What may be holding you back..?

[LottaKash]

What may be holding you back from being as good as you would like to be or could or should be, given your current handicapping skills and knowledge...

[takeout]

All of the above + “other”. ;)

[Tape Reader]

A computerized, tote board, auto-bet program where I could just type in my variables and come back at the end of the day to see how much money I won.

[andymays]

You forgot to put synthetic surfaces in the poll. That's a big one for me!

[acorn54]

none of the above
you forgot too much take out and taxation

[Black Ruby]

I'm with AndyMays, I don't like the Nerf tracks, won't play 'em. Only exceptions are when I go to ogle the fillies at Keeneland, or when I'm at AP for the Million next month. But those are just action bets, not serious wagers like the pre-Nerf days at those places.

[JBmadera]

great topic Johnny - for me it's too many races where I have ideas but no firm opinions....shows up with too many exacta keys/part wheels, etc

jb

[Bison]

Too many action bets. I have a hard time sitting and watching a race without a bet.

[JBmadera]

TOTAL redboard, but it's so freakin' funny - right after I typed the note above I come to R9 at PHA and I cannot decide between the first time grass horse, the 3 and the best current grass form horse the 6 so this is what I do:

7/7/20094:02 PMCC13F57D73AFPhiladelphia Park9$3.00EX3,6/3,5,6,9ONLINE$18.00$316.20


Now my records show that this is exactly the WORST bet I can make - but

dang it I keep doing it.....although, this time, I happy...:lol:


JB

[Bobzilla]

great topic Johnny - for me it's too many races where I have ideas but no firm opinions....shows up with too many exacta keys/part wheels, etc

jb


This is along the lines of what I was thinking. Knowing myself well enough so that I may better differentiate between the instances where I have a half-baked opinion of what might take place, an idea as you said, and those instances where my opinion is a really strong one where my line of reasoning is on firm ground and fits my angle in every way. Sometimes in the heat of the battle and with post time drawing closer the distinction between the two becomes blurry. Maybe it's the fear of regret. I don't know, but if so then I need to have a mindset where I can comfortably watch a long priced horse come in who I kind of considered, but didn't back big if even at all, and be okay with the fact that he won and I didn't play him as I would a strong opinion where I really felt I had the goods. The strong opinions will present themselves again in the future and betting into that edge is really the only time a serious wager can be justified. I've noticed in the past that taking some time off for a week or two can sometimes help me distinguish between the two when I come back.

[ryesteve]

So far, the top two choices are "lack of discipline, etc" and "Play too many races". But if playing too many races is the problem, isn't that because of a lack of discipline?

[JBmadera]

So far, the top two choices are "lack of discipline, etc" and "Play too many races". But if playing too many races is the problem, isn't that because of a lack of discipline?

yes, that is true, but lack of discipline can also mean too many wagers in a given race as well, just my 2 cents.

jb

[fmolf]

yes, that is true, but lack of discipline can also mean too many wagers in a given race as well, just my 2 cents.

jb
for me it is three things,the first two i view as biggies.# 3 is fixable.

1)I do not keep detailed enough records.

2)I do not play tri's or supers because i have a tough time picking out
the 3rd and 4th place horses in exotic wagers.this limits my play to
win pools and exacta pools.

3)this is fixable.Since i only get to the track once a week I make at least
a watch bet on every race even though i may only have 3 prime
betting opportunities picked out.When winning i also make these watch
bets a bit larger trying to ride a hot streak.

[wisconsin]

Remember when sitting at the track for 9 races was heaven. I always thought that with simulcasting, we could pick our spots and play only the races we liked.

Yeah, right.....

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Where is the most common problem people have that keep them from maximizing their talent.....

Being a nit

[CBedo]

How about lack of bankroll! :lol: In all seriousness though, playing with and undercapitalized bankroll can be very detrimental. This could be considered a subset of poor money management practices.

[dav4463]

Mine is definitely confidence. I doubt myself too much and will not make large wagers for fear of losing too much money.....which I guess fits with lack of bankroll.

[ryesteve]

yes, that is true, but lack of discipline can also mean too many wagers in a given race as well, just my 2 cents.jbTrue, I didn't mean they were equivalent, I meant one is a subset of the other, as you said.

In other words, even though the responses looks pretty spread out, if you throw those two together, it looks like we have a solid consensus.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Definitely undercapitalization.You play sporadically and can't get into a groove.Don't make as much money on the races as you should.Puts you in more of a survival mentality than a crushing mentality.

