Question for DanG - OTM Al

[melman]

The "big" debate that is being talked about ALL the time here in Philly is "Should the Phils go after Roy Halladay". The question of course is just how hard do you "go after him". :) IMHO the Phils should go all out in getting his services. I would trade a major league ready low priced guy like J Happ (who BTW I think has a very bright future) plus three of the top prospects for Halladay. The idea is to win championships and with Halladay in the rotation that gives the Phils a much better chance at doing it. A few years back the Red sox got Beckett and a championship but had to give up what turned out to be the best shortstop in the majors today. So be it I still think Boston did the right thing. What are your views on this??

[DanG]

The "big" debate that is being talked about ALL the time here in Philly is "Should the Phils go after Roy Halladay".
I don’t know the Phillies system as you do Mel. I do know Halladay will tear through the national league like the blitzkrieg of Custer. “Doc” will also be the best friend a bullpen could ever have.

Someone has a shot at Cliff Lee as well and I would not want to see him come playoff time if I’m the left handed / loaded Phil’s.

Must be nice to think about adding pieces at the deadline. :)

[melman]

Dan the Phils system has three A+ rated prospects in RHP Drabet and OF's Tayor and Brown. Even if they turn out to be good or even stars I think u go after what I think any fair minded person would think has been one of the top three pitchers in MLB over the last few years. Also getting Halliday from the AL to the NL is even better. :jump: The "other talk" is getting a right handed hitter for off the bench hitting. Hear they are looking at Washington's OF Whitingham. Of course u could go after anyone from Pittsbugh. :jump: They seem willing to trade anyone on the team.

[DanG]

Dan the Phils system has three A+ rated prospects in RHP Drabet and OF's Tayor and Brown. Even if they turn out to be good or even stars I think u go after what I think any fair minded person would think has been one of the top three pitchers in MLB over the last few years. Also getting Halliday from the AL to the NL is even better. :jump: The "other talk" is getting a right handed hitter for off the bench hitting. Hear they are looking at Washington's OF Whitingham. Of course u could go after anyone from Pittsbugh. :jump: They seem willing to trade anyone on the team.
I would steer clear of Whitingham Mel. I remember with the Marlins he puts up most of his numbers in a short time period. The remainder of the season you will need some Maalox!

The GM game in baseball has become so complex. It’s not like it was 20 years ago where you subtract this to gain that. So much has to do with length of contracts, balloon payments, arbitration / free agent clocks, compensation picks etc…

I remember the former GM of the Mets Steve Phillips saying some of his trades were in direct proportion to his own contract and / or stability. 3 grade-A prospects sounds reasonable considering Roy is signed through next year. It’s not often a team has two legitimate #1 starters and Cole will love going against the #2 instead of the ace.

Either way; great position to be in…Top class everyday lineup, young stud left hander, good bullpen and minor league pieces to trade in a division in flux. Now…a short playoff series against the Dodgers with Cliff Lee would be very interesting.

[OTM Al]

Hey Melman

Should they go after him? Abso-friggin-lutely.

Thing is, you have to give talent to get talent. Question is, does what they have mesh with what Toronto is lacking. First you would need to give a guy that can start now. Then, depending on the quality of that starter, you would have to give at least one more good prospect that Toronto would be able to get in the lineup soon.

I can't figure what they really need. They have a good bullpen to my mind. Perhaps somebody that is a good hitter would be highest on their priority list. Toronto has been a big disappointment to me in the last 2 years (though not so much this year) as I thought they had a pretty solid team that just fell apart.

Regardless, consider how good CC was in the NL last year. Halladay is better. A lot better. He should be able to chew right through NL lineups. The NL East is really horrible this year. I missed the boat on that one as I thought they would be (a distant) second best division in MLB. Having Halladay puts a death lock on that division, plain and simple and consider I usually downplay the affects of adding a single starter.

Besides, I don't want to see that guy in the AL anymore! Maybe the Cubs could get him.....He goes to LA Joe Torre gets his 5th ring.

[DanG]

Two things Mel;

Please trade for Halladay tonight before the Rays face him tomorrow :cool: and be sure and see Wise’s catch to save Buehrle’s perfect game. It was as good as it gets and I’m guessing Hawk Harrelson blew a lung!

[OTM Al]

Blew a lung does not come close. ESPN radio cut to the broadcast and if you didn't already know what was happening, you'd have no idea what was going on. Guy was just screaming at the end. Exciting yes (I know as I saw David Wells throw his live and Gooden's no hitter as well) but even a dedicated homer should remember what his job is.

[melman]

Jim Salisbury in today's Philly Inquirer writes "A week before the trade deadline, it seems likely that Halladay will go somewhere. The Phils, Dodgers, Cards, Brewers, Red Sox, Yanks, and the RAYS have expressed interest."

Read that again DanG THE RAYS :jump:

Blue Jays number one scout out to watch the Phils top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek last night in a minor league game at Reading, Pa. The 21 yr old righthander went eight innings, allowed two runs and struck out seven.

The NFL can have it's draft day fun, I really enjoy the "end of July trade rumor season" for MLB. :jump:

[DanG]

Blew a lung does not come close. ESPN radio cut to the broadcast and if you didn't already know what was happening, you'd have no idea what was going on. Guy was just screaming at the end. Exciting yes (I know as I saw David Wells throw his live and Gooden's no hitter as well) but even a dedicated homer should remember what his job is.
If their not on the game of the week or whatever; I love “homer” announcers. IMHO if you’re broadcasting for the local team to not openly rooting it doesn’t represent your audience and is borderline phony to be honest.

Chicago announcers should pull for Chicago just like those SOB’s do on the YES network. :D
http://k53.pbase.com/g6/88/589588/2/86984504.XwxFj1dE.jpg

[DanG]

Jim Salisbury in today's Philly Inquirer writes "A week before the trade deadline, it seems likely that Halladay will go somewhere. The Phils, Dodgers, Cards, Brewers, Red Sox, Yanks, and the RAYS have expressed interest."

Read that again DanG THE RAYS :jump:

Blue Jays number one scout out to watch the Phils top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek last night in a minor league game at Reading, Pa. The 21 yr old righthander went eight innings, allowed two runs and struck out seven.

The NFL can have it's draft day fun, I really enjoy the "end of July trade rumor season" for MLB. :jump:
I couldn’t believe it Mel; even reports of going after Cliff Lee and today the Tribune says Victor Martinez. :eek: (Who does not handle a staff well imo). They must have a three way deal in mind to dump salary. I know they would LOVE to deal Kazmir; but that is selling low and this front office never likes to do that.

Back to back titles with “Doc” in your city Mel is very…very possible. Even without 'Doc for that matter; nobody sane would want to play the Philles in post season.

[OTM Al]

I don't mind homers per se. Harry Caray and Jack Brickhouse were guys I grew up with and loved. John Sterling and Suzan Waldman are an embarassment. I hate having to listen to them when its a day game and I can't watch. A good homer roots for his team but has the ability to be critical as well, just like a good fan. These two...I'm just at a loss for words.

Melman, is that Drabek as like Doug Drabek? Kid's age is about right.

[melman]

Yes Al, that's former MLB pitcher Doug Drabek's son. He "wowed" them at the futures game in St. Louis during the All Star break. Kid must have learned some good things from his Dad. :) Doug was a pretty good pitcher in his day.

[slewis]

Hey Melman

Should they go after him? Abso-friggin-lutely.

Thing is, you have to give talent to get talent. Question is, does what they have mesh with what Toronto is lacking. First you would need to give a guy that can start now. Then, depending on the quality of that starter, you would have to give at least one more good prospect that Toronto would be able to get in the lineup soon.

I can't figure what they really need. They have a good bullpen to my mind. Perhaps somebody that is a good hitter would be highest on their priority list. Toronto has been a big disappointment to me in the last 2 years (though not so much this year) as I thought they had a pretty solid team that just fell apart.

Regardless, consider how good CC was in the NL last year. Halladay is better. A lot better. He should be able to chew right through NL lineups. The NL East is really horrible this year. I missed the boat on that one as I thought they would be (a distant) second best division in MLB. Having Halladay puts a death lock on that division, plain and simple and consider I usually downplay the affects of adding a single starter.

Besides, I don't want to see that guy in the AL anymore! Maybe the Cubs could get him.....He goes to LA Joe Torre gets his 5th ring.


Al,

The last thing the Cubs need is Halladay.
There is nothing wrong with the cubs staff except to get rid of Gregg for a decent closer. They probably will scrap that and go after a decent set up man (easier to find and cheaper price) and give the job to Marmol.

I watch almost every CUB game and they need HITTING.
They need to bite the bullet and give Soriano his bye bye.
Fukudome is tradable to a team like Seattle or SF where Japanese players are more comfortable.
If you looked closely at many of their games they just dont hit but the pitching has been very good, especially the starters. Harden shut the red hot Phils down the other nite and got no support.
Geovany Soto I predicted would be a bust after winning rookie of the year and Im looking good on that call... but I also thought Milton Bradley would have a huge season and he's a total joke.
This years Cub team is a big disappointment.

[slewis]

BTW I argued with a Yankee fan the other day telling him the Phillies are the best team in Baseball and he thinks Im crazy.

If they get Halladay, you will see them really put things together because they are getting healthy and will be very strong in August and September... It will be bye bye for everyone else in the NL.

[melman]

Slew---How would u like Matt Holliday in your outfield? I understand that OAK is shopping him. Hardin has great "stuff" always looks very impressive pitching when he faces the Phils. I cannot understand his home vs away ERA this year. At home he gets hit and away he looks great. The wind cannot be blowing out at Wrigley all the time. Can it?

[OTM Al]

Halladay can make a big difference in the NL no matter who gets him. The Cubs once again intentionally blew themselves up, but forming a team around an already good staff and adding Halladay plus picking up some hitting, which is always much easier to find, makes them quite formidable for next year. Biggest problem the Cubs have IMO is the manager. I have never been a fan of Pinella as a manager. I know he has been said to have mellowed a bit, but frankly to me that makes him even worse because all he ever had was that temper. How the Reds won under him to me is more a testament to the guys on the team than him. Putting Bradley on a team with that guy as manager just couldn't work. I kind of feel for Bradley. He should be a great player, but he has such deep rooted problems that he will never come close to what he could have been. I'd take Lou any day as a hitting coach, but have always hated him as a manager.

Halladay makes so much sense for the Phils it isn't funny. They should be the best NL team with him and definitely one of the best in all baseball. He gives them a great chance to add that big 3rd WS for the club, thus bringing them above the Cub's total despite the fact the Cubs haven't been there in over 60 years....tells you how terrible the organization has been historically where they rate pretty much worst ever.

