NYRA Schedules Another Mullins Hearing

[andymays]

This is what I was talking about when I said that members of the media(not this article) and racing officials love to grandstand for the public when it comes to Drugs and Racing, although Air Power is considered to be a natural cough remedy. Mullins was definitely out of line and violated the rules.

My position before was that the guards who looked in the bucket should have never let him proceed but they wanted to catch someobody! Who did this help in racing? Mullins was a knucklehead and so were the "supercops" who let him proceed.

This should have been put to bed right away and instead it's still out there. I know I'm in the minority here but this stuff hurts racing as much as any other issue.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51354/nyra-schedules-another-mullins-hearing

Excerpt:

The New York Racing Association has scheduled another hearing June 24 to investigate trainer Jeff Mullins’ actions in the Aqueduct detention barn April 4.

[the little guy]

How is it that you believe you know all the facts of the case?

[andymays]

How is it that you believe you know all the facts of the case?


I believe I've read every article on this subject. It has been covered and then some. Mullins was suspended and fined yet this continues. As I said before the guy might be a knucklehead but in my opinion the Racing Officials are grandstanding for the public.

Are the many reports incorrect? If so please correct the record.

[the little guy]

I believe I've read every article on this subject. It has been covered and then some. Mullins was suspended and fined yet this continues. As I said before the guy might be a knucklehead but in my opinion the Racing Officials are grandstanding for the public.

Are the many reports incorrect? If so please correct the record.


Much like you, I don't know the facts of the case.

I do find it interesting that you selectively decide what are the important issues in racing. I mean, I suppose we all do, but it seems your personal opinions in this specific case sway you away from your general feelings.

[andymays]

Much like you, I don't know the facts of the case.

I do find it interesting that you selectively decide what are the important issues in racing. I mean, I suppose we all do, but it seems your personal opinions in this specific case sway you away from your general feelings.


Cmon Little Guy, a man of your caliber makes a statement like that. I selectively decide what are the important issues in racing??? What does that mean? Would you like me to ask you before I form an opinion about something? As a guy with a marketing background I believe this stuff should be dealt with and put to bed ASAP. The longer it's out there the more it hurts racing. Wouldn't you agree?

I believe the facts have been reported. You're a New York guy so what's the scoop that the rest of the world doesn't already know?

As far as my personal opinions swaying me away from my personal feelings, I don't know what that means either.

[cj]

Pushing drug positives under the rug quickly, or any other blatant infractions, do a lot more to hurt racing than making sure the guy is punished, no matter how long it takes.

[andymays]

Pushing drug positives under the rug quickly, or any other blatant infractions, do a lot more to hurt racing than making sure the guy is punished, no matter how long it takes.


I didn't say anything about pushing this stuff under the rug. Racing Officials should deal with it, punish the guy according to the rules in force at the time and move on.

Do you think having this thing continue after he has been suspended and fined is good for racing?

[cj]

I didn't say anything about pushing this stuff under the rug. Racing Officials should deal with it, punish the guy according to the rules in force at the time and move on.

Do you think having this thing continue after he has been suspended and fined is good for racing?

Yes, I do actually. Mullins is a many times caught cheater. He shouldn't just get the usual fine and suspension. He should be drug through the ringer because he deserves no benefit of the doubt.

[andymays]

Yes, I do actually. Mullins is a many times caught cheater. He shouldn't just get the usual fine and suspension. He should be drug through the ringer because he deserves no benefit of the doubt.


If you can show me where you can find this extra special punishment rule for Mullins I will agree with you.

It's not a good precedent when Racing Officials or Law Enforcement start treating people differently and choosing who gets punished and how much, irrespective of the rules or laws in force at the time of the infraction.

[the little guy]

Cmon Little Guy, a man of your caliber makes a statement like that. I selectively decide what are the important issues in racing??? What does that mean? Would you like me to ask you before I form an opinion about something? As a guy with a marketing background I believe this stuff should be dealt with and put to bed ASAP. The longer it's out there the more it hurts racing. Wouldn't you agree?

I believe the facts have been reported. You're a New York guy so what's the scoop that the rest of the world doesn't already know?

As far as my personal opinions swaying me away from my personal feelings, I don't know what that means either.



Allow me to remind you what you said in an earlier response about any relationship you might have with Jeff Mullins.....



I think if you look at my previous postings you'd know that I have met him and know numerous people that are close with him.

The public perception of him is way off!

[cj]

If you can show me where you can find this extra special punishment rule for Mullins I will agree with you.

It's not a good precedent when Racing Officials or Law Enforcement start treating people differently and choosing who gets punished and how much, irrespective of the rules or laws in force at the time of the infraction.

Really? Who gets treated harsher, a person committing their first crime, or one committing their fourth, fifth, sixth, etc...?

Like it or not, your past follows you.

[andymays]

Allow me to remind you what you said in an earlier response about any relationship you might have with Jeff Mullins.....

I'm still not sure what you're getting at. All I know is that everyone that's done business with Mullins including Lanzman has spoken highly of the guy.
I'm sure that knowing this stuff has influenced my opinion. Why wouldn't it?

You still haven't answered my question. Do you think that dragging this out is good for racing? The man has been fined and suspended. What else do you want done?

[andymays]

Really? Who gets treated harsher, a person committing their first crime, or one committing their fourth, fifth, sixth, etc...?

Like it or not, your past follows you.


As I said before CJ, whatever the rules in force at the time are. This isn't the first guy to break the rules is it?

When there is a three (or 20) strike rule in force then I will agree with the punishment handed out.

[Cadillakin]

Yes, I do actually. Mullins is a many times caught cheater. He shouldn't just get the usual fine and suspension. He should be drug through the ringer because he deserves no benefit of the doubt.
Agree. Here is his record going back to Wyoming in the 80's.. Some of these infractions are more serious than others, of course.. But one can't help but notice this is a guy who doesn't much respect the rules..

Note: Ive omitted many of the lesser fines imposed having to do with licensing or employee issues.. as well as ineligiblity fines, and a few others.. These are only the times he got caught and punished by racing officials. And as all of us know, if your mama caught you smoking cigarettes five times in your youth, you probably smoked a helluva lot more than just those five times.

September 2008, necessitated late scratch at Del Mar, $300 fine

August 2008, excessive levels of sodium bicarbonate at Del Mar, horses put under 24-hour pre-race surveillance

January 2008, mepivacaine positive at Hollywood Park (in 2006), suspended 90 days, with 70 days stayed

February 2007, prenisolone positive at Santa Anita, $400 fine

June 2005, Bute overage at Hollywood Park, $300 fine

February 2005, ranitidine positive at Fair Grounds, $1,000 fine

January 2005, excessive levels of sodium bicarbonate at Santa Anita, horses put under 24-hour pre-race surveillance

October 2004, Methocarbamol positive at Oak Tree, $300 fine

October 2004, failed to comply with official veterinary directive at Oak Tree, $100 fine

January 2000, dimethylsulfoxide(DMSO) positive at Turf Paradise, $250 fine

January 2000, dimethylsulfoxide(DMSO) positive at Turf Paradise, $250 fine

January 2000, failure to appear, $250 fine

November 1994, dimethylsulfoxide(DMSO) positive at Turf Paradise, $250 fine

August 1988, positive tests for poly-ethylene glycol in two horses at Wyoming Downs (no record of fine or suspension listed)

September 1986, prednisolone positive at Wyoming Downs, suspended one year and fined $1,500

[andymays]

Cadillakin, you haven't been on the Forum long enough to know this but I've fought the Mullins battle since April and all this stuff has come up before.

The point of my posting this particular article is to point out that I believe certain members of the media and Racing Officials grandstand on issues like this.

We can change the rules and punish people above and beyond what the rules call for. We can adopt new rules where the Public goes on line and gives the thums up :ThmbUp: or thumbs down :ThmbDown: like they did in the Roman Coliseum and crucify people.

Do you think that dragging this out since before the Derby is good for racing?

He was fined and suspended. What else is there to do?

