Secretariat movie

[46zilzal]

Good friend has found a link to a Disney movie about Penny Chenery. INFO here: http://www.leftcoastracing.com/

[joanied]

Hey Zil....
I've been kinda following this story...I was starting to think they'd decided not to make the movie...I guess Diane Lane is the first to be cast for it...I'm a fan of hers (Lonesome Dove, Perfect Storm) and think she'll do a bangup job playing Penny Tweedy....
but as the article says, I also hope that they don't minimalize the horse, trainer, ex.rider, groom, jockey and everyone esle involved...including Sham and his connections...
can't wait to see who gets cast for the other parts...

maybe this would be kinda fun...who do we think would be the best actors to play:
Lucien L
Turcotte
Sweat
Charlie

I goota think about it...but off the top, maybe Gary Stevens as Turcotte??
:) :) :)

[SMOO]

Good friend has found a link to a Disney movie about Penny Chenery. INFO here: http://www.leftcoastracing.com/

I love this quote:

"I’ve always thought that the ideal Secretariat bio-pic would focus on the Triple Crown. Those three races, with perhaps the Wood Memorial as a prologue, would form a great story arc. In many ways it would parallel Homer’s Iliad, with Secretariat and Sham playing the roles of Achilles and Hector, respectively, and their human connections as the supporting cast, rather than the centre of the story. In this context, the 1973 Belmont would be equivalent to Achilles dragging Hector’s body around the walls of Troy."

:lol:

[joanied]

SMOO...me too...but IMO, the race at Woodbine would be a fitting ending to the story...as a final shot...Secretariat coming into view through the misty fog, great music, slow motion...as he races for the last time... into history and legend.
Geeze...just gave myself gossebumps:)

[46zilzal]

SMOO...me too...but IMO, the race at Woodbine would be a fitting ending to the story...as a final shot...Secretariat coming into view through the misty fog, great music, slow motion...as he races for the last time... into history and legend.

Eddie Maple said, never before and never since, had he ridden a horse that cornered as fast as he did.

[CincyHorseplayer]

How about an ending where there is a mix of past myths and a mythological ending??

Secretariat emerges from the fog,crosses the wire by 30 lengths and runs off the edge of the world into the abyss,of immortality:D

[LottaKash]

He set the Track-Record in all three of his Triple Crown Races....I still can't get over that....What a hoss'.....Big Red, the Best ever....:jump:

best,

[46zilzal]

I have a good friend, a breeder, who points out that no less than 15 track records were set at Belmont in 1973 so that track was a bit souped up.

[RaceBookJoe]

How about an ending where there is a mix of past myths and a mythological ending??

Secretariat emerges from the fog,crosses the wire by 30 lengths and runs off the edge of the world into the abyss,of immortality:D

While you are at it...maybe Secretariat could be hooked up to a harness pulling the Titanic up from the depths haha. rbj

[Cadillakin]

I have a good friend, a breeder, who points out that no less than 15 track records were set at Belmont in 1973 so that track was a bit souped up.
That was also true when Spectacular Bid was flying around the Hollywood Park race track. Paint King, who couldn't get out of the nw2 condition in two years of racing even tied the track record running behind Bid...

Fastest track I ever saw right then and there.. and I've seen many in California.

[46zilzal]

That was also true when Spectacular Bid was flying around the Hollywood Park race track. Paint King, who couldn't get out of the nw2 condition in two years of racing even tied the track record running behind Bid...

Fastest track I ever saw right then and there.. and I've seen many in California.
I contend that if really good ones had run at Turf Paradise and old Longacres, MOST of the world's records would still be there (the crazy recent track at Santa Anita not withstanding)

[CincyHorseplayer]

I have a good friend, a breeder, who points out that no less than 15 track records were set at Belmont in 1973 so that track was a bit souped up.

Zil while I think you make good points normally I think you're looking for the soiled side of the diaper here.

As Lottakash pointed out Big Red broke records in every one of his TC races.

If you really want to down him he had only 20 opponents in all 3 of his TC races.

But IMO he really was THAT good.He may have put up the record on a souped up Belmont track but he did it elsewhere also,in peaking form,and to my knowledge 2 of those records still stand,on souped up tracks in the 36 years since.

If you're into debunking read Nietzsche's "The Antichrist"!!!

[46zilzal]

I am up front promoting him all the time, I just pointed out what a friend (the only dissenting voice to his greatness) said.

I remember him this way on a great day (November 5 1985)

[reckless]

hello zilzal, everyone:

Secretariat tied a track record going a mile (1:33 2-5 seconds) winning the Gotham Stakes at Aqueduct in April 1973.

He also set a track record on the turf at Belmont Park going 1 1-2 miles in a spritely 2:24 4-5 seconds, beating a gritty Tentam by five lengths with the accomplished Big Spruce a well-beaten third, in October 1973. It was his turf debut and I personally witnessed every jump in a very exciting race.

Tentam, a very under-rated runner who was multiple graded winner on both dirt and grass, had crushed a long-standing track record at Saratoga in August of '73 running nine furlongs in 1:45 2-5, a record that I believe still stands.

Secretariat was also a tick or two off from setting additional track records at Saratoga, Laurel and Arlington Park.

Needless to say Big Red was one for the ages and the one every throughbred race horse should be compared.

[CincyHorseplayer]

hello zilzal, everyone:

Secretariat tied a track record going a mile (1:33 2-5 seconds) winning the Gotham Stakes at Aqueduct in April 1973.

He also set a track record on the turf at Belmont Park going 1 1-2 miles in a spritely 2:24 4-5 seconds, beating a gritty Tentam by five lengths with the accomplished Big Spruce a well-beaten third, in October 1973. It was his turf debut and I personally witnessed every jump in a very exciting race.