[melman]

OTM Al---Your not just kidding Al, for years the Phils where a constant joke in the Philly area. Aside from a very good run in the late 70's with Michael Jack and Steve Carlton the Phils have been very very poor, with no minor league system. That all changed about 5 years ago when they finally got some great scouts and a minor league talent man. Bringing up from your own system Rollins, Utley, Howard, and Hamels would help any team. The outfield prospect the Phils have in Michael Taylor is a beast. Big man with big speed, a very strong arm and he hits the ball with authority. Not a big HR guy but a big avg guy. A year or two and this guy will be playing in the "bigs" somewhere.

BTW in 1972 Steve Carlton had 30 yes thirty complete games. In one season. :)

[slewis]

Slew---How would u like Matt Holliday in your outfield? I understand that OAK is shopping him. Hardin has great "stuff" always looks very impressive pitching when he faces the Phils. I cannot understand his home vs away ERA this year. At home he gets hit and away he looks great. The wind cannot be blowing out at Wrigley all the time. Can it?

He's struggled a bit this year and had some injuries (expected) but I think it's just a lack of focus out there.
It seemed to me he challanged himself against the Phils the other nite...really concentrated...and was his old self.

He's a perfect fit for the Cubs...you cant rely on him for 30 starts...but if you get 15-20 quality starts plus playoffs...he perfect.

The Cubs lack athleticism....they are slow all around... they have a 29 yr old in Sam Fuld who's showed some speed and grit...but is he major league stuff at 29?? If he were 22 I would be excited.

As far as Holliday goes, he's a solid player with speed and power... perfect for Wrigley... but he's another right handed hitter in what I think is a lineup with too much right handed power...

The A's took it on the chin last year giving away Harden for Eric Patterson who didnt show me much in his brief showcase before the trade.
When the Cubs acquired Harden they broght up Patterson and Hoffpauir and played them several games and probably gave the A's the choice of the two which the A's went for the more athletic Patterson.... I think he's in their farm system... still.
Question is what do the Cubs give up for Holliday??
I'll give Fukudome, Soriano (Ill pay 70% of his sal.) and a medium prospect... but I dont think the A's would go for it. No one wants Soriano..he's a DOG and now he's a dog that cant hit and has a bad attitude.
Fukudome would be a good outfielder in the spacious A's ballpark.

[slewis]

Halladay can make a big difference in the NL no matter who gets him. The Cubs once again intentionally blew themselves up, but forming a team around an already good staff and adding Halladay plus picking up some hitting, which is always much easier to find, makes them quite formidable for next year. Biggest problem the Cubs have IMO is the manager. I have never been a fan of Pinella as a manager. I know he has been said to have mellowed a bit, but frankly to me that makes him even worse because all he ever had was that temper. How the Reds won under him to me is more a testament to the guys on the team than him. Putting Bradley on a team with that guy as manager just couldn't work. I kind of feel for Bradley. He should be a great player, but he has such deep rooted problems that he will never come close to what he could have been. I'd take Lou any day as a hitting coach, but have always hated him as a manager.

Halladay makes so much sense for the Phils it isn't funny. They should be the best NL team with him and definitely one of the best in all baseball. He gives them a great chance to add that big 3rd WS for the club, thus bringing them above the Cub's total despite the fact the Cubs haven't been there in over 60 years....tells you how terrible the organization has been historically where they rate pretty much worst ever.


I 100% agree about Piniella.

I cannot tell you how many times this season (remember this team isn't hitting a lick) they have 1st and 2nd or 2nd and third with no one out and they dont score. Then they lose the game 2-1... He should sit his team down and say "until you guys can prove to me that you're capable of racking up the runs like last yr, we'll be nickle and diming it". Everyone will learn how to bunt and we'll play National League Baseball".

Of course he gives guys like Soriano another chance .,.... and another... and another.. and it's whiff whiff whiff....

BTW... do these hitting coaches watch replays? Every pitcher in major, minor AND little league baseball knows you get Soriano out by throwing him sliders outside and low. He takes the bate every day.
Id make him sit his ass in the batting cage and have a pitcher throw slider after slider on the outside corner.
Id also make him step INTO that pitch if he's going to try to hit it and teach hime to DRIVE the ball to RF.
Problem with todays high priced superstar that aint so super.... they're too good to learn new things.

[DanG]

Just came across btw; Matt Holliday to the Cardinals for 3 minor leaguers. Major protection for Big Albert and it really forces the Cubs hand imo.

[slewis]

Just came across btw; Matt Holliday to the Cardinals for 3 minor leaguers. Major protection for Big Albert and it really forces the Cubs hand imo.


If Hendry were smart he'd sit pat.... Cubs dont have it this year.

Dont make any foolish moves with young players.

Cardinal management making a push to win the division... so what .. they're really not a good team... they are just ok.

[DanG]

I

Cardinal management making a push to win the division... so what .. they're really not a good team... they are just ok.
Isn’t that the point of making a move? The division is there for the taking with one reasonable hot streak. I would not bury Chicago yet < 2 games out with the their issues.

[slewis]

Isn’t that the point of making a move? The division is there for the taking with one reasonable hot streak. I would not bury Chicago yet < 2 games out with the their issues.


Sorry Dan

I just re-read my response and I apologize. I think you took it the wrong way and it's my fault.

You are correct. What I meant is that, in my opinion, with the Cards lack of quality pitching I dont think it will matter regardless of winning the division, which I think they will.

This is a good move to protect Albert in the lineup.
I've given up on the Cubs because the players I was counting on to get the job done, especially Soriano, are not gonna get done.
Maybe Im wrong.... they do have quality pitching......


Thanks for the response and again, sorry for the misunder.

[DanG]

You are correct. What I meant is that, in my opinion, with the Cards lack of quality pitching I dont think it will matter regardless of winning the division, which I think they will.

Random thoughts…

• I agree with the Cardinal pitching talent (or lack of), but I’ve said that for a decade+. :blush: Dave Duncan is without doubt a “super-trainer” among pitching coaches. He gets more graded performances from claimers then anyone I’m aware of. I would almost NEVER ‘claim off the Cardinals.

• Ryan Dempster has to be a boost for the Cubs if and when he comes back. Just pitch him at home and write in the ‘W.

• If I’m seeing the schedule right…the Cubs only have 3 left with the Cards? There is no other word for that but STUPID! :bang:

• If the Cubs can keep it within reach; Sept-18th to the 27th will be tough; 10 day trip with no days off at STL / MIL and SF, before ending with getting 6 at home with Pit and Ari.

• 9 of the Cardinals last 12 are on the road (including Colorado) and they finish with the Brew Crew who even if out of it will like to play spoiler if they can.

Please keep it close; we need another race to follow and sports are always more interesting when Chicago is involved.

[eastie]

Two things Mel;

Please trade for Halladay tonight before the Rays face him tomorrow :cool: and be sure and see Wise’s catch to save Buehrle’s perfect game. It was as good as it gets and I’m guessing Hawk Harrelson blew a lung!

rode in Hawk Harrelson's purple dune buggy when I was a kid. i was friends with his son Red. There weren't many purple dune buggies around Eastie in those days.:) The Mets were not amused, and I don't mean the New York Mets either.

[slewis]

Random thoughts…

• I agree with the Cardinal pitching talent (or lack of), but I’ve said that for a decade+. :blush: Dave Duncan is without doubt a “super-trainer” among pitching coaches. He gets more graded performances from claimers then anyone I’m aware of. I would almost NEVER ‘claim off the Cardinals.

• Ryan Dempster has to be a boost for the Cubs if and when he comes back. Just pitch him at home and write in the ‘W.

• If I’m seeing the schedule right…the Cubs only have 3 left with the Cards? There is no other word for that but STUPID! :bang:

• If the Cubs can keep it within reach; Sept-18th to the 27th will be tough; 10 day trip with no days off at STL / MIL and SF, before ending with getting 6 at home with Pit and Ari.

• 9 of the Cardinals last 12 are on the road (including Colorado) and they finish with the Brew Crew who even if out of it will like to play spoiler if they can.

Please keep it close; we need another race to follow and sports are always more interesting when Chicago is involved.

I cant disagree with one thing you've said.
Problem is I want to have a real chance at a World championship.
The Cubbies are the only major sports team I root hard for that has not won their respective championship in my lifetime....and I have a feeling I might not see one.
This team wont get it done..the pitching is good but not great, and because it's not great you need to compensate with very good hitting.
They dont have that, not even close.... so it's bye bye 2009 cubs.

As far as the Cards, great mgr, solid lineup, good defense... but you need to pitch in the playoffs and WS. They have zip and are no match for LA and would get killed by the Phils.

[DanG]

I cant disagree with one thing you've said.
Problem is I want to have a real chance at a World championship.
The Cubbies are the only major sports team I root hard for that has not won their respective championship in my lifetime....and I have a feeling I might not see one.
This team wont get it done..the pitching is good but not great, and because it's not great you need to compensate with very good hitting.
They dont have that, not even close.... so it's bye bye 2009 cubs.

As far as the Cards, great mgr, solid lineup, good defense... but you need to pitch in the playoffs and WS. They have zip and are no match for LA and would get killed by the Phils.
I know what you mean, but especially that 1st 5 game series it’s a real crap shoot. Let’s say for arguments sake San Fran played the Phil’s. On paper from top to bottom it’s a complete mismatch, but let Linsicum steal one in Philly and all of the sudden it becomes a fight.

Too many examples of the ‘superior’ squad losing in a short series. Over 162; very hard to “fake it” which is why I get a little defensive (ok a lot defensive :D ) when people say the Rays won with mirrors last year.

Let you’re Cubbies catch fire at the right time and there might be a Chicago parade led by a Goat this year…long shot; but stranger things have happened.

eastie ~ rode in Hawk Harrelson's purple dune buggy when I was a kid. i was friends with his son Red. There weren't many purple dune buggies around Eastie in those days.
Nice Eastie! I’m guessing when you asked Hawk if you could post that story gave you this shirt…

http://rlv.zcache.com/you_can_put_it_on_the_board_yes_tshirt-p235587191457101103trlf_400.jpg

[melman]

Jim Salisbury in today's Philly Inquirer writes that "according to a person with direct knowledge of the situation, officials from the Phils and Jays spoke Thursday. During the conversation, the source said, the Jays officially set their asking price for Halladay at Kyle Drabek (top pitching prospect) Dominic Brown (one of the Phils top two outfield prospects) and J Happ." IMHO I say to GM Rueben Amaro Jr of the Phils---Let's get it done. You have to give up talent to get talent. Both Drabek and Brown may turn out to be stars but in Halladay you get a proven superstar at the Phils weak spots which is starting pitching. I have never seen this Dominic Brown play a game but in listening to the Phils director of minor league personnel he is a real 5 tool guy. I have seen the other top outfield prospect of the Phils (Michael Taylor) play and if Brown is rated with him then the Jays are getting a real A+ shot at a more than everyday player. Again I recall the Red Sox giving up a great prospect to the Marlins in return for Beckett. Beckett was a huge factor in the Sox getting another title. The great prospect was Hanley Ramiriz who I consider the best shortstop in the game today. I still think the Red Sox did the right thing. Pitching during the marathon regular season can be overcome but in the playoffs it's very very important. For example if the SF Giants get into the playoffs in a five game series they have a shot because of there two very good pitchers. In a short series that makes up for a much poorer overall team. BTW I wish MLB would make that first playoff series into a 7 gamer. Wishful thinking I guess. :)

[eastie]

hey Dan, what's the best game you ever attended ?