[cj]

Cadillakin, you haven't been on the Forum long enough to know this but I've fought the Mullins battle since April and all this stuff has come up before.

The point of my posting this particular article is to point out that I believe certain members of the media and Racing Officials grandstand on issues like this.

We can change the rules and punish people above and beyond what the rules call for. We can adopt new rules where the Public goes on line and gives the thums up :ThmbUp: or thumbs down :ThmbDown: like they did in the Roman Coliseum and crucify people.

Do you think that dragging this out since before the Derby is good for racing?

He was fined and suspended. What else is there to do?

Do you think repeatedly giving a blatant rule breaker meaningless fines and suspensions is good for the game?

The guy cheated on a very big day of racing and brought a lot of embarrassment to the sport. He saddled the favorite and winner of the Wood Memorial later in the day. I'm all for taking the time to find out what really happened and issue further punishment if warranted.

[andymays]

Another point I'd like to make is that when we start going down this road of pointing fingers and making accusations is that inevitably good people like Larry Jones get caught up in it.

He was accused of giving Eight Belles all sorts of things after she broke down with not one shred of evidence. All the tests came back negative. This man was treated so unfairly I still can't believe it. My point is that this is where the overkill on certain issues takes us.

Granted Mullins pushes the envelope and has paid many penalties and fines. If Racing Officials want to pass some cumulative penalty then so be it. Just don't change the rules to please the public in certain cases.

[Cadillakin]

It's bigger than Mullins or any of the other known performance enhancers... It permeates the game from the top down.. Many of the guys at the top in the owner standings are using trainers who work just like Mullins..

Even a guy like Frank Lyons who is front and center at TVG ... loves to give the old oats and water guys plenty of accolades...

'Ronnie (McAnally) is one of the greats of all time... There will never be another like him... Jack (Van Berg) is the best of the best. He has forgotten more than most of these guys will ever know,'

But when Lyons has a good horse, the old greats don't get a sniff of him.. He is turned over to one of the "new breed" who in most cases have some recent history of enhancing performance..

[PaceAdvantage]

We can change the rules and punish people above and beyond what the rules call for. We can adopt new rules where the Public goes on line and gives the thums up :ThmbUp: or thumbs down :ThmbDown: like they did in the Roman Coliseum and crucify people.

Do you think that dragging this out since before the Derby is good for racing?

He was fined and suspended. What else is there to do?Like TLG said, you don't know, and we don't know what else may have surfaced, or why they are calling for another hearing.

Perhaps new evidence has come to light. Nobody is saying he's being punished above and beyond what the rules call for. Where are you getting this from?

The stewards obviously have a reason for calling another hearing, and I'm sure we'll all learn what it is in due time.

[andymays]

It's bigger than Mullins or any of the other known performance enhancers... It permeates the game from the top down.. Many of the guys at the top in the owner standings are using trainers who work just like Mullins..

Even a guy like Frank Lyons who is front and center at TVG ... loves to give the old oats and water guys plenty of accolades...

Ronnie (McAnally) is one of the greats of all time... There will never be another like him... Jack (Van Berg) is the best of the best. He has forgotten more than most of these guys will ever know...

But when Lyons has a good horse, the old greats don't get a sniff of him.. He is turned over to one of the "new breed" who in most cases have some recent history of enhancing performance..


You're painting a broad brush (no pun intended)! Who is going to decide which Trainer that gets over 12% wins is cheating? There are limits to testing so where do we go from here?

We are at a point now where if a 25% Trainer wins a race he must be using something. When a 2% Trainer wins a race they say he must have used something. The perception is way worse than the reality for Horse Racing.

I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one that sees it this way but so be it.

[andymays]

Like TLG said, you don't know, and we don't know what else may have surfaced, or why they are calling for another hearing.

Perhaps new evidence has come to light. Nobody is saying he's being punished above and beyond what the rules call for. Where are you getting this from?

The stewards obviously have a reason for calling another hearing, and I'm sure we'll all learn what it is in due time.

Excerpt:

In part, Murphy’s letter to Violette, reads:

“On behalf of NYTHA member Jeff Mullins, we ask that you (or a designated NYTHA representative) attend to show your support, and to place your organization’s objections on the record regarding the legitimacy of these proceedings.




It seems that they are saying that he is being punished twice for the same offense.

I guess we should all wait and see then. I'm fine with that.

[Cadillakin]

You're painting a broad brush (no pun intended)! Who is going to decide which Trainer that gets over 12% wins is cheating? There are limits to testing so where do we go from here?

We are at a point now where if a 25% Trainer wins a race he must be using something. When a 2% Trainer wins a race they say he must have used something. The perception is way worse than the reality for Horse Racing.

I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one that sees it this way but so be it.
Listen Andy.. I saw Eoin Harty stand in front of the cameras a couple of years ago and state; It's almost impossible to make a living out here if you're honest.. I was happy when Well Armed won so big for him... because at least I know he will be able to continue for a while..

It's a sad day when an honest man has to indict his own community because he has no other recourse..

Broad brush it is.. broad brush it needs to be.. Because that's the reality of our game..

[PaceAdvantage]

It seems that they are saying that he is being punished twice for the same offense. The only "they" represented in your quote is Mullins' attorney and presumably, Mullins himself (although he isn't quoted, but I presume his attorney is writing on his behalf and thus represents his views).

Not a very objective source if you ask me...:lol:

[Mineshaft]

This is what I was talking about when I said that members of the media(not this article) and racing officials love to grandstand for the public when it comes to Drugs and Racing, although Air Power is considered to be a natural cough remedy. Mullins was definitely out of line and violated the rules.

My position before was that the guards who looked in the bucket should have never let him proceed but they wanted to catch someobody! Who did this help in racing? Mullins was a knucklehead and so were the "supercops" who let him proceed.

This should have been put to bed right away and instead it's still out there. I know I'm in the minority here but this stuff hurts racing as much as any other issue.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51354/nyra-schedules-another-mullins-hearing

Excerpt:

The New York Racing Association has scheduled another hearing June 24 to investigate trainer Jeff Mullins’ actions in the Aqueduct detention barn April 4.






Agree 100%. He did his time for this violation now be done with it. Its freakin cough syrup for crying out loud. The guards checked his belongings and let him in the detention barn.

[andymays]

The only "they" represented in your quote is Mullins' attorney and presumably, Mullins himself (although he isn't quoted, but I presume his attorney is writing on his behalf and thus represents his views).

Not a very objective source if you ask me...:lol:


I guess I'm the only one who read the entire article. I did not want to copy and paste the entire thing here because of the Forum rules about copywrited material. Was I wrong?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51354/nyra-schedules-another-mullins-hearing

[andymays]

Agree 100%. He did his time for this violation now be done with it. Its freakin cough syrup for crying out loud. The guards checked his belongings and let him in the detention barn.


Are you sure you want to agree with me? Just kidding. Thanks for the support! :ThmbUp:

[cj]

Agree 100%. He did his time for this violation now be done with it. Its freakin cough syrup for crying out loud. The guards checked his belongings and let him in the detention barn.

If that was all there is to it, I doubt there would be another hearing. I could be wrong, time will tell.

[DeanT]

August 2008, excessive levels of sodium bicarbonate at Del Mar, horses put under 24-hour pre-race surveillance

January 2005, excessive levels of sodium bicarbonate at Santa Anita, horses put under 24-hour pre-race surveillance



What are the rules in Cali? How do they treat tubing?

In Ontario he would be gone for a year with two soda positives. In the UK one guy got one today and got two years.

[andymays]

What are the rules in Cali? How do they treat tubing?

In Ontario he would be gone for a year with two soda positives. In the UK one guy got one today and got two years.


I think they made the rules a lot tougher two or three years ago when "Milk Shaking" became rampant!

[Cadillakin]

What are the rules in Cali? How do they treat tubing?

In Ontario he would be gone for a year with two soda positives. In the UK one guy got one today and got two years.
In Southern California, the violator gets numerous (up to 100,000) chances to reform before they do anything of consequence..

Precedent was set in the last two decades when our own Patrick Valenzuela set a world record for failing drug tests...

