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Robert Goren
06-18-2009, 01:57 PM
Does anyone keep stats on how jockeys perform on off tracks?

46zilzal
06-18-2009, 01:58 PM
Does anyone keep stats on how jockeys perform on off tracks?
The horses like or dislike the track, not the rider,

IF the riders had anything to do with it, you would find them in the Pacific Northwest

ranchwest
06-18-2009, 02:03 PM
The horses like or dislike the track, not the rider
You do understand that jockeys have to change goggles more frequently on an off track, right? Just one of many reasons the jock could make a difference.

Valuist
06-18-2009, 02:04 PM
T-Graph has numbers on it. I know Jorge Chavez has had very good numbers in the past on off tracks.

46zilzal
06-18-2009, 02:07 PM
You do understand that jockeys have to change goggles more frequently on an off track, right? Just one of many reasons the jock could make a difference.
Good riders ride, good MUD horses run on the mud. When they get together the HORSE shows its stuff

Greyfox
06-18-2009, 02:39 PM
Some jockeys, particularly at B ovals, are pathetic in mud and slop. They take extreme caution. If you can identify them, they're a toss even on a supposed mudder.

46zilzal
06-18-2009, 02:43 PM
Some jockeys, particularly at B ovals, are pathetic in mud and slop. They take extreme caution. If you can identify them, they're a toss even on a supposed mudder.
We have a guy like that here who, in his native land, rode nothing but TURF so the front end is foreign to him. Last week on a horse suggesting it would wire the field EASILY, he did his normal thing and broke this speedster last and tried (fighting the horse's natural style) to come from out of it. No wonder he is a 6% rider.

Jake
06-18-2009, 03:00 PM
The horses like or dislike the track, not the rider,

IF the riders had anything to do with it, you would find them in the Pacific Northwest

Which is exactly where you often find them. Jockeys have off track expertise just like any other expertise, so it is about the rider as well.

Jake

JWBurnie
06-18-2009, 03:35 PM
We have a guy like that here who, in his native land, rode nothing but TURF so the front end is foreign to him. Last week on a horse suggesting it would wire the field EASILY, he did his normal thing and broke this speedster last and tried (fighting the horse's natural style) to come from out of it. No wonder he is a 6% rider.

While I do agree...the horse has to like the mud. As for the rider...I couldn't disagree with you more. I think the removal of spent goggles is an art that riders learn over time. I saw a jock at CT ride in the slop for the first time in his race career.... 4 1/2 furlongs, broke slow. Within the first 1/16th or so he went to remove his first pair...instead of grabbing the top pair he grabbed all...he looked awful when he came back. He was sandblasted to the eyes and face for a 1/2 mile... his eyes didn't even look open. The main factor I see with jocks in the slop are those that shy away from kickback, taking back or changing paths (horse too, obviously).

fmolf
06-18-2009, 03:45 PM
While I do agree...the horse has to like the mud. As for the rider...I couldn't disagree with you more. I think the removal of spent goggles is an art that riders learn over time. I saw a jock at CT ride in the slop for the first time in his race career.... 4 1/2 furlongs, broke slow. Within the first 1/16th or so he went to remove his first pair...instead of grabbing the top pair he grabbed all...he looked awful when he came back. He was sandblasted to the eyes and face for a 1/2 mile... his eyes didn't even look open. The main factor I see with jocks in the slop are those that shy away from kickback, taking back or changing paths (horse too, obviously).
I have found thru my own observation, and not any database i keep. I normally do not gamble on muddy/sloppy and off the turf days. That jockeys who are good out of the gate and can hustle their mounts to the front usually have a good shot at winning because it is harder for horses to grip the track and accelerate in the slop

fmolf
06-18-2009, 03:58 PM
While I do agree...the horse has to like the mud. As for the rider...I couldn't disagree with you more. I think the removal of spent goggles is an art that riders learn over time. I saw a jock at CT ride in the slop for the first time in his race career.... 4 1/2 furlongs, broke slow. Within the first 1/16th or so he went to remove his first pair...instead of grabbing the top pair he grabbed all...he looked awful when he came back. He was sandblasted to the eyes and face for a 1/2 mile... his eyes didn't even look open. The main factor I see with jocks in the slop are those that shy away from kickback, taking back or changing paths (horse too, obviously).
I have found thru my own observation, and not any database i keep. I normally do not gamble on muddy/sloppy and off the turf days. That jockeys who are good out of the gate and can hustle their mounts to the front usually have a good shot at winning because it is harder for horses to grip the track and accelerate in the slop coming down the stretch

ManeMediaMogul
06-18-2009, 05:37 PM
I once Laffit Pincay, Jr. MAKE a horse of Laz Barrera's win in the mud. I can't remember the colt's name, but he was resenting the track for the first five furlongs and Laffit started pushing on him and made him run at the three eighths pole. He was owned by Mill House and won going away at Santa Anita. It was an amazing performance and made me a Laffit fan from them on.

He was the only jockey I have ever seen who could MAKE a horse win. He could impose his will on them and they would respond.

Jake
06-18-2009, 05:43 PM
I once Laffit Pincay, Jr. MAKE a horse of Laz Barrera's win in the mud. I can't remember the colt's name, but he was resenting the track for the first five furlongs and Laffit started pushing on him and made him run at the three eighths pole. He was owned by Mill House and won going away at Santa Anita. It was an amazing performance and made me a Laffit fan from them on.

He was the only jockey I have ever seen who could MAKE a horse win. He could impose his will on them and they would respond.

There's some jockeys that can do that. Baze in N.Calif comes to mind. Just very strong on off tracks and knows where to run the horse. That's why jockeys are critical on off tracks.


Jake

ranchwest
06-18-2009, 07:10 PM
Good riders ride, good MUD horses run on the mud. When they get together the HORSE shows its stuff

The only thing I can say for your position is that it is consistent.

fmolf
06-18-2009, 07:23 PM
The only thing I can say for your position is that it is consistent.
we can all agree with that ...

fmolf
06-21-2009, 05:23 PM
we can all agree with that ...
i just saw dominguez cost cocoabeach a chance trying to rate her in a 4 horse race....finished last!

juanepstein
06-21-2009, 05:32 PM
panamanians

"off tracks hav bean bery bery gud to dem"

eastie
06-22-2009, 10:43 AM
Some jockeys, particularly at B ovals, are pathetic in mud and slop. They take extreme caution. If you can identify them, they're a toss even on a supposed mudder.

how true. there are some guys who won't even ride when it's muddy. others who takes the turns nice and slow too, so they don't fall off. some guys don't want to get a speck of mud on them so they send everything off it's feet, and if they get passed they just wrap up.

HuggingTheRail
06-22-2009, 11:59 AM
We have a guy like that here who, in his native land, rode nothing but TURF so the front end is foreign to him. Last week on a horse suggesting it would wire the field EASILY, he did his normal thing and broke this speedster last and tried (fighting the horse's natural style) to come from out of it. No wonder he is a 6% rider.

And, in his day, C Loseth knew that an off-track at Hastings/ExPark meant that speed would often DOMINATE even more, and would put a horse who normally ran off the pace up on the lead - and sometimes do well.

The horse must like the goo...but there are one or two jocks @ Hastings I downgrade on an off-track as they do not ride with the same agressiveness