[DanG]

hey Dan, what's the best game you ever attended ?
Wow…I sure can’t top that East; not even close really. 1975 Game-6 at Fenway is as good as it gets. :ThmbUp:

• “Best” is really hard to think of right now; fresh in my memory is game-7 last year vs. your Red Sox. There is something very personal between the two teams that goes way beyond the Rays / Yankees down here for whatever reason. I was raised a Giant / Ranger / Met fan so the Giants Super Bowl vs. Buffalo and several great Ranger playoff games come to mind.

Different memorable events…

• Most memorable for another reason; as a testosterone filled teenager I went to the old Philly spectrum in a Ranger jersey for a Flyer game. :blush: That was fun to say the least! :D

• Hottest ever at a game: Philly / Met game at the old Vet sometime in the 70’s and there isn’t even a close second. Everyone in our outfield section was pouring sweat and several people were carried out…just BRUTAL!!!

• Coldest game ever; I know many Green Bay fans can top this, but for baseball some of those Met games at Shea were teeth chattering cold! :eek:

• Best raw athletic move that made an impression; Way back in the days of the ABA it was garbage time and Dr J. made a steal and HUGE Artis Gilmore was hanging back under the basket. The good doctor jammed over Artis and the place exploded. For those who only saw Dr J in the NBA; he was a true athletic freak in his ABA days.

• Most impressive sporting event; this one is easy; Army vs. Navy football is a MUST for any sports fan and you don’t really need to be a sports fan to get goose bumps either.

• Finally while it wasn’t a game…I’ll always remember seeing Secretariat’s retirement ceremony at Aqueduct.

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/3539/Secretariat4.jpg

[eastie]

Big Red loved to ham it up.Funny you say that Mets games at Shea were so cold. Most people don't realize that Fenway is colder than Mt Washington for April night games.

[DanG]

Jim Salisbury in today's Philly Inquirer writes that "according to a person with direct knowledge of the situation, officials from the Phils and Jays spoke Thursday.
If Doc slips away Mel; another loss that’s hard to quantify is he makes other pitchers better. AJ Burnett is a perfect example; he treaded .500 water with incredible stuff and he credited Roy with teaching him how to compete and he’s been very consistent for the first time in his life.

Please get him into the National league!!!

BTW: Little mystery why the Dodgers are looking hard at Cliff Lee with a potential Howard / Utley match-up down the road.

[melman]

Dan, I think something is going to get done before deadline. Either Halladay or Lee. The Phils sent there top guy out to watch Lee pitch last night. The Phils typically send just one executive on road trips, but this time nearly every member of the front office boarded the team charter to Arizona last night. On Sunday Howard had yet another "moon shot" to dead center. EST at 443 feet. The crowd was buzzing for the next inning.

[PeteKoch]

I'm a semi-regular at the Lakewood Blue Claws games; they're the Phils' low Class A team. I've seen them all come through -- Howard, Floyd, Hamels, Bourne, Happ, Jaramillo and Donald.

Of them all, Hamels was the only one who had Major League Star written all over him. I thought Howard might make it. He only hit 19 dingers in 140 games at Lakewood. Turns out he improved by leaps and bounds every step up the ladder in the minors. I saw Donald play maybe 10 times and I thought I was looking at JRoll's eventual replacement.

The point I want to make is that the year Drabek was here, I never got to see him pitch - he had arm trouble. It wasn't that I always managed to go to games where he wasn't starting. It's just that he didn't make very many appearances. So he may be pitching lights out for Reading, but, in my mind, he's still a BIG IF. Arm trouble has a way of returning. I always think of Mark Prior. When he came up, he threw 92 mph and it looked like he was playing catch. I thought he had the best mechanics I'd seen since Seaver and would never have arm trouble (on the flip side, I think Lincecum's career isn't going to be all that long; the kid throws way too hard -- reminds me of Kerry Wood).

As for Happ, he has also surprised me in the bigs. But what happens the second time teams see him? It wouldn't surprise me if his win count doesn't grow much while his ERA does. Call him an IF, but not as big as Drabek, since he does now have MLB credibility.

So that leaves the Phils with Blanton, who looked very good yesterday and is an innings eater, and Hamels. What worries me about Hamels is his stamina and what I perceive as physical frailty. Didn't he break his arm a few years ago? Also, he looks to be wearing out a little right now. Last year, he did a stint on the DL which did him a world of good. When he returned, he finished the season looking like Koufax. Charlie would be wise to go a little easier using Hamels if he can, especially if the Phils can get a little further ahead of the Braves.

I don't know anything about Dominic Brown. If he was in Lakewood and I saw him, he didn't make much of an impression on me, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't improve tons year to year, as Howard did.

So would I make the trade? In a heartbeat. Happ is an IF. Brown and Drabek are BIG IFs.

Harry Leroy Halladay III is a proven stud, owns one Cy Young and was in the discussion for at least one other, and is easily one of the 2 or 3 best righthanders in MLB.

[melman]

Pete-How did you miss out on Utley? Guess he did not come thru Lakewood. That is one guy I hope stays in Philly for his entire career. He plays the game right. No "plays off" or watching how well he hit the ball. Drabek has already had "Tommy John" seems most of those guys come back OK maybe even throwing a little harder. I love the movement on Happ''s pitches and think he will become a good number two starter. I have not seen Dominic Brown play either however I read that many pro scouts think he is a future all-star. He's six feet six 210 and called a young Darryl Strawberry
Don't get me wrong however, I would trade those three for Halladay with no problem as Halladay is a proven superstar who the Phils would have not just for the rest of this year but all next year as well.
BTW Pete have you seen Michael Taylor play yet? He is now with Lehigh Valley triple A team and Channel 69 out of Allentown has there Satarday night games televised. That young man is also a hitting machine with not as much power but big speed and a powerful arm.

[PeteKoch]

Utley never came through Lakewood. Taylor, I think, won the SAL batting title, or at least was in the running for a long time. He also impressed me with his range on defense. The problem is that, even if you see as many as 20 games a year, as I sometimes did, you need to see these kids every day. There are exceptions, of course. In the SAL finals in 2006, the talent of one Eugenio Velez of the visitors (Augusta ???) really stood out. Turns out he was the SAL MVP and jumped to the Giants in 2007. After spending all of 2008 with the big club, he was just reassigned.

I don't think I ever saw Howard hit a HR in his year with the Claws, and that was probably over 8-10 games. The only time I ever saw him hit one out was in a rehab game in 2007 (??? -- the year he had the quad injury). The following night, he went 0-4 against low A pitching. Then he flew to Atlanta to rejoin the big club and hit one out in his first AB back, I think. Funny game.

[OTM Al]

Big series, at least for July, starting tonight down in St Pete Dan. I figure the Rays really need at least 2 of 3 or they risk falling too far back. A sweep by the Yanks would be devistating and I believe both AJ and CC will be pitching in this one. By the looks of things right now though I think the Sox may end up odd team out in the end, but it may be tight all the way to October.

[melman]

Should be a fun three nights of "doubleheaders" for me. First Rays/Yanks then Phils/D-Backs. Just glad the Phils do not have to compete in that AL Beast. :) Three of the best teams in baseball. I like "Big Game James" tonight and hope "Pat the Bat" gets a big hit. When he was with the Phils he was a class A "Met Killer" maybe it will continue with the Yanks. :jump:

[PeteKoch]

BTW Pete have you seen Michael Taylor play yet? He is now with Lehigh Valley triple A team and Channel 69 out of Allentown has there Satarday night games televised. That young man is also a hitting machine with not as much power but big speed and a powerful arm.

Now that I think about it, I think Taylor is also a 6'6" Strawberry clone. I only saw him maybe once, then he got promoted to the Threshers in mid-season. My attendance at the games dropped off last year. Brown was also on the 2008 team. Both big guys.

[DanG]

OTM Al ~ Big series, at least for July, starting tonight down in St Pete Dan. I figure the Rays really need at least 2 of 3 or they risk falling too far back. A sweep by the Yanks would be devistating and I believe both AJ and CC will be pitching in this one. By the looks of things right now though I think the Sox may end up odd team out in the end, but it may be tight all the way to October.

Melman ~ Should be a fun three nights of "doubleheaders" for me. First Rays/Yanks then Phils/D-Backs. Just glad the Phils do not have to compete in that AL Beast. Three of the best teams in baseball. I like "Big Game James" tonight and hope "Pat the Bat" gets a big hit. When he was with the Phils he was a class A "Met Killer" maybe it will continue with the Yanks.

It should be fun Al / Mel;

The Rays are actually ahead of where I thought they would be right now. I picked them for 3rd for many reasons, but if you told me their all their issues before the year and said 9 games over going into July 27th I would be (I am) very impressed to be honest.

Agreed; a sweep would put them behind the 8-ball, but the wild card remains an outside shot. Too many players playing below par to compete with the two monsters, but one thing they have in their favor that most don’t is they don’t fear NY or Boston and not many teams can honestly say that.

Couple things on ‘Pat the Bat’ Mel; he is trying to hit 5 run homers with nobody on to make up for a disastrous free agent year, so its very tough to judge him right now. He can’t do anything with the outside pitch and is easily jammed. It has to be a complete meatball and even then he is fouling some back.

I thought someone on MLB made an interesting point the other night about trades. He claimed there are many turn arounds in a players 2nd trade. The 1st trade is a complete shock to the system; new club, place to live, family uprooted etc…where the 2nd deal can make a player focus. (I.e. Holliday on the Cardinals)

In Burrell’s case throw in a new league and not everyone can DH successfully. I'll say this for Pat; he hasn’t made any excuses before or after the DL time. He says flat out he’s stunk the place up, but it’s nothing a hot two months couldn’t erase.

BTW: You don’t know how enjoyable it is to talk about games in this light compared to the dark (Namoli) years of this franchise. However bad it looked to anyone outside this city…it was 1,000 times worse. :eek: :D

Enjoy!

