Downs After Dark Promotion succeeding

[senortout]

Downs After Dark at Churchill tonight's attendance 33481 this is a record for attendance other than....

Derby Day
Oaks Day
Breeders Cup days

pretty impressive in these times

go CD!

senortout

[toussaud]

LMAO @ fans who thought that $10 admission was horrible for "promoting new fans" and "showed what was wrong with racing"

just the biggest crowd outside of Derby oaks and BC day. that's all.

makes you think. how much of horse racings problems are self inflicted wounds by people who still have that woe is type thinking..

Can't blame kentucky for not passing slots. there are things we can do outside of "slots" to have a profitable business model.. like I dnt' know... market to people who have jobs by racing at night.. but we won't. that's not the taxayers problem we are too old and purist in our thinking.

[JustRalph]

When people bitched about the 10 dollar charge I mentioned they were trying to control the door.....standard stuff at high end venues. They obviously called it right. Good for them.........

[Irish Boy]

LMAO @ fans who thought that $10 admission was horrible for "promoting new fans" and "showed what was wrong with racing"

just the biggest crowd outside of Derby oaks and BC day. that's all.

makes you think. how much of horse racings problems are self inflicted wounds by people who still have that woe is type thinking..

Can't blame kentucky for not passing slots. there are things we can do outside of "slots" to have a profitable business model.. like I dnt' know... market to people who have jobs by racing at night.. but we won't. that's not the taxayers problem we are too old and purist in our thinking.

YES!

[kev]

I think the past two night racing was $6.00.

[Tampa Russ]

I think the past two night racing was $6.00.

And by now the word was out on how to get in for a buck, which is all part of the plan. $2 beer from 4 to 8p. Getting people into the the track and doing the best you can do to assure that they have a good time and keep coming back is all good to me. Getting them involved to the point where they have a significant positive impact on handle...now that would really impress me.

On a side note, the majority of my horse wagering buddies no longer want to be at the track on the odd day when a larger crowd is in attendance. I always point out that they tell me they long for the days when racing was big, but they themselves avoid the track on big days. For me, I just love the energy of a large and enthusiastic crowd. And really, I can just call in a wager to TwinSpires(etc) if the lines are too long.

[Relwob Owner]

LMAO @ fans who thought that $10 admission was horrible for "promoting new fans" and "showed what was wrong with racing"

just the biggest crowd outside of Derby oaks and BC day. that's all.

makes you think. how much of horse racings problems are self inflicted wounds by people who still have that woe is type thinking..

Can't blame kentucky for not passing slots. there are things we can do outside of "slots" to have a profitable business model.. like I dnt' know... market to people who have jobs by racing at night.. but we won't. that's not the taxayers problem we are too old and purist in our thinking.


I dont think I posted about it but man, was I wrong about the admission fee.....nice points Toussaud...you make a great point when you mention trying things outside of slots that create a successful business model.

I see the good bad with slots but the definite bad I have seen is that it really does give management no reason to improve the product. In a perfect world, you could combine the money that slots generates with effective management that creates revenue outside of the slots but I guess that is a dream....

[Cangamble]

I still don't get it. Night racing in Toronto started way back when at Greenwood. The crowds weren't that significant, and when Woodbine got lights for the thoroughbred track to race on Wednesday nights, again, there was no major change.
Now on Wednesday nights, Woodbine gets their worst handle of the week usually.
Maybe it is a reflection of the fact that WEG has done a piss poor job making horse racing interesting to the public, at least interesting enough to go to the track live.
But again, they do have slots open 24/7 as well. And they did implement HPI (their ADW) quite a while back, so they've trained people to bet from home.
Still with the vastness of Woodbine's home market, their $200,000 a race handle during the week is pretty shameful.
On Wednesday, it was a holiday, and they were smart enough to race during the day instead, and they had handle of over $300,000 per race.

[lamboguy]

I still don't get it. Night racing in Toronto started way back when at Greenwood. The crowds weren't that significant, and when Woodbine got lights for the thoroughbred track to race on Wednesday nights, again, there was no major change.
Now on Wednesday nights, Woodbine gets their worst handle of the week usually.
Maybe it is a reflection of the fact that WEG has done a piss poor job making horse racing interesting to the public, at least interesting enough to go to the track live.
But again, they do have slots open 24/7 as well. And they did implement HPI (their ADW) quite a while back, so they've trained people to bet from home.
Still with the vastness of Woodbine's home market, their $200,000 a race handle during the week is pretty shameful.
On Wednesday, it was a holiday, and they were smart enough to race during the day instead, and they had handle of over $300,000 per race.as great a place as woodbine is they should be doing $30 million in handle on a wednesday. part of the problem is what you preach the highway robery takeout there. but its not the only problem or the main problem.