[fmolf]

Cadillakin, you haven't been on the Forum long enough to know this but I've fought the Mullins battle since April and all this stuff has come up before.

The point of my posting this particular article is to point out that I believe certain members of the media and Racing Officials grandstand on issues like this.

We can change the rules and punish people above and beyond what the rules call for. We can adopt new rules where the Public goes on line and gives the thums up :ThmbUp: or thumbs down :ThmbDown: like they did in the Roman Coliseum and crucify people.

Do you think that dragging this out since before the Derby is good for racing?

He was fined and suspended. What else is there to do?
i agree with you . a travesty he was already tried and punished!In a court of criminal law once a rial and verdict are delivered that is it,in this case a sentence was served as well.I am not a Mullins fan i do think he is a cheat and at least a severe rule bender!things like this only serve to bring up the worst aspect of our game to the public forefront.we do not need our dirty laundry aired out publicly!I believe it is time to start penalizing owners for positive drug tests by suspending the trainer as well as the horse from competition.hit the owners where it hurts in the pocketbook and see how quickly the game becomes clean!... I think its worth a try.

[saratoga guy]

Just to be clear -- this isn't some magically conjured up new hearing. From what I read, the first hearing was adjourned without any decision being made, and with the idea that another hearing would probably be needed.

[andymays]

Just to be clear -- this isn't some magically conjured up new hearing. From what I read, the first hearing was adjourned without any decision being made, and with the idea that another hearing would probably be needed.


The article is a little unclear.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51354/nyra-schedules-another-mullins-hearing

Excerpt:

Mullins has paid a $2,500 fine and served a seven-day suspension meted out by the New York State Racing and Wagering Board. The penalties were served after Mullins admitted he unknowingly breached detention barn rules by giving Bay Shore (gr. III) entrant Gato Go Win an over-the-counter equine cough product. Gato Go Win was scratched after Mullins was observed by NYRA security personnel orally administrating Air Power in the detention barn prior to the Bay Shore.

[plainolebill]

I think it's interesting that Wyoming gave Mullins a year off for a prednisolone positive along with a $1500.00 fine and California gave him a $400 pat on the wrist for the same thing.

Who's shittin' who here?

[Greyfox]

His last meeting with the commission took 8 hours.

Could even the world's most authoritative man on cough syrup talk about it for 8 hours? How did the commission spend 8 hours talking about cough syrup?
Hmm.....

[andymays]

His last meeting with the commission took 8 hours.

Could even the world's most authoritative man on cough syrup talk about it for 8 hours? How did the commission spend 8 hours talking about cough syrup?
Hmm.....


That goes to my initial point. Is it grandstanding to please the public?

Time will tell as this plays out.


By the way I like Dutrow too!

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess I'm the only one who read the entire article. I did not want to copy and paste the entire thing here because of the Forum rules about copywrited material. Was I wrong?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51354/nyra-schedules-another-mullins-hearingNo, you're not the only one. I read the ENTIRE (not so long) article before I responded. Please tell me where I am in error in stating the only one quoted is Mullins' attorney, once again, a not-so-objective source on the matter....

You said "It seems that they are saying that he is being punished twice for the same offense."

The only THEY is Mullins' attorney! :lol:

Of course THEY are going to say that....

[andymays]

No, you're not the only one. I read the ENTIRE (not so long) article before I responded. Please tell me where I am in error in stating the only one quoted is Mullins' attorney, once again, a not-so-objective source on the matter....

You said "It seems that they are saying that he is being punished twice for the same offense."

The only THEY is Mullins' attorney! :lol:

Of course THEY are going to say that....


I'm not sure what your point is. Mullins and his Attorney are "they". Who else would "they" be and why is that important? :bang:


If he has already been fined and suspended what else is there? What would you like to see happen? :confused:

Why would you take the thread off track worrying about who "they" are?

:lol:

[Mineshaft]

he did his freakin time leave him alone. The NYRA are grandstanding.





When you get a speeding ticket and then you pay the fine, 3 months later do the cops give you a call at home and say hey lets discuss the ticket just a little more in depth.


Answer: Hell NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Greyfox]

he did his freakin time leave him alone. The NYRA are grandstanding.



If he did his time for cough syrup, then leave him alone. But I have a
suspicion that while they tell Joe Public its about cough syrup, it ain't just about cough syrup. That's the tip of the iceberg.

[PaceAdvantage]

If he has already been fined and suspended what else is there?I don't know. We'll have to wait and see to find out, won't we?

Why would you take the thread off track worrying about who "they" are?

:lol:How is responding DIRECTLY to one of your replies taking a thread off track? Your "they" comment was ambiguous, and I thought I would provide a little more clarity by defining exactly what you were talking about.

Your bias is showing loud and clear. I prefer to wait and see what the facts are, while you have already made up your mind without any knowledge of what really is going on....

[PaceAdvantage]

he did his freakin time leave him alone. The NYRA are grandstanding.





When you get a speeding ticket and then you pay the fine, 3 months later do the cops give you a call at home and say hey lets discuss the ticket just a little more in depth.


Answer: Hell NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAnother guy with inside knowledge....:lol:

[Mineshaft]

If he did his time for cough syrup, then leave him alone. But I have a
suspicion that while they tell Joe Public its about cough syrup, it ain't just about cough syrup. That's the tip of the iceberg.




Im sure if it was something else the public would know about it. Why would the NYRA not tell the public if it was something else? Mullins is not even coming to NY to talk to them about it its just a conference call. If i was Mullins i would tell them to get fawked. I did my time theres nothing more to discuss. If you want to talk then talk to my attorney.

[PaceAdvantage]

Im sure if it was something else the public would know about it. Why would the NYRA not tell the public if it was something else? Mullins is not even coming to NY to talk to them about it its just a conference call. If i was Mullins i would tell them to get fawked. I did my time theres nothing more to discuss. If you want to talk then talk to my attorney.Yeah, telling them to get "fawked" probably is a great idea...good thing you aren't advising Mullins.

Let's spell this out one more time for those who think they're in the know, but obviously aren't (and this includes myself).

Here are the key elements from the bloodhorse article:

An enhanced version of NYRA’s Barn Area Violations Panel already held one hearing in the Mullins matter on May 14, and adjourned the proceedings to June 24 without taking any action against the trainer.

Mullins has paid a $2,500 fine and served a seven-day suspension meted out by the New York State Racing and Wagering Board. The penalties were served after Mullins admitted he unknowingly breached detention barn rules by giving Bay Shore (gr. III) entrant Gato Go Win an over-the-counter equine cough product. Gato Go Win was scratched after Mullins was observed by NYRA security personnel orally administrating Air Power in the detention barn prior to the Bay Shore.So, let's break this down. Obviously, NYRA's BARN AREA VIOLATIONS PANEL is a separate and distinct entity from the NEW YORK STATE RACING AND WAGERING BOARD.

I am assuming (but I am not certain) that this Barn Area Violations Board (which originally met on May 14 but came to no decision and adjourned TO JUNE 24) can issue it's own set of penalties to Mullins, separate and distinct from the NYSRWB.

So, it's not actually ANOTHER hearing...it's simply a continuation of the hearing that began on May 14.

Hopefully, this clears up a lot of the confusion roaming around in this thread.

[Mineshaft]

Yeah, telling them to get "fawked" probably is a great idea...good thing you aren't advising Mullins.

Let's spell this out one more time for those who think they're in the know, but obviously aren't (and this includes myself).

Here are the key elements from the bloodhorse article:

So, let's break this down. Obviously, NYRA's BARN AREA VIOLATIONS PANEL is a separate and distinct entity from the NEW YORK STATE RACING AND WAGERING BOARD.

I am assuming (but I am not certain) that this Barn Area Violations Board (which originally met on May 14 but came to no decision and adjourned TO JUNE 24) can issue it's own set of penalties to Mullins, separate and distinct from the NYSRWB.

So, it's not actually ANOTHER hearing...it's simply a continuation of the hearing that began on May 14.

Hopefully, this clears up a lot of the confusion roaming around in this thread.