Tentam, a very under-rated runner who was multiple graded winner on both dirt and grass, had crushed a long-standing track record at Saratoga in August of '73 running nine furlongs in 1:45 2-5, a record that I believe still stands.

Secretariat was also a tick or two off from setting additional track records at Saratoga, Laurel and Arlington Park.

Needless to say Big Red was one for the ages and the one every throughbred race horse should be compared.

Excellent post:ThmbUp:

[tucker6]

SMOO...me too...but IMO, the race at Woodbine would be a fitting ending to the story...as a final shot...Secretariat coming into view through the misty fog, great music, slow motion...as he races for the last time... into history and legend.
Geeze...just gave myself gossebumps:)
with steam blowing from his nostrils like a factory whistle at the end of a shift. A lasting image of a mythical creature running into legend.

People ask why we don't make Secretariats anymore. We never made Secretariats. He appeared for a short time and then was gone. The only true freak we've ever seen. He had all the best of his species in one body. What are the chances we see that again??

[Cadillakin]

hello zilzal, everyone:

Secretariat tied a track record going a mile (1:33 2-5 seconds) winning the Gotham Stakes at Aqueduct in April 1973.

He also set a track record on the turf at Belmont Park going 1 1-2 miles in a spritely 2:24 4-5 seconds, beating a gritty Tentam by five lengths with the accomplished Big Spruce a well-beaten third, in October 1973. It was his turf debut and I personally witnessed every jump in a very exciting race.

Tentam, a very under-rated runner who was multiple graded winner on both dirt and grass, had crushed a long-standing track record at Saratoga in August of '73 running nine furlongs in 1:45 2-5, a record that I believe still stands.

Secretariat was also a tick or two off from setting additional track records at Saratoga, Laurel and Arlington Park.

Needless to say Big Red was one for the ages and the one every throughbred race horse should be compared.
If one is dazzled by speed records, I don't think any horse of the last century holds a candle to Swaps... even the great Secretariat. Swaps probably never got his due because he was owned not by one of the breeding elite, but by a hick cowboy - or so they said.

Check this out;

at 3:

* 1st - San Vicente Stakes
* 1st - Santa Anita Derby
* 1st - Kentucky Derby (front-running effort with a time of 2:01 4/5, 2/5 off the track record;
* 1st - Will Rogers Stakes (by 12 lengths; first race in which Swaps was the betting favorite; favored in all subsequent races)
* 1st - Californian Stakes (new world record for 8 1/2 furlongs with time of 1:40 2/5, "almost casually")
* 1st - Westerner Stakes (front-running effort, "drew out at will" in the stretch to open a 10-length lead, won by 6 lengths after being eased at odds of 1-20; win betting only for a five-horse field)
* 1st - American Derby on turf (front-running effort "under restraint"; new course record, equalled American record; win and place betting only for a six-horse field)
* 2nd - Match race with Nashua

at 4:

* 1st - LA County Fair Handicap (came from behind and drew away "under wraps")
* 1st - Broward Handicap (new world record for 1 mile 70 yd with time of 1:39 3/5, carrying 130 lb., conceding at least 15 pounds to all rivals; had "mouth open" due to snug hold early and was eased late)
* 2nd - Californian (jockey Shoemaker "shut down" Swaps with less than 1/16 mile to go and a 4 length lead. Porterhouse got up for the surprise win)
* 1st - Argonaut Handicap (new world record for 1 mile with time of 1:33 1/5, replacing former record by Citation)
* 1st - Inglewood (new World record for 8 1/2 furlongs with time of 1:39 flat, carrying 130 lb.; mile split was 1:32 3/5, 3/5 faster than his own world record)
* 1st - American Handicap (equalled Noor's world record of 1:46 4/5 for 1 1/8 miles, carrying 130 lb.; conceded 19 lb. to runner-up Mister Gus; win betting only for a five-horse field)
* 1st - Hollywood Gold Cup Stakes (new track record of 1:58 3/5 for 1 1/4 miles, lowering previous mark by a full second, carrying 130 lb.; win betting only despite a seven-horse field)
* 1st - Sunset Handicap (new track and world record for 1 5/8 miles with time of 2:38 1/5, lowering previous track record by 2 2/5 seconds, carrying 130 lb.; front-running effort "under stout restraint, eased in the last sixteenth of a mile)
* 7th - Arch Ward Memorial Handicap (well-beaten on a soft turf course apparently unsuitable to his sore condition)
* 1st - Washington Park Handicap (new track record of 1:33 2/5 for a mile carrying 130 lb.; six furlong split was 1:07 4/5, 2 full seconds faster than the track record)

Award winning journalist Morton Cathro wrote: "The ease with which he set those world records, going to the front and just saying goodbye, just more or less humbling his opponents—all of this despite fighting a recurring foot infection that never really went away entirely...look at the charts—in many of his races where he set world records, he was eased up. He was just so, so spectacular and so dominating."

[eastie]

That post was freakin awesome ! thank you sir

[LottaKash]

What a match race that might've been Swaps and Big Red.... Foolish thought maybe, but I wonder....

best,

[RaceBookJoe]

What a match race that might've been Swaps and Big Red.... Foolish thought maybe, but I wonder....

best,

What someone should do is steal the idea from the tv show " Deadliest Warrior". Have someone create computer program and input all the data from maybe 12 of the best horses...using every criteria from the horses records...such as speed/pace, hidden fraction bursts etc....and then let the program run 1000 times and see who comes out on top. First run the program on dirt, then try turf. Swaps had speed but since i only saw a couple of his races on film...i cant tell if he had that "extra gear" that Secretariat had. rbj

[Cadillakin]

What someone should do is steal the idea from the tv show " Deadliest Warrior". Have someone create computer program and input all the data from maybe 12 of the best horses...using every criteria from the horses records...such as speed/pace, hidden fraction bursts etc....and then let the program run 1000 times and see who comes out on top. First run the program on dirt, then try turf. Swaps had speed but since i only saw a couple of his races on film...i cant tell if he had that "extra gear" that Secretariat had. rbj
When a horse sets four WORLD records, and pulverizes track records while racing under a hold.. I'm guessing he had extra gears to spare..

