Full Card Reports [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

duckhunter3

06-27-2009, 12:06 AM

Let's just skip this. I am the author of the thread, and after thinking about it, feel stupid even posting this.

There are tons of computer applications out there to supplement your own IMAGINATIVE approaches to analyzing a race. And believe me, if you don't have an insight the public does not have, you will have a rough, rough time in this game.

So with this on the internet, etc., it MIGHT have some useful thoughts, or even angles. But bottom line. It is your brain, baby, and spot plays proven by research.

So let's not bother with talking about the quality of the product.

Sorry I even posted this. Wish I could have deleted it. I feel stupid.
duck

jeebus1083

06-27-2009, 12:36 AM

I've used them, and they're OK. The "Value Odds" runners pop on occasion for nice mutuels.

rusrious

06-27-2009, 07:29 AM

FullCard gives great info.. Its up to the handicapper to to weight the options of the race. ANY application can give you great info, but if you dont know how to use it, it wont mater anyways where you get the info from..

Fullcard also has a wealth of info on angles.

The thing about Handicappin, is anything can happen, MOST OF THE TIME, and its the handicappers JOB to figure out which horse WANTS to win, and what horse Gets pulled up before the wire..

Personally, Iv been using FCR for 4 months, and will never use another report.

I like knowing which horses have best final times of the field, or which horse runs best on a wet track, or which J/T combo is hot, IN THE CURRENT FIELD.

There is alot of great info there, hands down.. I love the report..

But again, in the end, its up to the handicapper to pick the right races, and the right horse to begin with..

my stats for the last 22 days using FCR

Races-------183
win----------69
place--------31
show--------22
Lost---------36
scratch------21
cancel-------1

80% payed

Last month, I had 85% of 200 races in the money. Might not be the greatest, but its not to bad..

Im not using their picks, I weed them out and go from there.. Being selective is the main priority in the end.

I do have my own method for chosing them, and takes me very little time to break a race down, because I know what to look for thru trail and error.

It is what it is..

dutchboy

06-27-2009, 01:10 PM

Prairie Meadows Friday night R9. Their reports did very well. Not sure if it would be appropriate for me to post what happened since they may not be an advertiser on this board.

PaceAdvantage

06-27-2009, 07:43 PM

Prairie Meadows Friday night R9. Their reports did very well. Not sure if it would be appropriate for me to post what happened since they may not be an advertiser on this board.It's only inappropriate if you are connected in some financial way to the product/company...

dutchboy

06-27-2009, 08:33 PM

No connection so these are the selections for PRM 6/26/09 race 9

2nd choice was Duke of Mischief which won and paid 29.20
4th choice ran second and the exacta paid 245.00

Of course with any computer generated program you can always find races each day that are in the top picks and pay a good price somewhere in the country so I don't know if this program is any better than others. They do have a free signup where you can watch videos of a race where they had a high priced winner as one of the top 3 picks and give reasons why the horse ran well.

Their big thing is to bet a top 3 ranked computer pick with minimum odds of 8-1 if that horse has certain angles in addition to being a top 3 pick. In the Prairie Meadows race the horse was ranked number one in early pace, top ranked mid pace, top ranked in total pace, and was the only horse that had ran a final time in par.

The free portion of the website seems to have some excellent information if you are new to the game or bet his frst race at AKSARBEN in 1971.

phatbastard

06-29-2009, 11:11 AM

for those of us who are slightly visually impaired, or time limited or just plain lazy, these sheets are just what doctor ordered. information seems accurate, though opinions on 1st starters may be a bit over-zealous.

at less than a buck a day, quite the bargain. Querinesque pts and pace rankings work well for me, and i have shown profit for the 4 months i have used them....however, the processing of the info is still required so its not like you are just playing a touts selections

i'm not affiliated with this company and pay for this info

markgoldie

06-29-2009, 03:53 PM

I read this thread and decided to subscribe to the service. As a man who routinely handles thousands of dollars per day, the price is irrelevant.

Well, the only word I can think of is "flabberghasted" by the amount of information that they are providing. It is astonishing that they can do this at the price they charge, although I realize that once their computer programs are in place, they pretty much run themselves.

I have absolutely no affiliation with them or anyone else. But if this is really as good as it looks, it is quite an achievement for this company.

As time goes on and I get my feet wet with all this info, I'll let you guys know what I think.

Mark

lsosa54

06-29-2009, 05:27 PM

It does seem like a ton of info but I would need a selective approach to use it. I'm typically a one track pace handicapper and even when I stretch it out to just two, I get a headache and I start to miss the finer points and it ends up costing me money. Somewhat of a push button approach to making profitable plays across multiple tracks without spending the time doing full dress handicapping sounds like a dream - not a bad one at that.

markgoldie

06-29-2009, 06:28 PM

dutchboy

06-29-2009, 07:09 PM

In today's just concluded 5th race at Prairie Meadows, the Full Card Report's Best Longshot in the race, #5 Farrar won and paid $100.00 to win.

I guess if you play these, that would give you essentially 49 free subsequent such plays.

Since you are a member check the results for the Live Longshot at Indiana Downs R2 on Monday June 29th.

DrewClear

06-29-2009, 07:13 PM

Calling it "Best longshot in the race" would make you think that he'll have it a little higher than 6th in a 9 horse race?

matthewsiv

06-29-2009, 10:10 PM

I had discovered their sight this morning and then found this posting on Pace Advantage.

I then went back and took a closer look at the reports.

There is a ton of information there and they do seem good value for what you have got.

I am thinking of subscribing for a month and seeing how it goes.

Anybody have any other thoughts on this service.

atlasaxis

06-29-2009, 10:28 PM

Since you are a member check the results for the Live Longshot at Indiana Downs R2 on Monday June 29th.

I use Racingpicks.com which is very similar if not identical to Fullcard. Their "A" longshot selection WAS the 6 MY LIL' DARLIN (20/6) which went off at 80-1 and came home paying $162.80, $60.80, $13.80 SWEET!! Talk about an overlay when they set the fair odds ot 6-1!!

markgoldie

06-29-2009, 11:02 PM

I use Racingpicks.com which is very similar if not identical to Fullcard. Their "A" longshot selection WAS the 6 MY LIL' DARLIN (20/6) which went off at 80-1 and came home paying $162.80, $60.80, $13.80 SWEET!! Talk about an overlay when they set the fair odds ot 6-1!!

That was the horse Dutchboy is talking about. Is Racingpicks the exact same thing as FullCard??

atlasaxis

06-29-2009, 11:07 PM

That was the horse Dutchboy is talking about. Is Racingpicks the exact same thing as FullCard??

I ran into someone at the track who was using Fullcard and asked if I could compare it to my Racingpicks. It was the same output.

matthewsiv

06-29-2009, 11:18 PM

Which report have you had the best results from?

atlasaxis

06-29-2009, 11:30 PM

Which report have you had the best results from?

The Rapid Plus report.

lsosa54

06-30-2009, 04:00 PM

Websites are similar in nature. I wonder why the need for both?

dutchboy

06-30-2009, 08:00 PM

Calling it "Best longshot in the race" would make you think that he'll have it a little higher than 6th in a 9 horse race?

I think they consider the best longshot to be the first horse in their power rating that is 8-1 morning line or higher. If the top rated horse is min 8-1 odds that is the pick. If the top 5 horses on the power rating are less that 8-1 and the 6th rated horse is greater that 8-1 then the 6th rated horse becomes the best longshot.

DrewClear

07-01-2009, 04:35 PM

I think they consider the best longshot to be the first horse in their power rating that is 8-1 morning line or higher. If the top rated horse is min 8-1 odds that is the pick. If the top 5 horses on the power rating are less that 8-1 and the 6th rated horse is greater that 8-1 then the 6th rated horse becomes the best longshot.

But they rank the horses according to power rating. Probably some other ranking they go with for picking the longshot. Good hit however they did it.

