If Secretariat were racing today

[WinterTriangle]

I'm quite sure he would be "taken way" from Lucien Lauren's barn.

What do you think?

[Imriledup]

All depends on the owner. Some owners are very loyal.

[ManeMediaMogul]

No way. Mrs. Chenery is a magnificent woman, a knowledgeable horseperson and really seemed fond of Mr. Lauren.

Besides, was somebody gonna make Secretariat better? The horse was "a tremendous machine."

There are hundreds of competent trainers on the backside who never get lucky enough to have a horse of that caliber, but it doesn't mean that they couldn't do a good job with him.

When a trainer develops a horse into a Grade 1 horse, chances are they know what they are doing. A prime example would be Curlin. Based on her performance with Einstein, Helen Pitts-Blasi would have had just as much success with Curlin as Steve Asmussen. Hal Wiggins would have won the Preakness with Rachel Alexandra too. This is not to deminish Asmussen, who was under tremendous pressure getting these two ready-made horses and he couldn't afford to blemish their records.

Owners who jump ship when horses aren't winning are mostly kidding themselves. Usually it is a case of the horse not being as good as the owner's estimate and/or the owner having too much input with the trainer. When things go bad, somebody has to take the fall to ausage the owner's ego, and it is usually the trainer.

[tucker6]

All depends on the owner. Some owners are very loyal.
Chenery was very loyal. Rather than Laurin, I could see the mount taken from Turcotte. Ron "allowed" Secretariat to run his own race more often than not, and was just a passenger. How many jocks do that today, or are allowed to do that without being fired?? Fortunately, Laurin also believed in Sec running his own races to some degree. Turcotte would have been crucified on here for the madness of the clubhouse turn in the Preakness, and how Sec was lucky to have held on for the win in spite of his jockey. Not knowing of course that Ron didn't have a lot to do with it. Secretariat was the rare horse that could win from the rabbit, stalking, and deep closing positions depending on his mood that day.

[MickJ26]

Don't forget, Laurin/Turcotte also handled Riva Ridge for the Chenery family.
They didn't do too badly with him.

[andicap]

He would have much stiffer competition After all he'd be about 40 years old.

[Tom]

Yeah, Andy, that might cut his winning margin down to about 20 or so lengths. He would be running like a pretty good machine. :lol:

[Steve 'StatMan']

Would he be on Lasix and/or Bute in KY?

[joanied]

Chenery was very loyal. Rather than Laurin, I could see the mount taken from Turcotte. Ron "allowed" Secretariat to run his own race more often than not, and was just a passenger. How many jocks do that today, or are allowed to do that without being fired?? Fortunately, Laurin also believed in Sec running his own races to some degree. Turcotte would have been crucified on here for the madness of the clubhouse turn in the Preakness, and how Sec was lucky to have held on for the win in spite of his jockey. Not knowing of course that Ron didn't have a lot to do with it. Secretariat was the rare horse that could win from the rabbit, stalking, and deep closing positions depending on his mood that day.

Mrs. Tweedy (Chenery) was loyal...but if Lucien hadn't already had Riva, she might not have sent him Secretariat...and she thought more than once, of changing trainers...and jockey's...she was really mad at Turcotte for one of Big Red's loses...I think maybe the Woddward (I can't recall:blush: now)...but it wasn't Turcotte's fault he got beat...Secretariat had a horrible abscess in his mouth...they shouldn't have run him like that, and what made it worse...Lucien never told Turcotte about it. Penny & Lucien did butt heads quite often.
Secretariat needed to run his won races...I recall before the Preakness 'everyone' was worrying about the (so called) sharp turns at Pimlico, and the fact Big Red came from out of it, on the outside, so many thought the Pimlico track would be a disadvantage for the colt...so what does Secretariat do...decides all on his own he was gonna move sooner than expected and put on the afterburners right there...because he felt soooooo good, he simply had to go...and Turcotte, surprised as hell with this...did the right thing and let the bog hoss roll:ThmbUp:
That move still brings tears to my eyes:jump:

[rastajenk]

"If Secretariat were racing today..."