[RaceBookJoe]

When a horse sets four WORLD records, and pulverizes track records while racing under a hold.. I'm guessing he had extra gears to spare..

I am not doubting that...just saying that i havent watched enough of Swaps races to see it. Based on his record, he would have to be included in the above computer program though without a doubt. rbj

[RaceBookJoe]

When a horse sets four WORLD records, and pulverizes track records while racing under a hold.. I'm guessing he had extra gears to spare..

I notice a few CA races in there...which always ran a bit faster. The only race i think you can A/B is the Kentucky Derby in which Big Red ran 2 2/5ths faster than Swaps, which in old school speak is a 12 length victory for Secretariat. Again, not taking anything away from Swaps....but its probably impossible to compare horses from a different era. rbj

[CincyHorseplayer]

Why try to steal Big Red's thunder on a thread about him by mentioning another horse??It's not irrelevant but kind of bad taste IMO.

[joanied]

Why try to steal Big Red's thunder on a thread about him by mentioning another horse??It's not irrelevant but kind of bad taste IMO.

Oh, Cincy...thank you for this post:ThmbUp::ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

If one person brings up one other horse to try and start comparing...then other horses will be mentioned...and it'll go on & on & on...we've had our 'greatest' horses threads...and they are fun and interesting....but this is about the Secretariat movie:)

[joanied]

Eddie Maple said, never before and never since, had he ridden a horse that cornered as fast as he did.

Indeed...and also has to be the best Eddie ever rode...I felt bad for Turcotte, Big Red's last race and he couldn't ride him...across the wire into legend and myth:)

[joanied]

I have a good friend, a breeder, who points out that no less than 15 track records were set at Belmont in 1973 so that track was a bit souped up.

Hey Zil...don't be a party pooper:p
:)

[Cadillakin]

Why try to steal Big Red's thunder on a thread about him by mentioning another horse??It's not irrelevant but kind of bad taste IMO.
His thunder? What do you think, I'm going to hurt his feelings? I responded to a posting about Secretariat's track records with a posting of my own about track records...

As noted, some were unaware of the greatness and the brilliant speed of Swaps.

[Cadillakin]

I notice a few CA races in there...which always ran a bit faster. The only race i think you can A/B is the Kentucky Derby in which Big Red ran 2 2/5ths faster than Swaps, which in old school speak is a 12 length victory for Secretariat. Again, not taking anything away from Swaps....but its probably impossible to compare horses from a different era. rbj
Yes, as you noted, Swaps raced in 1955 -56. Conditions were different.. But do note that his time was only 2/5ths off the existing record. Swaps didn't come to his full powers until he was 4...

He broke records on four different racetracks including two Eastern tracks and he did so on both surfaces, turf and dirt.

[CincyHorseplayer]

His thunder? What do you think, I'm going to hurt his feelings? I responded to a posting about Secretariat's track records with a posting of my own about track records...

As noted, some were unaware of the greatness and the brilliant speed of Swaps.

Nobody mentioned Swaps.Nobody started a thread about Swaps.Start another thread about Swaps.This thread wasn't about track records either,it was about a Secretariat movie.If you just pick up 2 words out of any thread and find relevance we all need to just put up post after post of random thoughts as a header.I just see no need to water down the greatness of Secretariat with another horse's records.Do you understand that.It's common sense and simple manners IMO.But hey if your not about that swing away allstar:cool:

[Cadillakin]

Nobody mentioned Swaps.Nobody started a thread about Swaps.Start another thread about Swaps.This thread wasn't about track records either,it was about a Secretariat movie.If you just pick up 2 words out of any thread and find relevance we all need to just put up post after post of random thoughts as a header.I just see no need to water down the greatness of Secretariat with another horse's records.Do you understand that.It's common sense and simple manners IMO.But hey if your not about that swing away allstar:cool:
I got it.. You're the monitor... the manners police... I'll keep that in mind...

[CincyHorseplayer]

I got it.. You're the monitor... the manners police... I'll keep that in mind...

Not at all.But if nobody else will say it someone has to.They say cream rises to the top but so do turds.Gotta point it out when one does and you're it.And if it's brown,flush it down:lol:

[RaceBookJoe]

Yes, as you noted, Swaps raced in 1955 -56. Conditions were different.. But do note that his time was only 2/5ths off the existing record. Swaps didn't come to his full powers until he was 4...

He broke records on four different racetracks including two Eastern tracks and he did so on both surfaces, turf and dirt.

Swaps = Arne Andersson....broke 3 world records
Secretariat = Roger Bannister ....broke the 'unbreakable' rbj

[Cadillakin]

Not at all.But if nobody else will say it someone has to.They say cream rises to the top but so do turds.Gotta point it out when one does and you're it.And if it's brown,flush it down:lol:
I'm sure that your posting did nothing whatsoever to enhance your credibility nor diminish mine.. and that, my friend, was your obvious intent.

I have to confess, that in all my years of posting, your posting above is the most immature I've ever seen... Are you so removed from reality that you think adults actually think that kind of talk is funny?