As for sites, They are the same program. I heard/read somewhere that they were a couple and bought John Beaver's program. Added other reports based on the program output. Then they split. Wife has racingpicks and guy started fullcard. Looks like you get more from fullcard since he did the programing.

atlasaxis

07-01-2009, 10:21 PM

lsosa54

07-01-2009, 11:53 PM

Thanks for the explanation. I had noticed the similarity with some of Beaver's "Yeast" program output.

fight

07-02-2009, 10:32 AM

The Rapid Plus report.
please tell me where rapid report is i dont see it does it have another name?ty

atlasaxis

07-02-2009, 11:00 AM

please tell me where rapid report is i dont see it does it have another name?ty

Fight,

I use Racingpicks, which appears to be the identical reports as fullcard except in name (don't know why). Here are the reports listed for Racingpicks:

BELMONT PARK
•TR REPORT (http:///members/TRP375/BEL07021.HTM) •SPEED REPORT (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702S.HTM) •RAPID DIAMOND (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702B.HTM) •RAPID PLUS (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702Q.HTM) •DIAMOND (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702J.HTM) •PLATINUM (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702C.HTM) •GOLD (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702U.HTM) •CLASSIC (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702H.HTM) •C-A-P (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702K.HTM) •TOP 4 (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702A.HTM) •TOP 4 PLUS (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702T.HTM)

supguy

07-03-2009, 09:02 AM

Hi,
I have been using full cards for the last year but the last month have not done well I always look for the value plays hooked up with late,pace total, icons mostly. I was wondering if you could share with me what you have done well with.

Thanks
Supguy

supguy

07-03-2009, 11:03 AM

which report do you use and what icons do you look for in the long shots.

Thanks
Supguy

markgoldie

07-03-2009, 11:50 AM

Here is my initial evaluation of Full Card reports:

Unfortunately, the report is not very good. As I see it, there are two major problems.

The first involves the algorithm that they use to essentially handicap the races. This produces their power rankings and is by their own literature their major achievement since it combines all the factors they use and distills it into a single number, much like Brisnet does with their Prime Power number. Unfortunately, I have found major flaws in these numbers that have led to some unforgivable errors.

Now. When I say that, I realize that a great deal of leeway must be granted because, afterall, we are talking about a subjective handicapping decision, and one person's 30-1 elimination may be another's bread and butter. So what I'm talking about is blatant error such as placing a horse in the top three or four who simply has not run any kind of competitive number with the balance of the field and who shows no sea change of circumstance that might allow such animal to wake up.

These are errors that, for example, the Prime Power number never, ever makes.

The second problem involves their "canned" commentary on the horses. What they clearly are doing is not evaluating and commenting on each horse in each race, but are using a computer program to spit out a pat statement in keeping with the handicapping factors that the horse shows. So, for example, if a horse has met or beaten par in his recent races, it will spit out the same sentence, saying that this is "a strong attribute" or some such phrase. The bottom line is, though, that once we get their phrases for each attribute down, why bother to read all this stuff over and over?

But more telling is the fact that their canned speeches completely miss the dates in which the horses last raced. So we get a horse who hasn't raced in over two years who has the best final times of any horse "this year! Or "Best recent speed of field, etc., etc." Nothing about trainer record with long-layoff drop downs, which is what we really need. In fact, nothing at all indicates any awareness whatsoever of the date of any horse's last race!

This, my friends, is a telling deficiency that shouldn't occur after the first week of freshman handicapping 101.

At any rate, there is still the longshot possibility that some of their individual reports might hold some illumination. Otherwise, I think the Full Card people need to seriously go back to the drawing board, realizing that a wealth of bad information is worse than no information at all.

Mark

atlasaxis

07-03-2009, 05:31 PM

Hi,
I have been using full card reports for the last year and have done well up until the last month, I like to look for value play icons line that up with purse level drop late speed and pace icons but not always. Anyway I have found that the value icons have died really bad. I was wondering what have you used for your success.

Thanks
supguy

Hi Supguy,

My fav play is off the Rapid Plus Report, turf races only, I circle all entrants whose late pace number ='s or exceeds the pace pars on the chart. Of those I play all overlays (>fair odds as determined in the chart, min odds of 4-1) to win. Just caught the 5 in R9 at Belmont @ 24-1 as I'm typing this. I have no connection with Racingpicks other than being a 9 year, very satisfied customer. Good luck to you!

supguy

07-03-2009, 05:46 PM

atlasaxis

07-03-2009, 06:16 PM

Do you know if the full card reports is the same that's what I use. I just can't seem to win no matter what I do. When I first started last year I had a great run. I have cut down my bets trying to pick my spots. I will give your way a shot. As for the value icons that's a thing of the past they never seem to win.

