Munnings

[MickJ26]

Munnings looked ultra-impressive again in the Tom Fool.
7 furlongs looks like his distance.
Assuming he takes the Kings Bishop, does Pletcher shoot for the BC Mile or the BC Sprint or neither?

[toussaud]

sprint.

I don't think he' Grade 1 calibur miler.

I don't think it's a given he is going. he didn' show up on the same surface last year.

[cj]

Who are the G1 milers?

Of course on synthetics, they are probably racing on turf right now.

[MickJ26]

Maybe Pletcher eschews the BC and goes for the Grade 1 Cigar Mile?
Can Munnings get the mile distance and do it sub-1:35?

[Stevie Belmont]

I think a mile would suit Munnings just fine. The Cigar Mile is in late November, and I think it's a race he would be a good fit for...Long way off though.

Will see action before that, probably the Forego or something before.

He looked awesome on the track before yesterdays Tom Fool.

[point given]

Who are the G1 milers?

Of course on synthetics, they are probably racing on turf right now.

Cool Coal Man won the mile Salvatore at Monmouth saturday wiring the field. Last year in the Haskell he lost by 2 1/2 L to Big Brown. I don't know if it was a win and your in race or not, or if he would like Pro ride at SA, but he's a miler at 2 turns.

[Stevie Belmont]

Coal Play won it..

Another one that could target the Cigar Mile...Knowing Nick and a NY Guy...that could be a goal..

Yea it was a "Win And Youre In" race...
Cool Coal Man won the mile Salvatore at Monmouth saturday wiring the field. Last year in the Haskell he lost by 2 1/2 L to Big Brown. I don't know if it was a win and your in race or not, or if he would like Pro ride at SA, but he's a miler at 2 turns.

[the little guy]

sprint.

I don't think he' Grade 1 calibur miler.

I don't think it's a given he is going. he didn' show up on the same surface last year.

Please give me the list of the supposed Grade 1 milers that would be favored over him at a mile on a dirt track. I'm guessing it's a reasonably short one......probably contains zero horses.

By the way, he did in fact run on the same surface in last year's BC Juvenile.

[ghostyapper]

Please give me the list of the supposed Grade 1 milers that would be favored over him at a mile on a dirt track. I'm guessing it's a reasonably short one......probably contains zero horses.

By the way, he did in fact run on the same surface in last year's BC Juvenile.

At a mile on dirt I'd put my money on these before him

Well Armed
Smooth Air
Thepamplemousse
Indian Blessing
Commentator

But he is definitely a G1 miler.

[DanG]

Hats off to Baffert and Pletcher sprinting ‘Zensational’ and ‘Munnings’ like they were born to do. We run so many 3yo’s beyond their optimum distance in our country its frightening. ‘Groovy’ ran in the Kentucky Derby for goodness sakes. :faint:

Top class animals like this who can finish at 7f will normally have no problem with a one turn / or pace aided 2-turn mile. But…part of getting our breed back in order is accepting the fact that BC sprint champion Speightstown (Munnings sire for example) is throwing terrific sprinters. That should be celebrated and not judged as a ‘character flaw that must be “proven” wrong by constantly stretching out his offspring. I realize this is internet idealism and these are revenue driven decisions, but…

Sprinters sprint / miler’s mile / distance horses run in our classic races and stayers get drilled by the great Yeats at Royal Ascot.

BTW: The much maligned ‘Dunkirk’ was the workmate of Munnings for much of his stay in Florida and Dunkirk handled him almost every time as another indication of his quality.

[the little guy]

At a mile on dirt I'd put my money on these before him

Well Armed
Smooth Air
Thepamplemousse
Indian Blessing
Commentator

But he is definitely a G1 miler.


Well Armed, much as I would be happy to book him, is at least reasonable. Commentator is certainly very capable on his good days.

The others are funny. Thanks.

[classhandicapper]

Well Armed, much as I would be happy to book him, is at least reasonable. Commentator is certainly very capable on his good days.

The others are funny. Thanks.

I'm not entirely convinced that Munnings is better than Smooth Air yet. Given how lightly raced he is, I'm sure he'll be better than him soon if he isn't already. But I thought Smooth Air's last race was better than it looked. He can run.