So the Barn Area Violations Board could not come up with a decision. I mean what is there to decide. He broke the law so punish him. Why wait another month to come up with a decision? Why drag it on? That must be some smart puppies on that board.


Ive never heard of 2 penalties for the same offense. Doesnt make sense. If the Violations Board does hand down another suspension im sure Mullins will fight it till the end. Like i said earlier i would tell them to get fawked.

[PaceAdvantage]

Aren't there times when stewards hand down separate penalties in addition to the NYSRWB? I believe this to be true.

This is not a unique situation, other than the fact it took place in the detention barn.

You ask a very good question Minshaft. How is it they couldn't come to a decision on May 14....they had to adjourn and continue the hearing this coming Wednesday....

Any reasonable person might conclude that the case isn't as simple as once thought. Perhaps there is more here than we are being told.

Why else would beaurocrats wish to work longer or harder then they have to?

[andymays]

In Southern California, the violator gets numerous (up to 100,000) chances to reform before they do anything of consequence..

Precedent was set in the last two decades when our own Patrick Valenzuela set a world record for failing drug tests...


It was put in9-30-05 as emergancy and made final 1-20-06--

Rule No. Rule Title
1843.6 Total Carbon Dioxide Testing.
Rule Text (a) At the direction of the official veterinarian, a veterinarian licensed by the Board or a registered veterinary technician licensed by the Board may collect blood sample(s) from a horse for the purpose of testing for total carbon dioxide (TCO2) concentrations. Such blood sample(s) shall be collected under the provision of Rule 1859 of this article, and may be collected pre-race or post-race. (1) The owner or trainer of a horse selected for testing may request that a duplicate sample be taken. Such request shall be made prior to the collection of the official sample. The costs related to obtaining, handling, shipping and analyzing the duplicate sample shall be the responsibility of the owner or trainer who requested such sample. (2) If the Board in its discretion determines the duplicate sample cannot be analyzed within five days after the sample is collected, the findings of the official sample shall be final. (b) Any horse on a facility under the jurisdiction of the Board may be selected by the stewards or the official veterinarian for TCO2 testing. (c) Any owner, trainer, or other person responsible for a horse who refuses or fails to permit the taking of test sample(s) from such horse shall be deemed in violation of Rule 1930 of this division and shall have the horse declared ineligible to race by the stewards. (d) TCO2 levels in the blood serum or plasma shall not exceed: (1) 37.0 millimoles per liter of serum or plasma. (2) TCO2 levels in excess of 37.0 millimoles shall be considered a Class three-medication violation for administrative purposes. (e) The provisions of Rule 1859.25 of this article shall not apply to blood sample(s) collected for TCO2 testing. NOTE: Authority cited: Sections 19420, 19440, 19580 and 19582.5, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Sections 19581 and 19582, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. New rule filed as an emergency 9-13-05; effective through 1-21-06. 2. Permanent regulation filed 1-20-06; effective 1-20-06.

[saratoga guy]

Though I -- like everyone else here -- only know what I've read about this story, I don't think there's any more to it than meets the eye.

For everyone implying that there was something more than Air Power involved -- I believe the NYSRWB tested the contents of the syringe and bottle confiscated that day and found nothing illegal.

And if there was something nefarious being investigated I would think that would be the purview of the NYSRWB and not the "Barn Area Violations Panel".

Why is the hearing being extended to another day? I can imagine many mundane reasons. With the lawyer questioning the "revised" panel the first day could have been spent on procedural matters.

Also, Mullins claims his equipment was thoroughly searched and no one stopped him from bringing in the Air Power -- that would seem to mitigate somewhat the severity of his violation. So they could be trying to ascertain just would did take place at the barn. They could also be examining the rules Mullins worked under in SoCal.

With the scrutiny NYRA has been under for the past few years it's certainly understandable that they would want to make sure all the t's are crossed and i's dotted in what is a high-profile case.

But I really don't anticipate any other shoe dropping on this one.

[fmolf]

Though I -- like everyone else here -- only know what I've read about this story, I don't think there's any more to it than meets the eye.

For everyone implying that there was something more than Air Power involved -- I believe the NYSRWB tested the contents of the syringe and bottle confiscated that day and found nothing illegal.

And if there was something nefarious being investigated I would think that would be the purview of the NYSRWB and not the "Barn Area Violations Panel".

Why is the hearing being extended to another day? I can imagine many mundane reasons. With the lawyer questioning the "revised" panel the first day could have been spent on procedural matters.

Also, Mullins claims his equipment was thoroughly searched and no one stopped him from bringing in the Air Power -- that would seem to mitigate somewhat the severity of his violation. So they could be trying to ascertain just would did take place at the barn. They could also be examining the rules Mullins worked under in SoCal.

With the scrutiny NYRA has been under for the past few years it's certainly understandable that they would want to make sure all the t's are crossed and i's dotted in what is a high-profile case.

But I really don't anticipate any other shoe dropping on this one.
i am reserving judgement till i have more facts .To me though it does seem a bit odd that a second hearing is being conducted....a bit odd he feels the need to get his lawyers involved....a bit odd that the lawyer felt a need to have a horsemans representitive present.....i hope that this is just what Andy thinks it is beauracratic grandstanding and nothing more.Racing does not need another drug scandal more serious than air power.Although mullins is a very nefarious character having another trial after already being convicted and serving his sentence to me is double jeopardy and illegal in the real world unless new evidence is uncovered and a separate charge leveled.This is turning into more than a routine fine/suspension slap on the wrist case,very interesting.

[foxxon]

Supend his horses, but they never do, its a joke and he KNOWS IT.

[DJofSD]

I think this would be a good issue for HANA to issue some kind of press release. And a press release to let the various boards and jurisdictions that govern racing actitivies know this continued mollycoddling of trainers has to stop.

I, for one, believe the continued non-action of boards like the CHRB and the NYRA do nothing but undercut the integrity of racing. Do you think these boards are operating in the best interest of the wagering public? I don't especially when trainers receive, in essence, a pass.

[andymays]

I think this would be a good issue for HANA to issue some kind of press release. And a press release to let the various boards and jurisdictions that govern racing actitivies know this continued mollycoddling of trainers has to stop.

I, for one, believe the continued non-action of boards like the CHRB and the NYRA do nothing but undercut the integrity of racing. Do you think these boards are operating in the best interest of the wagering public? I don't especially when trainers receive, in essence, a pass.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...mullins-hearing

Excerpt:

Mullins has paid a $2,500 fine and served a seven-day suspension meted out by the New York State Racing and Wagering Board. The penalties were served after Mullins admitted he unknowingly breached detention barn rules by giving Bay Shore (gr. III) entrant Gato Go Win an over-the-counter equine cough product. Gato Go Win was scratched after Mullins was observed by NYRA security personnel orally administrating Air Power in the detention barn prior to the Bay Shore.

[DJofSD]

OK, dueling excerpts:
An enhanced version of NYRA’s Barn Area Violations Panel already held one hearing in the Mullins matter on May 14, and adjourned the proceedings to June 24 without taking any action against the trainer.

They ain't done. And how much do you want to wager there'll be another delay after they meet tomorrow?

[andymays]

OK, dueling excerpts:


They ain't done. And how much do you want to wager there'll be another delay after they meet tomorrow?


I think you're right. This thing is likely headed to civil court. It's most likely a clash of ego's.

I wonder what would have happened if I Want Revenge had won the Derby. And I wonder what would have happened if I Want Revenge had won the Preakness too. Do you think the this would have played out the same way?
New York Racing would have thrown rose petals before Mullins feet on the way to the Belmont. Just my opinion. What's yours?

[DJofSD]

I agree -- I think you're right. (BTW, nice pun re the rose pettles).

[Cadillakin]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...mullins-hearing

Excerpt:

Mullins has paid a $2,500 fine and served a seven-day suspension meted out by the New York State Racing and Wagering Board.

The proverbial slap on the hand.. $2500 ain't a days wages for Mullins.. And as we all know, he manages things fine with his cell phone..