Thanks
for your help

I ran into someone at the track who had what I thought were Racingpicks report. When I started talking to her I realized it was Fullcard and asked if we could compare them. It was identical and I have no idea why the need for "2" companies if indeed they are separate. Either way it's great stuff. I followed the value play icons for a while but realized there were just too many plays for my liking. I wanted to be more select in my plays, although there were some really nice hits in there it just cut too much into the profit.

supguy

07-03-2009, 06:43 PM

Thanks I just tried you method in arlington was not a turf or long shot but did win. Thanks for your help. Any other great suggestions please let me know.

Thanks
supguy

supguy

07-03-2009, 07:33 PM

Do you have any certain tracks you play with this method or do you just look for all turf and then apply your method.

Thanks
supguy

Tom

07-03-2009, 08:26 PM

BELMONT PARK
•TR REPORT (http:///members/TRP375/BEL07021.HTM) •SPEED REPORT (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702S.HTM) •RAPID DIAMOND (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702B.HTM) •RAPID PLUS (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702Q.HTM) •DIAMOND (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702J.HTM) •PLATINUM (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702C.HTM) •GOLD (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702U.HTM) •CLASSIC (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702H.HTM) •C-A-P (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702K.HTM) •TOP 4 (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702A.HTM) •TOP 4 PLUS (http:///members/TRP375/BEL0702T.HTM)

The webpage "members" cannot be found

DNS error occurred. Server cannot be found. The link may be broken.

supguy

07-03-2009, 08:33 PM

Your answer to my post did not come through

rusrious

07-03-2009, 09:26 PM

go to best bets plus, then look for SP icon, keep out of races with 10 or more horses, stay away from Maiden races. When the track is wet, Always go with the Wet Icons..

allowance races hit better then Claiming races.

Got money to throw around, box the top 5 PRSU%, on the iPROPACE charts, was over $1000 in profit last night, of course, you have to use your head, and look at the payouts,

Final Time
Distance
+late+
+total+
SP

all in the same horse figures, play them in your exotics,

These are my keys to winning with FCR charts,

Valueodds with +late+--+total+ and distance are big hits also..

Dont play with less then 5 icons per horse,

Poly track, look for pedigree Icons, they usually ran very well..

Hope that helps,

supguy

07-03-2009, 10:00 PM

Thank you for your help. Do you have any certain tracks you like to play or do you stay with the same track.

Thanks
supguy

dutchboy

07-03-2009, 10:16 PM

Churchill Downs Friday 7-3-09 Full Card Reports

Top pick wins the first 3 races paying 9.40 5.00 34.20

Top pick wins the last 3 races paying 7.60 3.60 13.60

R4, R7, R8 were won by the 3rd pick

R5 the 4th rated horse won

R6 the winner was the last rated horse.

dutchboy

07-03-2009, 10:56 PM

which report do you use and what icons do you look for in the long shots.

Thanks
Supguy

Full Card Reports. Only look at horses with true odds from 2-1 to 8-1. Bet only the horses that either are a min of 7-1 morning line or 7-1 as close to post as possible.

Today at Woobine you would have the 65.20 winner of R5, and the 23.80 winner of R9

Today at Churchill you would have the 34.20 winner in R3, and the 16.00 winner of R8

Today at Belmont you would have the 51.00 winner in R9

May be best to ignore the value odds icon since the ML is seldom accurate. A lot of nice winners are less that the 8-1 required for the value odds icon. Too many value odds icon horses go off at less that 8-1 due to scratches or bad morning lines.

I have an excel sheet with over 4,000 races that I use to track the above type of winners. When I sort it the best prices are maiden claiming and maiden special weights. Worst are stake races. It does not matter where they are ranked when trying to bet price horses as long at the true odds are between 2-1 and 8-1. The excel sheet can be sorted by Date, R#, Track, Surface, Distance, Class, ML odds, True odds, Odds at 1 min to post and Win price.