[DanG]

Big series, at least for July, starting tonight down in St Pete Dan. I figure the Rays really need at least 2 of 3 or they risk falling too far back. A sweep by the Yanks would be devistating and I believe both AJ and CC will be pitching in this one. By the looks of things right now though I think the Sox may end up odd team out in the end, but it may be tight all the way to October.
Your boys mean business this year Al. With the struggling Kaz vs. CC next it looks like a bridge jump on the NY / Boston playoff quinella. The next Bomber / Beantown series should be very interesting. (4 game series Aug-6th / 9th in the Bronx)

[eastie]

Bard hit 100 mph on the gun last night. The red sox have too much pitching, not to be in it till the very end. Pat the Bat.....lol salami bat Pat. He'll be out of baseball shortly. i wish you guys would slow the Bombers down a little.

[OTM Al]

Despite the constant drumming of the point, the Red Sox currently do not have too much pitching. They are good, but they have holes. Beckett and Lester undoubtably are top shelf, but then it drops off. Wakefield is hurt and relying on a knuckballer for anything but chewing up innings is a tricky proposition. Buckholtz has been a little on the weak side and Smoltz is a shadow of his former self, which should not be surprising. The bullpen is solid too, but not overwhelming. A strong return of Matsuzaka would be a huge lift to the staff. What's killing the team though is that other 50% of the game. Ortiz has been awful which makes the black hole that Varatek is at the plate stand out all the much more. Lowell is history at this point as well and Elsbury still hasn't lived up to his once believed potential. The fact they got asnything out of JD Drew remains an absolute miracle to me. The Sox are living right now only on reputation and that 8-0 record against the Yankees. Were that 4-4 as it easily could have been, the Sox would be in a little bit of trouble right now.

[DanG]

Neither squad is invincible; but neither squad is a finished product yet either. If history proves anything both will add pieces as necessary and that can separate them down the stretch. Let Lester sprain an ankle or the indestructible Mariano tweak something and things can change quickly.

Unlike horseracing where if you buy blueblood pedigrees and or established stars you can’t (if your sane, or Gill) run them down peoples throats in low priced claimers. In baseball all teams leave from the same starting gate, but the similarities to a degree stop there.

The Yankee’s committed to almost ½ billon dollars in 3 free agents for example. This is without mentioning there high existing payroll. Baseball has examples of low to mid payroll teams winning the whole thing, but to keep that type of spending power down for very long is virtually impossible. (I guess maybe the Mets might defeat that argument :D )

IMO: Boston is clearly better then they look right now…the Yankees are very, very good but not quite as good as they look right now and the Rays are caught in the crossfire between two super powers. Tampa will probably wish they ‘sold a little at the deadline setting up next year.

BTW: Over 162 teams make their own breaks and the best team prevails, but imo most teams that win pennants have a few ‘magical’ wins to jump start their push. The Yank’s had a few at the right time such as that Castillo drop of a routine A-Rod pop out that can really give a class team and their fan base a needed adrenaline rush.

[melman]

Seems a lot of people in my area are upset with all the talk and rumors as trade deadline day approaches. Not me I get a big kick out of this time of year and watching the various teams GM's squirm and earn there money. :) Dan a well respected baseball reporter from my are (Todd Zalecki) reports the Rays are "hot" for the services of one Victor Martinez. It's reported the Phils have "Plan A", Halladay, "Plan B", Lee and "Plan C", Washburn of SEA. :jump: Had to laugh at the reaction of Washburn when asked about the many rumors mentioning his name, he said "A lot of LIES". :) In Rays/Yanks starting pitching again showed just how important it is. AJ was very good in game one and last night Kaz was dominant. He's thowing a lot less harder but was a real "pitcher". That performance could have several teams hot to get him, or maybe cause the Rays to want to keep him. Speaking of pitchers have any of you seen the 47 yr old Jamie Moyer? He of the 84 mph "fastball". :) He just joined Phil Niekro as the oldest pitcher to win 10 or more games in a season.

OTM Al---Just how much longer do you think Omar will last as GM of the Mets? That was one crazy press conferance. The old "foot in mouth" problem for Minaya.

[OTM Al]

I had the radio on when that thing was aired. For sports radio, that may have been the greatest press conference of all time. A train wreck of incredible proportions from start to end. My guess is that Minaya is gone at the end of the year. I don't think he was at all in trouble before this, but this likely finished him.

[DanG]

Dan a well respected baseball reporter from my are (Todd Zalecki) reports the Rays are "hot" for the services of one Victor Martinez. It's reported the Phils have "Plan A", Halladay, "Plan B", Lee and "Plan C", Washburn of SEA.

OTM Al---Just how much longer do you think Omar will last as GM of the Mets? That was one crazy press conferance. The old "foot in mouth" problem for Minaya.
Thanks for the heads up on the Minaya insanity. You can’t get dumber in that media market to gift wrap an open wound.

I’ve heard that Mel on Martinez and I could be wrong but since this new owner / GM has been here it’s when you don’t hear something they make a move. These X Wall Street guys are the “anti-Minaya” and would make tremendous poker players.

It’s remarkable on Moyer…Moyer, Buehrle and the very underrated J.P Howell etc are proof you don’t have to throw hard to pitch inside effectively. Moyer keeps teasing you with 2 inches off the edge and then sneaks that cutter inside and your 0 for 3 before you realize it.

BTW-I: If there are any baseball ‘sheet players’ they will be playing Garza to ‘bounce’ off that gut buster he threw beating ‘Doc Halladay in his last start.

BTW-II: I’m sure he’s not overlooked in Philly, but the most underrated / outstanding winner to me is Shane Victorino. I don’t really know how he stacks up fantasy wise etc…but he would fall on a live grenade to win. Anytime you grow tired of him Mel; please let us know! ;)

[melman]

Shane "the Flyin Hawaiian" V has to be a contender for NL Player of the Month. Hitting at a 367 rate with 36 hits and 23 runs scored for the month. Not to mention a couple of great catches in centerfield. He plays a "shallow" CF thus taking hits away from hitters with the "dunkers". He can do that because he is very fast and has great ability to go back on a ball over his head. Jo Roll for the month of July is also hitting 342 and has 22 runs scored. No wonder they are 19-5 for the month. Even more amazing is the teams away record of 31-15.

As you know Dan baseball does attract a lot of female fans, much more so than football. Thus the two most popular Phils are Cole Hamels and Jayson Werth. :jump:

One guy that has been very very impressive to fundamental baseball people is Pedro Feliz at 3rd. Jo Roll at short with his great range and strong throwing arm tends to make 3rd baseman look bad. Not Feliz who in just the last week has saved many a run with some great stops and throws at 3rd.

[OTM Al]

Thanks for the heads up on the Minaya insanity. You can’t get dumber in that media market to gift wrap an open wound.

Yes you can Dan, implicate a member of that media on groundless charges as a vindicative act, which is exactly what they did. They evidently apologized last night, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

[DanG]

Yes you can Dan, implicate a member of that media on groundless charges as a vindicative act, which is exactly what they did. They evidently apologized last night, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle.
You said it Al; complete amateur hour. He must have some compromising photos of Wilpon we don’t know about.

Injuries aside; if you gave the Rays GM (or any of the top 5) the Mets resources I have a feeling he would field a better product, or at least have some quality depth.

It's off to Saratoga now...best of luck ladies and gents with a real tough card.

[melman]

FOX Sports is reporting as a "done deal" this trade.

Phils get Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco a righthanded bat for off the bench.
Indians get Carlos Carasco, Jason Donald, Jason Napp, Lou Marston. Three A rated prospects plus an 18 yr old pitcher in Napp who is already rated an A+ with a huge "upside". He throws hard, very hard. I believe this report as the Phils triple A team in Lehigh Valley has three of those players and all of them were accounced as scratched for tonight's triple A game.

[OTM Al]

Why is it every time I hear the name Ben Francisco I think of those old Rice-a-Roni commercials.......

Phils just got a couple really good players for next to nothing (potential and high rated minor leaguers are nothing compared to the chance of winning it all in October). Good move.

[PeteKoch]

FOX Sports is reporting as a "done deal" this trade.

Phils get Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco a righthanded bat for off the bench.
Indians get Carlos Carasco, Jason Donald, Jason Napp, Lou Marston. Three A rated prospects plus an 18 yr old pitcher in Napp who is already rated an A+ with a huge "upside". He throws hard, very hard. I believe this report as the Phils triple A team in Lehigh Valley has three of those players and all of them were accounced as scratched for tonight's triple A game.

The 2006 Lakewood Blue Claws won the SAL title primarily on pitching. Matt Maloney was the ace and is now with the Reds. Josh Outman (great name for a pitcher) has appeared for the A's, but is now on the DL. Yet, Carasco, the member of the staff then considered to be the best prospect, seems to be taking the longest to develop.

The guy I hate to see go most is Donald. JRoll isn't getting any younger and the Phils still haven't come close to replacing Scott Rolen at 3B. But the Phils keep Happ, Drabek and Brown.

I really like this deal. Let's hope Lee responds positively to a change of scenery.

[PeteKoch]

....but the Phils keep Happ, Drabek and Brown.


Does anyone think that, besides the Lee deal, the Halladay for Drabek, Happ and Brown trade is still possible?

[DanG]

Its sounds like the ‘Doc deal is broken, but the Lee trade is a win / win for this year imo. It not only helps the Phil’s now but keeps them from potentially facing him in the playoffs.

Right now the Phil’s look set for 5+ years; but as we all know…strike while the irons hot because things can change very quickly in pro sports.

[PeteKoch]

Its sounds like the ‘Doc deal is broken, but the Lee trade is a win / win for this year imo. It not only helps the Phil’s now but keeps them from potentially facing him in the playoffs.

Right now the Phil’s look set for 5+ years; but as we all know…strike while the irons hot because things can change very quickly in pro sports.

Yeah, on either MLB or ESPN News, they said the Halladay deal is dead for the Phils, that the deal with Cleveland was Plan B. But they also said they didn't think the Phils were done dealing.

Just saw Eugenio Velez score the winning run for the Giants, going 2-4. SF had sent him down to Fresno, but he's back. And hot. Of all the kids I have watched playing A ball for the last 9 years, I think his talent stood out more than anyone else's. He went from low A to the bigs in about 6 months and he stuck.

The Giants just made a deal to get Garko (also from CLE), and are said to be trying to deal for Freddie Sanchez PIT, but PIT just made a deal with SEA.

Going to be a great couple of days.....

[OTM Al]

Some talk is that the Seattle deal with the Pirates may be so they can move Washburn. Yanks are evidently interested in him and he would be much more affordable than Halladay.

[DanG]

How about when Pittsburgh Pirate fans get their season ticket renewals in the mail. Wow… :eek: talk about frustrating Déjà vu for many…many years now. Literally a farm team for the league. I’m not criticizing btw, just empathizing. Rays fans have no grounds to judge after being beneath the La Brea Tar Pits under Namoli for a decade.