[CincyHorseplayer]

I'm sure that your posting did nothing whatsoever to enhance your credibility nor diminish mine.. and that, my friend, was your obvious intent.

I have to confess, that in all my years of posting, your posting above is the most immature I've ever seen... Are you so removed from reality that you think adults actually think that kind of talk is funny?

I'm not the one that was trying to soil the subject at hand.And yes,the principle is you talk down to the level of degenerate intentions.I've said all I had to say on this.Give Big Red the thread back.

[Sid]

This thread wasn't about track records either,it was about a Secretariat movie.
Actually, the first post in the thread is a link to a blog item bitching that the movie is about Chenery and not about Secretariat.

[46zilzal]

Actually, the first post in the thread is a link to a blog item bitching that the movie is about Chenery and not about Secretariat.
Hardly bitching as it was I who first posted it here.

[Sid]

Well, I don't know. I spent much of my adult life being paid to read, and if what I read in the following isn't bitching about the movie being about Chenery rather than Secretariat, I guess I oughta pay back a few decades worth of wages:

While it’s great that this long-rumoured project is finally getting the go-ahead, and that Penny Chenery’s full backing and co-operation will hopefully help to minimize the inevitable “Hollywood-ization”, I have a real concern that the movie will not be what fans hope for. According to the June 12 press release, “The script, written by Mike Rich of Finding Forrester and The Rookie, tells Mrs. Chenery’s compelling story of a suburban housewife and mother’s rise to be the “first lady of racing” after taking the reins of Meadow Farm after her father fell ill.”

This suggests to me that, as historically accurate as it might be, the focus of the movie won’t be on Secretariat, but rather on Chenery. It will be the story of a typical American housewife who “finds herself”, leaving her old life behind as her new career supplants her family and marriage. Secretariat and Meadow Farm will be merely the catalysts for the story, rather than the story itself. If the catalyst was Chenery opening a restaurant, or running for political office, the story could remain otherwise almost unchanged. In other words, Secretariat might be a good movie, but it won’t be a Secretariat movie.

*Sigh*. I’ve always thought that the ideal Secretariat bio-pic would focus on the Triple Crown. Those three races, with perhaps the Wood Memorial as a prologue, would form a great story arc. In many ways it would parallel Homer’s Iliad, with Secretariat and Sham playing the roles of Achilles and Hector, respectively, and their human connections as the supporting cast, rather than the centre of the story. In this context, the 1973 Belmont would be equivalent to Achilles dragging Hector’s body around the walls of Troy.

I hope I’m wrong — I will still look forward to seeing the movie when it comes out — but I refuse to have high expectations.

If that ain't bitching, what is?

[46zilzal]

Well, I don't know. I spent much of my adult life being paid to read, and if what I read in the following isn't bitching about the movie being about Chenery rather than Secretariat, I guess I oughta pay back a few decades worth of wages:



If that ain't bitching, what is?
I know the author of those passages and disappointment will not now or ever be bitching as you characterize.....It is NOT in that man's DNA.

[reckless]

If one is dazzled by speed records, I don't think any horse of the last century holds a candle to Swaps... even the great Secretariat. Swaps probably never got his due because he was owned not by one of the breeding elite, but by a hick cowboy - or so they said.

Check this out;

at 3:

* 1st - San Vicente Stakes
* 1st - Santa Anita Derby
* 1st - Kentucky Derby (front-running effort with a time of 2:01 4/5, 2/5 off the track record;
* 1st - Will Rogers Stakes (by 12 lengths; first race in which Swaps was the betting favorite; favored in all subsequent races)
* 1st - Californian Stakes (new world record for 8 1/2 furlongs with time of 1:40 2/5, "almost casually")
* 1st - Westerner Stakes (front-running effort, "drew out at will" in the stretch to open a 10-length lead, won by 6 lengths after being eased at odds of 1-20; win betting only for a five-horse field)
* 1st - American Derby on turf (front-running effort "under restraint"; new course record, equalled American record; win and place betting only for a six-horse field)
* 2nd - Match race with Nashua

at 4:

* 1st - LA County Fair Handicap (came from behind and drew away "under wraps")
* 1st - Broward Handicap (new world record for 1 mile 70 yd with time of 1:39 3/5, carrying 130 lb., conceding at least 15 pounds to all rivals; had "mouth open" due to snug hold early and was eased late)
* 2nd - Californian (jockey Shoemaker "shut down" Swaps with less than 1/16 mile to go and a 4 length lead. Porterhouse got up for the surprise win)
* 1st - Argonaut Handicap (new world record for 1 mile with time of 1:33 1/5, replacing former record by Citation)
* 1st - Inglewood (new World record for 8 1/2 furlongs with time of 1:39 flat, carrying 130 lb.; mile split was 1:32 3/5, 3/5 faster than his own world record)
* 1st - American Handicap (equalled Noor's world record of 1:46 4/5 for 1 1/8 miles, carrying 130 lb.; conceded 19 lb. to runner-up Mister Gus; win betting only for a five-horse field)
* 1st - Hollywood Gold Cup Stakes (new track record of 1:58 3/5 for 1 1/4 miles, lowering previous mark by a full second, carrying 130 lb.; win betting only despite a seven-horse field)
* 1st - Sunset Handicap (new track and world record for 1 5/8 miles with time of 2:38 1/5, lowering previous track record by 2 2/5 seconds, carrying 130 lb.; front-running effort "under stout restraint, eased in the last sixteenth of a mile)
* 7th - Arch Ward Memorial Handicap (well-beaten on a soft turf course apparently unsuitable to his sore condition)
* 1st - Washington Park Handicap (new track record of 1:33 2/5 for a mile carrying 130 lb.; six furlong split was 1:07 4/5, 2 full seconds faster than the track record)

Award winning journalist Morton Cathro wrote: "The ease with which he set those world records, going to the front and just saying goodbye, just more or less humbling his opponents—all of this despite fighting a recurring foot infection that never really went away entirely...look at the charts—in many of his races where he set world records, he was eased up. He was just so, so spectacular and so dominating."

hello Cadillakin:

For the record, I only posted my earlier post because I 'feared' it was going to evolve that Secretariat's record at Belmont Park was going to be dimished by the change in racing surface at Belmont when that historic meet opened in May 1973.

This is why I made mention of Secretariat's track records and near-records on turf and on the other venues.

I hung around many, many oldtime newspaper and horse racing guys when I worked for a major eastern racetrack in early 1980s and the numerous talks of the 'greatest' and 'fastest' always ended with just two horses on top: Secretariat and Swaps.

Swaps may well have been the most underrated horse of all time!!

A mentor of mine, one of the very first speed/pace handicappers ever, said that Swaps ran on a mostly even or dull racetracks, and set long-standing records, both track and world records that stood for many, many years.

He also told me he bet enough money on Swaps in the Derby to buy his townhome in the middle of Manhattan with the winnings. He said that the 'eastern' establishment was wrongly going ga-ga over local hero Nashua, and that Swaps was tons the better horse.

Why was this? Well today there is still and eastern bias, and in the 1950s especially, that bias was more pronounced? And why not? Well, racing in So. Calif. was non-existent in the summer and fall with most top Calif. stables setting up business in Chicago, at Marge Everitt's dad's place. That's how much little respect Calif. horses got then.

Another reason was also due to bias, the eastern snobbery against a tough, capable trainer named Rex Ellsworth. A few years later he had the Derby favorite and Preakness winner Candy Spots, a track record holder as well.

Ellsworth was a cowboy, as mentioned, and I heard countless stories of Ellsworth putting the saddle on Swaps and poneying him to the racing secretaries office. Legend had it that he did such a thing when he entered Swaps in the Derby; the horse was tied to a pole right outside the office.

Swaps is the one sports figure that I wished to have seen in person, even more so than heros like Lou Gehrig and Tami Mauriello and other greats in sports. That's how much I respected my mentor and loved Swaps.

Cadillakin, you were right on in mentioning Swaps.

[Sid]

OK, ZilZal, I didn't mean to offend your friend by my choice of verb.

Let us stipulate -- after first noting that, unlike what CincyHorseplayer said in trying to run Cadillakin out of the thread -- that the movie script is NOT about Secretariat. You say so in your one line in the first post of this thread when you describe it as a movie "about Penny Chenery."

Then let's say that your friend has a negative view of approaching the script from that direction. I do not know how anyone could read it elsewise.

Then let's say that although Penny Chenery certainly has a whole lot more to do with Secretariat than she has to do with Swaps, there ain't nothing wrong with a movie about a desert rat who goes on to great things, either. I'm not sure a screenwriter could get away with having myth and reality mix in desert fog, but hey, it's Hollywood.

And in a very real way, THAT is what the thread was about. To my reading anyway.

Carry on. Sorry for dropping in.

[RaceBookJoe]

hello Cadillakin:

For the record, I only posted my earlier post because I 'feared' it was going to evolve that Secretariat's record at Belmont Park was going to be dimished by the change in racing surface at Belmont when that historic meet opened in May 1973.

This is why I made mention of Secretariat's track records and near-records on turf and on the other venues.

I hung around many, many oldtime newspaper and horse racing guys when I worked for a major eastern racetrack in early 1980s and the numerous talks of the 'greatest' and 'fastest' always ended with just two horses on top: Secretariat and Swaps.

Swaps may well have been the most underrated horse of all time!!

A mentor of mine, one of the very first speed/pace handicappers ever, said that Swaps ran on a mostly even or dull racetracks, and set long-standing records, both track and world records that stood for many, many years.

He also told me he bet enough money on Swaps in the Derby to buy his townhome in the middle of Manhattan with the winnings. He said that the 'eastern' establishment was wrongly going ga-ga over local hero Nashua, and that Swaps was tons the better horse.

Why was this? Well today there is still and eastern bias, and in the 1950s especially, that bias was more pronounced? And why not? Well, racing in So. Calif. was non-existent in the summer and fall with most top Calif. stables setting up business in Chicago, at Marge Everitt's dad's place. That's how much little respect Calif. horses got then.

Another reason was also due to bias, the eastern snobbery against a tough, capable trainer named Rex Ellsworth. A few years later he had the Derby favorite and Preakness winner Candy Spots, a track record holder as well.

Ellsworth was a cowboy, as mentioned, and I heard countless stories of Ellsworth putting the saddle on Swaps and poneying him to the racing secretaries office. Legend had it that he did such a thing when he entered Swaps in the Derby; the horse was tied to a pole right outside the office.

Swaps is the one sports figure that I wished to have seen in person, even more so than heros like Lou Gehrig and Tami Mauriello and other greats in sports. That's how much I respected my mentor and loved Swaps.

Cadillakin, you were right on in mentioning Swaps.

Well, in context of the thread...YOU are wrong also. Maybe you should also mention that Mickey Rourke will be in Ironman 2 , something else that doesnt fit the thread. The thread is about a movie , revolving around Penny Chennery...who may have been known before Big Red but was definately made famous because of Secretariat....not Swaps, Man O War, and any other horse. rbj

[46zilzal]

Well, in context of the thread...YOU are wrong also. Maybe you should also mention that Mickey Rourke will be in Ironman 2 , something else that doesnt fit the thread. The thread is about a movie , revolving around Penny Chennery...who may have been known before Big Red but was definately made famous because of Secretariat....not Swaps, Man O War, and any other horse. rbj
SO? Conversations are extemporaneous and, being unscripted, they go in many directions, so what? Miss manners is not here to scold people.

