Ellis Park Closing after 2009

[CBedo]

Wasn't it purchased from Churchill just two or three years ago?

[takeout]

He should have closed it back when he was getting thugged by THG.

[FenceBored]

He should have closed it back when he was getting thugged by THG.

He did ... for two days.

[takeout]

He did ... for two days.Good point. ;)

[Track Collector]

Kentucky is another state (like California) where leaders believe players and owners will flock to them based on past reputation. Reality will soon reveal these beliefs to be a lie, and industries that fail to quickly realize changing marketplaces go out of business or become a shell of their former self.

I read somewhere that KY government is working to enhance purses, which at least is working in the right direction. Unfortunately, a portion of the funding will come from new taxes on out-of-state wagers on KY races. Obviously, these folks are clueless as to who the racing customers are. :bang:

Looks like I need to visit TP and KD this year before they disappear.:rolleyes:

[CincyHorseplayer]

Here in Ohio the governor and the tracks are working around the clock to get VLT by a 6/30 deadline.Elliston,the owner of Turfway has said in so many words and in between the lines that if that happens Turfway will close after 2010 which essentially would mean after this winter meet barring 1 month in September if that even happens.

That would leave Kentucky with Churchill and Keeneland.But that could work for the state if they just extended their meets.The 2 tracks run what 5 months??(Keeneland-April,October)(Churchill-May,June,November).

Well what if Chruchill ran similar to Turfway going 5 months but run May,June,July,and October,November and Keeneland ran April,August,and September??

Just offhand I can't think of such traditional stakes at Keeneland in the fall that can't be missed.The ambience of October might be missed but imagine Keeneland and Saratoga both running in August??That'd be cool IMO.Plus getting 2 months of Keeneland in a row would be a plus.

Just a thought.I used to love TP but with winter racing/cancellation,polytrack,and a general unhospitality towards horseplayers I'm done with it.Never really bet Ellis because I love NY in the summer.

[FenceBored]

Somebody help me with this. When did the idea of an individual state needing a year-round circuit start?

Indiana, that new darling of the Kentucky horsemen, doesn't have racing between the end of November and the middle of April. Shouldn't that mean that horsemen who won't stay in Kentucky without year round racing won't be going to Indiana? But, EVERYONE KNOWS that Ky horsemen are leaving in absolute droves for Indiana. :rolleyes:

[proximity]

the kentucky tracks are just in grandstanding phase right now with the hope that the more vividly they can paint a picture of desperation.... the faster slots will come. (not that i am against this :) )

[BigJake]

Don't forget the 8 days of racing at KD. They are owned by completely different people than TP.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Don't forget the 8 days of racing at KD. They are owned by completely different people than TP.

That's another thing I wanted to add to my previous proposal.Kentucky Downs could run a month of full card turf races at some point in the year.They have it staggered with TP in September but conditions are so dry it distorts outcomes by it's frontrunning tendencies.A meet in March would work or later in September,early October IMO.

[Nets]

Personally, I will miss Ellis. It's a pleasant atmosphere and sitting at a picnic table a few feet from the stretch has been enjoyable. Always take the kids and grandkids a couple times a summer and they all have a good time. For me, having a track 40 mins away has been nice. Sadly, I don't think slots are the long-term answer to all that ails this sport, but Mr. Geary certainly deserves to ask for them. He is taking big losses as it is, and he has always been customer oriented. Gonna try to get there as often as possible this summer. After that, I guess live racing will be a couple hour drive for me. And it certainly won't be as nice.

[Warren Henry]

I grew up just a couple of miles from Dade Park (now Ellis). My family is long gone from that area. If Ellis closes, that will be one less reason to "go home"

[Valuist]

First Farrah, then Michael Jackson and now this. RIP Ellis Park.

[sandpit]

Having been many times to a couple of small midwestern tracks in Ellis Park and River Downs, there is really no comparison in terms of how the plants are maintained. Ellis looks like an old, decaying relic with many layers of paint slapped on to hide the dirt and mold. Steps are crumbling in the grandstand, bathrooms are dirty, the food, even in the best areas, is unappetizing, and unfortunately, most of the help acts like it is the last place in the world they want to be. Despite massive struggles in the market, River Downs is just the opposite. It is clean, well maintained, has an upbeat staff, the food is always good, and the place looks like the people that work there are proud to be a part of it.
To be fair to Ellis, their racing is usually a tick better quality wise (but who knows what will happen this year), and they usually have much bigger pools. And at least they use their turf course regularly, something River never does.