I don't play with my bill money but I have payed bills with winnings,so the roll never grows.The lack of a constant and growing bankroll is the only thing I think that has held me back for the last 9 months.It's been tough out there!!

[dav4463]

Definitely undercapitalization.You play sporadically and can't get into a groove.Don't make as much money on the races as you should.Puts you in more of a survival mentality than a crushing mentality.

I don't play with my bill money but I have payed bills with winnings,so the roll never grows.The lack of a constant and growing bankroll is the only thing I think that has held me back for the last 9 months.It's been tough out there!!


So I guess it is not a good thing when I go to the track and.........if I lose a lot, I eat sandwiches.........if I break even, I go to McDonald's........if I win a little, I might hit Chili's.............and if I win a lot, I go to Outback and then hit the topless bar! :)

[CincyHorseplayer]

So I guess it is not a good thing when I go to the track and.........if I lose a lot, I eat sandwiches.........if I break even, I go to McDonald's........if I win a little, I might hit Chili's.............and if I win a lot, I go to Outback and then hit the topless bar! :)

Back in my 20's when I would hit for $300 or more I'd always be eating at a top notch place and hitting some night clubs chasing skirts.I bet we could all tell some stories about what we did AFTER a big win day!That'd be a cool thread.

[miesque]

So I guess it is not a good thing when I go to the track and.........if I lose a lot, I eat sandwiches.........if I break even, I go to McDonald's........if I win a little, I might hit Chili's.............and if I win a lot, I go to Outback and then hit the topless bar! :)

Definitely undercapitalization.You play sporadically and can't get into a groove.Don't make as much money on the races as you should.Puts you in more of a survival mentality than a crushing mentality.

I don't play with my bill money but I have payed bills with winnings,so the roll never grows.The lack of a constant and growing bankroll is the only thing I think that has held me back for the last 9 months.It's been tough out there!!

The comments you both made are why I have no designs on being a professional horseplayer (unless retired or semi-retired with a capital base yielding more then adequate cash flow to maintain my personal expense level) and why my occupation has nothing to do with horse racing. When I have a nice hit I will keep a portion of it in my account but the remainder is spent, usually a decent chunk of it on something which you guys would find frivolous. Yes, that chunk of money would help fund a rough patch (which is inevitable), but I want to feel the pain of putting money in during those periods, helps create discipline. The comment of "crush" mentality versus "survival" mentality is pretty accurate with myself strongly being on the "crush" side of the spectrum.

[castaway01]

I was going to say "stupidity" but that wasn't an option.

[Bochall]

My problem is playing too many races. I pick a handful of winners each day...it's all those LOSERS I pick in between. One good score will make your day; maybe your week/month/year as well.

[badcompany]

#1 is definitely "Too big of a takeout." You could have none of those things holding you back but still lose because the track takes too big of a slice.

As far as things that are my fault, action betting. Not really a problem, at home, but at a track, I have a hard time sitting on my hands for an extended period.

[RichieP]

I voted "lack of focus".

For the last 13 months I have become sole caregiver for my Mom who's life song nears its completion and I would not trade it 1 minute of it for all the winners in the world. Straight like that.

I have been Blessed :)

[matthewsiv]

I voted "lack of focus".

For the last 13 months I have become sole caregiver for my Mom who's life song nears its completion and I would not trade it 1 minute of it for all the winners in the world. Straight like that.

I have been Blessed :)

Richie

God Bless you and your Mum.

You are a good son and obviously a very good person.

There are not too many people who will do what you have done.

You are a clever guy to boot and winners will flow when you get the time.

I lost my Dad to cancer after 19 months of treatment and I lost my Mum 6 weeks before my Dad in 1995.

Trust me they live with you forever,they are just in the next room.

Make sure that you are taking care of yourself as well as your Mum.

All the best
Ian

[formula_2002]

What may be holding you back from being as good as you would like to be or could or should be, given your current handicapping skills and knowledge...
What may be holding you back from being more of a winner...(choose several)
you missed one.. the take-out

[LottaKash]

What may be holding you back from being more of a winner...(choose several)
you missed one.. the take-out

The track-rake is a given obstacle, I think....But, if that is the only thing that is holding you back, then your are very near to "Nirvana", well at least you are not going broke daily....

best,

[LottaKash]

I voted "lack of focus".

For the last 13 months I have become sole caregiver for my Mom who's life song nears its completion and I would not trade it 1 minute of it for all the winners in the world. Straight like that.

I have been Blessed :)

RichieP, I feel for you...tough spot to be sure....I will offer a prayer for you and your Mom...God Bless You...

best,

[acorn54]

The track-rake is a given obstacle, I think....But, if that is the only thing that is holding you back, then your are very near to "Nirvana", well at least you are not going broke daily....

best,


case in point. when i bet with pinny in 2006 i was up 1800 for the year with their 7 per cent rebate. in 2007 and 2008 without the 7 percent rebate i lost 2 per cent of my money. if i was still betting with pinny it would have been a 5 per cent GAIN instead.
and the powers that be wonder why horseracing is a dying sport.

[rokitman]

Excellent poll :ThmbUp:

[Robert Fischer]

Insisting on organization, discipline, just continuing to work hard every day and being relentless. It feels like it is inevitable to be the player who I want to be in a matter of time.

[rokitman]

It is very interesting that "Lack of knowledge" is the lowest at 2.9%, currently. I am sure that should be much higher than it is.

[castaway01]

It is very interesting that "Lack of knowledge" is the lowest at 2.9%, currently. I am sure that should be much higher than it is.

How would you know that you had a lack of knowledge? If you knew that, you'd fix it, and if you didn't you couldn't respond to a poll that you had it. That's why it's 2.9%. Common sense.

[LottaKash]

It is very interesting that "Lack of knowledge" is the lowest at 2.9%, currently. I am sure that should be much higher than it is.

Yes Rokitman, I thought that too....

It is quite evident that there are some very "savvy and sucessful" players on this forum...And most players, when doing some real soul searching, and if honest with themselves, can sort of place themselves into the pecking order of an imaginary "successful players list"...Given that, I am quite surprised that most posters in this poll didn't allude to needing more and better information on their road to success at the races...

best,

[jonnielu]

How would you know that you had a lack of knowledge? If you knew that, you'd fix it, and if you didn't you couldn't respond to a poll that you had it. That's why it's 2.9%. Common sense.

If you don't understand why the results are as they are, you have a lack of knowledge. Also, you can never have enough knowledge, so therefore "lack of knowledge" is always a safe assumption.

Besides, ask anybody how they screwed something up, and the usual answer is the telling, "I don't know." :D

jdl

[CincyHorseplayer]

If you don't understand why the results are as they are, you have a lack of knowledge. Also, you can never have enough knowledge, so therefore "lack of knowledge" is always a safe assumption.

Besides, ask anybody how they screwed something up, and the usual answer is the telling, "I don't know." :D

jdl

You're not answering the thread title.What's holding you back from making more money???It wasn't asking your opinion on other people's faults.

You talk a big game but you don't say much.

[rokitman]

How would you know that you had a lack of knowledge? If you knew that, you'd fix it, and if you didn't you couldn't respond to a poll that you had it. That's why it's 2.9%. Common sense.
Happy to have your money in the pools. :ThmbUp:

[jonnielu]

You're not answering the thread title.What's holding you back from making more money???It wasn't asking your opinion on other people's faults.

You talk a big game but you don't say much.

So sensitive. Here you go:

As a HorsePlayer - nothing

As a publisher of information - disbelief, image, and lack of facility to train people in what to believe.

With that, I have said a great deal, but many people are trained to believe what they hear, not to consider what was actually stated.

jdl

[jefftune]

Lack of a bigger bankroll!

[LottaKash]

How would you know that you had a lack of knowledge? If you knew that, you'd fix it, and if you didn't you couldn't respond to a poll that you had it. That's why it's 2.9%. Common sense.

Castaway, I see your point and from that perspective it makes sense, I think....

Perhaps I could've worded it differently, but my intent was to allow people to "confess" that they don't know as much as they think they do....If one knew "a lot" about what wins and what loses a horse race, that would be ok and perhaps the other stumbling blocks are the real trouble and the reasons why they are not showing steady black-ink, day after day and at the end of a season or over a large block of time....But, many odd years ago I was fortunate enough to associate with some very " successful high rollers" and believe me it is a very humbling experience to find that despite what I thought, at the time, about my level of expertise, I just knew that I needed to really work on my game to approach that level of play (I mean my "super-prime $200 win bets, were "little" throwaway bets for some of these guys).....What those guys did and were capable of, was uncanny but very inspirational as well....The more knowledgable players seemed to be so much "luckier" than me, despite my being more or less a bit ahead of the crowd...

So, if others are playing and cashing on a steady basis, and another player isn't, then perhaps "a lack of knowledge to reach a higher level" is a very honest question after all....Equalling or being just slightly ahead of the crowd isn't enough these days, wouldn't you think ?

