayers need to accept responsibility for betting these races. Even though players are in competition with one another in the betting pools, they need to stick together and not play these places. Every dollar you wager into a high takeout track is hurting your fellow player who doesn't want to have to bet into that.


Excellent comment, riled up. But just boycott the high takeout bets. You don't have to kick NYRA totally to the curb.
Andy, i can find plenty of low takeout action all over the country. No horse player NEEDS to bet a particular bet at a particular track. Its about educating the player and being an activist. I belong to HANA, and I encourage everybody else to join too. Its free, HANA's non-profit, but you can donate to help their cause if you want. What they do DOES cost $.

[ryesteve]

Excellent comment, riled up. But just boycott the high takeout bets. You don't have to kick NYRA totally to the curb.
What incentive does NYRA have to change things if their total handle doesn't go down? Like, if you wanted to protest the high price of Big Macs, which is going to make McDonald's do something? If you keep going to McDonald's and buy double quarter-pounders instead, or if you start going to Burger King to buy Whoppers?

[andymays]

Excellent comment, riled up. But just boycott the high takeout bets. You don't have to kick NYRA totally to the curb.
Andy, i can find plenty of low takeout action all over the country. No horse player NEEDS to bet a particular bet at a particular track. Its about educating the player and being an activist. I belong to HANA, and I encourage everybody else to join too. Its free, HANA's non-profit, but you can donate to help their cause if you want. What they do DOES cost $.


I support HANA as well but I think everyone has to realize that most Horseplayers play for the action and don't have the discipline or willpower to just not play their favorite tracks (like Saratoga). There are many people on this board who are disciplined players, but players like yourself are few and far between.

In a perfect world all this makes sense but we are not in a perfect world or in a laboratory where the numbers and the theory translate to a better deal for the Horseplayer!

[miesque]

Excellent comment, riled up. But just boycott the high takeout bets. You don't have to kick NYRA totally to the curb.
Andy, i can find plenty of low takeout action all over the country. No horse player NEEDS to bet a particular bet at a particular track. Its about educating the player and being an activist. I belong to HANA, and I encourage everybody else to join too. Its free, HANA's non-profit, but you can donate to help their cause if you want. What they do DOES cost $.

That is a really good point and one that bears repeating. If horseplayers really care about getting takeout reduced they need to change to adjust their play accordingly and shift money to the tracks with lower takeouts in the category of bets that they play the most. If 50% of players shifted even 75% of their play accordingly it would be noticeable. And its not a selfless act either because you will be getting higher return overtime by making these adjustments.

[miesque]

I support HANA as well but I think everyone has to realize that most Horseplayers play for the action and don't have the discipline or willpower to just not play their favorite tracks (like Saratoga). There are many people on this board who are disciplined players, but players like yourself are few and far between.

In a perfect world all this makes sense but we are not in a perfect world or in a laboratory where the numbers and the theory translate to a better deal for the Horseplayer!

You just made an excellent argument for management to not do a damn thing to help horseplayers and in fact raise takeout. In fact its stupid of a business to not raise prices if it won't change the behavior of their customers and provide the incentive for their customers to go down the street to their competitor instead.

So to summarize, you think the only way to save horseplayers from themselves is to pursue a frivolous idea like a class action lawsuit which will make the powers that be take horseplayers less seriously?

[miesque]

By the way, if you are one of the horseplayers that does not know the specific takeout rate for each bet they are placing, someone needs to smack you in the head with a rolled up DRF every time you bet until you make the effort to become informed.

[andymays]

You just made an excellent argument for management to not do a damn thing to help horseplayers and in fact raise takeout. In fact its stupid of a business to not raise prices if it won't change the behavior of their customers and provide the incentive for their customers to go down the street to their competitor instead.

So to summarize, you think the only way to save horseplayers from themselves is to pursue a frivolous idea like a class action lawsuit which will make the powers that be take horseplayers less seriously?


I didn't make the argument. The argument has already been made and implemented by the Tracks. The question is what are you going to do about it?