[RaceBookJoe]

SO? Conversations are extemporaneous and, being unscripted, they go in many directions, so what? Miss manners is not here to scold people.

True...but the thread had no reason to include Swaps' world records. But since you mentioned directions.....the yankees are benching A-rod for 2 games. rbj

[tucker6]

His thunder? What do you think, I'm going to hurt his feelings? I responded to a posting about Secretariat's track records with a posting of my own about track records...

As noted, some were unaware of the greatness and the brilliant speed of Swaps.
I have never seen WR's set under wraps and under restraint. Show me video of one and I'll believe Swaps did so. That is not to say I do not believe you personally, just that eye witness accounts become romanticized over time.

[joanied]

Zil...I, for one, thank you for starting this thread...I was goning to start it myself...I've known for sometime that a movie about Secretariat was going to be made, so I appreciate that fact you posted the link and started the thread:ThmbUp:

Now...hey, you guys...this has turned into anything BUT a thread about a Secretariat movie...now it's a thread about arguing, disagreeing, track records, Swaps, track surfaces, name calling...everything but what it was supposed to be...AAARRRGGGHHH:bang:

Regardless as to whether or not the movie is going to center around Penny...it's a movie about Big Red...it's not going to be called Mrs. Tweedy & the Big Horse, or some such thing...it's going to be called 'Secretariat'.

It's a fact that some threads that begin with one thing as a subject, will turn into something else all together...but usually when that happens...it's all still relevant to the original subject...
sorry, but I cannot see how Swaps is remotely relevant to Secretariat...if the thread was meant to compare track records...then yes, but once again, and this seems to me to be a no brainer...
it's a thread about a movie:faint:

:)

[tucker6]

Zil...I, for one, thank you for starting this thread...I was goning to start it myself...I've known for sometime that a movie about Secretariat was going to be made, so I appreciate that fact you posted the link and started the thread:ThmbUp:

Now...hey, you guys...this has turned into anything BUT a thread about a Secretariat movie...now it's a thread about arguing, disagreeing, track records, Swaps, track surfaces, name calling...everything but what it was supposed to be...AAARRRGGGHHH:bang:

Regardless as to whether or not the movie is going to center around Penny...it's a movie about Big Red...it's not going to be called Mrs. Tweedy & the Big Horse, or some such thing...it's going to be called 'Secretariat'.

It's a fact that some threads that begin with one thing as a subject, will turn into something else all together...but usually when that happens...it's all still relevant to the original subject...
sorry, but I cannot see how Swaps is remotely relevant to Secretariat...if the thread was meant to compare track records...then yes, but once again, and this seems to me to be a no brainer...
it's a thread about a movie:faint:

:)
Aren't you hiking yet?? ;) :p

[CincyHorseplayer]

The girl loves horses and the girl makes the most sense on this thread.

You go Joanied:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

Cincy & Tucker....

Cincy...thanks:blush: Maybe now we can have a little fun with this and we can post who we think would be good actors to play the key roles:)
Off the top of my head...right now, I got nothin' :D

Tucker...be leaving in about 20 minutes...8,500 feet elevation...gorgeous scenery, and a wonderful way to spend a day:ThmbUp: Be thinkin' of you guys;)

[tucker6]

Cincy & Tucker....

Cincy...thanks:blush: Maybe now we can have a little fun with this and we can post who we think would be good actors to play the key roles:)
Off the top of my head...right now, I got nothin' :D

Tucker...be leaving in about 20 minutes...8,500 feet elevation...gorgeous scenery, and a wonderful way to spend a day:ThmbUp: Be thinkin' of you guys;)
good for you. We're having heavy rain at 64F. In late June. I wish I was there too.

[joanied]

Hey tucker,

Thanks...and ya know what....I got the elevation wrong :blush: ...9,500 feet...just about all the snow up there has melted, water everywhere and needless to say, this run off we're having is a whopper...all the rivers, even on the mountains, are over their banks...it was a gorgeous day and my 'back east' cousins had a blast:)

We've had a very cold and wet Spring here too...where's the global warming:confused: ...crops are doing Ok though...now we hope the rains have stopped, we've had enough. Mosquitoe hatch is gonna be a killer:mad:

[Sid]

I think Edmund Hillary Jr. should play Ron Turcotte.

[joanied]

I think Edmund Hillary Jr. should play Ron Turcotte.

:confused:

[Cadillakin]

:confused:
I think Sid was just making an effort to keep the thread on point. I mean, wasn't it you that agreed that the mentioning of Swaps in a Secretariat movie thread was out of bounds or at least, poorly mannered? One of our more low-class members even called me a turd for doing so... And I think you weighed in on his side.. Or was that somebody else using your nickname and avatar?

If you're unclear about what I mean, I think you can see a recap of your opinions right at the top of this very page...and the mention of me being a turd is a page before that...

So, Swaps doesn't belong in this thread about the Secretariat movie but your local weather, elevation reports, rivers, and discussions of your back-east cousins does.

You're consistent.. I'll say that for you...

[joanied]

I think Sid was just making an effort to keep the thread on point. I mean, wasn't it you that agreed that the mentioning of Swaps in a Secretariat movie thread was out of bounds or at least, poorly mannered? One of our more low-class members even called me a turd for doing so... And I think you weighed in on his side.. Or was that somebody else using your nickname and avatar?

If you're unclear about what I mean, I think you can see a recap of your opinions right at the top of this very page...and the mention of me being a turd is a page before that...