Thepamplemousse was running too early in the season and against the grain of the track earning figures that aren't comparable with dirt to know how good he is (or could have been), but he clearly wasn't good enough at that time.

[the little guy]

I'm not entirely convinced that Munnings is better than Smooth Air yet. Given how lightly raced he is, I'm sure he'll be better than him soon if he isn't already. But I thought Smooth Air's last race was better than it looked. He can run.

Thepamplemousse was running too early in the season and against the grain of the track earning figures that aren't comparable with dirt to know how good he is (or could have been), but he clearly wasn't good enough at that time.


I'm going to assume, and maybe I am wrong, that you are confused about what Smooth Air's last race was.

The original question I asked was which horses would be favored over Munnings at a mile. The answer that person gave contained perhaps one horse, MAYBE two, that fit that category.

[classhandicapper]

I'm going to assume, and maybe I am wrong, that you are confused about what Smooth Air's last race was.

The original question I asked was which horses would be favored over Munnings at a mile. The answer that person gave contained perhaps one horse, MAYBE two, that fit that category.

Yep, I didn't notice his race in the Salvator until your note, but it doesn't change my opinion of him all that much. In the Met, it looked like he had a very good trip, but IMO he moved too soon during what was a pretty hot pace and was probably best that day. In the Salvatore, at quick glance it looks like the winner walked for the first 1/2 mile and was impossible for him to catch.

Munnings beat a 4 horse field with a pretty easy trip. I would make him 1-5 or 2-5 to be better than Smooth Air very soon. Perhaps he would be solidly favored over him now, but if they raced next out I'd take Smooth Air at the price. IMO, there's not much difference right now even if I'm on the wrong end of it.

[the little guy]

Did you watch the Salvator? He looked absolutely awful in the stretch. I wouldn't touch him after that performance.

[tribecaagent]

Referring to who will be "favored" against Munnings, the answer is no one. Referring to who will beat Munnings on dirt, going a mile, the answer quite possibly could be Zensational.

[classhandicapper]

Did you watch the Salvator? He looked absolutely awful in the stretch. I wouldn't touch him after that performance.

I didn't watch it yet, but the winner was loose and crawled the first half, picked it up strong in the 3rd quarter, and then came home OK. I think it would have taken a very good horse to beat that winner. I'll watch it later.

[point given]

Coal Play won it..

Another one that could target the Cigar Mile...Knowing Nick and a NY Guy...that could be a goal..

Yea it was a "Win And Youre In" race...

Thanks. I get those Coal horses mixed up. Of course he loves monmouth 5 311 and zito hates synthetics so it will be interesting to see if he will enter him.

[toussaud]

why would I send you a list of horses that are better tha he is at a mile on dirt, when the breeders cup is not on dirt? the point in that?


And I think that field he faced at Belmont Did flatter his abilities just a tad. although he is quite the talent.

let's not forgot that the defending BC "dirt" mile champion is still in training.

[the little guy]

why would I send you a list of horses that are better tha he is at a mile on dirt, when the breeders cup is not on dirt? the point in that?





Here is the post you made that I was responding to....


sprint.

I don't think he' Grade 1 calibur miler.

I don't think it's a given he is going. he didn' show up on the same surface last year.


I responded to you saying he was not a " Grade 1 caliber miler. " This is what you stated. You did not say he wasn't a likely winner of the BC Mile and 70 yards on a synthetic surface.

[SaratogaSteve]

I thought it was an absolute shame Fabulous Strike scratched out of the race.

[DanG]

I thought it was an absolute shame Fabulous Strike scratched out of the race.
I agree from a betting and fan perspective Steve, but I respectfully disagree for the animal and his connections. The shame of it is if he pointed for the Vanderbilt all along it would have made it easier to get a few more in the gate.

This horse (with all his infirmities and age) wants no more then 6f unless he can be the absolute boss. Munnings was going to run him down at 7f Sunday regardless of the pace scenario imo and Driven by Success on paper at least figured to be noticed up front.

Beattie’s done an amazing job holding this horse together with hard work and duct tape. Some Thoroughbred Times quotes: http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/July/05/Fabulous-Strike-scratched-from-Tom-Fool.aspx

"He's doing great," Beattie said. "[But] we weighed out the positives and negatives. I have a lot of respect for Munnings and we were giving him 11 pounds today. With the difference in weight, drawing the one hole, and going seven furlongs, we just felt there wasn't a lot working in his favor. He ran a monstrous effort four weeks ago.

"The Vanderbilt going three-quarters is a much better distance for him," Beattie said. "Some extra time will be good for him."

[ghostyapper]

This horse (with all his infirmities and age) wants no more then 6f unless he can be the absolute boss. Munnings was going to run him down at 7f Sunday regardless of the pace scenario imo and Driven by Success on paper at least figured to be noticed up front.


I don't know about that, FS is one tough dude. Kodiak Kowboy (who I consider a better 7 furlong horse than Munnings) needed the length of the stretch to run him down in the Carter and that was after a sub 44.2 half

[toussaud]

Here is the post you made that I was responding to....





I responded to you saying he was not a " Grade 1 caliber miler. " This is what you stated. You did not say he wasn't a likely winner of the BC Mile and 70 yards on a synthetic surface.

but the OP asked about the BC sprint or the BC Dirt mile. Not the Cigar mile.

[DanG]

I don't know about that, FS is one tough dude. Kodiak Kowboy (who I consider a better 7 furlong horse than Munnings) needed the length of the stretch to run him down in the Carter and that was after a sub 44.2 half
Fair point on FS; I overstated his limitations. I would as a rule however try and beat him in most graded races over 6f at this point in his life however; given his usual odds.

[the little guy]

but the OP asked about the BC sprint or the BC Dirt mile. Not the Cigar mile.


And there's another thread here about Ridglings ( a personal favorite of mine let me add ).

Like I said, I was responding to your comment that said he wasn't a Grade 1 miler. I appreciate that you, apparently, attribute seerlike qualities to me.....but I'm honestly not that clever.

[SaratogaSteve]

I agree from a betting and fan perspective Steve, but I respectfully disagree for the animal and his connections. The shame of it is if he pointed for the Vanderbilt all along it would have made it easier to get a few more in the gate.

This horse (with all his infirmities and age) wants no more then 6f unless he can be the absolute boss. Munnings was going to run him down at 7f Sunday regardless of the pace scenario imo and Driven by Success on paper at least figured to be noticed up front.

Beattie’s done an amazing job holding this horse together with hard work and duct tape. Some Thoroughbred Times quotes: http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/July/05/Fabulous-Strike-scratched-from-Tom-Fool.aspx

Dan, thanks, I'm commenting from a fan perspective. I think back to the days of King's Swan, Love That Mac, Gulch, etc. could knock heads at various distances several times a year. That rarely happens anymore.

[Stevie Belmont]

He would smoke everyone of those right now...


At a mile on dirt I'd put my money on these before him

Well Armed
Smooth Air
Thepamplemousse
Indian Blessing
Commentator

But he is definitely a G1 miler.

[Stevie Belmont]

Great post...


I agree from a betting and fan perspective Steve, but I respectfully disagree for the animal and his connections. The shame of it is if he pointed for the Vanderbilt all along it would have made it easier to get a few more in the gate.

This horse (with all his infirmities and age) wants no more then 6f unless he can be the absolute boss. Munnings was going to run him down at 7f Sunday regardless of the pace scenario imo and Driven by Success on paper at least figured to be noticed up front.

Beattie’s done an amazing job holding this horse together with hard work and duct tape. Some Thoroughbred Times quotes: http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/July/05/Fabulous-Strike-scratched-from-Tom-Fool.aspx

[RockHardTen1985]

Munnings is now a strong candidate for the Haskall. Todd says he will make a decision based on his horse, and if Rachel runs or not is irrelevant.

As for who would be favored/who could beat Munnings going 1 mile. I would say Bribon is a serious miler. Quality Road and Storm Play, both in the Pletcher barn now are also both pretty good and proven. Munnings has never won going further then 7.

[classhandicapper]

He's a nice horse, but I'll be looking to bet against him off his last trip. He's very good and it's going to be tough to find someone to take against him, but he's not as good as he looks.