Seattle was in the worst position possible (similar to Tampa) in your close enough to take a shot / and yet far enough back to be a seller. That’s when GM’s earn their money. You can set up and / or cripple a franchise by calling this wrong. Except in Pittsburgh of course where the only decision is do we sell on eBay or Craigslist. :faint:

If you follow trade rumors btw; unless you’re a fan of one of the handful of teams isn’t it a little frustrating how 80+% of the league is left out of the shopping spree? I know…free market etc; but when you hear someone is available just round up the usual suspects and start the auction.

Random NL thoughts; for all their wins, the Dodgers do not have a scary rotation come playoff time / where as the Giants do imo.

Ever since the Cub’s have had Ramirez their offense seems to come and go with his presence. Along with leading off Fukudome when Aramis came back the Cubs take on a completely different (very good) look.

Vin Scully is not in the top ten of all time baseball announcers…he is ALL TEN! I heard him the other night for the first time in a little while and at 80+ yo…it was perfection. One long stream of consciousness going from live action to background story. He has what the great screen writers have in they can fully develop characters, engage the audience and each broadcast Vin does should be in Cooperstown. A true American treasure! :ThmbUp:

[PeteKoch]

FOX Sports is reporting as a "done deal" this trade.

Phils get Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco a righthanded bat for off the bench.
Indians get Carlos Carasco, Jason Donald, Jason Napp, Lou Marston. Three A rated prospects plus an 18 yr old pitcher in Napp who is already rated an A+ with a huge "upside". He throws hard, very hard. I believe this report as the Phils triple A team in Lehigh Valley has three of those players and all of them were accounced as scratched for tonight's triple A game.

There will be a lot of movement in the Phils system now. I expect to see even more promotions than usual into and out of Lakewood. With Marson gone, the Pigs are down to 1 catcher and they also only have 3 OFs on their roster. Last I checked, Dominic Brown was still in Clearwater.

Heard anything about who's moving where? I strongly suspect that they'll leave Drabek in Reading through the remainder of 2009.

[OTM Al]

Vin Scully is not in the top ten of all time baseball announcers…he is ALL TEN! I heard him the other night for the first time in a little while and at 80+ yo…it was perfection. One long stream of consciousness going from live action to background story. He has what the great screen writers have in they can fully develop characters, engage the audience and each broadcast Vin does should be in Cooperstown. A true American treasure! :ThmbUp:

Vin is a great Dan, but there are many others who he himself learned from and were very good as well. The guys that learned to do it on the radio generally have been the best at it but there are a few that have only been TV guys that are pretty good. Personal favorites having grown up in the midwest are Jack Brickhouse, Harry Caray and believe it or not, Bob Eucker, who absolutely had me in stitiches listening to him do Brewers games several years ago. Old tapes of Mel Allen or Red Barber are fantastic. I really like the color comentary Ken Singleton does on the Yanks broadcasts. Besides the knowledge and the ability to express it, he has one of those perfect speaking voices.

[PeteKoch]

Heard anything about who's moving where? I strongly suspect that they'll leave Drabek in Reading through the remainder of 2009.

Bill Conlin of the Pha Daily News points out one obvious move: Mayberry goes back to the Pigs, where he can play every day.

[melman]

We in Philly just this spring lost one of the all time great play by play guys in Harry Kalas. The man was a treasure. His time in the booth with the late Richie Ashburn was just a perfect combination. Lots of people in the area have his voice as ringtones with his call of "that ball is outta here" home run call. Harry the K did a lot of work for NFL and called some basketball also. His first love was far and away baseball and oh how he loved to hang with the players. With Harry it could be the clubhouse attendant or a super star like Michael Jack he treated people the same. His Hall of Fame induction last year was a mob scene.

[falconridge]

How about when Pittsburgh Pirate fans get their season ticket renewals in the mail. Wow… :eek: talk about frustrating Déjà vu for many…many years now. Literally a farm team for the league. [ ... ]

Seattle was in the worst position possible (similar to Tampa) in your close enough to take a shot / and yet far enough back to be a seller. That’s when GM’s earn their money. You can set up and / or cripple a franchise by calling this wrong. Except in Pittsburgh of course where the only decision is do we sell on eBay or Craigslist. :faint:

Vin Scully is not in the top ten of all time baseball announcers…he is ALL TEN! I heard him the other night for the first time in a little while and at 80+ yo…it was perfection. One long stream of consciousness going from live action to background story. He has what the great screen writers have in they can fully develop characters, engage the audience and each broadcast Vin does should be in Cooperstown. A true American treasure! :ThmbUp:
Hear, hear. The ballparks built near the confluence of the Allegheny, Monongahela, and Ohio have for the past two decades functioned as purgatory for whoever wears a white uniform within the not-so-friendly confines. Play reasonably well for the Pirates, and you may eventually be rewarded by playing for another team. Over the past 15 years, what GM wouldn't have tried to make room on the roster for: Nyjer Morgan, of; Freddy Sanchez, 2b; Jason Bay, lf; Xavier Nady, rf; Nate McLouth, cf; Aramis Ramirez, 3b; Jack Wilson, ss; Brian Giles, of; Jose Guillen, of; Gary Matthews, Jr., of (.313 & 19 HR for Texas in '06); Jason Schmidt, rhp; Jon Lieber, rhp; Denny Neagle, lhp (20-game winner, with a 2.97 ERA, for Atlanta the year after the Pirates traded him). On the other hand, ventures into the free-agent market have produced such gems as Derek "Operation Shutdown" Bell, who in 2001 signed a two-year $9.5M contract to join the Pittsburgh BC, then proceeded to hit a lusty .173 with 13 RBI in Bucs' black and gold. :bang: The Corsairs ate the remaining year of DB's contract, and bade him bon voyage as he sailed away on his yacht, hopefully bound for the Bermuda Triangle.

Spot on re Vinny, Dan. :ThmbUp: Have a listen: http://www.doubledogmusic.com/baseball/Scully_Koufax_Perfect.mp3. I was tuned to KFI 640AM (once the Dodgers' 50K-watt flagship station, with a signal strength great enough for me to pick up the Bums' broadcasts in the SF Bay Area) that September night in 1965 when No. 32 spun his perfecto against the Cubs. Awfully thoughtful of Koufax to spare his fielders the anxiety of marring his gem by misplaying a ball hit their way; Sandy struck out the last six batters. He even made it easy on home-plate umpire Ed Vargo, who never had to agonize over whether to call "ball four" on a close pitch, as the last five strikeout victims went down swinging. :cool:

--fr, long-suffering Pirates fan (forgive the redundancy, forgive the redundancy)

[OTM Al]

Sad thing is that the new ballpark in Pittsburgh ranks number 1 with me of the new parks I've visited in the past couple years. The backdrop is just beautiful and you feel like you are right on top of the field.

[OTM Al]

hehehehe

Saturday is Victor Martinez bobble head day at Cleveland....

[rastajenk]

Sad thing is that the new ballpark in Pittsburgh ranks number 1 with me of the new parks I've visited in the past couple years. The backdrop is just beautiful and you feel like you are right on top of the field.For the last four years, I worked for the Reds as an usher in a section right inside the main gate, so I often was engaged in conversation by people who were new to the stadium, including lots of folks on cross country baseball vacations, or just had been to lots of different ones. And it seemed to be nearly unanimous that Pittsburgh is the best one out there right now. Even if they liked another one a lot for some reason, it usually was expressed as no better than a tie for favoritism with PNC.

[DanG]

hehehehe

Saturday is Victor Martinez bobble head day at Cleveland....
You can’t get more ironic; the fans favorite player next to Sizemore. In a town whose football stadium has a “dog pound”; I would wear helmets in the outfield if I’m playing.

2nd year in a row Boston gets the player the Rays targeted. The rich get richer and around and around it goes.

[melman]

Hey Dan, the "word" going around here in Philly is that our new GM Rueben Amaro Jr was just sighted giving back his ski mask after pulling off a heist in Cleveland. :jump: Not only a Cy Young award winner for the rotation but a strong righthanded hitter to spell Ibanez in the OF and do some pinch hitting. I like this Francisco guy already. When asked about being a pinch hitter he said he was already talking with "moon shot" Stairs and Greg Dobbs. :) In his first year as GM Amaro has made two moves, sign up Ibanez and get Lee, and Francisco. Two home runs a good way to start. :)

[melman]

I like PNC park also a very nice new ballpark, however for me it's only number two. Check out the SF Giants at AT#T Park. It is one beautiful park with a great setting next to the bay.

I would rank them like this.

1 AT#T Park for the giants
2 PNC Park for the pirates
3 Citizens Bank Park for the phils

* An "incomplete" grade for the two NY parks.

Al--What have you been hearing about the new Citi Field and Yankee Sta??
BTW I still think the Mets should call it Taxpayer Field. :confused:

[DanG]

Hey Dan, the "word" going around here in Philly is that our new GM Rueben Amaro Jr was just sighted giving back his ski mask after pulling off a heist in Cleveland. :jump: Not only a Cy Young award winner for the rotation but a strong righthanded hitter to spell Ibanez in the OF and do some pinch hitting. :)
It is a great run; no doubt Mel. Just letting Pat the bat walk may have been his best move. You should see this poor guys face when he squares it up and it’s on the track vs. a bomb in Philly. :faint:

In all fairness; the Cleveland situation can’t really be graded for years however. It wasn’t all that long ago I believe they got Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips etc for Colon. They made their run; took the final leap with free agent money and now its time to burn the hut and start over.

That’s among the major differences in the league right now. +- 5 teams can swing and miss on huge contracts and still recover enough to compete; where the other 25 need the perfect storm / or its back to square one.

Martinez virtually guarantees the Red Sox at least the wild card and the Rays would not part with Wade Davis. The Rangers may have made it interesting, but ESPN is reporting Halladay refused the trade to Texas.

BTW: Thanks for that ‘Scully’ link Falconridge; great stuff! :ThmbUp:

[OTM Al]

Al--What have you been hearing about the new Citi Field and Yankee Sta??
BTW I still think the Mets should call it Taxpayer Field. :confused:

I've been to Citi Field. Its much better than Shea, but I could say that about a few open cess pools, but it looks just like Washington and Philly (and the A ball Brooklyn team if you threw a couple more decks on it for that matter) in most ways. Not that that's bad, but there's nothing really unique about it. I have not made it to the new Stadium (note lack of coroporate sponsorship...) but it looks like a palace on TV. Didn't call it a stadium rather than field or park for no reason.

[OTM Al]

Just watched the Cincy-Cubs game as it was a chance to see the Cubbies. What a train wreck. Can either of these guys manage a pitching staff? That is a rhetorical question because the answer is no, but the award for the night has to go to Baker. Let your pitcher go too far (Harang is too good to have that record, even on a bad team) and then pull him and make the reliever give the free pass. Weathers isn't the greatest in the world but that clearly knocked him off stride. Got to figure half of Marmol's problems are caused by playing for Pinella though. Ugh.

[DanG]

Just watched the Cincy-Cubs game as it was a chance to see the Cubbies. What a train wreck. Can either of these guys manage a pitching staff? That is a rhetorical question because the answer is no, but the award for the night has to go to Baker. Got to figure half of Marmol's problems are caused by playing for Pinella though. Ugh.
You’re not kidding with Sweet Lou handling pitchers Al; or Baker for that matter.

Watching him down here I honestly came to the conclusion he flat out doesn’t like pitchers. I remember Chad Gaudin as a kid with the Rays getting a start and he pulled him in the 1st inning without a run being scored! :faint:

In Lou’s defense…the Rays owe him so much because he’s the first man who came down here and said this is unacceptable. I remember Ben Grieve struck out to end a game on a bad call and Lou asked him…”where was the pitch” and Ben answered…”It doesn’t matter”. Well; Lou went OFF on him right on camera and you saw a different Rays club shortly afterwards.

He is GREAT at evaluating hitters throughout your system and if the GM is willing to listen he will purge you of weak bats and weak wills. The flip side is your most likely to reenact The Caine Mutiny right down to the Capt. Queeg (Bogart) dialogue of the four ways of doing thing aboard ship…”The right way, the wrong way, the Navy way, and my way” / or in this case…Lou’s way. :D

BTW: People talk about ‘tells’ in poker…Lou has one when the team is playing well…he will adjust his cap 19,000 during the game. Cub fans…if he starts working that cap like a lunatic; get ready for a great finish to 2009.

A shot of Lou in the dugout last night...
http://i.cnn.net/v5cache/TCM/Images/Dynamic/i69/fredm2_400x300_080820081008.jpg

[cj's dad]

All were modeled after Camden Yards. Great place to watch a game.

I like PNC park also a very nice new ballpark, however for me it's only number two. Check out the SF Giants at AT#T Park. It is one beautiful park with a great setting next to the bay.

I would rank them like this.

1 AT#T Park for the giants
2 PNC Park for the pirates
3 Citizens Bank Park for the phils

* An "incomplete" grade for the two NY parks.

Al--What have you been hearing about the new Citi Field and Yankee Sta??
BTW I still think the Mets should call it Taxpayer Field. :confused:

[eastie]

sox / rays are in a sick game right now . rays just had em loaded with no outs in the 10th.....didn't score. this was after Pedroia hit into a DP withem jammed in the top of the 10th

[DanG]

sox / rays are in a sick game right now . rays just had em loaded with no outs in the 10th.....didn't score. this was after Pedroia hit into a DP withem jammed in the top of the 10th
Sick is the perfect word! :eek:

That’s the game my daughter decides to take me to for my birthday and I’m getting too old for 13 innings when a race day follows. :sleeping: :D

Looks like Longoria is just now starting to get back on stride and changing the lineup (Getting Upton out of lead off and sitting Pat the Bat) was long overdue.

Sox / Yank’s are still odds on for the playoff quinella and the thing about chasing teams is they only have to split head to head. You can win a dramatic game / lose the next and your right back to square one; only with less time on the clock.

Frustrating at times; but a great game if you weren’t wearing red.

BTW: From the reports I can’t believe how close the Bo-Sox were to getting Doc Halladay…a frightening prospect after seeing Lester last night. :faint:

BTW-II: Someone please tell the Orioles when they start bringing up their quality pitching talent don’t sit on them through the Boston series and wait for Detroit. Unleash them on your on the division leaders please! :)

[cj's dad]

Sick is the perfect word! :eek:

That’s the game my daughter decides to take me to for my birthday and I’m getting too old for 13 innings when a race day follows. :sleeping: :D

Looks like Longoria is just now starting to get back on stride and changing the lineup (Getting Upton out of lead off and sitting Pat the Bat) was long overdue.

Sox / Yank’s are still odds on for the playoff quinella and the thing about chasing teams is they only have to split head to head. You can win a dramatic game / lose the next and your right back to square one; only with less time on the clock.

Frustrating at times; but a great game if you weren’t wearing red.

BTW: From the reports I can’t believe how close the Bo-Sox were to getting Doc Halladay…a frightening prospect after seeing Lester last night. :faint:

BTW-II: Someone please tell the Orioles when they start bringing up their quality pitching talent don’t sit on them through the Boston series and wait for Detroit. Unleash them on your on the division leaders please! :)

The kid that pitched so well last night vs. the Tigers just came up the day before. He looks like the real deal. The other new guy Chris Tillman looked a bit overwhelmed in his first two starts, but I think he'll be fine.

[DanG]

The kid that pitched so well last night vs. the Tigers just came up the day before. He looks like the real deal. The other new guy Chris Tillman looked a bit overwhelmed in his first two starts, but I think he'll be fine.
Thanks;

If I’m an O’s fan I’m looking to unload Huff and / or Mora for more young talent. Assuming good health and management sticking to the current blueprint; +- 2011 looks like the Oriole fans will finally get back to competing like that great baseball town deserves.

[melman]

Dan--I don't remember the young man's name off hand but the Phils scouts say that the O's got a GREAT young prospect at 3rd base in the George Sherrill deal with the Dodgers. Mora has been quoted as saying the manager has "disrespected" him. Not a happy camper.

Cliff Lee's first start with the Phils---Three pitch strikeout of the leadoff hitter then two weak tappers to the mound. After seven innings Lee had more hits at the plate then he had allowed to the Giants. :) Four pitches all of which he had great control of. Nice addition to the staff. :jump:

[melman]

Dan--One other thing I have to bring up. Now that Cliff Lee is here it's great to have TWO pitchers who get the ball and throw it. Joltin' Joe Blanton is also a get the ball and throw it guy. So many pitchers today take so long to make a pitch. Worst of all time Steve Traschael. Fans could take a LONG nap between his pitches. :rolleyes:

[cj's dad]

At the risk of turning this into an O's thread:

1B- Huff will be traded - surprised he's still here - Luke Scott can play 1st
2B - Brian Roberts is solid
SS - Iztouris very good glove - average bat
3B- Mora has no power left- he's gone after beefing with Trembly-a class act.
RF- Markakis- Very good fielder - possibly best arm in the game and solid bat
CF- Adam Jones - Great fielder- average arm - great power and speed
LF- Rheimold- Good bat and solid in the field - developing young talent
C- Matt Wieters- will be behind the plate for a long time - solid
P- Guthrie is shell shocked- Hernandez looks the part as do the two new rooks Brian Matusz and Chris Tillman

It all depends if GM Andy Mc Phail can keep Peter Angelos and his two geeky sons from interfering- The boys think they are playing rotisserie baseball.

BTW- the 3rd baseman acquired in the Sherrill trade is Josh Bell- hope he's related to Buddy Bell!!

[OTM Al]

All baseball talk is welcome here and besides, I think I brought the O's up first anyway.

My thought for the day is that all that talk of trading Halladay seems to have messed him up. Still pitched a pretty strong game last night. For a minute there he looked to be doing a complete game in under 100 pitches, which is exceptional.

Oh, and the Mets have just set the record for most expensive train wreck of all time.

[DanG]

Dan--One other thing I have to bring up. Now that Cliff Lee is here it's great to have TWO pitchers who get the ball and throw it. Joltin' Joe Blanton is also a get the ball and throw it guy. So many pitchers today take so long to make a pitch. Worst of all time Steve Traschael. Fans could take a LONG nap between his pitches. :rolleyes:
How about your boy Happ Mel; nice situation with great defense behind you and Cole & Lee to learn from.

What don’t your Phillies do well?

Concerning slow workers on the mound and the speed of the game in general…

• I always thought a quick pitch type would have an edge in the modern game (ala Jim ‘Kitty’ Kaat) with all the deliberate workers around.

• Intentional walks…go to your mouth 4X on the mound instead of throwing a single pitch.

• Once a pitching coach / manager comes to the mound for a meeting…that’s it for the game unless they are making a switch.

• Once the coaches have a visit…the catcher can no longer call time and go to the hill that inning and NEVER more then once an inning.

• Just like the 24 second clock in basketball; a ‘pitch clock’ is used and if violated it’s a ball. Same principal for the hitter with a strike unless an injury (Met pitcher collapses :faint: ) or broken bat etc occurs.

It’s just a fact of life that every ten years our children’s attention span grows shorter. The video game / MTV mindset does not translate well to baseball and / or between race downtime in horseracing. Take a pre-teen to a baseball game and watch their mind have a space launch in between innings / or as you said even during the inning when a Traschael / Dice-K pitches.

The design of baseball is ingenious and even with all the enhancements in equipment and pharmaceutical BS the length of the bases; the distance of the mound and most park dimensions still make it the perfect game in terms of function and symmetry imo. (Yes; I’m biased)

Just a few tweaks to cut :30 minutes of down time and maybe that dramatic playoff game will be enjoyed in an eastern time zone instead of children (and some adults) watching the back of their eyelids. :eek: :sleeping:

[melman]

My one and most important idea for making the game more enjoyable is=========== :1:


RESTORE THE STRIKE ZONE


I think WAY to many of today's umpires have a postage stamp for a strike zone. That's when they have any kind of consistent strike zone at all. :) If your going to a game try and make sure that Jim Wolfe or CV Buckner is not doing ball and strike calls for that game. :jump: Not to be a complete negative guy on ump's the last two Phils games the ball and strike umps (Jerry Crawford-Phil Cuzzi) did a good job and called strikes. Bob Davidson also very solid behind the plate. When the hitters know that your going to have to swing and not wait around for the "perfect" pitch to hit the game will go faster. Dan talk about learning from Cole has many times mentioned that Jaime Moyer has taught him a great deal. When Moyer hangs them up I think he would make a great pitching coach. Enjoyed watching Moyer and Lee sitting next to each other in the dugout last night. It's a good situation for the Phils staff. Even Pedro is getting into the act. :jump:

[DanG]

Dan talk about learning from Cole has many times mentioned that Jaime Moyer has taught him a great deal. When Moyer hangs them up I think he would make a great pitching coach. Enjoyed watching Moyer and Lee sitting next to each other in the dugout last night. It's a good situation for the Phils staff.
Duh...:blush:

How could I forget Moyer Mel; of course...the perfect teacher.

[OTM Al]

Yanks-Red Sox on tap for tonight. Despite losing all 8 games against Boston, the Yanks are still 2 1/2 up (Thanks Tampa!!!) This will be my first chance to see the returned John Smoltz. I've heard it hasn't been too good of late...Bay seems to be out as well with a hammy pull. Sure hope it wasn't anything like what happened to the Mets picther yesterday. That was nasty. Why they even let him throw that ball is beyond me.

[DanG]

Sure hope it wasn't anything like what happened to the Mets picther yesterday. That was nasty. Why they even let him throw that ball is beyond me.
Good point Al; it wasn’t their trainers finest moment. :blush:

[OTM Al]

I'm just not sure that team can have a worse year at this point, but knowing the way the Mets have been going, I probably shouldn't say that. I just don't understand what this training staff is thinking. Last year it was putting Church on a plane with a concussion and then letting him try to come back way too soon. Frankly I think this is one of those organizations that the whole front office needs to be cleaned out and replaced and get them going in a new direction. Otherwise all Mets fans have to look forward to is more of the same. Baseball was "born" in NYC and last October was mighty empty around here. Don't like that too much.

[DanG]

There is the AL beast in a nutshell…it takes 28 innings and almost 10 hours to decide the top three teams! :eek:

[OTM Al]

Yanks opened the door wide for the Rays this weekend Dan. I called it a couple weeks ago when the Sox injuries started to mount that they will finish behind the Rays this year. Many games left but the Sox are in trouble if things remain the same. A couple key injuries though and the Yanks will come sliding back, its just that close. Things are never as good as they look when you are going good or as bad when you aren't.

This weekend was a mirror image of the earlier games, but this time it was Boston with the injuries.

Going to try to catch a little Tigers v. Sox on ESPN tonight. Sox needed another series with Baltimore (sorry cj and dad) not having to face starting pitchers at least as good as what they just saw.

Oh, and how bout them Nats?

[cj's dad]

Yanks opened the door wide for the Rays this weekend Dan. I called it a couple weeks ago when the Sox injuries started to mount that they will finish behind the Rays this year. Many games left but the Sox are in trouble if things remain the same. A couple key injuries though and the Yanks will come sliding back, its just that close. Things are never as good as they look when you are going good or as bad when you aren't.

This weekend was a mirror image of the earlier games, but this time it was Boston with the injuries.

Going to try to catch a little Tigers v. Sox on ESPN tonight. Sox needed another series with Baltimore (sorry cj and dad) not having to face starting pitchers at least as good as what they just saw.

Oh, and how bout them Nats?

Has to be the worst stadium in baseball- infested with rats; the 4 legged kind.

If you ever are in DC and have the opportunity to attend - DON'T !!

BTW- #2 worst stadium - Fenway Park - el dumpo !!

[DanG]

Yanks opened the door wide for the Rays this weekend Dan. I called it a couple weeks ago when the Sox injuries started to mount that they will finish behind the Rays this year. Many games left but the Sox are in trouble if things remain the same. A couple key injuries though and the Yanks will come sliding back, its just that close. Things are never as good as they look when you are going good or as bad when you aren't.

This weekend was a mirror image of the earlier games, but this time it was Boston with the injuries.

Going to try to catch a little Tigers v. Sox on ESPN tonight. Sox needed another series with Baltimore (sorry cj and dad) not having to face starting pitchers at least as good as what they just saw.

Oh, and how bout them Nats?
I love the city of Boston (the team…so-so :D ) but I would lying if I said I didn’t love that Al…thank you New York! :ThmbUp:

We did see a classic example of how tough it is to keep the Uber-Powers down in baseball. The prime free agents were on display all through the series and the waiver rumors are running rampant that Boston is looking to add major weapons. Last year I think there were as many (or more) deals done after the so-called deadline.

Please keep that edge for 6 more with Boston and three in NY with a very tough Texas team.

BTW: Obviously the heavy artillery the Yankees bought is the key, but Swisher has really added a needed dimension to that locker room. I know we disagree on the element of team chemistry Al, but NY was tighter then Joan Rivers face last year imo. :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW: Obviously the heavy artillery the Yankees bought is the key, but Swisher has really added a needed dimension to that locker room. I know we disagree on the element of team chemistry Al, but NY was tighter then Joan Rivers face last year imo. :eek:It seemed that way more so in the beginning to this observer. Lately, it seems to me that Swisher has really toned it down a lot...as if someone got to him and told him animated Yankees aren't the tradition (tell that to Joba!)...he almost seems like a guy who wonders quite where he fits these days...

This is all gut feeling by the way on my end....:lol:

[OTM Al]

Last year for the Yanks had nothing to do with "chemistry". It had everything to do with two starters who got zero wins between them. Winning makes chemistry and lack of winning makes it lack. Winning makes the game fun, losing makes it a job. I can almost buy chemistry in football, because you have to work as a team on every play, but if the players aren't any good it doesn't matter much there either. Chemistry is just one of those classic sports radio things to talk about on a slow day.

[OTM Al]

Has to be the worst stadium in baseball- infested with rats; the 4 legged kind.

If you ever are in DC and have the opportunity to attend - DON'T !!

BTW- #2 worst stadium - Fenway Park - el dumpo !!

Washington was clean and new when I went there last year, though there was nothing special about it. Fenway is what it is. They can't get rid of it and it's too old to do much more to. I went to go there and see it, but not excited to ever go back.

[DanG]

It seemed that way more so in the beginning to this observer. Lately, it seems to me that Swisher has really toned it down a lot...as if someone got to him and told him animated Yankees aren't the tradition (tell that to Joba!)...he almost seems like a guy who wonders quite where he fits these days...

This is all gut feeling by the way on my end....:lol:
I’m sure that’s right. With their current record it’s easy to forget their state of mind early in the year, but they were a pretty fragile team at one point and I think he really helped get them through it.

Al; we agree to disagree on the makeup of organizations…but we both knew that already. :)

BTW: A note to anyone playing fantasy baseball out there…I don’t know how the leagues work, but if you have B.J Upton on your squad…cut him or at best send him to Siberia. He has completely quit :ThmbDown: since being dropped in the lineup and will be traded in the off season.

[melman]

I'm not much for chemistry or for a "great manager" as important factors. I can see those items as somewhat a minor item. By far I believe that in baseball the biggest factor is pitching. Ask any member of the Phils from last year and they will tell you that from mid-August thru the end of the playoffs the Phils pitching just performed very very well. Hamels was a true "ace" and Myers and Blanton both performed like strong number two pitchers. The bullpen last year was unreal as the Phils when leading after 7 innings last year were 79-0. Lidge had a "dream season" going 47-47 in save chances. Strong pitching is even more important in playoff games. I say this as a follower of the Phils who have a very strong top to bottom offensive lineup. Another item that I do not think is given enough credit is team defense. The Phils have been at the top in fewest errors commited the last two years. Back to the "manager factor" for a minute. I love how when Chuckie Manuel when he first got here was called "Charlie from Mayberry" and "Good Time Charlie" by the media. As Manuel loves to point out he got a lot smarter the last two years and gives nothing but credit to his players.

[OTM Al]

Watched Cubs-Phils last night. Figured Pedro was just on the cusp of getting ripped, but that 12-1 lead the Phils took pretty much ruled that out. I thought they should have moved someone to the bullpen that could pitch out of there. Moyer is a wasted roster spot at the moment and he has the most wins of the starters on the team, or so the announcers told us. Sadly, I think his days in the game have just been ended by a guy who should have hung it up already.

[melman]

Al, I was impressed with Pedro's effort last night. Not bad for a guy just coming back to the bigs with four minor league efforts. He threw 99 pitches in five innings last night and I think that is something for him to build on. The most impressive thing about him was his throwing many a fastball over 90 mph. The last couple of years in New York he never got near that velocity. Let's see how he does the next few starts. As for Moyer I agree with you Al but the Phils are thinking that with there heavy Sept schedule (which includes a few make up doubleheaders) he can be used as a spot starter. A tough call for a respected member of the team. There is no way however that I can see Moyer on the postseason roster.

[OTM Al]

I don't know melman. Phils got a win, but it had more to do with the opposition than the pitcher. Cubs just missed on that one Victorino got the beer shower on which would have changed the whole complexion of the game. My impression was more "survived" rather than "impressed". He has some velocity on those fast balls but his location is bad, which is what happens to older pitchers. Be glad for the 1 win and don't hope for much more.

[eastie]

as a sox fan, I have no beef with Pedro. He gave his heart and soul to the Red Sox while he was here, and brought us the World Series win that we needed. I would doubt if the Pedro of old is the same one who is on the Phillies now. Without the juice, it will be very tough for him to pitch competitively at this point.

[melman]

DanG--How ya like my boy J Happ last night? Had some control problems yet still he goes another start with plus seven innings pitched. I like Happ and Cliff Lee better than just Roy Halliday. :) Thank You GM Rueben Amaro Jr.
Ryan Howard during the Atlanta series gets the game winning HR off a tough ATL closer, then last night two dingers of a very tough ATL starter. The second HR a 3 run blast. Yes Howard strikes out a lot and yes he has a poor on base percentage but-----I'm glad he's on my team. :jump:

[DanG]

DanG--How ya like my boy J Happ last night? Had some control problems yet still he goes another start with plus seven innings pitched. I like Happ and Cliff Lee better than just Roy Halliday. :) Thank You GM Rueben Amaro Jr.

Just a deep team you have Mel.

I’ll respectfully reserve judgment on Happ until this time next year. Any team would obviously love to have him, but when the hitters have had a chance to digest his stuff over the winter it will be interesting how well he does. It will be his first 200+ inning load of his life and that has an interesting effect on many 20 something players. Also; how will he handle his first stint with adversity that is inevitable at some point.

In his favor is where he will be slotted in that rotation, a great defense and his demeanor under pressure so far is first class.

[melman]

OTM Al--The "Pedro Event Show" continues tonight. Pedro told the media that he had to sit for a long time while the Phils scored all those runs in the top of the 4th inning and he was "tired" when he came back out. I'm not looking for the "Cy Yonng" Pedro of old but it was good to see him with his major league fastball back. If he can give the Phils six solid innings the rest of the way then bringing him back I think will be a sucess.

[OTM Al]

We'll see how he does. He's got one more win so far this season than I expected, so he's already doing better than I thought. Finally get to see a game or two tonight. Only have local cable up at Saratoga and boy has it been bad! I want that Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggeee guy to die. NL is really starting to get interesting and should be fun all the way through September. Don't expect near as much juice from the AL down the stretch this year.

[melman]

OTM Al--I think the AL wild card will be interesting. Texas, Boston, and Tampa all in the running. Always knew Texas could hit the long ball and score runs but there young pitching has surprised me and they look to be in it to the end. Did you see Mets/Braves last night? Lots of very angry NY fans (and who can blame them) early in the game Braves have runners at first and third with less than two outs. Everyone looking for a double play ball. Everyone but the Mets 2nd baseman that is. :) Braves hitter puts a hard ground ball to short looks like a "sure double play" but the Mets shortstop turns to throw the ball the 2nd and there is NO ONE there. Seems Mr Luis Castillo "took the play off". :faint:

DanG--Over the last ten days it seems "Pat the Bat" has got some power back. He had yet another dinger last night. Hope he gets on one of his six week hot streaks.

How about this for Cliff Lee's last four starts for the Phils since the trade.

Innings Pitched 33
Strikeouts 34
Walks 3
Hits allowed 18
ERA 0.82

Plus in the NL a pitcher has to hit so Lee is hitting at a 385 avg. :)

Manager Charlie Manuel "I might have to move him up in the batting order" :jump: ;) ;)

[slewis]

Nice to see my hapless Cubs finally give Rich Harden some run support last night.

Guy's pitched great his last 6 or 7 outs with NO support.

One of MANY problems with the Cubbies this yr.... they score either 7 runs plus, or 1 or 2....

And there are a LOT more 1 or 2 run games than 7 and 8.

I said back in June they wont make the playoffs.

Phils are proving they are the best team in baseball.

[OTM Al]

melman - I just have trouble believing in Texas. I still feel they will fall out sometime soon. I really though that Tampa would go right by Boston, but they are hanging like a cheap claimer. Don't like them this year, but maybe Boston will hang on, that is if they can win 2 of 3 this weekend.....

Back page of the Daily News today regarding the Mets "Only 42 games left" Ouch

Slewis - Philly looks good to be sure but it just stretches the imagination that a team from Philadelphia can win one, let alone a back to back! I have to believe the AL takes it back this year. Dodgers this year are better than any NL team they faced last year, so it will be tough to get back. Don't know what this Giants team is either, but that would be a very salty first round matchup with Lincecum and Cain.

[slewis]

melman - I just have trouble believing in Texas. I still feel they will fall out sometime soon. I really though that Tampa would go right by Boston, but they are hanging like a cheap claimer. Don't like them this year, but maybe Boston will hang on, that is if they can win 2 of 3 this weekend.....

Back page of the Daily News today regarding the Mets "Only 42 games left" Ouch

Slewis - Philly looks good to be sure but it just stretches the imagination that a team from Philadelphia can win one, let alone a back to back! I have to believe the AL takes it back this year. Dodgers this year are better than any NL team they faced last year, so it will be tough to get back. Don't know what this Giants team is either, but that would be a very salty first round matchup with Lincecum and Cain.

Phils - Giants???


Come on now'..... Phillies staff has now been solidified.. it's not great but it's GOOD.... and when their bats start rollin they are real tough.

Im not sold on the Yanks with that staff... and we all know good P beats good h....

So who else are we talkking about in the AL??? Halos?? Tigers?...

The next thing is that I dont really believe we've seen the Phillies best baseball yet... They've got new players and they need the next 3 weeks to really jell as a complete team.

[OTM Al]

Not saying the Phils aren't the most likely to make it, because they are. Only point here is that the road is much tougher than it was last year and being the current champ paints a big target on your back. A 5 game series having to face Lincecum and Cain if the Giants win the WC is a rough way to start.

[PeteKoch]

DanG--How ya like my boy J Happ last night? Had some control problems yet still he goes another start with plus seven innings pitched. I like Happ and Cliff Lee better than just Roy Halliday. :) Thank You GM Rueben Amaro Jr.


Three weeks ago, I wouldn't have agreed with that sentiment, but now? Whew!
Lee has been near perfect, the league hasn't figured out Happ (as I thought they might), and Blanton is showing why Billy Beane loved him. All of a sudden, Hamels is looking like #4 in that rotation.

Meanwhile, Halladay sure doesn't look like the pitcher who appeared on his way to 25 wins early in the season.

[PeteKoch]

Not saying the Phils aren't the most likely to make it, because they are. Only point here is that the road is much tougher than it was last year and being the current champ paints a big target on your back. A 5 game series having to face Lincecum and Cain if the Giants win the WC is a rough way to start.

The Philz got a little lucky with whom they faced last year: Brewers, Dodgers and Rays. I'm a fan and they were probably destined anyway, but the road could have been a lot tougher. I was really afraid of the Cubs, who fizzled big time.

I fear the Giants, too, especially after the way they shut down the Philz in that last road trip. But I still think Lincecum's shoulder or elbow could fall off at any time.

[DanG]

I really though that Tampa would go right by Boston, but they are hanging like a cheap claimer.
All right Al; give the Pinstripes a lead for a change and it’s a cheap shot from the Bronx! :D

The reigning AL champions play .601% baseball since May 29th in the toughest division with injuries…I’ll take a barn full of those ‘cheap claimers’.

BTW: Thanks for last night and please keep winning them all except for a certain 7 games.

[DanG]

DanG--Over the last ten days it seems "Pat the Bat" has got some power back. He had yet another dinger last night. Hope he gets on one of his six week hot streaks.

Plus in the NL a pitcher has to hit so Lee is hitting at a 385 avg. :)

I certainly hope so Mel; but he can’t sustain anything. He will have a good AB and then say he feels it again and then last night he was completely lost. The timing of his hits are also very misleading; he is FAR more dangerous in an 8-1 game then with a tie score. He has also made it very tough on Pena who gets pitched very tough with Pat on deck. The guy can’t be healthy, but he does take BP like a madman; so you can’t say he isn’t working at it.

Lee is murder regardless of where he pitched, but getting him in the NL is such a smart move. If I’m a NL GM; I would view AL pitchers very different then the usual league to league “variants” does. Besides no DH and from top to bottom a weaker offensive league just putting a bat in some player’s hands makes them feel part of the action again.

Perfect example imo is Dontrelle Willis. He doesn’t ‘like to hit…he LOVES to hit. Some NL team will get him literally off the scrap heap and he will have a career revival in a few years.

It’s also tough to quantify what taking a player from 20+ games out to a 1st place world champion does. Even a 38yo guy like Zaun for the Rays has been a real boost since he came in.

[eastie]

The sox yankees rivalry has really run it's course. They play the most boring 41/2 - 5 hour games i have ever seen. The yankees take so many pitches, and the sox too, that the games are torture. When dice k comes back, things could really get ugly. He makes Mike Boddicker look like Jim Kaan. Sox Rays play cool exciting games.

[OTM Al]

Can it get worse for the Mets? Evidently the answer is yes. Yesterday they hit into a game ending triple play and today Santana is going to the doctor for discomfort in his arm.

AL East is over. AL Wildcard has just begun. Should be good. My pick, Tampa edging Texas with the Saux fading late.

Cliff Lee for NL Cy Young......

[Marshall Bennett]

I would expect Texas pitching to fall apart down the stretch , as they were expected to do all along . :)

[eastie]

Texas will wear down because of the heat...it takes a toll over the course of the season.

[DanG]

I agree on the length of games Eastie; good luck holding a modern kids attention for a 5 hour regular season (9 inning!) game. :eek:

Given the way the schedules play out…getting two starters back / strengthening the pen with Penny who is far better once through the lineup; I would make Boston 3/5 to get the wild card. Lester and the last couple aside Beckett just doesn't allow Boston significant losing streaks and Tampa’s remaining schedule has by far the best winning %.

By Sept-13th the picture should be very clear for Tampa.

Aug-28th – Sept-13th…

• 4 @ Tigers (who is 40-20 at home)
• 3 vs. Red Sox
• 3 vs. Tigers
• 4 @ Yankees (Starting with an II header and their 41-18 at home)
• Off day…
• 3 vs. Boston

BTW-I: The scheduling btw is just bizarre. Tampa plays 12 at Texas & Seattle and only 5 at home? I know they claim it’s inevitable because of inter-league play, but why do I think if the MLB office put down their crack pipe and brought in a 12yo they could figure out more balance.

BTW-II: Hats off to Nolan Ryan who is doing a GREAT job getting the underrated (imo) Texas pitching in order. By most accounts their minor league system is rated #1 and Texas will be a force for years to come.

BTW-III: How much is Lee loved in Philly Mel? Whatever the metric GM’s use for the AL / NL league conversion…it’s not enough. Take that and add the world champion’s great defense and you have created a MONSTER!
http://samson-power.com/strongest-man-alive/images/DSC_6481_Fanatic_Magnus.jpg

[melman]

DanG---In Lee's last home start when he came to the plate in the bottom of the 8th the standing "O" roar was unreal. Lee told the media after the game "I had goose bumps and I'm a veteran who does not get goose bumps". :) They are writing articles comparing him to "Lefty" the great Steve Carlton already. He his really on a roll. Five starts with the Phils and an 0.68 ERA over the five starts. The guys in the field have told the media they love his style of pitching which is "get the ball and throw it". No long delays between pitches. Even with runners on base. Not that there have been many runners on base. :) Dan for the topper yesterday he even picked a guy off. :jump:

[melman]

Dan Phils manager Chuckie Manuel calls Ryan Howard his "Big Piece" and is it any wonder why? Howard's last 11 games-----8 dingers and 22 ribbies. Howard loves to hit in Aug and Sept. Right when u need him the most. :)

[Marshall Bennett]

I watched the Yankee/Ranger game last night and for the first time saw Neftali Feliz pitch for the Rangers . He was clocked at 101 mph on three occasions and struck out ARod with ease . He's a relief pitcher that debuted earlier this month . In 16 innings has allowed only 5 hits , striking out 21 in 9 games . I was totally impressed , certainly one to watch in the future . He throws incredibly hard . Brings back memories of J.R. Richard though he's much much smaller .

[eastie]

How could J.R. Richard have a stroke at his age....that was a heartbreaking thing to see.

[Marshall Bennett]

How could J.R. Richard have a stroke at his age....that was a heartbreaking thing to see.
Heartbreaking indeed . I feel had he stayed healthy his lifetime stats would have been outstanding . Hitters feared him immencely . I remember hearing comments from hitters that his sheer size had him in their face when he released the ball , often at over 100 mph . Yeah , what a loss of talent . I loved to watch him pitch .

[DanG]

I watched the Yankee/Ranger game last night and for the first time saw Neftali Feliz pitch for the Rangers .I was totally impressed , certainly one to watch in the future .

No doubt the kid has talent MB. He wasn’t clocking quite that high in the Rays series, but he showed real command and a Pedro like breaking ball and change. I see Texas is using the “Joba” rules and limiting his appearances, but the Rangers future (and current team) is clearly strong.

BTW: A big no thanks to the Mets for giving Boston more bullpen fire-power. A handful of teams should build a monument to Curt Flood in their outfields as a tribute to the mercenary system a few teams exploit.

Among the insanity in the system is if you “rent” a class-A free agent; you get compensated with choice draft picks if / and when they walk. The same ‘draft’ system that is the only real chance the ham ‘n eggers have to level the playing field is actually used to further strengthen the big market teams…BRILLIANT! :faint:

[OTM Al]

How could J.R. Richard have a stroke at his age....that was a heartbreaking thing to see.

I believe there was some abuse of drugs involved there, but no ne deserves what a stroke does to you.