Horses with true odds of less than 2-1 or greater that 8-1 do not show a profit.

These are the only 3 tracks I printed today and they were chosen at random. If I had picked 3 other tracks there may not have been any winners that paid a price.

Hope this helps out.

dutchboy

07-04-2009, 04:34 PM

Interested to know how you figured out their algorithm as mentioned in your second paragraph.

Here is my initial evaluation of Full Card reports:

Unfortunately, the report is not very good. As I see it, there are two major problems.

The first involves the algorithm that they use to essentially handicap the races. This produces their power rankings and is by their own literature their major achievement since it combines all the factors they use and distills it into a single number, much like Brisnet does with their Prime Power number. Unfortunately, I have found major flaws in these numbers that have led to some unforgivable errors.

Now. When I say that, I realize that a great deal of leeway must be granted because, afterall, we are talking about a subjective handicapping decision, and one person's 30-1 elimination may be another's bread and butter. So what I'm talking about is blatant error such as placing a horse in the top three or four who simply has not run any kind of competitive number with the balance of the field and who shows no sea change of circumstance that might allow such animal to wake up.

These are errors that, for example, the Prime Power number never, ever makes.

The second problem involves their "canned" commentary on the horses. What they clearly are doing is not evaluating and commenting on each horse in each race, but are using a computer program to spit out a pat statement in keeping with the handicapping factors that the horse shows. So, for example, if a horse has met or beaten par in his recent races, it will spit out the same sentence, saying that this is "a strong attribute" or some such phrase. The bottom line is, though, that once we get their phrases for each attribute down, why bother to read all this stuff over and over?

But more telling is the fact that their canned speeches completely miss the dates in which the horses last raced. So we get a horse who hasn't raced in over two years who has the best final times of any horse "this year! Or "Best recent speed of field, etc., etc." Nothing about trainer record with long-layoff drop downs, which is what we really need. In fact, nothing at all indicates any awareness whatsoever of the date of any horse's last race!

This, my friends, is a telling deficiency that shouldn't occur after the first week of freshman handicapping 101.

At any rate, there is still the longshot possibility that some of their individual reports might hold some illumination. Otherwise, I think the Full Card people need to seriously go back to the drawing board, realizing that a wealth of bad information is worse than no information at all.

Mark

markgoldie

07-04-2009, 05:04 PM

Hey Dutchboy;

I didn't figure out their algorithm. All I'm saying that whatever it is, it has some deficiencies. I guess I'm entitled to consider myself something of an expert on this score, since I have been using the Brisnet algorithm (the one that produces the Prime Power number) every day for many years. You get to know how they rate horses and why.

Now. We all have preferences which hopefully are supported by some succes and a careful study of what works and what doesn't. About once in every ten races, I stare at the Bris PP number and wonder how they rate a horse at a certain level. If I spend enough time, I can usually figure it out. But in general, I can easily predict their PP ranking on a horse, since I know the factors they base their ranking on.

The problem with the FCR rankings is that in some cases, there is just no way in the world you can come up with the rankings they assign. So that's why I say something is wrong.

Mark.

Tom Barrister

07-04-2009, 05:55 PM

I believe that Full Card Reports and RacingPicks are owned by the same outfit. There are/were some other online "tip sheet" sites that amount to the same essential thing.

As for the reason to have different websites. somebody that uses one and loses is likely to try another. Somebody silly enough to believe that a person who can beat the races is going to sell their secrets in the form of tip sheets for $30 a month will be silly enough to bounce from one site to another, searching for the elusive Magic Yum Yum Tree. P.T. Barnum would have been proud.

It's the same principle that Eddie "Professor" Horowitz used through the '70's and '80's with his sports-touting business. He had two dozen or so different companies (meaning two dozen or so company names that were essentially under the same boiler-room roof). If a customer lost with one "service", another would phone him.

