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View Full Version : Downs After Dark "Election"


eclecticapper
07-07-2009, 03:41 PM
The voting booths are open at Churchill's website: http://www.churchilldowns.com/vote

They were able to get good turnouts on all 3 nights (28,011 and 27,623 on the two Fridays plus 33,481 on the Thursday night before the 4th of July weekend) despite the higher admission prices and it certainly increases the likelihood the Derby will eventually be run in prime time. If first post on Derby Day is moved from 10:30 AM to Noon (and they continue to drag out the day as long as possible), post time for the Derby could be between 8 and 9 PM.

kenwoodallpromos
07-07-2009, 10:53 PM
Let's hope this racing disease called "common sense" spreads to other tracks!!
Prime Time makes everything seem more important! :ThmbUp:

sandpit
07-07-2009, 11:25 PM
taking a poll on this is ridiculous...of course people are going to like it better than day racing; the turnout alone, especially after the CD management trying to do it on the cheap in week one, should tell them all they need to know.

Here's the real kicker to the whole lights thing: when they tore down the clubhouse a few years back, track lighting was part of the original plan for the rebuilt facility, but it was deemed too expensive by the board, so they nixed it. Now, it's going to cost them 3-5x what it would have. No wonder they were charging the higher than normal admission prices.

Steve 'StatMan'
07-07-2009, 11:45 PM
I truly can't imagine the KY Derby being run at night. The huge crowds and especially the betting would be the big issues, and for the huge amounts of money we're talking about, I seriously doubt network TV could pay enough money to get them to run at night, if it would seriously impact the handle or the huge attendance and sales, plus the consequences.

From an international handle standpoint, would they lose the European and other markets by having an evening post time in Louisville, which would mean a well after midnight but pre-dawn start in Europe? How much money would be at risk here?

Did handle on CD races go up, down or stay the same with the 3 nights of night racing? Will the national fans bet the same, less, or more if they change the derby to evening? Can they afford the risk to find out?

The huge crowd at CD already has to park in peoples front and back yards for at least 3/4 of a mile surrounding the track as it is, for this event. Would you want to force people to return to their vehicles, in the dark, all liquored up, back into the neighborhood yards and homes to get to their cars and then try to leaving at the same time? Daytime can't be easy. Nighttime? No thanks!

The huge party crowd in the infield - would they light the infield too? Would they not, and have that wild crowd getting even wilder in the dark or at least lesser lighting? How much money does that crowd alone bring in? Could they afford the hastles & lawsuits over what could happen? How much revenue would they sacrifice if they closed the infield for night time KY Derby?

sandpit
07-08-2009, 12:09 AM
I truly can't imagine the KY Derby being run at night. The huge crowds and especially the betting would be the big issues, and for the huge amounts of money we're talking about, I seriously doubt network TV could pay enough money to get them to run at night, if it would seriously impact the handle or the huge attendance and sales, plus the consequences.

From an international handle standpoint, would they lose the European and other markets by having an evening post time in Louisville, which would mean a well after midnight but pre-dawn start in Europe? How much money would be at risk here?

Did handle on CD races go up, down or stay the same with the 3 nights of night racing? Will the national fans bet the same, less, or more if they change the derby to evening? Can they afford the risk to find out?

The huge crowd at CD already has to park in peoples front and back yards for at least 3/4 of a mile surrounding the track as it is, for this event. Would you want to force people to return to their vehicles, in the dark, all liquored up, back into the neighborhood yards and homes to get to their cars and then try to leaving at the same time? Daytime can't be easy. Nighttime? No thanks!

The huge party crowd in the infield - would they light the infield too? Would they not, and have that wild crowd getting even wilder in the dark or at least lesser lighting? How much money does that crowd alone bring in? Could they afford the hastles & lawsuits over what could happen? How much revenue would they sacrifice if they closed the infield for night time KY Derby?

they certainly have a lot to consider when it comes to this subject.

Start with the entire week of racing. Would they run the Kentucky Oaks at night too? If so, would the maintenance/cleanup/operations people have enough time to clean up to get ready when they open the gates on Saturday? I know they work all night long as it is.
Two: they didn't have any lights on the turf course, let alone the infield, so they would have to take that into consideration.
Three: the overseas handle gets to be a bigger deal every year. Maybe running the race at night helps with the Asian countries; I don't know.
Four: I think they would break attendance records the first time they did it. People wouldn't give a damn how bad the neighborhood was. I do feel sorry for the police both at and around the track when they do it; it will be wild.