What real incentive is there for Mullins and others to conform to the rules if the authorities are just playing paddy-cake with them when they are caught disdaining the public trust? Mullins has already told us that we are a bunch of idiots for placing trust in the game...

Of course we are... if everybody trained horses like he does.. But for everybody like Jeff, there is a Richard Mandella.. So, I go on... and try to forget about guys like Jeff.. I bet him. Yes I do.. but I'd rather bet an honest man playing an honest game...

I think all of us would..

[saratoga guy]

Racing does not need another drug scandal more serious than air power.Although mullins is a very nefarious character having another trial after already being convicted and serving his sentence to me is double jeopardy and illegal in the real world unless new evidence is uncovered and a separate charge leveled.This is turning into more than a routine fine/suspension slap on the wrist case,very interesting.

Again, as others in the thread already have, you're implying that you suspect another shoe to drop and this will turn out to be "more serious than Air Power".

I see absolutely no reason to suspect that given that a) the confiscated materials were tested and nothing illegal was found, and b) if there was a more serious med charge involved I would expect that would have been taken up by the NYSRWB (who did the testing) and not the "Barn Area Violations Panel".

As for this notion of "double jeopardy" that people are upset about -- think of it as the NYSRWB are the "police" and NYRA is the "workplace". Earlier someone mentioned a speeding ticket. Well, if you were a FedEx driver and you got a speeding ticket -- you would have to pay the fine, and it wouldn't be out of line that FedEx might hand out a penalty too.

[andymays]

The proverbial slap on the hand.. $2500 ain't a days wages for Mullins.. And as we all know, he manages things fine with his cell phone..

What real incentive is there for Mullins and others to conform to the rules if the authorities are just playing paddy-cake with them when they are caught disdaining the public trust? Mullins has already told us that we are a bunch of idiots for placing trust in the game...

Of course we are... if everybody trained horses like he does.. But for everybody like Jeff, there is a Richard Mandella.. So, I go on... and try to forget about guys like Jeff.. I bet him. Yes I do.. but I'd rather bet an honest man playing an honest game...

I think all of us would..


If everyone wants tougher penalties then they should do it. Just apply the rules the same way to everyone.

[thelyingthief]

Pushing drug positives under the rug quickly, or any other blatant infractions, do a lot more to hurt racing than making sure the guy is punished, no matter how long it takes.


amen, brother

[Sid]

It's going on three years now since Terry Houghton, along with the rest of the Tampa Six, were denied access to earning a living at Tampa Bay and Arlington. Houghton remains banned although no misconduct has been alleged against him, let alone proven. My own reading of the few known facts suggests that if any misconduct occurred it was on the part of track owners, their TRPB boss plucked from the FBI retirement list, and current employees of the FBI. But then, I like due process.

When compared to Houghton's situation, why would anyone worry about due process in the case of a trainers forced to jump through investigative hoops while they keep getting paid for showing up on the backside? I'm talking relative inconvenience, of course.

If horseplayers are going to issue a press release, how about one on behalf of Houghton? Back when this silly saga began there was fourth-hand rumor about a stiffed race at Great Lakes Downs. Talk about needlessly making our game look crooked and stupid in one fell swoop . . . I can't imagine any member of this forum betting a single dollar on Houghton's mount in that race.

And needless to say, anyone who thinks I am wrong about this should be outraged that Terry Houghton continues to ride at tracks that, in my opinion, do have a basic sense of justice, fair play, common sense, and any number of other good things.

[PaceAdvantage]

As jockeys are independent contractors, aren't tracks within their rights to ban jockeys for any reason whatsoever without any due process?

What guarantees a jockey due process? He isn't an employee of the racetrack, and the racetrack is private property in many or most instances....

[PaceAdvantage]

If everyone wants tougher penalties then they should do it. Just apply the rules the same way to everyone.That's exactly what they are doing. Any other trainer dumb enough to walk into the NYRA detention barn sporting what Mullins was carrying will undoubtedly be treated in exactly the same way....

[Cadillakin]

That's exactly what they are doing. Any other trainer dumb enough to walk into the NYRA detention barn sporting what Mullins was carrying will undoubtedly be treated in exactly the same way....
Yep. Also, Mullins saying he was unaware of the rules is an insult.. Everybody in racing knows you don't bring/do that shit in the detention barn...

[Sid]

As jockeys are independent contractors, aren't tracks within their rights to ban jockeys for any reason whatsoever without any due process?
Of course. Tracks can ban me on grounds I might join the horseplayers' union. Or ban you because . . . well, as I said, for no reason at all. Just as Vegas can ban a gambler because he wins. So yes, you are correct by conventional wisdom. Though we'll have a better handle on that after Houghton's civil suit against Arlington is on the docket for the requisite three or four or five years. I expect a settlement will be reached (maybe we should make book on that), though I wish it would go to trial and a jury would award Terry the deed to Arlington Park. After, of course, disclosure of every facet of ex-FBI and current FBI tactics and findings in the case.

What guarantees a jockey due process? He isn't an employee of the racetrack, and the racetrack is private property in many or most instances....
The TRPB and the FBI look like total shmucks in this case . . . an assertion we could discuss in depth if anyone cared, which I am pretty sure no one does. Apparently it doesn't interest anyone, for instance, that I am asserting no one here would have bet a dime on the horse Houghton was . . . well, not alleged . . . and not even rumored . . . just insinuated . . . to MAYBE have ridden inappropriately.

One does find a lot of chatter on boards like this about fairness, about due process, and on the other hand about nailing people who should be nailed, et cetera. In my humble opinion this non-case against Houghton has every appearance of being about the gang who couldn't arrest straight tracking down the gang who couldn't shoot straight. It is a fascinating story. It's about horse racing. Why is no one fascinated? Just because it doesn't fit the usual yada-yada, day-in-and-day-out cliched chatter about drugs and poppyseed bagels?

If the general public cared about horse racing, this case would get ink that would astound you. Terry Houghton has never been accused of anything. He's the Drefyus of minor-league racetracks. Either I have this right, or y'all ought to be' screaming that he's allowed to ride at more tracks than he's banned at.

[fmolf]

Yep. Also, Mullins saying he was unaware of the rules is an insult.. Everybody in racing knows you don't bring/do that shit in the detention barn...
this case is one more example of why all racing jurisdictions need to be playing by the same rules!the same regulations regarding drugs,how and when they're administered, and all post race rug testing.Racing needs to be standardized throughout the country.

[PaceAdvantage]

this case is one more example of why all racing jurisdictions need to be playing by the same rules!the same regulations regarding drugs,how and when they're administered, and all post race rug testing.Racing needs to be standardized throughout the country.Absolutely no excuse. One call to the stewards before he went to the detention barn would have given Mullins all the info he would have needed and this never would have happened...

[fmolf]

Of course. Tracks can ban me on grounds I might join the horseplayers' union. Or ban you because . . . well, as I said, for no reason at all. Just as Vegas can ban a gambler because he wins. So yes, you are correct by conventional wisdom. Though we'll have a better handle on that after Houghton's civil suit against Arlington is on the docket for the requisite three or four or five years. I expect a settlement will be reached (maybe we should make book on that), though I wish it would go to trial and a jury would award Terry the deed to Arlington Park. After, of course, disclosure of every facet of ex-FBI and current FBI tactics and findings in the case.


The TRPB and the FBI look like total shmucks in this case . . . an assertion we could discuss in depth if anyone cared, which I am pretty sure no one does. Apparently it doesn't interest anyone, for instance, that I am asserting no one here would have bet a dime on the horse Houghton was . . . well, not alleged . . . and not even rumored . . . just insinuated . . . to MAYBE have ridden inappropriately.

One does find a lot of chatter on boards like this about fairness, about due process, and on the other hand about nailing people who should be nailed, et cetera. In my humble opinion this non-case against Houghton has every appearance of being about the gang who couldn't arrest straight tracking down the gang who couldn't shoot straight. It is a fascinating story. It's about horse racing. Why is no one fascinated? Just because it doesn't fit the usual yada-yada, day-in-and-day-out cliched chatter about drugs and poppyseed bagels?

If the general public cared about horse racing, this case would get ink that would astound you. Terry Houghton has never been accused of anything. He's the Drefyus of minor-league racetracks. Either I have this right, or y'all ought to be' screaming that he's allowed to ride at more tracks than he's banned at.
i agree with you 100%...how many trainers send their horses out that are not well meant?Is this any different?maybe he was following his trainers orders.Noone is banning desormeux for his ride on big brown...this sounds like some sort ofwitch hunt to me

[andymays]

Mullins hearing concludes. Apparently both sides are supposed to sign a confidentiality agreement. Go figure!



http://www.drf.com/news/article/104941.html

excerpt:

Race-day security staff - who watched Mullins administer the medication but did not try to stop him - alerted the stewards of Mullins's actions, and the stewards scratched the horse. The New York State Racing and Wagering Board suspended Mullins seven days and fined him $2,500. Mullins served the penalty from May 3-9.

excerpt:

"It's clear this is a complete show trial, a Kangaroo court," said Karen Murphy, the attorney representing Mullins. "They want to keep it a secret until it's a fait accompli. At the end of the day we're talking about something that's already been fully admitted to. There's nothing to learn, so why is it a secret?"

[DeanT]

Absolutely no excuse. One call to the stewards before he went to the detention barn would have given Mullins all the info he would have needed and this never would have happened...
It does not take even that Pace. A drunk monkey knows that nothing is allowed in a Dbarn, whether you are in NY, the UK or Mars. I would have given him six months for stupidity.

[the little guy]

Mullins hearing concludes. Apparently both sides are supposed to sign a confidentiality agreement. Go figure!



http://www.drf.com/news/article/104941.html

excerpt:

Race-day security staff - who watched Mullins administer the medication but did not try to stop him - alerted the stewards of Mullins's actions, and the stewards scratched the horse. The New York State Racing and Wagering Board suspended Mullins seven days and fined him $2,500. Mullins served the penalty from May 3-9.

excerpt:

"It's clear this is a complete show trial, a Kangaroo court," said Karen Murphy, the attorney representing Mullins. "They want to keep it a secret until it's a fait accompli. At the end of the day we're talking about something that's already been fully admitted to. There's nothing to learn, so why is it a secret?"


We get it....you are a Mullins fan. Your loyalty is duly noted.

Next.

[andymays]

We get it....you are a Mullins fan. Your loyalty is duly noted.

Next.


Just completing the thread I started with the latest information. That's all!


Next.

[fmolf]

Just completing the thread I started with the latest information. That's all!


Next.
wow their really is a wide range of opinions on this one!his lawyer sees to think he has already been tried and convicted...what does he need her for if nothing new is about to be exposed!If i were mullins and i am not a fan of his i would tell those officials after the hearing that "i will not be running any more horse in your jurisdiction thank you."if in fact this hearing is about the same violation and nothing new is about to hit the proverbial fan!

[andymays]

wow their really is a wide range of opinions on this one!his lawyer sees to think he has already been tried and convicted...what does he need her for if nothing new is about to be exposed!If i were mullins and i am not a fan of his i would tell those officials after the hearing that "i will not be running any more horse in your jurisdiction thank you."if in fact this hearing is about the same violation and nothing new is about to hit the proverbial fan!

The point of the thread was to illustrate what I think is an example of grandstanding. It obviously turned into a hate Mullins thread with very few addressing the the point of thread.

Mullins was obviously at fault. He should have been punished and was. The problem is that when politics, personalities, Racing officials, the media come together justice is rarely done. The fact that the Racing officials want a confidentiality agreement is a red flag and goes a long way to proving my point. Taking three weeks for the Racing Officials to make another decision is just another red flag. What are they hiding from the public?


My position before was that the guards who looked in the bucket should have never let him proceed but they wanted to catch someobody! Who did this help in racing? Mullins was a knucklehead and so were the "supercops" who let him proceed.

This should have been put to bed right away and instead it's still out there. I know I'm in the minority here but this stuff hurts racing as much as any other issue.

Unfortunately this will be out there for another three plus weeks. Great!

[DJofSD]

The fact there is a confidentality agreement being used makes me very suspicous. Who's hiding what?

Like I said previously, the integrity of the game suffers and there's nothing that is coming from this latest te-ta-te betwen Mullins and the NYRA to change my mind.

It just SUX.

[PaceAdvantage]

My position before was that the guards who looked in the bucket should have never let him proceed but they wanted to catch someobody! Who did this help in racing? Mullins was a knucklehead and so were the "supercops" who let him proceed.Why are you deriding the NYRA guards with your "supercops" title? These guards are NOT there to inspect and determine what should and should not be allowed into the barn. They are most likely there to keep unauthorized people OUT of the barn, and to report to their superiors if they see something unusual.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that even if one of the guards said "hey, you're not allowed to bring that in here," Mullins would have replied "Oh, it's nothing but some all natural cough remedy."

Full blame lies with Mullins and Mullins only. Not the guards or anyone else. This isn't a "hate Mullins" reply, but an objective and thoughtful one.

The NYSRWB brought down their ruling and penalty on Mullins, and now NYRA has done the same with their Barn Violation Board or whatever they call it.

This is nothing unusual, this is not "double jeapordy" or any other such nonsense.

I do have a question for you though. If what you write in this thread...your opinions about this situation....are 100% accurate, why would Mullins agree to sign a confidentiality agreement?

I would think that if this was some kangaroo court or some giant waste of time, Mullins and his attorney would want the opportunity to tell their side to a waiting press. Not lock it away under some confidentiality agreement....

[andymays]

Why are you deriding the NYRA guards with your "supercops" title? These guards are NOT there to inspect and determine what should and should not be allowed into the barn. They are most likely there to keep unauthorized people OUT of the barn, and to report to their superiors if they see something unusual.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that even if one of the guards said "hey, you're not allowed to bring that in here," Mullins would have replied "Oh, it's nothing but some all natural cough remedy."

Full blame lies with Mullins and Mullins only. Not the guards or anyone else. This isn't a "hate Mullins" reply, but an objective and thoughtful one.

The NYSRWB brought down their ruling and penalty on Mullins, and now NYRA has done the same with their Barn Violation Board or whatever they call it.

This is nothing unusual, this is not "double jeapordy" or any other such nonsense.

I do have a question for you though. If what you write in this thread...your opinions about this situation....are 100% accurate, why would Mullins agree to sign a confidentiality agreement?

I would think that if this was some kangaroo court or some giant waste of time, Mullins and his attorney would want the opportunity to tell their side to a waiting press. Not lock it away under some confidentiality agreement....

I think the guards are there to prevent what happened. No?

And after that exchange in bold the "super cops" were supposed to say "you can't bring that in the detention barn".


It doesn't look like Mullins and his attorney want to sign it to me. Does it look that way to you?

excerpt:

"It's clear this is a complete show trial, a Kangaroo court," said Karen Murphy, the attorney representing Mullins. "They want to keep it a secret until it's a fait accompli. At the end of the day we're talking about something that's already been fully admitted to. There's nothing to learn, so why is it a secret?"

[fmolf]

Why are you deriding the NYRA guards with your "supercops" title? These guards are NOT there to inspect and determine what should and should not be allowed into the barn. They are most likely there to keep unauthorized people OUT of the barn, and to report to their superiors if they see something unusual.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that even if one of the guards said "hey, you're not allowed to bring that in here," Mullins would have replied "Oh, it's nothing but some all natural cough remedy."

Full blame lies with Mullins and Mullins only. Not the guards or anyone else. This isn't a "hate Mullins" reply, but an objective and thoughtful one.

The NYSRWB brought down their ruling and penalty on Mullins, and now NYRA has done the same with their Barn Violation Board or whatever they call it.

This is nothing unusual, this is not "double jeapordy" or any other such nonsense.

I do have a question for you though. If what you write in this thread...your opinions about this situation....are 100% accurate, why would Mullins agree to sign a confidentiality agreement?