there would be a few people on the internet bashing him for not beating anybody good, or not having faced a gut-check stretch drive, or ducking somebody, or anything along those lines. ;)

[joanied]

"If Secretariat were racing today..."

there would be a few people on the internet bashing him for not beating anybody good, or not having faced a gut-check stretch drive, or ducking somebody, or anything along those lines. ;)

:lol: You just made my day:ThmbUp:

[CincyHorseplayer]

"If Secretariat were racing today..."

there would be a few people on the internet bashing him for not beating anybody good, or not having faced a gut-check stretch drive, or ducking somebody, or anything along those lines. ;)

No it would be that he only raced a total of 20 horses in the Triple Crown series and he's ducking everybody with the summer break:lol:

[FenceBored]

"If Secretariat were racing today..."

there would be a few people on the internet bashing him for not beating anybody good, or not having faced a gut-check stretch drive, or ducking somebody, or anything along those lines. ;)
It's true! Look at the comment on Forego's Ky Derby PP line "Hit rail far turn." HE HAD AN EXCUSE and Secretariat knew it, too. That's why the big red chicken ducked Forego the rest of the year and then ran off to hide behind the mares!

But seriously, if you haven't done it, get ahold of a copy of The Lfe and Times of Secretariat on DVD and just watch all his races back to back. We've got an Afleet Alex DVD from Gainesway, but mysteriously the races that don't show him in the best light seem to be missing. :) Makes me wish there were more commercially available DVDs like that. All the races of Native Dancer, or Kelso. How great would it be to have one of Colin vs. Fair Play.

Heck, it would be nice to see a service that would put together a professional quality DVD of every race for a requested horse. There are some 'never weres' I'm sentimentally attached to that I would pay a reasonable price for a DVD of their races.

[joanied]

It's true! Look at the comment on Forego's Ky Derby PP line "Hit rail far turn." HE HAD AN EXCUSE and Secretariat knew it, too. That's why the big red chicken ducked Forego the rest of the year and then ran off to hide behind the mares!

That's a good :lol: one!!
Actually it's a shame Big Red was wisked off to the farm so soon...hooking up with Forego, once Forego became Forego (gelded) would have been incredible stuff.
No tellin' how good Secretariat would have been as a 4 year old...same with Man O War...

I have that Big Red video...in VHS...maybe I'll look around and see about buying the DVD...shouldn't cost too much, eh! Be fun to see it again.
Have you read any of the books about Secretariat...best one would be 'The Horse that God Built' (Lawrence Scanlan)...excellent read.

[FenceBored]

I have that Big Red video...in VHS...maybe I'll look around and see about buying the DVD...shouldn't cost too much, eh! Be fun to see it again.
Have you read any of the books about Secretariat...best one would be 'The Horse that God Built' (Lawrence Scanlan)...excellent read.

Haven't read "The Horse that God Built," but I keep thinking of getting it and the book on Sham, "In the Shadow of a Superhorse." I just checked the price on Amazon for the Secretariat DVD. :faint: It's been a couple of years, but I KNOW I didn't pay $50 bucks for it.

[Jeff P]

If Secretariat were running today...

I can envision several converstations taking place here on PA. With apologies beforehand to any PA posters who might be offended... PLEASE understand that what I'm about to post is done tongue in cheek and meant as my own attempt at humor... also note that Ted Craven of RDSS and Pktruckdriver were both gracious enough to give me their go ahead after reading this post via PM earlier today... Also note that the reference to Goldman Sachs comes from the Great American Bubble thread currently going on in the off topic area - and that you might get more enjoyment out of this post if you read that thread and the article first.


If Secretariat were running today... here's what a handful of PA threads might look like:



Conversation #1... the weeks leading up to the Triple Crown...

Jeff P: Takeout is too high. It's been preventing handle growth for the better part of a decade now.

Track Mgt: Takeout isn't high enough. Besides, we put on the show.

Woodbine: If you bet the Belmont through HPI and hit the tri you don't get the payoff from the American track. You get the payoff you would have gotten if the Belmont had been run at Woodbine. That's actually good for racing because those Americans with their 26 percent trifecta takeouts don't charge quite enough. We have to level the playing field by charging 27.3 percent.

