If you could only do one...

[magwell]

You can bet on synthetics at 10 % take across the board, Or on dirt at the current takes which way would you go and why ?

[cmoore]

You can bet on synthetics at 10 % take across the board, Or on dirt at the current takes which way would you go and why ?

10% take on synthetics all day long..

5-8% savings on wps

Up to a 17% savings on exotics

How could anyone not choose the 10%..

[ryesteve]

10% take on synthetics all day long..

5-8% savings on wps

Up to a 17% savings on exotics

How could anyone not choose the 10%..
Well, if they're doing more than 8% worse on straight bets, and more than 17% worse on exotics, then I could see why they'd take the status quo

[CBedo]

10% takeout across the board on synthetics--no contest!

[Run Nicholas Run]

I 'll wager on the phoney track.

[BillW]

10%

[acorn54]

i wish there was only 10 percent take out. personally my betting results on artificial don't differ from my dirt results

[kenwoodallpromos]

Well, some on here figure the fake stuff only costs about 7% more losing??
Of course I would bet dirt because I would not have to compete with all you great 'cappers from here!!LOL!!

[Hajck Hillstrom]

A level playing field is a fair battle.

[fmolf]

A level playing field is a fair battle.
I'd have to bite the bullet and learn my plastic dirt handicapping lessons.

[JustRalph]

play poker.....which is where I am headed.........

[statepierback]

10 % . A few of the rubber tracks are playable. GG and HP. Maybe WB and ARL. A lower takeout is too much of a good thing to let get away.

[castaway01]

play poker.....which is where I am headed.........

You're way behind the fad there, as poker betting is drying up fast. The "easy money" may not be as easy to find as you think.

[BlueShoe]

play poker.....which is where I am headed.........

How about learning expert blackjack strategy or even head for the crap tables?Bucking a 1.4 pc house edge on line bets vs our 15-30 pc take out has gotten me thinking about dusting off a couple of those old craps systems that delivered moderate success long ago.Will have to skip poker,Im too old to learn to play hold em;7 stud was my game,and no one plays it anymore.

[LottaKash]

I wish I had a "million dollars" too.......:D

best,

[ryesteve]

Bucking a 1.4 pc house edge on line bets vs our 15-30 pc take out has gotten me thinking about dusting off a couple of those old craps systems that delivered moderate success long ago.Wow, someone has read Formula2002's sig line so many times, they actually started to believe it...

[ranchwest]

I'd bet the turf at the all-weather tracks. :)

[Tom]

I'll play the DIRT tracks, what with all YOU sharpies going to plastic, I'd have it MADE! :D

[CincyHorseplayer]

If the powers that be in racing asked you this question what would you say???

If it was a poll and not your choice to begin with,then what would your answer be??

That's pretty much how it is isn't it??Not your choice?

The California bettors are saddled with this question dominantly,not the rest of us.Marginally at best.It doesn't really affect the racing community unless you're stuck with it on an entire circuit.

[Pace Cap'n]

Wow, someone has read Formula2002's sig line so many times, they actually started to believe it...

Surely you don't dispute that the house edge on pass-line (and don't pass) bets is 1.4%.

Other bets on the table range as high as 16% for the house, so some discipline is required.

wizardofodds.com/craps (http://wizardofodds.com/craps)

[ryesteve]

Surely you don't dispute that the house edge on pass-line (and don't pass) bets is 1.4%.No, I dispute that it's easier to show long-term profits at craps than it is at horses.

[Track Collector]

Dirt.

My ROI on synthetics is currently not at a level that 10% take would get me to profitability. Another important consideration. Many more dirt tracks means many more AVAILABLE plays. :)

[BlueShoe]

No, I dispute that it's easier to show long-term profits at craps than it is at horses.

Perhaps my attempt at humor was overlooked by a few.On a more serious note,the idea that we get all giddy at the mere suggestion of "only" a 10% take does get me thinking about other wagering options.Unlike the math profs,am still not convinced that a casino game with a minus expectation is unbeatable over a long term.1.4% is quite small,and it can be reduced even more for those that take or lay odds.On my next trip to Nevada,if I can drag myself out of that comfortable race book for awhile,just might give the craps table some action.Standing on my feet in one place for an extended period of time breathing cigarette smoke is not something to relish,but if some of those old methods still function,could offer an alternative to bucking that relentless mutuel takeout.

[senortout]

The preponderance of races are NOT WON by the first horse out of the gate. (all you dirt lovers)

Au contraire...most are won by the FIRST ONE HOME!(all you turf lovers)

Somewhere in between(all you poly lovers)

I can live with poly.

Pioneer of the Nile...he did win the SA Derby....is it just possible he may have sustained his career ending injuries when he hit those dirt tracks? And, I think another great horse came off the poly and injured himself back east?....maybe during that great run he made, blowing the start and then winning for fun???? three word name, I forgot it already...Ieah stables horse. "I Want Revenge" something like that..

senortout

[ryesteve]

Perhaps my attempt at humor was overlooked by a few.On a more serious note,the idea that we get all giddy at the mere suggestion of "only" a 10% take does get me thinking about other wagering options.Unlike the math profs,am still not convinced that a casino game with a minus expectation is unbeatable over a long term.I guess I'm just confused. Was that last part a continuation of the joke?

[OTM Al]

And I thought the question was going to be Bea Arthur or Estelle Getty.....

Oh, and I'd take the synth at 10%

[Cangamble]

10%. I'd almost say that I would bet harness over thoroughbreds if the take was 10%, but I'd still have to give it some thought.

[njcurveball]

You can bet on synthetics at 10 % take across the board, Or on dirt at the current takes which way would you go and why ?

I would sign up anywhere that let me to bet on synthetics at 10%. Best thing to come along for the bettor in a long time.

So many people blame the track instead of their handicapping. I also love the people who say "if they can run on turf, they can run on poly". Almost like 30 years ago when they use to say "if they can run on turf, they run in the mud".

Sign me up for 10%! :ThmbUp:

[Indulto]

I'm A MAYSed the poster who originally posed this fortuitous question hasn't weighed in here, ;) but I'm sure that synthetic venue executives would be interested to see what % of previously anti-plastic bombastics could be "bought off" their original positions.

So far the thread seems to indicate how much more important the takeout issue is than the synthetics issue, and why it must not be allowed to be "bought off." If the opponents of equally lower takeout for all interpret the recent de-emphasising of the takeout issue as weakness; it would probably strengthen their resolve to maintain the status quo.

Yes racing is complex and takeout is hard to change in individual jurisdictions/venues, but no more or less so than it would be collectively, if the right leverage is applied and we keep beating the drum until everyone understands the crippling effect of high takeout on the game. Synthetics could indeed be our lever.

If we are not clueless in California and hapless at HANA, the Couto-less, Shapiro-less, owner-less, handle-less racing industry here might just be ripe for significant takeout reduction under extreme pressue by horseplayers. Having finally eliminated the legal obstacle to rebates, California is the best place to start.

Del Mar and Santa Anita need to buy time until they can minimize all the negative aspects of plastic that players and trainers are already aware of and at the same time encourage them to learn how to adjust to these surfaces. If California handle were to explode with lowered takeout, every other jurisdiction/venue will have to follow suit or lose significant business.

So maybe a campaign is in order to encourage players to avoid betting synthetic races at Del Mar until they get the message. Risk a little to win a lot. Change will only come through confrontation.

I'm reminded of an old Happy Days episode where Fonzie is teaching Richie how to fight, but explaining how much futher a tough image goes in avoiding trouble. Richie is getting all excited until Fonzie deflates him with a line to the effect that "Somebody somewhere has to have seen you throw a punch sometime." He didn't say whether the punch had to land.

BANG THE DRUM !!!!!!! THROW A PUNCH !!!!!!

[magwell]

I posed the question because I would be a player of the lower take if they ran the races over broken glass or down a muddy road, after many years at this game I find at the present take I'm able to just barely keep my nose above water and if not for some real good scores along the way, I would have been way behind. bottom line.... its all about the take, it really doesn't matter to me what they are running on..... I can adjust :cool:

[Indulto]

I posed the question because I would be a player of the lower take if they ran the races over broken glass or down a muddy road, after many years at this game I find at the present take I'm able to just barely keep my nose above water and if not for some real good scores along the way, I would have been way behind. bottom line.... its all about the take, it really doesn't matter to me what they are running on..... I can adjust :cool:Sorry, magwell, I was just teasing andymays for his response to this post:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=709607#post709607

Actually, I'm glad you started this thread. The opportunity to use synthetics to get takeout lowered wasn't obvious the first time around.

[trying2win]

If I had to make a choice, it would be to bet the synthetic tracks at the 10 % takeout. In the meantime, in an effort to reduce effects of the onerous takeouts, I'll continue to utilize several ADWS and the odd offshore racebook to get the best rebate rates for the tracks I like to play. As a general rule for me....NO DECENT REBATE = NO PLAY. Why play a racetrack in person, or a betting outfit offtrack that pays no reasonable rebate? In my opinion, all the current takeouts, breakage and slot machine revenues should not go to the racetrack, ADW, offshore racebook and horsemen, but a decent part of it should go to the most important person of all....THE BETTOR!

T2W

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