[andymays]

By the way, if you are one of the horseplayers that does not know the specific takeout rate for each bet they are placing, someone needs to smack you in the head with a rolled up DRF every time you bet until you make the effort to become informed.


Of course I know the take. Are you asking me to boycott the Saratoga exotics? If so put it out as an official stance by HANA and mobilize the troops! Let's see what happens.

[miesque]

Of course I know the take. Are you asking me to boycott the Saratoga exotics? If so put it out as an official stance by HANA and mobilize the troops! Let's see what happens.

That is actually not the point I was making. If someone who is betting a Trifecta at Saratoga and can tell me that they know that wager has a 26% takeout rate and that only Hastings, Calder, Fort Erie, Assinoibia, Philly Park and Penn National have a higher trifecta takeout rate then that its one thing. If they don't have a clue and think its the exact takeout as a trifecta bet they made at Keeneland (which is 19%), then I have a problem with that.

[andymays]

That is actually not the point I was making. If someone who is betting a Trifecta at Saratoga and can tell me that they know that wager has a 26% takeout rate and that only Hastings, Calder, Fort Erie, Assinoibia, Philly Park and Penn National have a higher trifecta takeout rate then that its one thing. If they don't have a clue and think its the exact takeout as a trifecta bet they made at Keeneland (which is 19%), then I have a problem with that.

You are sort of making my point in the other thread as well. Most Horseplayers don't know and don't care. If they did know about the take then they might care. The Class Action and the publicity it would get might be one way to inform them!

[miesque]

You are sort of making my point in the other thread as well. Most Horseplayers don't know and don't care. If they did know about the take then they might care. The Class Action and the publicity it would get might be one way to inform them!

Personally I think there are much more effective ways to educate horseplayers then undertaking a frivolous class action lawsuit and just burning money. :bang:

One of the main purpose of HANA releasing the Track Ranking was to highlight elements like takeout and to educate those horseplayers unaware of such difference. The process of awareness and education followed by changes in behavior and rule changes is a gradual one (think of how long its taken to get to where we are now with public smoking restrictions). Now if someone would be willing to underwrite a series of full page takeout awareness ads in horseplayer publications and commercials on HRTV and TVG, that would be far more effective use of resources and make some waves then filing a class action lawsuit.

[andymays]

Personally I think there are much more effective ways to educate horseplayers then undertaking a frivolous class action lawsuit and just burning money. :bang:

One of the main purpose of HANA releasing the Track Ranking was to highlight elements like takeout and to educate those horseplayers unaware of such difference. The process of awareness and education followed by changes in behavior and rule changes is a gradual one (think of how long its taken to get to where we are now with public smoking restrictions). Now if someone would be willing to underwrite a series of full page takeout awareness ads in horseplayer publications and commercials on HRTV and TVG, that would be far more effective use of resources and make some waves then filing a class action lawsuit.


What are the "effective ways"? :bang:

[miesque]

What are the "effective ways"? :bang:

Reread the my last sentence of my post.

[andymays]

Reread the my last sentence of my post.


Where is the money for the ads? Why hasn't it been done?

I agree with you that might work but what I'm talking about gets headlines.

My point is that when you're in a fight you have to throw many punches and some connect and some don't. If you keep your hands in your pockets you can't win!

[miesque]

Where is the money for the ads? Why hasn't it been done?

I agree with you that might work but what I'm talking about gets headlines.

Well it hasn't been done because we don't even remotely have the requisite funds necessary for an advertising blitzkrieg. This is why I used the magic words, "if someone was willing to underwrite" in the statement I made. Decent mass market advertising is not cheap.

[andymays]

Well it hasn't been done because we don't even remotely have the requisite funds necessary for an advertising blitzkrieg. This is why I used the magic words, "if someone was willing to underwrite" in the statement I made. Decent mass market advertising is not cheap.

I hope you're not asking me for money. Between the high takeout and the synthetic surfaces I barely keep my head above water. :D

[jonnielu]

Of course I know the take. Are you asking me to boycott the Saratoga exotics? If so put it out as an official stance by HANA and mobilize the troops! Let's see what happens.