THG: We're not letting anybody bet the Triple Crown this year through an ADW because our percentage cut of signal fees isn't high enough.

ABC, ESPN, NBC: We're not covering the Triple Crown this year. Nobody cares anymore. We're showing Championship Bowling instead.

THG: Just as well. Nobody should be forced to watch 20 horses go around in a circle. That's simply barbaric... Now 5 horses? We can RELATE to THAT. But nobody should be forced to watch 20 horses race.

YouBet: We're offering free past performances on all three legs of the Triple Crown and we're offering a free handicapping contest with $10,000 in prize money.

TwinSpires: Our video is in HD and we have a $500 sign up bonus.

Track Mgt: ADWs are just sucking the life out of this industry.







Conversation #2... the night before the Belmont...

RichieP: Here are past performances for tomorrow's Belmont. Using The Matchup as taught to me by Jim Bradshaw and readouts from RDSS I kind of like this Secretariat horse.

Tom: I like Secretariat too.

Partsnut: Tom, I agree with you. But I still think RDSS sucks.

Tom: No. It doesn't.

Maxpa: Goldman Sachs! Hey, just wanted to give everyone a heads up about the new VIP horse selection service available from Goldman Sachs! I'm giving the service a trial run. I can't speak about their win rate and roi... but I can tell you they do have people who answer the phone and everybody I've spoken with so far seems polite and highly knowledgeable about horse racing. And while I'm not explicitly endorsing them I do want to make you aware of what they offer. Check them out for yourself!

Pktruckdriver: I signed up for the VIP tout sheet at Goldman Sachs and they gave out Secretariat as a lock. And after seeing RichieP's matchup analysis and his RDSS screenshots I decided that tomorrow I'm going to bet three truck payments on him to SHOW. I also spent two hours earlier today trying to get my laptop to boot up. I really wanted to see what horse HSH picked but finally gave up because the power supply on my laptop burned up about a month ago.

Dave Schwartz: :bang: :bang:






Conversation #3.... a few days after the big race...

Andy Mays: I hate synthetic surfaces. Here's a link to an article in The Blood Horse about this year's Belmont. I thought the quote from Bob Baffert about synthetic surfaces was especially relevant:

Bob Baffert quoted from the article: After watching him run the opening 6 furlongs in 1:09 3/5, I thought to myself: he would have stopped if the race we're run on Polytrack... but he didn't stop. He just kept going... and when the announcer said something about him moving like a tremendous machine I thought today just might be his day.

Cadillakin: Handicapping synthetic surfaces isn't nearly as hard as some people think.

BillW: More from the article:

Stan Greenham, former analyst for Goldman Sachs who sat in as one of the NYRA stewards at Belmont Park that fateful Saturday: Of course we had to disqualify Secretariat and place him last. He ran the other horses off their feet. We stand by our call. It was the correct thing to do given the circumstances.

Glenn Englehardt, MBA and current analyst for Goldman Sachs: Of course we didn't know ahead of time Secretariat would be disqualified. But we had large show bets on all the other contenders in the race just in case. What, you think we're in this to lose money?

Don Smith, editor for the Blood Horse: I recently learned that Goldman Sachs made a donation to NYRA in the amount of $11.2 million. In exchange for the donation NYRA agreed to employ a team of former Goldman Sachs analysts as stewards for this year's Belmont. I also learned that Goldman Sachs VIP tout sheet clients lost more than $178 million in show wagers on the race and that the firm of Goldman Sachs itself made more than $140 million in show pool profits from the race when Secretariat was disqualified and placed last.

Jeff Mullins quoted from an earlier Blood Horse article: All bettors are idiots.

Jonnielu: Patrick, I'm sorry you and all the other chumps lost. But that will only stop happening to you once you decide to pay attention to what happens in racing.

Shoeless Joe: Richie, nice call on the race! He won by 30! Too bad you got robbed.

Tom: Everybody at Goldman Sachs should be lined up and shot. Pigs.

