Has anyone learned anything from this board?

[Amazin]

Well?Obviously I noticed no one on "other" sections of this board has learned anything.So I thought I'd see if some"other" members of this board have learned anything from this board in regards to handicapping that has made an impact on you leading to a significant improvement in your skillsLet the wise speak at last.Amen.

[formula_2002]

Amazin

I came on board knowing everything. So the more I know the less I learn. ;)

[lousycapper]

Originally posted by Amazin
Well?Obviously I noticed no one on "other" sections of this board has learned anything.So I thought I'd see if some"other" members of this board have learned anything from this board in regards to handicapping that has made an impact on you leading to a significant improvement in your skillsLet the wise speak at last.Amen.

=============================

I have learned to trust my own judgement rather than sucumb to the influence of other people's opinions without due diligence.

-L.C.

[PaceAdvantage]

Not sure this board was ever touted as a teaching board....just a place to share stories, suggestions, and opinions, of which Amazin is full of many.

[Kentucky Bred]

From this board I learned the most important handicapping thing ever in over 25 years of watching horses run around a track. I learned that there are some real sharp horseplayers out there and many of them have learned how to beat this game. Not every day but often enough.

Knowing this was a revelation from the days of hanging out at Santa Anita. I didn't see too many winners there. The Internet and in particular this site with our above average clientel was the vehicle. In a sense it gave me the confidence to begin to put together my own way and testing and recording my plays.

Over the last 12 months represents the first time in my life that I can honestly say I have overcome the exhorbitant juice and taxes we must endure, and become an unqualified winner. Of that, I am a bit proud but not arrogant. I thank all of you for that.

I will leave the more specific type answers to others, but to me this means much more.

Kentucky Bred

[Amazin]

Pa Quote

"Not sure this board was ever touted as a teaching board....just a place to share stories, suggestions, and opinions, of which Amazin is full of many."

True,but you can learn things from stories,suggestions and opinions.For all those who can't think of a thing they've learned,I have one.It's from the PA contest that recently concluded.The first week,I was so impressed with Thorotech's performance,I was drawn to their site.Until the next week.Flop.Then I saw sal@netcapper perform even more unbelievably.Drawn to the website.Next week Flop.No disrespect intended,but anyone can be a star for a day in this game.Next day,they suck.

Lesson learned:If you use a means that makes you a star one day,stick with it.It will eventually cycle back to you.NOTHING works all the time.Have confidence in it,sort of like flippin a coin.You know eventually it's going to hit on your side.I can see the geniuses saying,this guy thinks he's telling me something I don't know.Well how many times have you zigged when you should have zaaged and vice-versa.Chaos is the NATURE of this game.It's integral to sucess and failure to be aware of it and not get frustrated by it.The lesson I learned was that sticking with a plan in a somewhat rigid way,is a more tactically profitable approach to this chaos than I thought.This requires a personal detachment from your own opinion to stick with the course of action.Of course when you score it should make up for your losses and more.

[JustRalph]

I have learned how to play NY and the Northeast from a few guys here. You know who you are.........

I would have never had any exposure to the info these guys have brought me. It's all good.........

[kenwoodall]

I have learned to keep an open mind and that if I open websites and other research material I can open up more possibilities!

[Dick Schmidt]

Amazin,

You wrote: "Well how many times have you zigged when you should have zaaged and vice-versa.Chaos is the NATURE of this game.It's integral to sucess and failure to be aware of it and not get frustrated by it."

You really are fond of making great generalizations of what you have observed and presenting them as absolute facts. Given your fondness for absolutes, I'll bet you're a conservative, rock-ribbed Republican, right?

Well, maybe not. Anyway, racing is as far from chaos as any non-deterministic system can be. If racing were chaotic, it would be easy to win using nothing but good money management. In fact, zigging and zaging would be an optimal way to bet. The reason racing is hard to beat is because it is EXTREMELY well ordered. At every track in the country, from the bull rings that run 5 days a year to the big time racing palaces, favorites win more than second favorites, who win more than third favorites etc. etc. It is precisely this predictability that makes the races so hard to beat. It turns out that the horses with the best chance of winning pay the least. Everywhere! In England, in Europe, Hong Kong, Japan, everywhere you look, favorites are winning more races than second favorites, who win more than . . .

In a truly chaotic event, any contestant paying more than the number of contestants is an overlay. Like in a 10 horse field, any horse over 10 to 1 would be an overlay. The optimum way to bet in this situation is to always select the longest shot on the board and collect big. As anyone who has tried this knows, this is not how racing works.

The way to win at the races (which CAN be done on a consistent basis over a long period of time by the way) is to find those events where the betting public has made a mistake and then exploit that mistake. If the public is correct, then bet the favorite, cause the favorite is gonna win a LOT of races. If we could induce a bit more chaos in racing, say the favorites only winning 10 or 15%, then the game would become ever so much easier. Until then it will remain difficult because you are trying to find mistakes in a well ordered system, always a rough go.

Dick

[Suff]

I'm not sure I want to get tied up in any argumentitive thread.... So I hope the intention is pure. To mention what we might learn from one another.

Honestly.. I would say. I'm almost twice the Horseplayer I was 18 months ago as a result of this board. And thats quite a statement considering I've been going to the track for 20 solid years and 30 if you count me tagging along with Dad as a teenager.

Thats come from for four main areas.

1. The Threads I read

I read every thread. Nothing gets by me. I find the threads on Par, pace and speed figures particulary helpful. The Information on Pedigree and breeeding have contributed to some serious scores this year.


2. The Warroom

If you sit in a Smoke filled room....You'll come out smelling like smoke. If You sit in a room with above average Horse Players and you watch what they say, and who they play and why...You improve. I get pointed to Horses, Trainers, Owners and angles that I would never sniff out. And its not just about people "giving" you a horse. Its about working a Racing form for Hidden Value , and finding the infromation that Changes the way you look at the race. And if you think I have a reputation for sniffing out live longshots.....You outta come in and see the Horses That teeitup sniffs out day after day in there. I've never seen anyone get more LIVE RUNS out of 15-1 shots than that guy.

3. E-Mail Network

I get 5-15 e-mails a day from Guys out here. Everything from barn Notes, to Trip Notes, to Morning workouts. Race Breakdowns, Opinions on Particular Trainers and Horses. Track specific angles. I'm constantly trading notes with other players. Its fun and its profitable.

4. Telephone

I spend at least an hour a week on the telephone with Friends I've made on the board. I spent over 2 hours on the Phone with one guy last week. We covered everything from Japan and Hong Kong to Beluah Park. I mean I was so Full of Horse,, I was hungry for a bucket of Oats when I hung up the Phone. I Talk Horses with a lot of guys from the Board. Makes me a better Player.

Like I said,,,,I'm Twice the player I was.

[formula_2002]

Amazin

What you described is called "regression to the mean".

Of course, depending on your day, it could be called "accent to the mean".

Any one factor (stock) or group of factors(stocks) have their high, lows, trends up and trends down.


The more factors (stocks) , the longer the time period, the more the data, the firmer the mean.

I dont MEAN to carry on, but enjoy the game to the extent that you can afford to lose.


ps. just in this one post you should have learned a lot.

[Doug]

AMAZIN,

I have learned that you are an idiot little bug that won't go away.

Doug

[hurrikane]

What a thread. I don't see any way this thread will not become a shit throwing contest between Amazin and who ever will tickle him.

What I've learned....

The affirmations of beliefs

1. Everyone has an opinion. Just like a**holes. No one up here is afraid to go down fighting for their opinion. That I respect.
The opinions I listen and then filter.

2. Ego. I never realized how much of this game is ego. You have to have the cahoonas (sp) to step up to the plate and pull out the money clip. Not sure how many here really do that but I have an idea.

3. There are many different ways to beat this game. Find something that works for you and don't look back. Don't put on blinkers..but don't look back.


Learned....

I couldn't quaify all I've learned from this board. But I know I am a much better player and bettor than I was.

I would like to thank GR1. When I first came here 2 yrs ago he turned me onto HTR. I've been with them since. I'm not saying they are the best but they are the best for my style of play. I will say I have never been involved professionally with a better bunch of horse players and people in my life.

I would also like to thank PA. How you put up with half this shit I'll never understand. You are a class act my friend.

[Amazin]

Dick

No I am not a Republican,how did you guess?I get your point about the orderliness of horseracing in that the 1st choice wins more than the 2nd choice,etc.But your analysis is a bit simplistic.The fact that 95% of horseplayers statistically go home losers day in and day out is attributed imo to the Chaos factor. There are many things I can throw into the chaos pot that have nothing to do with handicapping skills like looking for overlays.Factors that are even unpercievable to the owners or trainers.Factors such as bad trips,bad breaks from the gate,a not so percievable track bias,an unexpectedly fast or slow pace,an experimental equipment change causing an improvement or deteriotion in performance,how a horse will like a new surface or track,horses not feeling in the mood to run for one reason or another,a new distance ,will he bounce or not,a new jock on a horse good or bad?These are just a few that have no definite answer in alot of cases(not all).Your guess one day on one of these factors may be right and next may be wrong due to other possibly impercievable factors that have co-mingled in the dynamic chaos pot.

I look at it like a tornado.It will come and take those unsuspecting 95%horseplayers and turn them into losers.Unless you have premeditated these tornadoes(naturally occuring chaotic events)with a solid handicapping foundation you wont have a chance.Yes there are those nice sunny days when everything goes right,but sure as there are Republicans and Democrats,there are tornadoes and there is chaos in the universe and in horseracing.The chaos factor may be smaller percentage wise to the orderly factor you descibe.But when it occurs,it does far more damage to most horseplayers.

Doug:
I forgot to mention that I learned something else.Your attitude.I learned it so well that I bet that you would respond the way you did.Odds were 1-9.You were a huge favorite.Congrats,you paid crap.

[ponyplayer]

I too have learned about playing East Coast tracks, trainers, biases, etc. A few posts here have given me another thing to look at in my own personal handicapping, we all have our own, nothing wrong with trying to improve it...I think that's what this board and the war room is all about. :cool:

[dav4463]

I learned as much from this board as I have from half a dozen handicapping books. The more you read, the more you learn. You just have to ignore the stuff that doesn't apply to you. The "others" section was quite entertaining as well. I showed some of the anti-American sentiment to some friends during the war so we could better understand how that group of people felt. We still can't figure them out....oh well !

[andicap]

Well, the basis for how I play today, I learned on this board, so you can't get any better than that.
I'm always picking up little hints from the excellent handicappers on this board -- ideas to note and research a bit later (yeah, when I retired.)

I've probably learned as much from this board as many of the books I've read.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Many of the people who post here could write more informative and helpful books that 90% of the "experts" out there who write.

[Fastracehorse]

I know the Dewsweeper well and yes you are right:

The man knows how to hit hole-in-ones with the hosses.

fffastt

[Fastracehorse]

Profile of a horse player:

Above average intelligence - dysfunctionally competitive - huuuuuuuuuge ego.

fffastt

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Tee]

I would first like to thank Suff and Fast for their kind words.

IMHO this is the most civil of the horse racing message boards that I have been a part of over the years. I enjoy discussing the races in the war-room & the message boards without too much bravado floating around.

People are themselvers here, not logging on with a different username all the time trying to stir up trouble or someone always telling everyone how much greater a handicapper/money maker he/she is than the rest of us.

Kudos to PA for giving us this environment to exchange ideas, opinions & to further our horse racing/handicapping knowledge.

[Tee]

Nice to personally know someone who posts here as well.

[cj]

Originally posted by teeitup
Nice to personally know someone who posts here as well.

Not sure I'd tell to many people about that :)

BTW, who is the horse in the avatar?

CJ

[Whitehos]

Before the internnet and this board I made money on horse wagers. Since the internet and the discovery of this board and the people who contribute to it I have greatly improved profit margin. I read what other people are doing. I try it but it dosen't work for me except there might be this little part that might work, and I adopt it. I never understood pace since I was a speed freak. Now I know pace is speed. I was pencil and paper handicapper and could not understand program handicapping. I still use the pencil to copy the numbers from my program results.
Otherwise this board is of no value............unless you play horses.

[Fastracehorse]

Do you always bet da grey 'uns??

:) :) :)

fffastt

[Speed Figure]

Whitehos, What program is it?

[Tee]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Not sure I'd tell to many people about that :)

BTW, who is the horse in the avatar?

CJ

Ocean Terrace, I might shop around for another one now that he is retired.

[Speed Figure]

I Don't know what i would do without this board. I love coming on here and reading all the new topics on the board. There are a lot of cool guys on this board and some not so cool guys. :mad:

I have learned a lot about handicapping software that i knew nothing about. I have a lot of friends that know nothing about horse racing and they don't care to know.

You guys are like my unseen friends if i have a question someone comes up with a good answer that help's me out. Thanks Guys!:cool:

[Whitehos]

Hey Fastracehorse check the IV on grey horses. I can't pass unless there are 2 or more in a race.

Speedfigure, what works for on may not work for another. Parts of Multi Caps works for me.

[freeneasy]

tell you what, like the man said, anybody can express just about anything they want on this board, get positive and negitive feedback and come away a little better because of it. You might come away finding a little more encouragement, a little more confidence, and a few more answers. Got some guys that can crank out some pretty good humor for whatever aels ya. Got some pros on the board, got the old guys that go way back when, got a whole lot of smart thinkers, got some of those sharp shooter spot players, guys that know where the money is and where the wire is, as well as a lot of other guys looking down that same tough road, and to top it all off we even got some girls to boot, too. I really cant think of anything we dont have on this board. And thats why I enjoy it here, I enjoy everything about this board, I like the people and I like their style. But up until a few days ago, I would have considered it a pleasure to meet you but after the comment you made concerning the prizes being given to the winners of PAs intra board contest as, in my conviced opinion, insulting, and well its probably not my place to say this, and I apoligize if this is awkward for PA, but I dont let nobody, nobody, push my friends around, I dont care who you are or who you think you are,
but until I see an apology, I'll tell you the one thing I've learned from this board az, and that is this,
Everytime you open your mouth to speak, you just take another drop in class.
And here you are, and all your trying to do is to start a real nice thread like this and to have someone like me come along and start runnin you down at the mouth.
Doesnt feel to good, does it.
And you know what PA, I feel you are are owed an apology for those remarks,
so I apologize for the unwarrented remarks made to you concerning the marvelous efforts made in putting this absolutely wonderful program together.
And I say its only going to get even better, and that your sites going to well lead the way to bigger and better things not only for us but for all the other sites now and all the other sites that follow. Hey, we might even get so popular that we even get a Stake race named after us. THE GR 1 PA HANDICAP. :D

[Larry Hamilton]

What I have learned is that if you demonstrate an intelligence quotient of 35 in one forum, when you move to another forum/thread you bring than number with you. Similarly, if you prove yourself to be an illogical, unreasonable trouble maker in one forum/thread, when you change forums/threads, you still are!

Turning the "ignore" button on won't work with my browser unless I sign in.

However, I take solace in the fact that these two guys use that same brain to gamble with. I just hope they have good jobs or retirement funds.

[Amazin]

Andicap

You say the basis of your play today is from this board.Can you elaborate on that.

Freeneasy

I don't think you digested the entire content of the "Bris online "thread.I feel there was closure in that thread between me and PA.I think if Pa still had issues about that thread,he is mature enough and certainly capable to respond himself.

[Fastracehorse]

I hear the IV for greys is good in the jiggy jogs too ( harness ).

fffastt

[Fastracehorse]

........when you said something to the effect of: 'You saw one board make a nice hit one weekand then suck the next week'.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well: Welcome to the game called horse racing boy!

fffastt

[Amazin]

Fast:

How about I put it this way:Racently I finished 18th in the Bris online contest only $4.00 out of the top 10 and prize eligibility and the next time I sucked.Does that make you feel better?I don't have an ego about it.If you don't suck some times at the track,then your lying.

[Fastracehorse]

<Does that make you feel better?

Not really - that wasn't my point.

That doesn't surprise me that you sucked - lol.

:) :) :) :)

What I was getting at was your comment about the 2 other boards.

It seems like you already understand my point.

Of course I suck, on a regular basis - but can I make a profit??

That wasn't a rhetorical question.

fffastt

[kenwoodall]

Congrats A! I would do bad in contests!!