So, Swaps doesn't belong in this thread about the Secretariat movie but your local weather, elevation reports, rivers, and discussions of your back-east cousins does.

You're consistent.. I'll say that for you...

I'm not going to spend time looking up posts...and maybe me & tucker shouldn't have gone off on the elevation thing, back east cousins...but although that has nothin' to do with the Secretariat movie...at least it had nothin' to do with mentioning another horse in a thread about Secretariat's movie...all the guys here were tryin' to do was point out that it wasn't necessary to start mentioning the race records of other horses (Swaps) in this thread...get it...other HORSES. It's happened here before...one horse is brought up in a thread, and everyone goes off and mentions other horses...the guys just wanted this to be about Big Red...
Also, Cadillakin...I never, never called anyone, you or anyone here a name...you go look that up within this thread...you'll never see me call anyone here names, turd or otherwise...not ever!!!!

Your sarcasim towards me is not welcomed and not necessary....

[tucker6]

I'm not going to spend time looking up posts...and maybe me & tucker shouldn't have gone off on the elevation thing, back east cousins...but although that has nothin' to do with the Secretariat movie...at least it had nothin' to do with mentioning another horse in a thread about Secretariat's movie...all the guys here were tryin' to do was point out that it wasn't necessary to start mentioning the race records of other horses (Swaps) in this thread...get it...other HORSES. It's happened here before...one horse is brought up in a thread, and everyone goes off and mentions other horses...the guys just wanted this to be about Big Red...
Also, Cadillakin...I never, never called anyone, you or anyone here a name...you go look that up within this thread...you'll never see me call anyone here names, turd or otherwise...not ever!!!!

Your sarcasim towards me is not welcomed and not necessary....
Joanie,

Don't sweat him. He's just jealous that you climbed a beautiful mountain in Wyoming and that I'm enjoying a nice evening in Lima, Peru at the moment. Enjoy your night. :)

Tom

[joanied]

Joanie,

Don't sweat him. He's just jealous that you climbed a beautiful mountain in Wyoming and that I'm enjoying a nice evening in Lima, Peru at the moment. Enjoy your night. :)

Tom

Hey Tom, my man:) ...now I'm jealous :lol: ...Lima, Peru...talk about mountains...wow!!
Whatever you are doing, at this moment...enjoy!! Thanks for thinking of me:)

[tucker6]

Hey Tom, my man:) ...now I'm jealous :lol: ...Lima, Peru...talk about mountains...wow!!
Whatever you are doing, at this moment...enjoy!! Thanks for thinking of me:)
I was surprised when I got here. Lima has both mountains and ocean. I enjoyed lunch today on the cliffs overlooking the Pacific. What a view!! Still, I'm a nature guy and miss the outdoors. They have 9 million people in this city. Yuck. I've always dreamed of going to Jellystone (Yogi) and the Serengeti. So, I envy you more.

Amazing story from here. I travel a LOT. Been around the world many times. On the first day, I look out the hotel window and on a skyscraper in the distance, I notice they built a Spanish-style house on top of the building. A HOUSE!! The strangest thing I've ever seen. Even the locals think it's crazy. I'll post a pic someday of it.

Since this post is about my favorite horse, Secretariat, I think Peter Falk would have made a good Lucien. The mannerisms were similar. I think the woman who played Queen Elizabeth in the Diana movie could have played Penny.

Tom

[reckless]

With all this Travel-talk maybe Rick Steeves should play the part of Ron Turcotte in the Secretariat movie ( ??? )

[joanied]

"Since this post is about my favorite horse, Secretariat, I think Peter Falk would have made a good Lucien. The mannerisms were similar. I think the woman who played Queen Elizabeth in the Diana movie could have played Penny."

tucker6....
I didn't see the Diana movie...wonder who you are talking about? Peter Falk...a great character actor...he maybe could have pulled it off:) I'm thinking maybe the English actor that played Bilbo in the Lord of the Rings triolgy...can't recall his name, but the right age and size, he'd just need to change his accent:D

I would never have thought of Diane Lane as Penny, but she's such a good actress and no doubt will resemble Penny for the part...I read Glenn Close wanted the part...ugh...I don't care for her, also Wynona Rider wanted it...that would have been a stretch!
Maybe they'll get unknowns for the other key roles...I still can't come up with anyone for those parts...better get my thinkin' cap on:bang:
:)

[CincyHorseplayer]

How about Diane Keaton as she dressed in the Brady movies??It certainly would fit the times and that hairstyle with Penny;)

[joanied]

How about Diane Keaton as she dressed in the Brady movies??It certainly would fit the times and that hairstyle with Penny;)

Oh, she would have been a good choice, Cincy...but Penny's character is taken...anyway, Diane Lane is prettier, don't yopu think??:D
But who to play Turcotte, Lucien, Sweat, and maybe Charlie...I expect his character would have to be included...and what about Sham's connections...makes ya wonder if the producer or whoever it is that casts a movie is having as hard a time choosing the actors as we are;)

[joanied]

http://hovdeyblog.drf.com/hovdeyblog/ (scroll down the page to "Penny Lane")

This thread was started as something fun...and although the movie production hasn't actually started yet...even Jay H has jumped on the bandwagon...and in this blog he gives Penny Tweedy's take on her character in the movie...and he gives his ideas of what actors should play the other key rolls...which is something we thought might be fun to do...pick the actors we think would do a good job in this movie...
(below is a quote from the blog)

"Other than sending out a call for perfect chestnut Thoroughbreds, the people making the Secretariat movie have yet to announce other casting choices. This gives the rest of us a chance to weigh in. I’m touting Kevin Spacey as Lucien Laurin (they‘d need to give him a nose), Matt Damon as Ron Turcotte (you‘re welcome, Ron), and Terrence Howard as groom Eddie Sweat, the man who spent more time with Secretariat than all the rest put together."