I would think that if this was some kangaroo court or some giant waste of time, Mullins and his attorney would want the opportunity to tell their side to a waiting press. Not lock it away under some confidentiality agreement....
a very salient point.The more i learn about this case the more it smells!

[andymays]

a very salient point.The more i learn about this case the more it smells!


The whole thing smells. All the way from Mullins actions to the way it's being handled. Very strange.

I would think the little guy would have some inside information. Yes? No?

[Cadillakin]

And after that exchange in bold the "super cops" were supposed to say "you can't bring that in the detention barn".


It doesn't look like Mullins and his attorney want to sign it to me. Does it look that way to you?

excerpt:

"It's clear this is a complete show trial, a Kangaroo court," said Karen Murphy, the attorney representing Mullins. "They want to keep it a secret until it's a fait accompli. At the end of the day we're talking about something that's already been fully admitted to. There's nothing to learn, so why is it a secret?"
I'm no law expert.. but if he has paid his penance and there is nothing else to come out .. why is she signing the f****** confidentiality agreement? For no good reason?

[andymays]

I'm no law expert.. but if he has paid his penance and there is nothing else to come out .. why is she signing the f****** confidentiality agreement? For no good reason?


Don't know for sure but it's probably one of the conditions for him being allowed to ever race in New York again.

I've got a feeling there will be more legal action to come. But hey, look at all the fun we're having going back and forth!

[kenwoodallpromos]

I think Mullins enjoys skirting the rules.
Maybe the confidentiality involves what was said between the guards and Mullins- I doubt the guards saw the devices prior to Mullins whipping them out and using them. I doubt the guards have drug testing equiptment on hand, have the authority to stop him, or have the right to strip search trainers or owners.
Maybe the hinge point is rulings about ATTEMPTING to administer something.
Maybe Mullins' atty is arguing that if rules allowed Mullins to be stopped the horse could have run and won? Maybe Nullins is arging he SHOULD HAVE been strip searched, and his horse would have won? Maybe Mullins will pull a "Pletcher" and go to the NYS Supreme Court, claiming the horse could have just as easily picked up Air Power (instead of Cocaine) at a restaurant.
Never mind!!

[andymays]

I think Mullins enjoys skirting the rules.
Maybe the confidentiality involves what was said between the guards and Mullins- I doubt the guards saw the devices prior to Mullins whipping them out and using them. I doubt the guards have drug testing equiptment on hand, have the authority to stop him, or have the right to strip search trainers or owners.
Maybe the hinge point is rulings about ATTEMPTING to administer something.
Maybe Mullins' atty is arguing that if rules allowed Mullins to be stopped the horse could have run and won? Maybe Nullins is arging he SHOULD HAVE been strip searched, and his horse would have won? Maybe Mullins will pull a "Pletcher" and go to the NYS Supreme Court, claiming the horse could have just as easily picked up Air Power (instead of Cocaine) at a restaurant.
Never mind!!


There is no question that Mullins attitude has made things worse from the beginning.

The guards saw everything according to all acounts. They just chose to let him go ahead.

[Cadillakin]

I think Mullins enjoys skirting the rules.
Maybe the confidentiality involves what was said between the guards and Mullins- I doubt the guards saw the devices prior to Mullins whipping them out and using them. I doubt the guards have drug testing equiptment on hand, have the authority to stop him, or have the right to strip search trainers or owners.
Maybe the hinge point is rulings about ATTEMPTING to administer something.
Maybe Mullins' atty is arguing that if rules allowed Mullins to be stopped the horse could have run and won? Maybe Nullins is arging he SHOULD HAVE been strip searched, and his horse would have won? Maybe Mullins will pull a "Pletcher" and go to the NYS Supreme Court, claiming the horse could have just as easily picked up Air Power (instead of Cocaine) at a restaurant.
Never mind!!
Good post... I thought about that issue with the guards too.. but you fleshed it out quite a bit for me.. I think I have a better understanding now...

[fmolf]

Good post... I thought about that issue with the guards too.. but you fleshed it out quite a bit for me.. I think I have a better understanding now...
That makes sense. If he did not give the air power to the horse ,why did the stewards stop him from running the horse in the race?He may be on the counterattack,hence the need for confidentiality to protect the nyra's sorry beauracratic ass!...beautiful! :rolleyes:

[andymays]

That makes sense. If he did not give the air power to the horse ,why did the stewards stop him from running the horse in the race?He may be on the counterattack,hence the need for confidentiality to protect the nyra's sorry beauracratic ass!...beautiful! :rolleyes:


I sent out emails to some members of the media hoping one of them can dig up and report on the behind the scenes goings on.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Mullins said a bucket, which contained the Air Power, was on his person as he entered the security barn. He said NYRA personnel inspected the bucket, which also contained soap, a sponge, a dosing syringe, and nasal oinment.
After Mullins was cleared to go into the barn, he said he went into Gato Go Win's stall and administered the nasal ointment, a creme which he topically applied, and then gave the horse the Air Power. After NYRA personnel witnessed Mullins giving the Air Power, one of them asked him what it was. Minutes later, while the trainer was putting the bridle on the horse, a NYRA employee informed him Gato Go Win was going to be scratched.
"No items that I brought into the NYRA Detention Barn on April 4 were questioned after the required examination by NYRA personnel. Is that an excuse? No. Did I have a reasonable expectation that "security" would have given me a heads up? Yes."
Appearantly, it may be legal to have the substance Air Power with you in the detention barn, but not administer it to the horse in the barn. If I rememb er right, Air Power may not be given to a horse within 4 hours of post time, and not at all in the detention barn. Again, there are different rules of some kinds under the NYRA and the NY state wagering commission.
IMHO, another example of racing not having uniform rules.
I say Muillins already got some kind of punishment, enough is enough.

I changed MHO- "sock" it to him!! Another MUllins quiote:
"Racing association officials said the rules were clear. “It doesn’t really matter what the substance was — you cannot give a horse anything on race day in New York,” said Stephen Duncker, the racing association’s chairman.

Mullins said he had been using Air Power, which its maker, Finish Line, says on its Web site will not test positive at any American racetrack. He likened it to a liquid cough drop. ****He said Gato Go Win did not have a cold****, but added that Air Power had become part of his prerace routine for most of his horses.

****“It could have been the other horse getting scratched,” Mullins said, referring to I Want Revenge****, who, two races later, overcame a rough trip to win the $750,000 Wood Memorial and stamp himself as the early Derby favorite.

“It was an honest mistake,” Mullins said.

Mullins could not clearly articulate what advantage he believed the substance gave his horses if they did not have a cough.

“Why do you put socks on with your shoes?” he responded."

[andymays]

I sent out emails to some members of the media hoping one of them can dig up and report on the behind the scenes goings on.

This from John Pricci:

That's exactly what I thought after I read that, too. I'm planning to snoop around, driving down to see Rachel on Saturday.----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
To: pricci@horseraceinsider.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:03 AM
Subject: Mullin Hearing

You have to ask, why does the NYRA want a confidentiality agreement in this case? In my opinion they are overreaching and grandstanding. Although Mullins messed up here something more is going on.

Excerpt:
"It's clear this is a complete show trial, a Kangaroo court," said Karen Murphy, the attorney representing Mullins. "They want to keep it a secret until it's a fait accompli. At the end of the day we're talking about something that's already been fully admitted to. There's nothing to learn, so why is it a secret?"

http://www.drf.com/news/article/104941.html


Thanks,

Andy

[saratoga guy]

The first question to be asked -- that no one seems to even be contemplating -- are confidentiality agreements standard operating procedure for these kinds of hearings?

If so, then -- while I'm an advocate of transparency -- this wouldn't be as "suspicious" as people are making it out to be...

[andymays]

The first question to be asked -- that no one seems to even be contemplating -- are confidentiality agreements standard operating procedure for these kinds of hearings?

If so, then -- while I'm an advocate of transparency -- this wouldn't be as "suspicious" as people are making it out to be...


SG, this is exactly the point of my original argument. I believe some of the press and Racing Officials grandstand for the public when it come to issues like this . In this case it appears that because of public pressure and the ego's involved the Racing Officials in New York are overreaching and don't want the public to know the details. In my opinion they are trying to force Mullins to sign the confidentiality agreement if he ever wants to train in New York again.

I hope someone in the media gets to the bottom of this. I will post any other responses I get from the other emails I sent out.

[Cadillakin]

In my opinion they are trying to force Mullins to sign the confidentiality agreement if he ever wants to train in New York again.

I think you're taking a lot of liberty with that statement, Andy. If Mullins has in fact, done his penance and there is nothing else to punish him for... then he shouldn't sign...

And he should also expose any racing authorities that would attempt to coerce him into signing such documents while simultaneous threatening to ban him from their locale.. That would go beyond mutually beneficial agreements.. It would border on extortion..

If he were to do so - expose them for coercing and threatening him, Mullins would come out WAYYYYYYYY on top... and those guys/gals on the other side would be toast.

But that's not what's happening.. I'm pretty sure of that..

[saratoga guy]

SG, this is exactly the point of my original argument. I believe some of the press and Racing Officials grandstand for the public when it come to issues like this . In this case it appears that because of public pressure and the ego's involved the Racing Officials in New York are overreaching and don't want the public to know the details. In my opinion they are trying to force Mullins to sign the confidentiality agreement if he ever wants to train in New York again.

I hope someone in the media gets to the bottom of this. I will post any other responses I get from the other emails I sent out.

I thought the story was badly handled by the press when it first broke -- and I wrote as much.

Now I think it just is what it is. As I said earlier in this thread, with the scrutiny NYRA has been under for the past few years I'm sure they want to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed in a high-profile case.

I really don't think there's anything here beyond that...

[andymays]

I think you're taking a lot of liberty with that statement, Andy. If Mullins has in fact, done his penance and there is nothing else to punish him for... then he shouldn't sign...

And he should also expose any racing authorities that would attempt to coerce him into signing such documents while simultaneous threatening to ban him from their locale.. That would go beyond mutually beneficial agreements.. It would border on extortion..

If he were to do so - expose them for coercing and threatening him, Mullins would come out WAYYYYYYYY on top... and those guys/gals on the other side would be toast.

But that's not what's happening.. I'm pretty sure of that..


I am taking liberty with the statement and that's why I stated it was my opinion and not fact. If I were him I would not sign. It will be interesting to see what shakes out.

This is the latest article from Karen Johnson of the BloodHorse Magazine:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51388/nyra-concludes--investigation-on-mullins

[Dahoss9698]

Am I the only one enjoying the irony of the threadstarter here thinking someone else is grandstanding? I mean come on. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black.

[slewis]

I thought the story was badly handled by the press when it first broke -- and I wrote as much.

Now I think it just is what it is. As I said earlier in this thread, with the scrutiny NYRA has been under for the past few years I'm sure they want to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed in a high-profile case.

I really don't think there's anything here beyond that...

Dot I's and cross T's..????? You dont really believe this now.....

If you think NYRA is just "doing a good job" in this situation, then go and read Indultos franchise thread update... The one where NYRA is refusing to comply with something as simple, yet important, as a Budget release for 2009.
(I guarantee there are MANY others as well)

This scenario is more typical crap from the typically phony NYRA executives.

So let me pose this question: If Jeff Mullins gets another triple crown contender, wins the derby and preakness.... but NYRA bans him from racing in NY... now what??? No Belmont? Yeah right...
How convienient, the guy trains on the West Coast... has a red neck mentality, and NYRA wants to use him as their whipping boy.

Now I'll say this about the current NYRA... They are in trouble..big trouble...I think they calculated that enough politicos would greet slots with open arms.
Big mistake.
NYRA put a gun to the heads of many.... and some of those hold the power to keep slots away from racetracks in Southern NY 4-ever.
I fear the worst.... which is Pols will hold out and watch NYRA die a slow death... and racing in NY will suffer as the whole mess ends up in the courts.

Jeff Mullins will get the last laugh...

[andymays]

www.rogerstein.com for the archived show today Saturday 6-27

Roger addresses this issue among others. Worth a listen!

[fmolf]

Dot I's and cross T's..????? You dont really believe this now.....

If you think NYRA is just "doing a good job" in this situation, then go and read Indultos franchise thread update... The one where NYRA is refusing to comply with something as simple, yet important, as a Budget release for 2009.
(I guarantee there are MANY others as well)

This scenario is more typical crap from the typically phony NYRA executives.

So let me pose this question: If Jeff Mullins gets another triple crown contender, wins the derby and preakness.... but NYRA bans him from racing in NY... now what??? No Belmont? Yeah right...
How convienient, the guy trains on the West Coast... has a red neck mentality, and NYRA wants to use him as their whipping boy.

Now I'll say this about the current NYRA... They are in trouble..big trouble...I think they calculated that enough politicos would greet slots with open arms.
Big mistake.
NYRA put a gun to the heads of many.... and some of those hold the power to keep slots away from racetracks in Southern NY 4-ever.
I fear the worst.... which is Pols will hold out and watch NYRA die a slow death... and racing in NY will suffer as the whole mess ends up in the courts.

Jeff Mullins will get the last laugh...the nyra already went bankrupt once and then they received an extension to run the tracks for another whatever amt of years! ...So how could they be in trouble when the politicians do not even have enough foresight to rid themselves of this giant albatross!their are all kinds of insider deals ,political favor jobs and back door sweetheart agreements that is protecting the nyra...They would have been out of business many times over if they had to answer to real live stockholders!Or turn a profit to survive and keep their jobs!

[PaceAdvantage]

the nyra already went bankrupt once and then they received an extension to run the tracks for another whatever amt of years! ...So how could they be in trouble when the politicians do not even have enough foresight to rid themselves of this giant albatross!their are all kinds of insider deals ,political favor jobs and back door sweetheart agreements that is protecting the nyra...They would have been out of business many times over if they had to answer to real live stockholders!Or turn a profit to survive and keep their jobs!For a minute there, I thought you were talking about NYCOTB....lol

[Imriledup]

Has anyone answered the question as to why the security guards checked the buckets and then didn't mention that Air Power was a violation? Especially considering that Mullins is an out of town trainer who seldom runs a horse in NY?

Why bother checking the buckets if you are going to permit a banned substance into the barns?

If i went to an airport with a gun, would they let me on the plane and then wait until i shot the gun to punish me?

I have a feeling that this is just New York trying to punish the out of towner. If this happened to a NY based trainer, there's no way it would have gotten this far.

[andymays]

Has anyone answered the question as to why the security guards checked the buckets and then didn't mention that Air Power was a violation? Especially considering that Mullins is an out of town trainer who seldom runs a horse in NY?

Why bother checking the buckets if you are going to permit a banned substance into the barns?

If i went to an airport with a gun, would they let me on the plane and then wait until i shot the gun to punish me?

I have a feeling that this is just New York trying to punish the out of towner. If this happened to a NY based trainer, there's no way it would have gotten this far.


John Pricci is digging into this and I hope he finds out what the confidentiality agreement is all about as well. In an email he said he had found out a few things and was putting it all together! Lets hope he does.

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/06282009-shes-a-different-class/

[fmolf]

For a minute there, I thought you were talking about NYCOTB....lol
you are absolutley right! :lol: rather ambigiuos!

[PaceAdvantage]

Has anyone answered the question as to why the security guards checked the buckets and then didn't mention that Air Power was a violation? Especially considering that Mullins is an out of town trainer who seldom runs a horse in NY?Who knows what exactly happened before Mullins entered the barn...who is claiming the buckets were "checked?"

Does anyone really believe a couple of security guards are required to be well versed in what is allowed? As far as I know, NOTHING is allowed...makes it pretty simple when you think about it...

Then again, maybe you can bring something in, you just can't USE IT? Who knows the technicalities. Perhaps there is a giant sign outside the barn...maybe someone who's actually been to the detention barn can fill us in....

I would assume the guards' main responsibility is to make sure anyone entering the detention barn has the proper credentials. That is probably their one and only job.