Partsnut: Tom, I agree with you. But I still think RDSS sucks.

Tom: No. It doesn't. And the top brass at NYRA should be lined up and shot too.

46zilzal: Lasix is a dieuretic with a long history of abuse. I've read no fewer than 816 pharmacological studies all indicating it has no use whatsoever in racing. Only the HORSE matters - improving speed and NOTHING else. The most IMPORTANT aspect in all of racing.

Indulto: I think what HANA needs to do is poll it's membership to see how many bet on Secretariat. And of those who did, how many received a rebate? And of those who received a rebate, would they have bet more if the rebate had been replaced with a reduction in takeout? And of those who didn't receive a rebate, would they have bet more if the race had been shown on ABC instead of bowling? Or if they had shown up on track and been given a free poster? Clearly HANA lacks vision and needs to take on a more active role in engaging its membership. Further, I question their activities and motives in relation to their stated purpose.

Jeff P: :bang: :bang:

Hjack Hillstrom: Carry On Carry On.





-jp

.

[PaceAdvantage]

You forgot DrugS: I laughed.

That was great Jeff! Thanks for the laughs! :lol:

[HuggingTheRail]

Thanks for the laugh...the only thing missing in conversation 3 is an invite from Penn National to bet the race

[tucker6]

Just a small OOPS in the second conversation. There were no show bets in Secretariat's Belmont.


Otherwise, great job :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Bruddah]

If Secretariat were running today, they would make him carry 135#, spot the rest of the field a 1/16th head start and make him lope backwards. He would then go off at odds of even money. :eek:

Weight for age handicaps would be hard on him at almost 40 years old.

[DJofSD]

If Big Red was running today, the major debate would be about if he'll like the plastic dirt.

[Marshall Bennett]

The way owners and trainers scratch their horses when a Rachel Alexandra or something simular runs , if Secretariat were running today he'd likely be running alone .

[tucker6]

If Secretariat were racing today, we'd be comparing him to Sham, the 1973 TC winner.

[eastie]

Secretariat wore blinkers

[tucker6]

Secretariat wore blinkers
Bad move by the trainer. He'll never win with blinkers on. What is he thinking??

Secretariat has three socks. I bet he has bad feet. I think his loss in the Woodward could have been due to quarter cracks. Anybody hear anything on the backstretch??

We could come up with a million of these.

[strapper]

Secretariat's good days were the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. He could've beaten any horse ever when he ran to his best. Just awesome to see!

[joanied]

Jeff P,

You should write for TV shows or something....brilliant and very funny...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[magwell]

Truth be told..... if Big red was racing today Goldman Sachs would buy him for 50 million before the race then package him up and sell him to pension funds and foreign banks for 850 billion. The the New York Stewart's would then scratch him before he came to the paddock because trainer Dutrow went into the holding barn without permission of barn security. Then the government would bail out Goldman Sachs for 2 trillion........:rolleyes:

[framarco]

If Big Red was still running today, so would Forego, Shecky Greene, Wajima, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, Alydar, Spectacular Bid, et al. They would be running on the "Champions Tour" and they would all be involved in some stupid Reality Show with Paris Hilton!

Lets remember how great Big Red and all the other great horses of the 70s were. We'll never see their likes again!

[bane]

...He would go to stud right after the Belmont.

[Marshall Bennett]

...He would go to stud right after the Belmont.
Even worse . Kent D. would have been aboard and he would have lost the Belmont . :)

[rastajenk]

"...He would go to stud right after the Belmont."

...possibly with some mysterious, career-threatening ailment.

[tucker6]

...He would go to stud right after the Belmont.
sadly, you are incorrect. They would probably string us along during the summer with visions of another big race just head, which would vanish a few days before with a scratch. THEN, just as we would be questioning their motives, he would retire with a hangnail injury and go to stud with everyone giving their dutiful "aw shucks" voice overs. :bang:

[tucker6]

Even worse . Kent D. would have been aboard and he would have lost the Belmont . :)
Either Secretariat would have died from strangulation or Kent would have died from exhaustion. What would the odds be at Ladbrokes on a Sec/Kent death match?? :lol: