another disgrace for horse racing

[lamboguy]

philadelphia first race today, MSW 2YO

they had to declare this a no race because they opened the gate before every horse got loaded. there was a horse being yanked at the gate. i just hope all is alright with the jocks and the horses.

just another day at the office in a local horsetrack near you

[anglemaster]

I have never seen where not only they spring the gate with one horse out, but two horses were not even close to be loaded.
I need a job, just maybe there will be a Starter job available. LOL

[anglemaster]

Since I am picking on Phillie Park, how in the world can any oddsmaker, make the #6 in the second race have a m/l of 5-1. Incompetent.

[ddog]

that's funny.

WHy don't we do away with the gates and just have a guy with a rope across the track , when he drops it everyone takes off!

I like it. saves the tracks money and makes for an exciting start.


Philly and Pen , gosh I wasn't sure they still ran meets!
:D

[Greyfox]

Obviously a sloppy mistake. But...not the end of the world.

"to err is human, to forgive is divine."

[ddog]

I have never seen where not only they spring the gate with one horse out, but two horses were not even close to be loaded.
I need a job, just maybe there will be a Starter job available. LOL



You seem over qualified for the job, sorry.

After all you did manage to get a sensible post up on the site here.

Sorry, you are not what we are looking for at this time!
:lol:

[ryesteve]

I have never seen where not only they spring the gate with one horse out, but two horses were not even close to be loaded.
I recall some years ago at Saratoga, this happened in a NY-bred stakes race. One of the horses that hadn't been loaded was the favorite, so as a make-up, they carded an additional NY-bred stakes later in the meet... and it ended up being won by the same horse who won the original race. Thus a very non-descript horse became the answer to the trivia question, "Who was the first horse to win two $100k stakes races at one Saratoga meet?"

[anglemaster]

I wonder if there is a problem with the starting gate. 2nd race seems to be delayed , and hard to believe a starter could be so wrong.

[DanG]

The first day / I believe the 1st race after Gulfstream's track renovation they started the race with a runner still behind the gate….AND DID NOT DECLARE IT A NON-RACE!. :faint:

Refunded the poor smucks who weren’t yet loaded, but the dynamics of the race completely changed. Still waiting for the first reply after questioning this decision and it was certainly an accurate prelude to the Stronach era. :rolleyes:

[senortout]

Backus is a bet-against, bears out, wants no part of this.

[Marshall Bennett]

Makes you almost wonder if they experienced some sort of momentary power failure , or are having power issues . Loss of power allows the gates to spring . You would think there would be some safety device to prevent such , who knows ?

[senortout]

There are now 5, 6, or seven of peoples staring at that ole gate, like that's gonna fix it....


And oh yeah.....even Thistledown has a spare gate for times like these...

[cj's dad]

The delay has now reached 1 hour and 10 minutes.

I'm wagering they are 15 minutes from pulling the plug, so to speak.

[senortout]

holy craperoonies, they do have a spare gate, which they are now tractoring into place.....duh

[senortout]

Now, a few more minutes to repair that one......

[senortout]

now they called the 2nd race official.....but have yet to post results....I think they are trying to decide whether to refund all double tickets, or just the tickets that had the winner of the 2nd race correct!...
quick, anyone know the rule on that one? (should be a no-brainer, auto refund all dd tickets)

[senortout]

Track may well be responsible for paying off the purses in that 1st race, too, so anything they can keep legally they will try to keep. After all, the owners of the winners can't be responsible for the gates opening correctly...they must pay the purse!

ok, he just said the reason for the delay...there will be a consolation dd, but two of the horses did not get out well when the gates opened prematurely, necessitating 3 separate consolation doubles...(should that not be (5) consolation doubles...wait, never mind scratch that now I'm confused.

[anglemaster]

Gee I guess they did not have enough time , between the first and second race, to decide what they would do.

[Rookies]

What a FUBAR !


Deux races run by incompetents. Nice start.

[Imriledup]

Penn National and now The Pha, what's wrong in the great keystone state?


Keystone cops stuff.

[Doc]

Ok, I just found out from my buddy who works at Philly Park what happened (this is almost verbatim what he wrote to me): A gate malfunction caused the gate to open before three horses had been loaded. They declared the race a "no contest." Because the main starting gate has been screwed up for over a year and they have been using the auxillary gate, they didn't have a gate to use, so they had the electricians out there. The horses for the 2nd were in the paddock for 75 minutes. They finally got the second race off 85 minutes late. The race is STILL not official because they can't figure out the daily double and because they fired everyone in the mutuel dept. Bill Barnes (dept. head) is trying to do everything himself.

[castaway01]

Ok, I just found out from my buddy who works at Philly Park what happened (this is almost verbatim what he wrote to me): A gate malfunction caused the gate to open before three horses had been loaded. They declared the race a "no contest." Because the main starting gate has been screwed up for over a year and they have been using the auxillary gate, they didn't have a gate to use, so they had the electricians out there. The horses for the 2nd were in the paddock for 75 minutes. They finally got the second race off 85 minutes late. The race is STILL not official because they can't figure out the daily double and because they fired everyone in the mutuel dept. Bill Barnes (dept. head) is trying to do everything himself.

Thanks for the info Doc.

[Pace Cap'n]

Ok, I just found out from my buddy who works at Philly Park what happened (this is almost verbatim what he wrote to me): A gate malfunction caused the gate to open before three horses had been loaded. They declared the race a "no contest." Because the main starting gate has been screwed up for over a year and they have been using the auxillary gate, they didn't have a gate to use, so they had the electricians out there. The horses for the 2nd were in the paddock for 75 minutes. They finally got the second race off 85 minutes late. The race is STILL not official because they can't figure out the daily double and because they fired everyone in the mutuel dept. Bill Barnes (dept. head) is trying to do everything himself.

Please keep the reports coming. That's the funniest stuff I've read this year.

[irwinm]

this is getting ridiculous - had the winner in race 2 and it is now 3 hours later and no payout. I don't understand why they can't pay out the pool at this point?

[fmolf]

Makes you almost wonder if they experienced some sort of momentary power failure , or are having power issues . Loss of power allows the gates to spring . You would think there would be some safety device to prevent such , who knows ?
i have been an electrician all my life..In prisons the fail safe method is all dors lock on a power failure...if the gate functions on a button that cuts power to the gate then they need a device that locks the gate on a power failure just like in prisons.this can easily and cheaply be done with just a few more relays.thank goodness none of the assistant starters were in front of the gates when they opened.Where all the horses and jocks in the gate ready when they sprung the latch?

[cj's dad]

this is getting ridiculous - had the winner in race 2 and it is now 3 hours later and no payout. I don't understand why they can't pay out the pool at this point?

More than likely management is checking with their law firm of Dewey- Fleecem and Howe !!

[senortout]

fmolf: no they were not...one jockey, naturally unprepared for the start since there were 3 more yet to load, fell off immediately when gates sprung, another nearly went down and it seemed to sorta get stuck in there for a second or two....bad deal all around....if the reports of the back up gate not being usable are correct its a sad day for racing.

just a note, I got a 'back-up pair of glasses' but now that I lost my good pair I can't find 'em!

senortout

[SansuiSC]

This is something I have never seen in the decades I have been in the sport. Still waiting on a double payout myself as we all know the first became an "all" race.
Then because of the delay there were 2 late scratches in the second. There has to be another consulation for the all/&2 late scratches I would assume for both the double and pick 3.

Isn't there a time that they have to close out the parimutual day by? How could they pay these out tomorrow?

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the firing of the parimutal dept.

SSC

[Marshall Bennett]

i have been an electrician all my life..In prisons the fail safe method is all dors lock on a power failure...if the gate functions on a button that cuts power to the gate then they need a device that locks the gate on a power failure just like in prisons.this can easily and cheaply be done with just a few more relays.thank goodness none of the assistant starters were in front of the gates when they opened.Where all the horses and jocks in the gate ready when they sprung the latch?
Seems from the replay all the gates sprung open , thats why I suspect a power issue . I'm not sure of the electronics involved in their operation . Could be that if they were powered by 220 volts , a sensor would allow them to spring at a drop to say 24 volts , thus a complete loss would not cause them to open , they will only open with a 24 volt current . Whatever the cause , it was a disgrace to the track with all that followed . Can you imagine the fiasco had this been the Breeders Cup , although I'm sure they have plenty of backup well maintained . Nothing in this game surprises me anymore .

[dave the horseman]

every month in the pa racing commission minutes, at least 3 times they write that "problems with the 14 position gate have been addressed" but continue to use auxillary gate.

Nuts. Am trying to remember if for the AC meet if they brought the PHA gates down or if they had gates at ACRC, if so it would make sense just to bring the damn ACRC gate up here, it's not currently the great " AC Turf Festival"

[Imriledup]

i have been an electrician all my life..In prisons the fail safe method is all dors lock on a power failure...if the gate functions on a button that cuts power to the gate then they need a device that locks the gate on a power failure just like in prisons.this can easily and cheaply be done with just a few more relays.thank goodness none of the assistant starters were in front of the gates when they opened.Where all the horses and jocks in the gate ready when they sprung the latch?

Maybe Chris Harn could help em with that.

[statik27]

wasn't it in the PA oaks a couple of years ago that the starter let the field go with a filly still behind the gate? I think it was a half-sister to secret status, thats why I remember it.

statik

[cj's dad]

Manufacturers name omitted

xxxxxx has two optional operating systems. Either a 'manual' or 'electric' system can be fitted to any of the gates produced from 1 up to 22 stalls.'The manual system is a simple and cost effective method of releasing the gates, that is used mostly on smaller gates of either fixed or mobile construction. The system is set by the pulling down of a handle until it reaches the starting position. To release the manual lever is lifted, and the gates opened by the resulting pressure injected into the hydraulic system.

The electric operating system is set in a similar way to that of the manual. An accumulator is pulled down into its starting position with the assistance of a lever. Once set an indicator light turns on to acknowledge the system is ready for a start. The operator can then use the 15 meter extension cord to walk into any position he pleases before pressing the starting button to release the gates.

Another optional extra is to have remote control of the starting operation. The system is set in the same way, but then a cordless remote control can be carried to within 20 meters of the gate in order to activate the release of the barrier.

The xxxxxx system also has multiple optional back up methods in the unlikely event the gate fails to open. For example if the remote was to fail, the starters handle with extension cord can be used. If this fails there is a manual starting strap that can activate the system. And if this fails, a completely independent system can be activated and used with the starting strap. Due to its reliability, there has never been a need to use all of these emergency backup options! However, short of being able to provide a guarantee against starting failure, xxxxxxx has by far more backup options than any other operating system around.

[onefast99]

Wow 8:25pm and the results of the 1st race at PP are still no where to be found. I would imagine someone is on vacation and cannot be reached to decide if they are going to do a full refund or a partial. Tune in tomorrow same bat time same bat channel to see if the caped crusaders in the pari-mutuel office are able to figure this one out. Maybe the joker is still alive!

[senortout]

hey bud, all bets were refunded on the first race it was declared a no contest

[onefast99]

hey bud, all bets were refunded on the first race it was declared a no contest
Thanks for the info I didn't know they declared it a non-event, what time did they do that?

[KingChas]

Penn National and now The Pha, what's wrong in the great keystone state?




Not a thing, slots just needed a little extra juice,
so they borrowed it from the horseplayers.
:lol:

[samyn on the green]

It is a shame that the slots have to supplement this "animals run in a circle"non-sense. Surely the people of Pennsylvania have voted with their dollars and prefer the more reliable slots game. While the slots are packed and rake millions daily for the state. horse racing loses money and is expensive to run. Time to shut down this waste of tax money called horse racing down.

[KingChas]

Surely the people of Pennsylvania have voted with their dollars and prefer the more reliable slots game. .

Now New Yorkers will get the same option wit Aqueduct. ;)

[louisianawoman]

It has always amazed me that a person can get a reading on all being lined up and ready at the same time. It is a difficult job to say the least. Everyone is due an error every once in a while.

[Java Gold@TFT]

I also remember the $100K stakes at Saratoga when two got left behind the gate before loading. It cost the starter his job. I'm pretty sure it was one of the Cassidy's - Marshall's dad or uncle? He was pretty old at the time and he needed to retire anyway so they just quietly let him go.

I think the race was in the mid 80's and maybe the first purse of that size for state breds. It still is only rivaled by the Allameuse DQ.

[Doc]

The starter who left the horse behind in the gate at The Pha for the stakes was Rusty Downes. He got canned not long after that happened. Here's the story:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/30827/philadelphia-park-starter-tenders-resignation

[fmolf]

Manufacturers name omitted

xxxxxx has two optional operating systems. Either a 'manual' or 'electric' system can be fitted to any of the gates produced from 1 up to 22 stalls.'The manual system is a simple and cost effective method of releasing the gates, that is used mostly on smaller gates of either fixed or mobile construction. The system is set by the pulling down of a handle until it reaches the starting position. To release the manual lever is lifted, and the gates opened by the resulting pressure injected into the hydraulic system.

The electric operating system is set in a similar way to that of the manual. An accumulator is pulled down into its starting position with the assistance of a lever. Once set an indicator light turns on to acknowledge the system is ready for a start. The operator can then use the 15 meter extension cord to walk into any position he pleases before pressing the starting button to release the gates.

Another optional extra is to have remote control of the starting operation. The system is set in the same way, but then a cordless remote control can be carried to within 20 meters of the gate in order to activate the release of the barrier.

The xxxxxx system also has multiple optional back up methods in the unlikely event the gate fails to open. For example if the remote was to fail, the starters handle with extension cord can be used. If this fails there is a manual starting strap that can activate the system. And if this fails, a completely independent system can be activated and used with the starting strap. Due to its reliability, there has never been a need to use all of these emergency backup options! However, short of being able to provide a guarantee against starting failure, xxxxxxx has by far more backup options than any other operating system around.
thanks for the info....but what i am talking about is the safety override which in the event of a power failure the gates would remain closed.the starters button operates two relays the one that controls the gate and bypasses the overide.The safety override automatically locks the gates shut upon a power failure preventing what took place yesterday.

[Doc]

Here's the official chart for that infamous second race, with descriptive editorial content by the chartcaller:

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant_pdf.cgi?type=inc&country=USA&track=PHA&date=2009-07-06&race=2

[castaway01]

Here's the official chart for that infamous second race, with descriptive editorial content by the chartcaller:

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant_pdf.cgi?type=inc&country=USA&track=PHA&date=2009-07-06&race=2

Doc, when I was a lurker, you were one of my favorite posters. I appreciate this post because the Philly chart caller always shoots from the hip. You're a good guy, and we need more posts from guys like you.

[Whodoyalike?]

The first day / I believe the 1st race after Gulfstream's track renovation they started the race with a runner still behind the gate….AND DID NOT DECLARE IT A NON-RACE!. :faint:

Refunded the poor smucks who weren’t yet loaded, but the dynamics of the race completely changed. Still waiting for the first reply after questioning this decision and it was certainly an accurate prelude to the Stronach era. :rolleyes:

I have seen this at Penn National. One horse was stuck in the gate, so the stewards refunded wagers on that horse. I agree with you, it did change the dynamic of the race. It was explained to me that it was no different than a late scatch right at post time.

[Doc]

Castaway, thanks for the kind words! The chartcaller at Philly and I have been friends for 20 years or more, he used to be a lot more descriptive with his footnotes but on more than one occasion was told to "tone it down" by his superiors. Some of my favorite phrases that he uses are "under a death grip" (to describe a jockey holding a horse); "displaying vast improvement in speed and racing ability" (to describe a horse with horrible form suddenly winning a race) and "a very long gate load caused the race to go off X minutes past the scheduled post time." He and I share a mutual disdain for Philly Park management; we shared a big laugh about this latest gate malfunction.

[SaratogaSteve]

I also remember the $100K stakes at Saratoga when two got left behind the gate before loading. It cost the starter his job. I'm pretty sure it was one of the Cassidy's - Marshall's dad or uncle? He was pretty old at the time and he needed to retire anyway so they just quietly let him go.

I think the race was in the mid 80's and maybe the first purse of that size for state breds. It still is only rivaled by the Allameuse DQ.

Very good - it was George, his uncle, and I think they let him finish the meet, and replaced him upon return to Belmont...

I found an article that mentions it --> http://www.equicizer.com/images/equicizer.com/default1.aspx?contentName=News&news=1&newsId=195

it's way at the bottom, and nicely features Frank Lovato Jr. Good stuff.

[cj's dad]

thanks for the info....but what i am talking about is the safety override which in the event of a power failure the gates would remain closed.the starters button operates two relays the one that controls the gate and bypasses the overide.The safety override automatically locks the gates shut upon a power failure preventing what took place yesterday.

there are two types of fail safe electrical systems used in industry:

1- Fail open
2- Fail closed

This system has to be designed to stay closed upon a power failure.
I have never seen a one-line diagram detailing how the system would be implemented but it just couldn't be that complicated.

FYI- Master's license since 1985.

[InTheRiver68]

Philly "fixed" their gate problem. I suppose they have until spring to repair or replace their old gates before they have to return the loaner.

- InTheRiver68