Me personally, I think I am pretty good, at least I believe that I am a few paces ahead of the general crowd, still, I am always in search for the "automatics", and every few months, I come up with a new variation or two on the same old junk that is in the printed program....So, despite my modest success' these days, I still remember those "guys" from my past days, hanging out in the "Pegasus" at the Meadowlands....I want more...:jump: ...knowledge

best,

[cmoore]

It is very interesting that "Lack of knowledge" is the lowest at 2.9%, currently. I am sure that should be much higher than it is.

I think many of us are very knowledgeable when it comes to handicapping..It's transferring all that knowledge into a way of betting. I recently read a chapter on Specialized knowledge in a book called " Think and Grow Rich"...
Here's one paragraph...
Knowlege will not attract money, unless it is organized and intelligently directed, through practical plans of action, to the definite end of accumulation of money..Lack of understanding of this fact has been the source of confusion to millions of people who falsely believe that "knowledge is power" It is nothing of the sort! Knowledge is only potential power. It becomes power only when, and if, it is organized into definite plans of action and directed to a definite end.

[LottaKash]

Well, I think this "Poll", has just about run it's course.....

I think it is good to take stock of our "foiables" from time to time...Most of them can be fixed in one way or another.....

I see the clear winner, is the "Discipline, Patience and Emotional Control part"....There is this little "child" that's lingers inside of all of us, and from time to time, he rears his mischievous head, and once that child is loose, all of the other stumbling blocks come into play, and spoil a perfectly satisfying, challenging, and often rewarding journey.....

When this occurs, I take a little comfort in this;..."It is difficult to break old thought processes, even for people who know better"....(Cary Fotias, "Blinkers Off"...)

Good Luck all, in shoring up your weaknesses.....:cool:

best,

[Overlay]

I would say that the biggest hurdle is "lack of knowledge" in the sense of incomplete information -- the portion of the total body of data about the horses in any given race that the individual handicapper (no matter how skilled) doesn't know (and perhaps can never know completely) -- whether that's the result of the non-availability of information that could feasibly be furnished as a standard element of performance data; or of "hidden" maneuvering, the darkening of condition, or similar practices dealing with training patterns and stable intent.

I think that this can be compensated for to a certain extent by quantitative analysis (through the use of statistics), and with more subjective reasoning -- such as Steve Davidowitz's famous question, "What is he doing in today's race?" -- but it seems to me that there will always be an element of the unknown that will set an upper limit on how far a handicapper's performance can progress. This, in turn, increases the importance (in my opinion) of viewing the outcomes of races in terms of probabilities and value, and looking at the relative chances of each horse in the field, rather than narrowly focusing only on finding and betting the one horse that's judged to be the most likely winner, without taking its odds into consideration.

[classhandicapper]

One of my biggest problems is that "I hate to lose". What makes it a problem is that I'm not talking about the long haul. I'm talking about a single day! Winning and losing in a single day often impacts my mood. So I'm always sort of trying to lock in a winning day because I want to stay in a good mood. :confused:

I tend to bet small early in the day because I don't want to dig too big a hole. If I get ahead, I tighten up even more trying to hold onto my winnings. If I fall behind, then I get aggressive trying to recoup. It's rare that I actually make a terrible bet trying to recoup or allow a very good value to get away. It's just that the bet sizes are often constructed to produce a winning day instead of being related to my bankroll or the value on the horse, which obviously makes no sense at all...other than to my emotional side. :bang:

[classhandicapper]

I would say that the biggest hurdle is "lack of knowledge" in the sense of incomplete information -- the portion of the total body of data about the horses in any given race that the individual handicapper (no matter how skilled) doesn't know (and perhaps can never know completely) -- whether that's the result of the non-availability of information that could feasibly be furnished as a standard element of performance data; or of "hidden" maneuvering, the darkening of condition, or similar practices dealing with training patterns and stable intent.

I think that this can be compensated for to a certain extent by quantitative analysis (through the use of statistics), and with more subjective reasoning -- such as Steve Davidowitz's famous question, "What is he doing in today's race?" -- but it seems to me that there will always be an element of the unknown that will set an upper limit on how far a handicapper's performance can progress. This, in turn, increases the importance (in my opinion) of viewing the outcomes of races in terms of probabilities and value, and looking at the relative chances of each horse in the field, rather than narrowly focusing only on finding and betting the one horse that's judged to be the most likely winner, without taking its odds into consideration.

Good post.

To me, knowing that you lack information is actually a nifty piece of information.

I try to be a very comprehensive handicapper, but there are times I know I don't understand some of the specific questions within specific race very well. That makes it easier to pass.

However, it also opens the door to playing the game a slightly different way. Sometimes I know something about one horse in the race that I'm pretty sure is not being reflected on the board. So even though there are some things I don't understand and other pieces of information I don't have, I can be fairly sure I have good value on the horse in question.

[ryesteve]

it seems to me that there will always be an element of the unknown that will set an upper limit on how far a handicapper's performance can progress. This, in turn, increases the importance (in my opinion) of viewing the outcomes of races in terms of probabilities and value, and looking at the relative chances of each horse in the field, rather than narrowly focusing only on finding and betting the one horse that's judged to be the most likely winner, without taking its odds into consideration.
This is the best and most concise explanation I can recall seeing that explains why one should not view handicapping a race as an attempt to pick "the" winner. :ThmbUp:

[cmoore]

This is the best and most concise explanation I can recall seeing that explains why one should not view handicapping a race as an attempt to pick "the" winner. :ThmbUp:

Your right..It's not about picking the most winners..It's about consistently finding the horse that is an overlay in your eyes..I seem to pick the overlay in races that finish 2nd through 4th often..Now I just need to find a way to plug these runners into exotic bets. It took me awhile to realize this..Now that I have. It's time to change my approach..

[sobrenatural]

my wife holds me back

[LottaKash]

my wife holds me back

Perhaps "honey-girl", knows what is best ?....:jump:

best,

[cmoore]

my wife holds me back

I seem to do best when my girl friend is at work and I have full concentration..No..Are you going to do this or that??.Or, are you going to sit in there all day?

[sobrenatural]

I took her to the track when we first started dating..I lost $150 and she won $23,,she said to me"that was easy how long as this game been going on"I never went with her again!

[eastie]

Your right..It's not about picking the most winners..It's about consistently finding the horse that is an overlay in your eyes..I seem to pick the overlay in races that finish 2nd through 4th often..Now I just need to find a way to plug these runners into exotic bets. It took me awhile to realize this..Now that I have. It's time to change my approach..

time to start betting the board..eliminate the 2 faves and go from there.use the guys in the 6-1 to 14-1 range to win it with your guy to be there.....lotsa value. some of my best hits have been taking price guys with my guys to whom i am alive underneath. After running second and third so many times while alive in the pick 4. I started trying it. Lotta value and little thinking to get it. My brother says it's outdoor bingo, but the taxman says, "keep it up"

[Overlay]

Good post.
This is the best and most concise explanation I can recall seeing that explains why one should not view handicapping a race as an attempt to pick "the" winner. :ThmbUp:

Thanks for the positive feedback. I think that the practice of detecting and exploiting favorable straight or exotic wagering situations (wherever in a race field they might occur), in which the odds or payout offers an advantage to the player in light of the actual chances of cashing the bet, is still largely unappreciated and underutilized. (Not that there would be any reason for concern about it being more widely employed, since it can't be bet into unprofitability or obsolescence, as eventually happens to any one-factor/spot-play angle or elimination-type system.) Once a person can get past the question, "Why would I even consider playing a horse or combination other than the one that I think has the greatest chance of coming in?", and understand the principle and criticality of wagering with a positive expectation, it opens the door to full exercise of the possibilities created by the pari-mutuel system.

[dav4463]

For anyone interested, here is one way to put it into practice playing exactas. It costs $24 per race and you should play races where you do not have the favorite as your top choice. Rank your horses in order of your most likely winner: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7.

Play:

$2 exacta 1-2 (as long as they are not 1-2 betting favorites, if they are, go to next choice)

$1 exacta box of the two high odds of your top 3 choices

$1 exacta wheel: 1 with (high odds between 2-3) and (two high odds between 4-5-6-7)

$2 exacta wheel: (two high odds 1-2-3) with (three high odds 4-5-6-7)

$1 exacta wheel: (high odds of 4-5-6-7 under the other three)

Total cost $24



Use in wide-open races where you think at least three horses have a legitimate chance to win. Many times you will hit the exacta multiple times, which is good!

Also, if the race is really wide open and you do not have the favorite in your top four... you can add $6 and play your (high odds of top 4 wheeled both over and under the other three top choices).

Anybody else have some $24 strategies that are similar or better? I would like to see them.

[Grits]

Nothing.

Keep excellent records.

Have focus; sometimes too much.

Have patience.

Have discipline. Plenty of it. Have always had.

Not above getting upset when I lose for several races, or even days in a row. Readily admit it. (Its a hard game.)

Money's not a problem. Owned my business for 22 years, so yeah, manage money pretty good.

Ticket building skills aren't too good. (One's better off realizing one's weaknesses.) Not sure I want to even learn a lot of ticket building skills. Wins and exactas are good. Maybe a Pic3 once in awhile. Others--moneyburners. Lord, they're moneyburners.

Don't play for action or my health. Play for money.

Don't play "too many" races. Play some.

Don't play "too many" tracks. Play two--max. (And that's only if there're good days overlapping . . . say, Saratoga and Million Day at Arlington.

Have handicapping knowledge (of course, always room for more.) One can be sure, wouldn't be playing this game if I didn't. Don't think any of us would. We'd be broke, shortly.

Lastly, and probably best of all--don't have a spouse looking over my shoulder watching what I may, or may not be, spending, winning, or losing.

My interest, my time, my money. LOLOL

[CincyHorseplayer]

I just wanted to throw this out there to see if it changes the perspective.

Have you ever played when it counted???When and if you have ever been laid off or work slows down and there was a definite impetus on winning??

I have noticed that I work better in a crisis and I think the reason is,is that I'm completely consumed.I still have a solid game when I play on the weekends but there is a definite feel of entertainment value to it,which is totally cool,but nothing like the focus of being backed into a corner!!

To change the topic a little;if you had to win,what would hold you back from doing so???

[Overlay]

To change the topic a little;if you had to win,what would hold you back from doing so???

I can't speak from personal experience in that regard, but, based just on my own personality, I would want to guard against "analysis paralysis" (letting the increased pressure cause me to keep trying to re-validate what my normal handicapping model was telling me to the point where I would hesitate to pull the trigger (especially at higher odds) by either not betting at all or not betting as much; or else getting into a conspiratorial frame of mind -- especially after a tough loss -- where I would stop relying on objective analysis and start looking for the horse that "they" had decided was going to win the next race. I think that my handicapping is set up to avoid those pitfalls as much as possible under normal circumstances, but the increased consequences of failure might tempt me to veer off in those directions.

[dansan]

bankroll holding me back anyone care to fund my account :ThmbUp:

[CincyHorseplayer]

I can't speak from personal experience in that regard, but, based just on my own personality, I would want to guard against "analysis paralysis" (letting the increased pressure cause me to keep trying to re-validate what my normal handicapping model was telling me to the point where I would hesitate to pull the trigger (especially at higher odds) by either not betting at all or not betting as much; or else getting into a conspiratorial frame of mind -- especially after a tough loss -- where I would stop relying on objective analysis and start looking for the horse that "they" had decided was going to win the next race. I think that my handicapping is set up to avoid those pitfalls as much as possible under normal circumstances, but the increased consequences of failure might tempt me to veer off in those directions.

Well that was my whole point.Under pressure I don't degenerate and have my imagination defeat me.I've played the game enough to where I don't crumble under pressure.It's stressful because it takes a lot of time and energy but if the psychological factor is what is holding you back,you're in the wrong game.

Overlay,I am not a pro.But over the course of time I'm starting to believe I might have the makings of being able to do this and be successful.I was just wondering how other players felt when winning was not just a luxury.

[cmoore]

Well that was my whole point.Under pressure I don't degenerate and have my imagination defeat me.I've played the game enough to where I don't crumble under pressure.It's stressful because it takes a lot of time and energy but if the psychological factor is what is holding you back,you're in the wrong game.

Overlay,I am not a pro.But over the course of time I'm starting to believe I might have the makings of being able to do this and be successful.I was just wondering how other players felt when winning was not just a luxury.

A big bankroll for betting and 1 year of living expenses set aside would be nice..I've been off work for 7 weeks now and it seems to me that the losing streaks are harder to take..The reason being is I don't have work to break things up. I've learned that you have to have other hobbies and can't bet everyday..You will get burned out quickly. The second guessing will hit you hard when the losing streaks occur. It's a tough game already. When you add the pressure of trying to make money that pays the bills. Now that is something that only 1 out of every 200 do over the long haul imo..I've also learned that patience is key and waiting for those horses that stick out are a must. When you think you have an over lay. You have hit those type of horses hard. You have to raise your bet size and lower the number of bets you make. One day I will make the plunge. Just not right now..

[CincyHorseplayer]

A big bankroll for betting and 1 year of living expenses set aside would be nice..I've been off work for 7 weeks now and it seems to me that the losing streaks are harder to take..The reason being is I don't have work to break things up. I've learned that you have to have other hobbies and can't bet everyday..You will get burned out quickly. The second guessing will hit you hard when the losing streaks occur. It's a tough game already. When you add the pressure of trying to make money that pays the bills. Now that is something that only 1 out of every 200 do over the long haul imo..I've also learned that patience is key and waiting for those horses that stick out are a must. When you think you have an over lay. You have hit those type of horses hard. You have to raise your bet size and lower the number of bets you make. One day I will make the plunge. Just not right now..

Your entire post makes sense but the first sentence is absolute truth.You have to have the money to bet and to live so you can sink into your mental comfort zone.

I have learned by trial and error.I have spent anywhere from 1 to 4 months at the track with,after the first few failed attempts,good results.I'm on the cusp of making that plunge.It's been on my brain for about a year.I'm finding I get more burnt out doing something else.The horserace game keeps me fresh and lively,regular life is stale and salty.

That's just my take.I've been ripped to shreds on here for talking about it,so I'm done and am bracing for a verbal pickling!!!

[cj]

Lack of a Twitter account.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Lack of a Twitter account.

:lol:

[Grits]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

CJ, I swear you're good! You can see more, with less, than anyone I know.

LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[riskman]

bankroll holding me back anyone care to fund my account :ThmbUp:

Call up one of the traders at Goldman Sachs. There is a rumor that they are posting $3.44 billion in second-quarter profits, and are earmarking $11.4 billion in compensation and bonuses for its employees? Our tax dollars pulled them out of their losses so a donation of a few grand to fund your bankroll should not be a problem.

[Grits]

To change the topic a little;if you had to win,what would hold you back from doing so???
HAVING to.
Well that was my whole point.Under pressure I don't degenerate and have my imagination defeat me.I've played the game enough to where I don't crumble under pressure.It's stressful because it takes a lot of time and energy but if the psychological factor is what is holding you back,you're in the wrong game.

Its a fine compliment that one can perform well under pressure--when one has no work, is unemployed, or getting by on an unemployment check. I'm not sure I consider myself in the wrong game, though, given I'm one who--wouldn't be found within 100 miles of racetrack, a casino, a dog track or any other "chance venue" if I were unemployed.

I could not, or would not, ever spend money I don't have to lose. Money that's aside from, or dedicated to, monthly or yearly responsibility.

[CincyHorseplayer]

HAVING to.


Its a fine compliment that one can perform well under pressure--when one has no work, is unemployed, or getting by on an unemployment check. I'm not sure I consider myself in the wrong game, though, given I'm one who--wouldn't be found within 100 miles of racetrack, a casino, a dog track or any other "chance venue" if I were unemployed.

I could not, or would not, ever spend money I don't have to lose. Money that's aside from, or dedicated to, monthly or yearly responsibility.

Well if there is the assumption of loss you are absolutely correct.You don't end up going back for 3-4 months if you're getting your butt kicked.

My comments were geared towards people that have had success and know the ins and outs of the game,not towards people who are so scared of failure they never make the attempt and are defeated before they walk in the door.

[Grits]

My comments were geared towards people that have had success and know the ins and outs of the game,not towards people who are so scared of failure they never make the attempt and are defeated before they walk in the door.

CMoore was quite realistic in his post. I was trying to be honest in my own. And it had nothing to do with fear.

Successful business, men and women, entrepreneurs, either own, or they're employed by, or retired from, in your own words, the stale and salty. They didn't get there by fear or assuming failure and defeat. Familiar with the old adage, "scared money; makes no money".

And too,"You Get What You Give" (great song, by the way) is a good jumpstart for any horseplayer with "dreamer's disease."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD6il4cEEfs&feature=related

[CincyHorseplayer]

CMoore was quite realistic in his post. I was trying to be honest in my own. And it had nothing to do with fear.

Successful business, men and women, entrepreneurs, either own, or they're employed by, or retired from, in your own words, the stale and salty. They didn't get there by fear or assuming failure and defeat. Familiar with the old adage, "scared money; makes no money".

And too,"You Get What You Give" (great song, by the way) is a good jumpstart for any horseplayer with "dreamer's disease."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD6il4cEEfs&feature=related

You are definitely not a winning horseplayer if this is your take on it.

And BTW I'd rather have dreamer's disease than loser's disease.You're contempt for people actually trying to win is disgusting.

[Grits]

You are definitely not a winning horseplayer if this is your take on it.

And BTW I'd rather have dreamer's disease than loser's disease.You're contempt for people actually trying to win is disgusting.

Contempt, I don't think so.

