Woodbine Turbo Charged Pool Not Working Out

[Cangamble]

Woodbine is putting in $150,000 new money when the pool gets hit on Sundays (the only day they offer the Pick6)

Because of their 25% takeout, they need $600,000 in new money for every average pool to break even.

It attracted $140,000 in new money Queen's Plate Day, but it was hit.
They put in another $150,000 yesterday, and it got hit, and only attracted $50,000 in new money (so far they are down $115,000 plus $137,000 in two weeks).

Because they give out 30% to 5 of 6ers, the reality is that if no one hit yesterday, the carryover would have only been slightly over $150,000 for next week, so if only $50,000 is bet a week, the pools will not go any higher regardless, so their visions of $500,000 being bet on a big carryover will be hard to achieve at these levels because the pool has no chance of growing unless at least $100,000 or more is bet when the pool is $150,000.

Total handle was average too yesterday, just 2.4 million.

I can see Woodbine canceling this idea soon.

Is it the polytrack or do the masses avoid Woodbine overall because of the takeout?

Meanwhile, I had quite a thrill yesterday. I bet $24 on the Pick 6. 3 by 2 by 1 by 1 by 1 by 2. I was alive onto the second and co third favorite in the last. The favorite won, and only one person had the pick. It paid just over $150,000.

It wasn't that hard either but because there were only 25,000 tickets played on it, and a 3-5 shot (that I didn't use) who went down in the second leg, one winner was all there was to be had.

At least I finish second or third in the last leg (losing by a head or a nose would have been devastating). One of my horses checked out of and the other gave me a cheap thrill around the far turn only to flatten out in the stretch.

I got back slightly over $300 for 5 out of 6 twice.

Of course, if I would have got lucky in the last, I would have temporary financial freedom. It would have been nice.

[Cangamble]

Pick 6 math doesn't add up. There was a huge delay after the last yesterday, I wonder if they made a mistake.

There was $150,000 Canadian seeded by Woodbine. Pool according to DRF was $51,388. I always thought that this is a gross amount, though it doesn't state what percentage of it was Canadian dollars or US dollars.

70% of the total pool goes to the winner. 30% to consolation winners.

Obviously there was one winner, but the price was $153,884.20.
How is that even possible?

70% if $150,000 is $105,000 Canadian.
Even if the $51,388 was a net amount after takeout, and lets even assume the winner was Canadian but all the $51k in new money was American. Still only $35,971.60 American (which equals around $40,876 Canadian) would be added to the $105,000.

This just doesn't add up, and obviously all the new money couldn't have been American, maybe half.

On top of that, someone on another board, said that the probable showing for the winner at Twinspires was just over $23,000.:confused::confused::confused::confused::c onfused:

[fmolf]

Pick 6 math doesn't add up. There was a huge delay after the last yesterday, I wonder if they made a mistake.

There was $150,000 Canadian seeded by Woodbine. Pool according to DRF was $51,388. I always thought that this is a gross amount, though it doesn't state what percentage of it was Canadian dollars or US dollars.

70% of the total pool goes to the winner. 30% to consolation winners.

Obviously there was one winner, but the price was $153,884.20.
How is that even possible?

70% if $150,000 is $105,000 Canadian.
Even if the $51,388 was a net amount after takeout, and lets even assume the winner was Canadian but all the $51k in new money was American. Still only $35,971.60 American (which equals around $40,876 Canadian) would be added to the $105,000.

This just doesn't add up, and obviously all the new money couldn't have been American, maybe half.

On top of that, someone on another board, said that the probable showing for the winner at Twinspires was just over $23,000.:confused::confused::confused::confused::c onfused:
It may be a combination of the takeout in their exotic pools and polytrack that keeps people away.the takeout on w/p/s bets is low.I personally do not make any wagers ever on poly races.

[Sid]

Or it could have little to do with either takeout or synthetic surface. Always an interesting concept.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

How could WDB ever expect this to work?

Whoever was behind this idea is a nitwit.

You can't try and promote a bet that has to attract big bettors and then tell the big bettors...."you guys can't bet"

Rebate bettors can't bet

Entire state of Nevada can't bet

The bettors haven't even arrived at the track in CA yet...the P-6 player capitol of North America

Numerous hubs and racetracks in the US don't have WDB on their wagering menu.

Seeding one pool a week at a unfamiliar venue where all other races are unplayable due to takeout is not going to excite anybody that is a professional player enough to make them go out of their way to bet on this.

The $24, $48, $96 etc. tickets just can't make this promotion work. It's great for the guys betting those tickets as they get a tremendous overlay, but the track gets fractured and will stop the bonus very quickly. Therefore, horseplayers get the racetrack rhetoric of "we tried to help the horseplayer but they didn't support us" bullshitt.

[Cangamble]

I think most ADW's take Woodbine now. And some do give rebates.

Still, for the life of me, I can't figure out how it paid $157,000 yesterday based on the $150,000 seed and the $51,000 pool money (which has to be before takeout I would imagine).

[Bison]

I got back slightly over $300 for 5 out of 6 twice.



I got the 5 out of 6 as well, and then it seemed to take about an hour to see how much they were going to pay out.

[Cangamble]

I got the 5 out of 6 as well, and then it seemed to take about an hour to see how much they were going to pay out.
I think they screwed it up. They screwed up something. The five out 6 is about right, because the last four winners were chalk. But the big payoff just can't be right based on the information available.

[Bison]

I think they screwed it up. They screwed up something. The five out 6 is about right, because the last four winners were chalk. But the big payoff just can't be right based on the information available.

Yes, I too believe something got screwed up somewhere, and this is why it took so long to make the race official.

As far as the price goes. I thought the pool was to start with $150000 and then you add the money bet into the pool to get your totals. So the payoff does almost seem correct.

[Cangamble]

Yes, I too believe something got screwed up somewhere, and this is why it took so long to make the race official.

As far as the price goes. I thought the pool was to start with $150000 and then you add the money bet into the pool to get your totals. So the payoff does almost seem correct.
They give out 70% to the winners and 30% for consolation.
70% of 150,000 equals 105,000
The other 50,000 in the pool had a takeout of 25%, leaving only 38,000 approx. in added funds, and of that too, 70% goes to the winner, and 30% to consolation ticket holders. So approximately $27,000 added to the $105,000 doesn't add up to $157,000 even using bible math.

[Bison]

They give out 70% to the winners and 30% for consolation.
70% of 150,000 equals 105,000
The other 50,000 in the pool had a takeout of 25%, leaving only 38,000 approx. in added funds, and of that too, 70% goes to the winner, and 30% to consolation ticket holders. So approximately $27,000 added to the $105,000 doesn't add up to $157,000 even using bible math.

I think the pool totals have been reported wrong. There must have been more than 50k bet into that pool. There's no way the folks at Woodbine would make an error in math that would screw themselves.

[Imriledup]

How could WDB ever expect this to work?

Whoever was behind this idea is a nitwit.

You can't try and promote a bet that has to attract big bettors and then tell the big bettors...."you guys can't bet"

Rebate bettors can't bet

Entire state of Nevada can't bet

The bettors haven't even arrived at the track in CA yet...the P-6 player capitol of North America

Numerous hubs and racetracks in the US don't have WDB on their wagering menu.

Seeding one pool a week at a unfamiliar venue where all other races are unplayable due to takeout is not going to excite anybody that is a professional player enough to make them go out of their way to bet on this.

The $24, $48, $96 etc. tickets just can't make this promotion work. It's great for the guys betting those tickets as they get a tremendous overlay, but the track gets fractured and will stop the bonus very quickly. Therefore, horseplayers get the racetrack rhetoric of "we tried to help the horseplayer but they didn't support us" bullshitt.

Large rebate shops do not take Woodbine. Its not rocket science as to why this bet is tanking.

[Cangamble]

Large rebate shops do not take Woodbine. Its not rocket science as to why this bet is tanking.
Which large rebate shops don't take Woodbine? The only rebate shops I know that don't are PTC and a really small rebate shop.

[InTheRiver68]

Perhaps the single winning wager was placed outside of North America, where the equivalent of a $1 Canadian minimum wager (as specified on the pool minimums report) is less than $1 Canadian. If the winning wager was placed in Qumar, where the minimum bet is one Qumari dollar, and the Qumari dollar is only worth 40 Canadian cents, then the single winning wager would pay (about) 2.5 times more than the payout you'd expect for a winning $1 Canadian wager.

If there were two winning wagers, including a $1 Canadian wager and a $1 Qumari wager, then the net pool would be divided by (again, roughly) 1.4 to get the $1 Canadian price. The Canadian would get a different payout than the Qumari, but they would each get a payout *proportional* to the value of their minimum bet.

The only reason the payout looks "off" is because the only winning wager came from a country where the minimum bet value, after the currency exchange rate, is less than $1 Canadian.

- InTheRiver68

second edit, in an attempt to clarify: No one is actually getting *paid* $153,884.20. That's the $1 Canadian price...the winner, in Qumar, is getting the whole 6-of-6 pool, but it's only worth 40% of $153,884.20.

It's like when a single 10c ticket wins the superfecta pool, and the $1 price is shown as $65,000, but the pool only had $8,700 in it. No one's getting PAID $65,000, they're only getting $6,500 for the one winning ticket in the pool.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Which large rebate shops don't take Woodbine?

None of the rebate shops take WDB.

Only one rebate shop ever had them, because they were an actual track, and they are gone now.

[Cangamble]

Perhaps the single winning wager was placed outside of North America, where the equivalent of a $1 Canadian minimum wager (as specified on the pool minimums report) is less than $1 Canadian. If the winning wager was placed in Qumar, where the minimum bet is one Qumari dollar, and the Qumari dollar is only worth 40 Canadian cents, then the single winning wager would pay (about) 2.5 times more than the payout you'd expect for a winning $1 Canadian wager.

If there were two winning wagers, including a $1 Canadian wager and a $1 Qumari wager, then the net pool would be divided by (again, roughly) 1.4 to get the $1 Canadian price. The Canadian would get a different payout than the Qumari, but they would each get a payout *proportional* to the value of their minimum bet.

The only reason the payout looks "off" is because the only winning wager came from a country where the minimum bet value, after the currency exchange rate, is less than $1 Canadian.

- InTheRiver68

second edit, in an attempt to clarify: No one is actually getting *paid* $153,884.20. That's the $1 Canadian price...the winner, in Qumar, is getting the whole 6-of-6 pool, but it's only worth 40% of $153,884.20.

It's like when a single 10c ticket wins the superfecta pool, and the $1 price is shown as $65,000, but the pool only had $8,700 in it. No one's getting PAID $65,000, they're only getting $6,500 for the one winning ticket in the pool.
I understand how that would work, but I'm not too sure that Woodbine takes bets in anything but US dollars or Canadian dollars. Maybe Aussie dollars, maybe.

[Cangamble]

The $150,000 only goes to someone who hits 6 of 6.

$51,000 was bet on Sunday. Add another 3500 because probably around half was bet in US funds.

$55,000 times .75 (because of 25% takeout) leaves approx. 42k in new money of which $29,000 is destined to the jackpot (70%) and 13k goes for consolation prizes(30% of the new money).

178,000 Canadian for 6 of 6. Multiply that by .88 (exchange rate) and you roughly get what the pick 6 paid.

The winner was a Yankee.

[the little guy]

A-Rod?

[Cangamble]

A-Rod?
Yeah, he was partners with Bristol Palin on the ticket.

Ducking for cover:lol:

[Cangamble]

I wonder if Willmot is going to have to give himself a pay cut:lol:

I got 5 or 6 again, but it went (probably 4 winners this time). I missed the first time, but bet $120 this time around....cashed $176.

Missing the first part is much less stressful than missing the last leg.

Three keys came in, but I just didn't like the first part (a favorite). I needed Elusive Vixen to win the first race. She ran up the track and was dead on the board.

[rrbauer]

I've never been to Woodbine. I've played races there a handful of times. The best thing that I can remember about Woodbine is that when they ran the BC there, we had nickel breakage. The 2nd best thing is that Chantal Sutherland rides there. I think that this P6 gimmick is great for folks who play there reguarly. On balance, I think that their takeout is abominable. Another track that receives purse subsidies from alternative gaming; and, screws the people who kept it in business all these years.