You need to boycott Saratoga completely to have any effect.

jdl

[andymays]

You need to boycott Saratoga completely to have any effect.

jdl


It is 100% guaranteed that your solution would work. There's no doubt about it. But is it practical or realistic?

[miesque]

[QUOTE=andymays]
My point is that when you're in a fight you have to throw many punches and some connect and some don't. [QUOTE]


I respectfully disagree with your fighting techniques. Based on my experiences, I can tell you that if you are significantly smaller and do not possess the brute strength of your opponent, it is imperative to choose your actions wisely. Timing, proper technique, strategy and flawless execution are difference between having your opponent pinned against the ground in a headlock crying uncle and finding yourself being hurled against the wall or worse. And yes, I spent way too much playing war and stuff with the boys in the playground growing up. My moto, bruises can heal, egos can as well just take a little more time. :D

[andymays]

[QUOTE=andymays]
My point is that when you're in a fight you have to throw many punches and some connect and some don't. [QUOTE]


I respectfully disagree with your fighting techniques. Based on my experiences, I can tell you that if you are significantly smaller and do not possess the brute strength of your opponent, it is imperative to choose your actions wisely. Timing, proper technique, strategy and flawless execution are difference between having your opponent pinned against the ground in a headlock crying uncle and finding yourself being hurled against the wall or worse. And yes, I spent way too much playing war and stuff with the boys in the playground growing up. My moto, bruises can heal, egos can as well just take a little more time. :D


When your opponent is bigger and stronger you have to be innovative and resourceful. When that doesn't work and all else fails you kick your opponent in the ****!

We both agree that something needs to be done but we just disagree on what the best way to go is!

[jonnielu]

Well it hasn't been done because we don't even remotely have the requisite funds necessary for an advertising blitzkrieg. This is why I used the magic words, "if someone was willing to underwrite" in the statement I made. Decent mass market advertising is not cheap.

Better mass market advertising (word of mouth) doesn't cost a dime, it just takes people to do it. Just like boycotting Saratoga completely, it just takes people to do it. There are race tracks all over the country.

jdl

[jonnielu]

It is 100% guaranteed that your solution would work. There's no doubt about it. But is it practical or realistic?

Not unrealistic, but it would have to be done to see if it had any effect. Just like people buying no gasoline for a week.

Why would it need to be 100% guaranteed?

jdl

[andymays]

Not unrealistic, but it would have to be done to see if it had any effect. Just like people buying no gasoline for a week.

jdl


The Evil Geniuses that invented vices and such and then perfect them know that it is human nature is to engage in that vice (in this case gambling) no matter what the price. Some people can stay away but most can't!

[jonnielu]

The Evil Geniuses that invented vices and such and then perfect them know that it is human nature is to engage in that vice (in this case gambling) no matter what the price. Some people can stay away but most can't!

Nobody needs to stay away from racing, what is special about Saratoga?

jdl

[andymays]

Nobody needs to stay away from racing, what is special about Saratoga?

jdl


I think most would agree that it's the best meet of the year!

[jonnielu]

I think most would agree that it's the best meet of the year!

If that were true, it would be the meeting to boycott, if anybody wants to be noticed. But, how is it the best meet of the year? Is admission free, or the beer?

jdl

[andymays]

If that were true, it would be the meeting to boycott, if anybody wants to be noticed. But, how is it the best meet of the year? Is admission free, or the beer?

jdl


I like it best since the west went to synthetics. What's your favorite?

[Steve 'StatMan']

If at the track or OTB, one can do a small, grassroots thing like write a tiny note on one side of the paper currency - the bill is still good and still works in the automated machines. The bills then gets passed on to other people at the track for a while until each leave the track and get spend elsewhere or eventually destoryed. Something small like "Trifecta 25% Takeout Unfair" or something like that. Very small, left or right margin, front or back, so you don't ruin or deface the currency, and can still be trimmed off by others and still have a legal bill. How many times have you gotten a bill with some writing on it, in a non-margin area, like a number where someone had written a stack count, or put a birthday message, or smuged ink on it. I did it a couple times when many of us were upset with Tracknet to test this this out a season or two ago. This might be more effective - bettors at the track who read the note know what a Trifecta is -most were probably wondering what's a "tracknet"?) Food for thought.