CH, I encountered a lifetime/fulltime horseplayer, here, recently. He was well spoken with an extraordinary intellect, genuinely honest--he did something not witnessed online, he backed up his talk seven ways from Sunday, along with his record. Some accused forgery . . . like he cared. LOLOL

Cadillakin had confidence and success written all over him, knowing the game backwards, forwards, inside and out. Of course, as one would anticipate, this irritated many. He had more @#$% thrown at him than any player I can ever recall on a message board.

Not that anyone cares, but what set him apart?

Aside from his skill, his confidence and his intellect, what more than told the story on him--he didn't flinch.

He didn't back off a single time. He was totally unflappable; nothing riled him. The man had it in spades.

Hopefully, you'll learn the same.

It wasn't my intention to anger you--all horseplayers are dreamers . . . . I thought that was something every player had no problem admitting.

By the way, the song, ie, the phrase, "dreamer's disease" was the music for a long running commercial promoting horseracing and horse ownership. I figured you were familiar with it.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Contempt, I don't think so.

CH, I encountered a lifetime/fulltime horseplayer, here, recently. He was well spoken with an extraordinary intellect, genuinely honest--he did something not witnessed online, he backed up his talk seven ways from Sunday, along with his record. Some accused forgery . . . like he cared. LOLOL

Cadillakin had confidence and success written all over him, knowing the game backwards, forwards, inside and out. Of course, as one would anticipate, this irritated many. He had more @#$% thrown at him than any player I can ever recall on a message board.

Not that anyone cares, but what set him apart?

Aside from his skill, his confidence and his intellect, what more than told the story on him--he didn't flinch.

He didn't back off a single time. He was totally unflappable; nothing riled him. The man had it in spades.

Hopefully, you'll learn the same.

It wasn't my intention to anger you--all horseplayers are dreamers . . . . I thought that was something every player had no problem admitting.

By the way, the song, ie, the phrase, "dreamer's disease" was the music for a long running commercial promoting horseracing and horse ownership. I figured you were familiar with it.

That's cool.There are so many on here that preach 30 bet losing streaks and this is an unbeatable game that you have to be guarded if you actually want to talk about beating this beast we all love.I have done it part time,I'm just wondering how other players have made the leap.Somebody is winning this game because it is winnable.Poker players are front and center and talk about it,live it,breathe it,are it.I think the closed mouth nobility of the horseplayer is a stereotype that should be put to bed.It seems in this game that losers want to dictate the ethics to everybody else.I'm not calling you that.But on this board it's readily apparent.Great resource,but mention you think it could be an honest trade and the wolves come to the surface.In fact I'm leaving before I end up crucified:lol:

[jonnielu]

Contempt, I don't think so.

CH, I encountered a lifetime/fulltime horseplayer, here, recently. He was well spoken with an extraordinary intellect, genuinely honest--he did something not witnessed online, he backed up his talk seven ways from Sunday, along with his record. Some accused forgery . . . like he cared. LOLOL

Cadillakin had confidence and success written all over him, knowing the game backwards, forwards, inside and out. Of course, as one would anticipate, this irritated many. He had more @#$% thrown at him than any player I can ever recall on a message board.



Gee Grits, I've always thought I was ahead by four on that.

BTW, does your handle stand for, Girls Raised In The South?

jdl

[Grits]

Jdl, you run a close 2nd, no doubt about it.:lol:

And yes, that's exactly what GRITS means for this Carolina native.;)

[CincyHorseplayer]

Jdl, you run a close 2nd, no doubt about it.:lol:

And yes, that's exactly what GRITS means for this Carolina native.;)

I thought it was "Geriatric Retardation Is The Solution"??!!:lol:

[Grits]

I thought it was "Geriatric Retardation Is The Solution"??!!:lol:

Cincy for many, many years there was a sign on my refrigerator.

It said: She can go from 0 to BITCH in .3 flat.

You just broke the record, you got it in .2'nchange.

You're talkin' to (what I believe) may be the only mother of a retarded child, here, on the board. He's 32, has Down Syndrome, about 3 years younger than yourself. And at this point in time, he's not only kinder, but looking a whole helluva lot smarter.

I hope you're only teasing, but one just never knows when that teasing can come back and take a big bite outta one's @$$.

Think about it. ME. One person, outta 10K members. And you pick ME.:lol:

Stop playing horses, darlin', your luck sucks.:lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

He had more @#$% thrown at him than any player I can ever recall on a message board.I've been doing this for just about 10 years now...so I seriously DOUBT that....lol

[LottaKash]

I've been doing this for just about 10 years now...so I seriously DOUBT that....lol

I agree with you on that PA....Cincy always seemed to me, to be a pretty straight shooter....I think his comment was just a "tongue in cheek" thing....At least that is what I perceived...

best,