[gemcity39]

Definately agree with River Downs vs. Ellis Park comparison. Texas racing is not far behind Kentucky and So CAl as far as being in trouble with no VLTs. Gov. goodhair won't even consider them, the Oklahoma casino lobbyists in Austin spend millions to keep them out of Texas. Lone Star has gone from great hosting the Breeders Cup to many cheap 4K claiming races and NW2L cheap claimers to keep full fields, and Retama and Sam Houston have already been bankrupt. Those that advocate less racing will see that become a reality for many states within 3-5 years, if that long.:confused:

[richrosa]

I just received some NYRA spam this morning about signing the petition for VLT's in New York.

I have several opinions about this:
1) If racing cannot survive without VLT's its only a matter of time before it cannot survive with VLT's. Think of VLT's like politicians with taxes. The more revenues they get the more programs they spend on, the more taxes they need. It will never stop.
2) If the sport didn't have the VLT crutch, it would think of different ways to stay in business, like running a horse racing operation that caters to customers, lowers takeouts to generate more handle, makes the game more accessible to younger players and upgrades the environment to make it more accommodating.

Until then, racetrack owners are thinking about one thing only, becoming casino operators. This will kill our game dead in 20 years for sure when the casino operators, one generation removed, look at the losses produced by racing and petition the "on-the-take" politicians to get rid of racing so that the states get more tax revenues without the big racing writeoff.

DEAD. 20 years tops. The Kentucky Derby will be like jumps at the fairs.

[macguy]

Until then, racetrack owners are thinking about one thing only, becoming casino operators. This will kill our game dead in 20 years for sure when the casino operators, one generation removed, look at the losses produced by racing and petition the "on-the-take" politicians to get rid of racing so that the states get more tax revenues without the big racing writeoff.


That's something that's concerned me right from the start.

At first the slots were looked at as the cure-all for horse racing.
It really is only a matter of time, though, before the bean counters start to look at the numbers and say, why the hell are we putting on a race meet?

Ditch the racing, sell off the extra land, and we'll end up with a nice little casino business. :faint:

[rastajenk]

Unless the states tell them they can't. Not unlike in most places now, where a track has to run a certain number of live dates to conduct year-round simulcasting.

[Sid]

Ditch the racing, sell off the extra land, and we'll end up with a nice little casino business.
If the track is publicly held, it would soon enough become its directors' fiduciary responsibility to get rid of racing rather than piss away shareholder money subsidizing a chronically losing arm of he company, even if it was grandpa's favorite.

Unless the states tell them they can't.
Why would the state tell them they can't? Very few jurisdictions produce a net profit for the state through parimutuel taxes, but all do produce a lot of headaches. The casino operations, meanwhile, produce plenty of tax revenue -- and the potential for being bled even drier, unlike racing.

Not unlike in most places now, where a track has to run a certain number of live dates to conduct year-round simulcasting.
Bless the states for that, at least. But horseplayers who look forward to a brave new world with just a handful of supertracks ought to be prepared for a few honest politicians in states like mine (Michigan) to say things like: "Hey, for decades you guys handed us all this stuff about thousands of jobs and gazillions of dollars in a farm-based economy, and we bent over backwards so you could keep it going . . . but now it's in the toilet and you want us to give you a simulcast license? No thanks. We can do better for our citizens by raking other forms of gambling." That will happen. Don't know in how many states, but it will happen. And in states like New York, which gets more than half its racing handle from other states, it could be significant.

[rastajenk]

You could be right. But it would be the states making those calls, not the in-house bean counters who decide racing isn't worth it anymore. It would depend on the various levels of lobbying strength, established connections, graft, and so on.

[FenceBored]

That's something that's concerned me right from the start.

At first the slots were looked at as the cure-all for horse racing.
It really is only a matter of time, though, before the bean counters start to look at the numbers and say, why the hell are we putting on a race meet?

Ditch the racing, sell off the extra land, and we'll end up with a nice little casino business. :faint:

Neighbors not happy with Rhode Island racino

...

And now, the company that owns Twin River filed for bankruptcy last week, and told the court that the casino's survival depends upon it being permitted to be open 24 hours a day and to eliminate its money-losing greyhound track.

...

Among the companies hoping to operate [i.e. take over] the racino is Harrah's Entertainment, based in Las Vegas [half owner of Turfway Park], which has tried for years to open a casino with table games in Rhode Island. In 2006, voters defeated a constitutional amendment to legalize table games and allow for casinos without racetracks.

But Jan Laverty Jones, a Harrah's senior vice president, said Harrah's would happily protect the greyhound operations to enter the market.

-- http://www.kentucky.com/216/story/845463.html