I'm sure there are a ton of other things to think about. It would certainly be miserable if it rained. I remember being on the backside one Derby about 10 years ago and a huge lightning/thunderstorm rolling in right around dark, tornado warnings and everything.
And you wonder how the horses would handle it? If Jess Jackson worries about his horses on the synthetic, wonder what he would think about running at 10:30 p.m. with 170,000 screaming drunks in attendance? Oh, wait, he did it in Dubai, minus the booze and the huge crowd.

bishlap
07-08-2009, 01:34 AM
this is another desperation move of a dying sport. When the fad of nighttime racing wears off we'll be back to the starting gate. Friday nite racing seems the most sensible approach. As for the Derby at night - why? it's a Saturday, the same amount of ppl will attend, maybe less, and less will watch (TV ppl know saturday nite is dead) which will affect the ppl pulling the strings of the triple crown, THE NETWORKS.

kenwoodallpromos
07-08-2009, 02:22 AM
this is another desperation move of a dying sport. When the fad of nighttime racing wears off we'll be back to the starting gate. Friday nite racing seems the most sensible approach. As for the Derby at night - why? it's a Saturday, the same amount of ppl will attend, maybe less, and less will watch (TV ppl know saturday nite is dead) which will affect the ppl pulling the strings of the triple crown, THE NETWORKS.
"But Ed Barrow, the Yankees' general manager, wasn't worried. He dismissed night baseball as a fad that would "never last once the novelty wears off."

bishlap
07-08-2009, 02:27 AM
"But Ed Barrow, the Yankees' general manager, wasn't worried. He dismissed night baseball as a fad that would "never last once the novelty wears off."
then in 100 years i'll get back to you.

Rapid Grey
07-08-2009, 10:20 AM
Biggest problems they had with the night crowds involved staffing. Not too many people want to work only one night a week. Tellers, concessions, security, greeting staff, programs sellers. You name it, any other day of the week they get by on pretty much the same number of employees. One night of the week and all hell breaks loose.

This is Churchill Downs Incorporated we are talking about too and the ONLY THING they care about is the bottom line. If they do make night racing part of the regular schedule expect them to fleece the customer. Ten dollars to get in will be the norm, beer and concession prices will be higher as will the preferred seating. Oh, and they will always understaff as oppossed to overstaff.

They'll find a way to screw it up.

joanied
07-08-2009, 01:14 PM
I don't think the Derby at night will work...I won't retype what you guys already posted...every bit of your 'concerns' are valid...and CD needs to be very careful in it's thinking on running the Derby at night.
I do think all the major tracks might benefit from a friday night at the races theme...and those younger folks that attend, might just come back for the day races...
There is also whispers going around about running the BC at night...and that, IMO, sounds more promising and less of a logistical nightmare than the Derby at night....especially if the BC folks get wise and forget about fillies on Friday and the rest on Sat. crap...which won't happen anytime soon. They should also consider dropping a few of the newly formed races...I didn't notice any new catagories for the Eclispe Awards...so why have these 'new' races on the card...just so they can run BC two days...geeze!

Black Ruby
07-08-2009, 01:24 PM
I don't believe that the Derby at night is even a consideration. The bars and restaurants here would scream bloody murder if they were losing the Derby night revenues, plus all the charities that have Derby night events. Add the hotels/motels that would lose customers who would come in Derby day instead of Oaks day, and the city would really raise hell.

eclecticapper
07-08-2009, 03:41 PM
I suspect there'll be more items like the following:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19993733/detail.html

Since Louisville is on the extreme western edge of the eastern time zone, it would actually be possible to run the Derby after 8 PM without running it under the lights (sunset in early May in Louisville is a few minutes after 8:30 PM). Churchill typically runs 2 races after the Derby and those would be run well after sunset. The crowd would start leaving after the Derby when there's still daylight (at least if it's sunny). Post-Derby traffic is always a problem, but the Louisville Police have to deal with a much larger crowd after Thunder Over Louisville and they have to do it at night so it's difficult but not impossible. Evans doesn't sound like he's in a rush to do this, so apparently even he gets one right every now and then.

joanied
07-08-2009, 06:19 PM
I hope they don't rush into this too fast....like the rush to install synthetic at the CA tracks...you know what they say..."haste makes waste"... I do think that night racing has it's place...maybe just on weekends? I don't know what the right way would be... but to jump in and change everything because a few Friday nights were a big hit is, IMO, being rather reckless...but I understand...the CD guys can see just one thing...$$$$$$$$$:)

louisianawoman
07-08-2009, 08:00 PM
I really like the idea of night racing for Friday nights for sure. It gives more options for the working people.

eclecticapper
09-28-2009, 03:24 PM
The foregone conclusion is now officially reality -- Churchill Downs will install permanent lights: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090928/BUSINESS/909280345/1042/FEATURES/Churchill-to-make-lights-permanent

While they'll be having another poll re: how often they'll race at night, I'll take a wild guess that it'll be almost every Friday of the spring/summer meet. That meet could be longer depending on what dates (if any) Ellis Park runs next year.

castaway01
09-28-2009, 03:44 PM
I don't think the Derby at night will work...I won't retype what you guys already posted...every bit of your 'concerns' are valid...and CD needs to be very careful in it's thinking on running the Derby at night.
I do think all the major tracks might benefit from a friday night at the races theme...and those younger folks that attend, might just come back for the day races...
There is also whispers going around about running the BC at night...and that, IMO, sounds more promising and less of a logistical nightmare than the Derby at night....especially if the BC folks get wise and forget about fillies on Friday and the rest on Sat. crap...which won't happen anytime soon. They should also consider dropping a few of the newly formed races...I didn't notice any new catagories for the Eclispe Awards...so why have these 'new' races on the card...just so they can run BC two days...geeze!

Tracks have been doing night racing for many years---most of the those that tried around here are closed down now. On the other hand, people actually WENT to Churchill at night (imagine that, 30,000 people at a racetrack in 2009!) so maybe it's time to broaden your horizons.

goforgin
09-28-2009, 03:55 PM
Hawthorne in Stickney/Cicero, IL is going to try twilight racing this fall. Friday Oct 9th and Oct 16th. Post time 5:30pm. $1 beers, $1 hot dogs, $1 admission and $1 programs. They run the pacers/trotters there at night. Maybe the t-breds will do okay as well.

joanied
09-28-2009, 04:42 PM
Tracks have been doing night racing for many years---most of the those that tried around here are closed down now. On the other hand, people actually WENT to Churchill at night (imagine that, 30,000 people at a racetrack in 2009!) so maybe it's time to broaden your horizons.

My horizons are broad enough, thank you...and yep, night racing has been around for sometime...doesn't make it good, just around.

That said...I was thrilled that Churchill had such good crowds for their intitial foray into night racing...and said as much...in fact, I have no problem at all with night racing..wouldn't want to see it occur on a daily scheduel...but, I think weekend (maybe Thurs. night too) night racing is a cool idea...younger crowds, music, $1.00 beer, good food bars...the possibilites are endless...any way to get our sport new fans is worth a shot.
I did say I'm not sure having the Kentucky Derby at night is a good idea...but me doubts we'd even have to discuss that...if they do that, it'll be a ways in the future, so I won't argue it's pro's & con's... same with the BC...too soon to think about that too...
:)

joanied
09-30-2009, 02:58 PM
This thread is quiet...but I thought I'd mention a poll over at the Paulick Report...asking about whether or not running the Derby in 'prime time' would benefit racing...not whether or not you think it's a good idea, but would it benefit racing?
Poll results are 51% yes, it would benefit racing
49% no it will not
I find it interesting that the results are so close... I assume it's going to be tossed around quite a bit in the near future...and as someone mentioned, it's a good possibility because of the Time Zones...so, who knows:)

Irish Boy
09-30-2009, 05:20 PM
Hawthorne in Stickney/Cicero, IL is going to try twilight racing this fall. Friday Oct 9th and Oct 16th. Post time 5:30pm. $1 beers, $1 hot dogs, $1 admission and $1 programs. They run the pacers/trotters there at night. Maybe the t-breds will do okay as well.

Here's the problem with this: Hawthorne is an absolute dump. So are most tracks. Sure, if you go there often enough, you get used to it. It becomes not that bad. It's just where you go to see the ponies run. But if you try to bring a newcomer to Hawthorne, or try to entice people that haven't been introduced to the sport, they're going to be scared away. Everything smells bad. The restrooms look like trucker stops. The track is unfortunately surrounded by gravel pits and water sewage treatment plants. Etc. If Hawthorne is the first experience of people looking to come out for their first horse racing experience, they'll never have a second one, regardless of whether it's AM or PM, and no reduction in takeout or anything else is going to change that.

foregoforever
09-30-2009, 05:43 PM
Our opinions on this mean nothing. The first week of May is right in the middle of a "sweeps" period for the networks. NBC, or whoever has the broadcast rights, will make the decision for us.

If they do opt for prime-time, I'd guarantee that it won't be the two-hour format. It might not even be one hour. The drivel that we typically get during the first 90 minutes of the Derby telecast is most definitely not ready for prime time in TV bean-counter land ... unless they turn the prelims into a fashion show.