The reports are probably okay for the casual goer or the person who doesn't have time or isn't willing to do the handicapping, but I can't imagine that anybody could make serious money using only the reports. Of course, the reports themselves are fully automated, crunching data and outputting "tips" that meet certain criteria (flags), and they offer some ratings and other numbers. One could probably do better (but still probably not show a profit) by subscribing to something like Trackmaster's Flashnet, which is about $25 a month, or going with a basic black-box program and the TSN Advantage Plan (for $60 a month). At least with the latter, the player would have access to past performances if desired.

lsosa54

07-04-2009, 07:16 PM

I believe that Full Card Reports and RacingPicks are owned by the same outfit. he latter, the player would have access to past performances if desired.

I believe someone already mentioned that it was a husband and wife team who bought John Beaver's programs from his wife and/or family after John passed away. He had several dos based programs, the main one called Yeast. I guess they got divorced and each kept a similar website.

I'm sure some further programming was done to Beaver's stuff but here is the last race from HOL last night from the Yeast dos program:

Race 8 HOL 8 07/03/09 7fur D 3+yrN MCl 25000 Purse= 15000
P# Horse Lx ML SyQ P1 P2 LP TP Beav CPL% {Par= 85 } OP Fm Wpt L/R POW
Pars--> 93 96 83 179 *1 *2 *3
1 FIERY .:9/2 P 3 86 89 88 177 157 165 82 81 81 12/ 8 6 -- 14 100
10 JUDGE .: 10 S 0 82 84 90 174 142 113 79 75 76 15/42 -2 69 48 96
9 WHIZER.: 15 P 2 82 81 88 169 151 112 76^ 77 77 1/ 1 7 70 21 95
11 BARNEY.: 5 EP3 86 86 84 170 137 110 72^ 74 70 13/10 0 99 49 93
8 PANDA..: 8 E 4 87 88 75 163 140 113 71^ 76 74 2/ 2 7 103 21 92
12 CANDY .27/2 na1 81 82 80 162 143 113$ 75 0 75 8/ 8 0 100 39 91
5 BONKER.3 8 P 1 76 78 86 164 136 100 74 0 0 5/ 5 7 75 27 90
3 MENDOT.: 8 E 2 88 92 76 168 129 0 80 77 76 / 1 81 26 90
4 EL RIF.2 5 na0 71 74 86 160 135 0 72 0 72 / 1 -- 14 87
6 KAYAKI.: 20 S 0 63 66 86 152 118 93 60^ 68 56 / 4 85 15 81
2 DANCE .2 30 na0 68 64 71 135 84 0 49 0 0 / 0 98 27 61
Hit ENTER for next race.

You'll find familiar columns from Full Card Reports like TP (total pace), CPL, Workout Pts., Form #, and the POW (Power #) last column.

The #10 won @ $15.40, the #1 placed, and the #11 showed. You can get some nice prices in the top 4 "POW" if you're patient. BTW, Yeast works off the $1 BRIS single file.

supguy

07-04-2009, 08:25 PM

I didn't figure it out I tried a method that someone else in hear told they use with great success for the past 9 years.

What type of method do you use.

dutchboy

07-04-2009, 09:28 PM

I didn't figure it out I tried a method that someone else in hear told they use with great success for the past 9 years.

What type of method do you use.

Reread a couple of previous posts in this thread. Print the following racetracks for Sat July 4th LAD,Woo,Hol,CD,Bel,and Mth and look at the results for the top 4 horses.

dav4463

07-05-2009, 12:09 AM

atlasaxis

07-05-2009, 12:46 PM

I think that with work and getting to know the ins and outs of a certain program or handicapper, one could have success with racingpicks, eponies, fullcardreports, horseracinggold, etc...once the horseplayer learns what to look for in each race. Good record keeping would be a must. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of each handicapper or report and handicap the handicappers.

Dave I agree totally. I remember Dick Mitchell saying he did a 2 year study on public handicappers in his area and every one of them had an overall negative roi (remembering that they were required to give selections for every race on the card). BUT, every one of them also had a positive roi in a particular subcategory. The same would be true for programs. Heck, I started out with Ray Taulbot's Pace Calc program. At a buck a data file from brisnet I spent quite a few shekels finding out what didn't work and what did. Then I discovered E-ponies and Racingpicks. While everyone else was reading over the same stats in the DRF I had access to info only a minority had. Without keeping records I would never have come to know where to find enough value to keep me ahead.