[Rapid Grey]

Did not attend the first two Downs after Dark but went last night. Late arriving crowd that kept coming and coming and coming. Reminded me of Keeneland on a crowded Saturday, with lots of eye candy. Paddock was a zoo with a loud band blaring music not far from the horses....I'm sure they enjoyed that. Should have saved the band to play afterwards since it was obviously a younger crowd with the majority there to socialize and not to gamble. Having the band play afterwards would have made traffic more manageable as well, but once the last live race was over they pretty much just shut everything down, the bands and music, simulcasting, concessions, etc.. Traffic around the Downs was the worst part of it, little to no help from Churhill or LMPD to ease the flow, pretty much every driver for themselves. I've gotten home from Derby's and BC days quicker than I did last night.

They've got some kinks to work out but have to admit seeing the horses under the lights, with the crowd into it, was pretty exciting.

[tribecaagent]

How about CD's outstanding product? The races are contentious with full fields....it seems like every race last night was decided inside of the 1/16th pole. How good is the new track announcer? That guy is superb. How about the graphics package in-between races? How about the creativity in terms of new wagering menu?....

They just get it.

[strapper]

pretty impressive, guess it means we'll see more of it

Downs After Dark at Churchill tonight's attendance 33481 this is a record for attendance other than....

Derby Day
Oaks Day
Breeders Cup days

pretty impressive in these times

go CD!

senortout

[macguy]

I still don't get it. Night racing in Toronto started way back when at Greenwood. The crowds weren't that significant, and when Woodbine got lights for the thoroughbred track to race on Wednesday nights, again, there was no major change.
Now on Wednesday nights, Woodbine gets their worst handle of the week usually.
Maybe it is a reflection of the fact that WEG has done a piss poor job making horse racing interesting to the public, at least interesting enough to go to the track live.
But again, they do have slots open 24/7 as well. And they did implement HPI (their ADW) quite a while back, so they've trained people to bet from home.
Still with the vastness of Woodbine's home market, their $200,000 a race handle during the week is pretty shameful.
On Wednesday, it was a holiday, and they were smart enough to race during the day instead, and they had handle of over $300,000 per race.


I still have to think you'd get a bigger crowd on a Friday compared to a Wednesday night. Lots of people out on dates and night's out on a Friday. They can stay out late and sleep in on Saturday. I often wonder if Woodbine would be better off trying Friday nights and Wednesday afternoons instead.

[Cangamble]

I still have to think you'd get a bigger crowd on a Friday compared to a Wednesday night. Lots of people out on dates and night's out on a Friday. They can stay out late and sleep in on Saturday. I often wonder if Woodbine would be better off trying Friday nights and Wednesday afternoons instead.
They won't get by the harness people who run on Friday nights. And their crowds aren't too great.

[jballscalls]

I thought this was interesting as well. Seems the photo finish machine wasn't working last night, so they declared 2 dead heats

http://www.drf.com/news/article/105182.html

[point given]

And by now the word was out on how to get in for a buck, which is all part of the plan. $2 beer from 4 to 8p. Getting people into the the track and doing the best you can do to assure that they have a good time and keep coming back is all good to me. Getting them involved to the point where they have a significant positive impact on handle...now that would really impress me.

On a side note, the majority of my horse wagering buddies no longer want to be at the track on the odd day when a larger crowd is in attendance. I always point out that they tell me they long for the days when racing was big, but they themselves avoid the track on big days. For me, I just love the energy of a large and enthusiastic crowd. And really, I can just call in a wager to TwinSpires(etc) if the lines are too long.

You got it. Years ago Gulfstream had concerts on the weekends during the day during racing , fit in between, and racing fans, horses etc had problems getting into the track. Then they found that music goers bet like $5--10 .pp

I wonder what the track handle was on these nights compared to days,but CD doesnot publish this anymore, however now they disclose the attendance for these nights. Whats the point if they don't bet ?

[jballscalls]

Whats the point if they don't bet ?

getting people to the track for live racing is rarely a bad thing if they bet or not. beer sales, food sales, program sales, and other stuff as well. plus if they bet $2 dollars, thats two more than if they weren't there. Also if they have a good time, hopefully they will come back and maybe start learning about the game.

[FenceBored]

You got it. Years ago Gulfstream had concerts on the weekends during the day during racing , fit in between, and racing fans, horses etc had problems getting into the track. Then they found that music goers bet like $5--10 .pp

I wonder what the track handle was on these nights compared to days,but CD doesnot publish this anymore, however now they disclose the attendance for these nights. Whats the point if they don't bet ?


:bang: And handle alone is paying the bills is it?


From the Lexington Herald-Leader
The on-track handle of $1,607,760 for the first outing was nearly $1 million better than the corresponding Friday the previous year. The second card produced similar results with a handle of $1,534,308 compared with $687,324 to the corresponding date in 2008.