[jonnielu]

I like it best since the west went to synthetics. What's your favorite?

I don't have one, I find them all playable, some are better then others due to handicapper confusion. Saratoga is the only NY meeting I bother with. I like KEE, GP, AP, DMR, CD, TP, MTH, Tampa is okay. But I'll go play Arapahoe too. Anywhere that horses run.

jdl

[Canarsie]

Well here's my two cents as I believe some in NYRA read this board. A lawsuit cost mucho bucks and is a longshot as best. So I propose no Saratoga picks on this board, it's a simple way to start. The less publicity they get for people to wager the better the chance they get the message.

Problem is will all posters adhere to this? My guess is no and therein lies the problem which is called "unity".

Off my soapbox.

[LottaKash]

Well it hasn't been done because we don't even remotely have the requisite funds necessary for an advertising blitzkrieg. This is why I used the magic words, "if someone was willing to underwrite" in the statement I made. Decent mass market advertising is not cheap.

Perhaps the "Whales" could help, or perhaps, they are they too "comfy" with their ADW-Rebates ?

best,

[rrbauer]

I love the idea of HANA being aggressive and filing class action lawsuits here and there, but the last thing that HANA needs to do is become the PETA of horse players. Horseplayers biggest problem is getting no respect and if HANA isn't respected that hurts any efforts they might have going forward.
As far as NYRA's extreme takeouts you just have to not play into their pools. If NYRA isn't going to lose customers and handle because of these takeouts, than NYRA did a great job to raise them. Horseplayers need to accept responsibility for betting these races. Even though players are in competition with one another in the betting pools, they need to stick together and not play these places. Every dollar you wager into a high takeout track is hurting your fellow player who doesn't want to have to bet into that.

Love your fellow horseplayer and just say no to NYRA.

Horseplayers biggest problem is horseplayers.

[garyoz]

Duh?? What would be the basis of a "class action" suit? Can't think of anything illegal going on. This is all not even half-baked. Sue the Race and Wager Board for New York because the taxpayers are making too much money?--a pretty dumb idea. Why not sue the state because the lottery take is 50%?

It is like suing a casino because you lost money there. Hey, it is caveat emptor.

[Tom]

Nobody needs to stay away from racing, what is special about Saratoga?

jdl

They sell towels and candy in the bathroom.

[miesque]

They sell towels and candy in the bathroom.

:D Good one, Tom, wasn't expecting that for a response.

[BillW]

They sell towels and candy in the bathroom.

I always get a big chuckle out of the ones that eat the candy first and then use the towel. :eek:

[Space Monkey]

I like to demean the cheap aholes that take the towel from the attendant, use the cologne and then don't tip.

[miesque]

I like to demean the cheap aholes that take the towel from the attendant, use the cologne and then don't tip.

People actually use the Cologne/Perfume in the bathrooms? :eek:

[Space Monkey]

yeah, it figures that those types don't tip, if u know what i mean,,lol.

[cj]

yeah, it figures that those types don't tip, if u know what i mean,,lol.

I am normally a good tipper, but I have to be honest, I have never tipped a bathroom attendant in my life. Is it too much to ask for a free clean bathroom? I can pretty easily get my own paper towel.

They have cologne in the bathrooms?

[BombsAway Bob]

At the last desolate bathroom underneath the Saratoga grandstand, near "The Top Of The Stretch" where they set up giveaway tents by the 1/8th pole, the same bathroom attendant usually has Cologne, spray deodorant, newspapers, hard candy, mints, everything but smokes & a Coke.. Plus, great 60's-70's Motown tunes cranked. Stalls are spotless, traffic moves swiftly...He Always gets a buck and a "Have a Lucky Day" from yours truly..
(Hey, it's about an 8-hour day @The SPA...clean facilities are a must!)

[Bruddah]

At the last desolate bathroom underneath the Saratoga grandstand, near "The Top Of The Stretch" where they set up giveaway tents by the 1/8th pole, the same bathroom attendant usually has Cologne, spray deodorant, newspapers, hard candy, mints, everything but smokes & a Coke.. Plus, great 60's-70's Motown tunes cranked. Stalls are spotless, traffic moves swiftly...He Always gets a buck and a "Have a Lucky Day" from yours truly..
(Hey, it's about an 8-hour day @The SPA...clean facilities are a must!)


You get an Amen Bruddah! Good Karma. Plus the attendant has a crappy job, which few others want. A buck out of my pocket won't make or hurt my day but it may help his or hers. I do appreciate clean facilities and the efforts to keep them that way. (JMHO) :ThmbUp:

[fmolf]

You get an Amen Bruddah! Good Karma. Plus the attendant has a crappy job, which few others want. A buck out of my pocket won't make or hurt my day but it may help his or hers. I do appreciate clean facilities and the efforts to keep them that way. (JMHO) :ThmbUp:
someone else said the only way to make nyra see the error of their ways is a total boycott.what good would boycotting the high takeout wagers and betting more into the low takeout pools?they still get their money.How about Hana call a boycott on every wednesday for all horseplayers to not wager on saratoga.I am not a tri or a p3/4 player ever .....win and exacta for me but i would go along with this and not bet at all.Ithink if you look at all tracks you will find the takeout higher on the tri,super and all multi-race wagers.They get 8.5% more takeout on the exotics,that is 33% more than straight betting takeout!

[jonnielu]

someone else said the only way to make nyra see the error of their ways is a total boycott.what good would boycotting the high takeout wagers and betting more into the low takeout pools?they still get their money.How about Hana call a boycott on every wednesday for all horseplayers to not wager on saratoga.I am not a tri or a p3/4 player ever .....win and exacta for me but i would go along with this and not bet at all.Ithink if you look at all tracks you will find the takeout higher on the tri,super and all multi-race wagers.They get 8.5% more takeout on the exotics,that is 33% more than straight betting takeout!

Wow, a total moretorium would be so easy to do, wouldn't cost anybody anything, and would be the one effective thing that bettors could do. And still no traction.

You know, I used to love to go to Hialeah, but some management idiot ran it into the ground and I can't go there anymore anyway. If the bettors won't demonstrate to management what they need to know, who will?

jdl

jdl

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Perhaps the "Whales" could help, or perhaps, they are they too "comfy" with their ADW-Rebates ?


Horseplayers biggest problem is horseplayers.

Exhibit A

[Rookies]

You get an Amen Bruddah! Good Karma. Plus the attendant has a crappy job, which few others want. A buck out of my pocket won't make or hurt my day but it may help his or hers. I do appreciate clean facilities and the efforts to keep them that way. (JMHO) :ThmbUp:

It is VERY BAD Karma to do otherwise... always do at least once a day, especially to the MoTown brother ! :ThmbUp:

[miesque]

It is VERY BAD Karma to do otherwise... always do at least once a day, especially to the MoTown brother ! :ThmbUp:


I agree, definitely bad karma, although I sometimes tip alternating trips (to those tracks which have attendents in the ladies room) because I just use the towels, none of the extras (and definitely not the perfume/cologne).

[Bruddah]

I agree, definitely bad karma, although I sometimes tip alternating trips (to those tracks which have attendents in the ladies room) because I just use the towels, none of the extras (and definitely not the perfume/cologne).

Yeah, I didn't think you were a Brut or Old Spice user. :lol:

As far as attendants in the Ladies room, I might consider that job, if they needed someone to relieve for lunches and breaks. ;)

[Imriledup]

The problem is, and you're not going to believe this, but too many horseplayers don't really care about winning in the long run. People aren't at the track knowing that they have to turn a profit or they don't eat. If the takeout was 99% people would still bet. They want action, they are betting for action, not for money. There are too many people who know they have 0 shot to win in the long run, they just bet, get their action fix, have their fun day at the races and go on with their lives.


The same people who make it possible for some people to make a living at this game are the same people who make it harder to make that particular living.