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Cangamble
07-07-2009, 05:15 PM
Those behind the invention would be scared to have a takeout of anything over 10-12%.

Racing needs to start from scratch.

fmolf
07-07-2009, 05:17 PM
Those behind the invention would be scared to have a takeout of anything over 10-12%.

Racing needs to start from scratch.
you are right the problems now are the monies they guarantee to state coffers.

lamboguy
07-07-2009, 06:22 PM
Those behind the invention would be scared to have a takeout of anything over 10-12%.

Racing needs to start from scratch.

i think that you have figured out how game started to go down hill. its called greed. and greed kills. now if we think about it, lets say we lowered the takeout now to the old levels. you would have more people going to the racetracks, more beautiful women running around the track for the gamblers to chase around. that would bring even more people into those places.

some places charge over 30% for3 horse tricks. those guys are not tricking anyone but themselves. we have some real sharp people running this game and collecting paychecks to boot!

InsideThePylons-MW
07-07-2009, 06:24 PM
Those behind the invention would be scared to have a takeout of anything over 10-12%.

How can takeout be that low when the horsemen need at least that much just for themselves according to Fred Pope?

Cangamble
07-07-2009, 06:27 PM
How can takeout be that low when the horsemen need at least that much just for themselves according to Fred Pope?
Pope is out of touch with reality.

InsideThePylons-MW
07-07-2009, 06:31 PM
Pope is out of touch with reality.

What are you talking about?

Paulick, Cot Campbell, TB Times and many other racing leaders all vouch for this guy as being an innovative genius that TB racing MUST listen to and implement his ideas.

Cangamble
07-07-2009, 06:36 PM
What are you talking about?

Paulick, Cot Campbell, TB Times and many other racing leaders all vouch for this guy as being an innovative genius that TB racing MUST listen to and implement his ideas.
I think Paulick learned his lesson backing Pope. I don't see it happening next time Pope opens his clueless mouth.

Imriledup
07-07-2009, 06:44 PM
As long as there is horse racing, there will be owners who have EGO's that will make them want to own horses, even if they lose money. Where in the bylaws written in stone inside heaven's gates does it say that owners have to make money? This is called the sport of kings because only kings can actually afford to own horses. If horse ownership was a money making venture, many more people would be involved.

Someone ought to send a proposal to Mark Cuban (or someone like him) and explain to him that he should open up a supertrack with 10 pct takeouts across the board. HE can put all these other tracks out of business with a super track. he can 'foot' the bill early on for large purses to attract the very best horses, recruit the very best jocks and trainers and just turn racing on its ear.

Here's my question for all of you on here. If a supertrack opened with a 10 pct takeout across the board, would you drop everything and put all your time and effort into handicapping and betting on this track? Or, would you stick with your status quo?

Cangamble
07-07-2009, 06:57 PM
As long as there is horse racing, there will be owners who have EGO's that will make them want to own horses, even if they lose money. Where in the bylaws written in stone inside heaven's gates does it say that owners have to make money? This is called the sport of kings because only kings can actually afford to own horses. If horse ownership was a money making venture, many more people would be involved.

Someone ought to send a proposal to Mark Cuban (or someone like him) and explain to him that he should open up a supertrack with 10 pct takeouts across the board. HE can put all these other tracks out of business with a super track. he can 'foot' the bill early on for large purses to attract the very best horses, recruit the very best jocks and trainers and just turn racing on its ear.

Here's my question for all of you on here. If a supertrack opened with a 10 pct takeout across the board, would you drop everything and put all your time and effort into handicapping and betting on this track? Or, would you stick with your status quo?
The problem is that WEG wouldn't take the signal and they wouldn't let me sign up with anyone in the US that took them.:)

Or WEG would take the signal and ramp up the takeouts to 25%

fmolf
07-07-2009, 07:04 PM
As long as there is horse racing, there will be owners who have EGO's that will make them want to own horses, even if they lose money. Where in the bylaws written in stone inside heaven's gates does it say that owners have to make money? This is called the sport of kings because only kings can actually afford to own horses. If horse ownership was a money making venture, many more people would be involved.

Someone ought to send a proposal to Mark Cuban (or someone like him) and explain to him that he should open up a supertrack with 10 pct takeouts across the board. HE can put all these other tracks out of business with a super track. he can 'foot' the bill early on for large purses to attract the very best horses, recruit the very best jocks and trainers and just turn racing on its ear.

Here's my question for all of you on here. If a supertrack opened with a 10 pct takeout across the board, would you drop everything and put all your time and effort into handicapping and betting on this track? Or, would you stick with your status quo?
well said....Ibelieve that if takeouts were lowered ,purses would be lowered as a result.This would cause some of the lesser horseman looking for a handout to leave the game.then with less horses around in training,lesser tracks would have defined seasons out of necessity.Some tracks would close others shorten their cards.people would come back albeit slowly as the product gets better and the price remains low.The problem is greed and until handle trickles to its lowest levels ever this will never happen.when their is a surplus of product and a low demand normal business practice tells you to lower price ,unload inventory and then retool redesign and reinvent oneself to make your product more marketable to the general public.racetrack management in conjunction with local governments have failed miserably in this regard.

Cangamble
07-07-2009, 07:41 PM
well said....Ibelieve that if takeouts were lowered ,purses would be lowered as a result.This would cause some of the lesser horseman looking for a handout to leave the game.then with less horses around in training,lesser tracks would have defined seasons out of necessity.Some tracks would close others shorten their cards.people would come back albeit slowly as the product gets better and the price remains low.The problem is greed and until handle trickles to its lowest levels ever this will never happen.when their is a surplus of product and a low demand normal business practice tells you to lower price ,unload inventory and then retool redesign and reinvent oneself to make your product more marketable to the general public.racetrack management in conjunction with local governments have failed miserably in this regard.
If takeouts were lowered, purses would increase.

rwwupl
07-07-2009, 07:51 PM
Those behind the invention would be scared to have a takeout of anything over 10-12%.

Racing needs to start from scratch.

Listen well, The truth is before you.

Forget Mr. Pope

Cangamble :ThmbUp:

Imriledup
07-07-2009, 08:18 PM
Cangamble :ThmbUp:

foregoforever
07-07-2009, 08:43 PM
Those behind the invention would be scared to have a takeout of anything over 10-12%.

Racing needs to start from scratch.

Agreed. Start by demolishing the "source market fee" concept. If that 10-12% went only to the track that put on the race, and to the outfit that handled the wager (i.e., the ones that actually did something to deserve it), then there'd be plenty to go around.

And tracks that offered attractive racing, and wagering outfits that offered good service, would prosper. Those that don't, wouldn't.

Steve 'StatMan'
07-07-2009, 11:49 PM
Maybe they all need to remember that Pope in this case is just a last name, not a title.

Steve 'StatMan'
07-07-2009, 11:52 PM
Hey, if they started the whole game and industry fresh tomorow or next month, they'd hopefully start with the latest & greatest techonology for mutual equipment, data transmissions, and updating the pools and allowing no possibility of past posting or fraud.

kenwoodallpromos
07-08-2009, 02:39 AM
Hopefully USA lay betting, more progressive (carryover) type bets, a ticket invented to somehow bet all races involving 1 trainer or jockey on a racecard.

castaway01
07-08-2009, 09:16 AM
No offense, but what is the point of talking about something that is impossible? Even if racing wanted to cut takeout to 12% at every track tomorrow, there are a million state and federal rules and regulations that mandate that this can't take place. I understand that the people in charge are clueless, but this is something they couldn't do if they wanted to.

Cangamble
07-08-2009, 09:47 AM
No offense, but what is the point of talking about something that is impossible? Even if racing wanted to cut takeout to 12% at every track tomorrow, there are a million state and federal rules and regulations that mandate that this can't take place. I understand that the people in charge are clueless, but this is something they couldn't do if they wanted to.
Some jurisdictions actually could do it. In Canada for instance, there is no problem. Taxes paid out are only 1.3% of the bet here. And the government has stated that they don't care what tracks charge their customers.

Cratos
07-08-2009, 11:14 AM
Those behind the invention would be scared to have a takeout of anything over 10-12%.

Racing needs to start from scratch.

If pari-mutuel wagering was “invented” tomorrow it is my opinion that there would be a change in the take out percent from every dollar wagered and the various state authorities would not be “partners” to the gambling system as we know it today.

How would this happen? The state authorities might issue a fee-based license to the track operator/owner which would be renewable on a performance basis and the mutuel pool for the bettors would have a take out percent reduced by the track operator/owner to encourage wagering.

castaway01
07-08-2009, 05:14 PM
Some jurisdictions actually could do it. In Canada for instance, there is no problem. Taxes paid out are only 1.3% of the bet here. And the government has stated that they don't care what tracks charge their customers.

Well, that's Canada...I know you are there, it's a fine place. :) But U.S. states can't just lower the takeout, even if they wanted to.

Loserdave
07-11-2009, 07:42 AM
if horse racing was invented tomorrow, the person inventing it would be told they were nuts.
"you wanna do what? Once every half hour you want to put midgets on horses, have them run around in a circle and have people bet on it. It'll never work"

As for the lower takeout, it won't happen in the US. Takeout is regulated by state and government is much more likely to increase their take than decrease it. Ellis Park tried a low takeout pick4 a couple of years ago to generate interest in the track. Today they open for their final meet before they close.

Cangamble
07-11-2009, 11:02 AM
As for the lower takeout, it won't happen in the US. Takeout is regulated by state and government is much more likely to increase their take than decrease it. Ellis Park tried a low takeout pick4 a couple of years ago to generate interest in the track. Today they open for their final meet before they close.
Do you really think there is a correlation there? Betfair has the lowest takeouts out there, and they are their growth has been astronomical.