-- http://www.kentucky.com/302/story/851038.html

[point given]

:bang: And handle alone is paying the bills is it?




From the Lexington Herald-Leader The on-track handle of $1,607,760 for the first outing was nearly $1 million better than the corresponding Friday the previous year. The second card produced similar results with a handle of $1,534,308 compared with $687,324 to the corresponding date in 2008.


-- http://www.kentucky.com/302/story/851038.html


That IS great.

Thanks for the update. Will start playing there on these nights.

[point given]

getting people to the track for live racing is rarely a bad thing if they bet or not. beer sales, food sales, program sales, and other stuff as well. plus if they bet $2 dollars, thats two more than if they weren't there. Also if they have a good time, hopefully they will come back and maybe start learning about the game.

The florida experience was that there were traffic jams so the bettors and horses had problems getting there and the concert goers got in the way of bettors and didnot crossover over time and added very limited handle. Even so, i'd take the old gulfstream with concerts in a minute. Its encouraging to see the CD experiment working on all fronts.

[Relwob Owner]

That IS great.

Thanks for the update. Will start playing there on these nights.


In addition to the huge on track attendance numbers, the real genius of the move seems to be the off track aspect....on a Friday night, Churchill stands out as a betting option and I have heard that it is having a huge negative effect on business for the other Friday night tracks.

[Irish Boy]

Whats the point if they don't bet ?

Anyone who could say this doesn't get the huge perception problem facing horse racing. It's not takeout or breakage or any of those things (though yes, I'd love improvement on all that.) It's a matter of not being embarrassed to attend.

You need families, kids 18-29, couples, etc. You need to make it a place that someone curious who has never been to a horsetrack wouldn't be ashamed to consider. You'll get handle eventually if you improve those things.

As for the harness comparison- fair or not, harness racing is a very ridiculous looking sport, and I think that turns a lot of people off. Also, and this sounds silly, but it's absolutely true: nothing simple would improve the image of horseracing more than updating the graphics shown on the track feeds. Lots of tracks (Delaware off the top of my head, but many others) have graphics that give off a 70s porno vibe. Updating these things would cost practically nothing and have a significant effect in reaching new people.

[PaceAdvantage]

I still don't get it. Night racing in Toronto started way back when at Greenwood. The crowds weren't that significant, and when Woodbine got lights for the thoroughbred track to race on Wednesday nights, again, there was no major change.
Now on Wednesday nights, Woodbine gets their worst handle of the week usually.Churchill Downs IS horse country. They live and breath horses in that area of the country. I think that's one of the major factors why this has been a big success thus far....and why other tracks in other areas of the country haven't seen such dramatic impact with the introduction of night racing.

I originally thought we'd see some major drop off in attendance fairly quickly...guess I was wrong again...

[Cangamble]

Churchill Downs IS horse country. They live and breath horses in that area of the country. I think that's one of the major factors why this has been a big success thus far....and why other tracks in other areas of the country haven't seen such dramatic impact with the introduction of night racing.

I originally thought we'd see some major drop off in attendance fairly quickly...guess I was wrong again...
I was wrong too. I didn't even think this would fly to begin with. Using Toronto as an example, this is definitely a unique regional situation.
Night racing in Mountaineer, Charlestown, etc. haven't been too successful. Would it fly in New York? I'd guess no. Would it fly in any other place in North America? I still think no.

[toussaud]

I was wrong too. I didn't even think this would fly to begin with. Using Toronto as an example, this is definitely a unique regional situation.
Night racing in Mountaineer, Charlestown, etc. haven't been too successful. Would it fly in New York? I'd guess no. Would it fly in any other place in North America? I still think no.

compaing mountineer to churchill is like comparing Jennifer Love Hewitt to Grandmama

[FenceBored]

compaing mountineer to churchill is like comparing Jennifer Love Hewitt to Grandmama

compaing mountineer to churchill is like comparing Grandmama to Jennifer Love Hewitt

There, fixed it for you. Otherwise we'd have to assume that mountaineer is Jennifer Love Hewitt. By the way Churchill has been doing the sad concerned looks like the Ghost Whisperer for some time, so that's a good choice. :lol:

[FenceBored]

From the Herald-Leader's turf writer's blog:
On-track handle:

June 19 - $1,607,759; June 20, 2008 - $620,983. Variance: $986,776. %Difference: +158.9%

June 26 - $1,534,308; June 27,2008 - $687,324. Variance: $846,984. %Difference: +123.2%

July 2 - $1,763,341; July 3, 2008 - $646,472. Variance: $1,116,869. %Difference: +172.8%

-- http://horseracing.bloginky.com/2009/07/03/final-figures-for-churchill-night-racing/ (http://horseracing.bloginky.com/2009/07/03/final-figures-for-churchill-night-racing/)

The post also contains the off-track, and attendance comparisons.