I gotta see who Terrance Howard is...Spacey could pull it off, I think...I do not like Matt Damon...think he'd be awful as Turcotte...

[CincyHorseplayer]

http://hovdeyblog.drf.com/hovdeyblog/ (scroll down the page to "Penny Lane")

This thread was started as something fun...and although the movie production hasn't actually started yet...even Jay H has jumped on the bandwagon...and in this blog he gives Penny Tweedy's take on her character in the movie...and he gives his ideas of what actors should play the other key rolls...which is something we thought might be fun to do...pick the actors we think would do a good job in this movie...
(below is a quote from the blog)

"Other than sending out a call for perfect chestnut Thoroughbreds, the people making the Secretariat movie have yet to announce other casting choices. This gives the rest of us a chance to weigh in. I’m touting Kevin Spacey as Lucien Laurin (they‘d need to give him a nose), Matt Damon as Ron Turcotte (you‘re welcome, Ron), and Terrence Howard as groom Eddie Sweat, the man who spent more time with Secretariat than all the rest put together."


I gotta see who Terrance Howard is...Spacey could pull it off, I think...I do not like Matt Damon...think he'd be awful as Turcotte...

Joanied your casting calls are getting a little ridiculous babe;)These are dominantly ugly people were talking about and you want Diane Lane and Matt Damon in there!!Cast too big and too pretty and the movie will lose whatever nimble credibility it might have(and I say that because people are constantly reminding us of how much public hates the sport!).

My Chenery fantasy judging by the way she looked is to bake me a cake.Diane Lane she inspires wanting to burn a doobie and get busy in the backseat of a car.See??It's all about perception!!:D

[Greyfox]

I've noticed that 46Zil, who started this thread, has been missing in action
in this thread since the 19 th and on this message board since June 21.
I hope everything is okay for you Zilly.

[joanied]

Joanied your casting calls are getting a little ridiculous babe;)These are dominantly ugly people were talking about and you want Diane Lane and Matt Damon in there!!Cast too big and too pretty and the movie will lose whatever nimble credibility it might have(and I say that because people are constantly reminding us of how much public hates the sport!).

My Chenery fantasy judging by the way she looked is to bake me a cake.Diane Lane she inspires wanting to burn a doobie and get busy in the backseat of a car.See??It's all about perception!!:D

Cincy...they ain't MY casting calls...Diane Lane got the part as Penny...
did ya read Jay's blog piece? he's the one mentioned Matt Damon (who I do not think is attractive anyway) and the other 2 actors...not me...but, they will need one big name actor to help draw crowds to see the movie...it was brilliant that they got Jeff Bridges & what's his name:blush: to play the parts of owner & jockey in Seabiscuit...
all I'm doing is trying to keep this thread as fun as Zil meant it to be:) ....and be careful that doobie don't burn a hole in the backseat:D ;)

[joanied]

I've noticed that 46Zil, who started this thread, has been missing in action
in this thread since the 19 th and on this message board since June 21.
I hope everything is okay for you Zilly.

I noticed that also and was wondering about Zil...I also hope all is well...maybe on vacation or somethin'?

HEY ZIL... WE NEED YOU!

[CincyHorseplayer]

Cincy...they ain't MY casting calls...Diane Lane got the part as Penny...
did ya read Jay's blog piece? he's the one mentioned Matt Damon (who I do not think is attractive anyway) and the other 2 actors...not me...but, they will need one big name actor to help draw crowds to see the movie...it was brilliant that they got Jeff Bridges & what's his name:blush: to play the parts of owner & jockey in Seabiscuit...
all I'm doing is trying to keep this thread as fun as Zil meant it to be:) ....and be careful that doobie don't burn a hole in the backseat:D ;)

I wasn't bustin on ya girl don't worry!!

You're right about having at least one character of name drawing fans.It is an important point.

And when you mentioned Bridges I didn't think of Seabiscuit I thought of Simpatico which was a play on Broadway that was made a movie.It had Nick Nolte,Sharon Stone,Albert Finney,and Katherine Keener(the girl from "the 40 yr old virgin").Check it out.That was a good movie I thought but I'm biased,I like horse racing or movies which it is a motif,and the public at large despises my viewpoint!!:cool:

And hey if I ever get Diane Lane in the backseat that doobie is getting flicked out window:lol:

Anyway it's 5 oclock,lets watch some girlpower HAHAH,LOL!!!!:D

[joanied]

I wasn't bustin on ya girl don't worry!!

You're right about having at least one character of name drawing fans.It is an important point.

And when you mentioned Bridges I didn't think of Seabiscuit I thought of Simpatico which was a play on Broadway that was made a movie.It had Nick Nolte,Sharon Stone,Albert Finney,and Katherine Keener(the girl from "the 40 yr old virgin").Check it out.That was a good movie I thought but I'm biased,I like horse racing or movies which it is a motif,and the public at large despises my viewpoint!!:cool:

And hey if I ever get Diane Lane in the backseat that doobie is getting flicked out window:lol:

Anyway it's 5 oclock,lets watch some girlpower HAHAH,LOL!!!!:D

Hey Cincy...whew:faint:
I did see Simpatico...and I thought it was good...how can ya go wrong with a cast like that...set around racing:jump:
I'm like you...I'll watch just about any movie about horse racing...except maybe something like a movie about a racing Zebra:lol:

Oh...when you toss out that Doobie...be sure it's out first:eek: :D

Zil is still MIA :confused: