Churchill Downs

[iwearpurple]

Churchill Downs is trying night racing for the first time this Friday. While I think this gives people an opportunity to attend live racing that might not otherwise be able to, in their infinite wisdom Churchill Downs is charging more than triple the normal amount for general admission ($10.00, normal is $3.00).

This is not the way to get new people to attend this sport. Then they will try to compare attendance and handle figures to see if it is successful. That will be like comparing rotten apples to ripe oranges.

[Warren Henry]

Churchill Downs is trying night racing for the first time this Friday. While I think this gives people an opportunity to attend live racing that might not otherwise be able to, in their infinite wisdom Churchill Downs is charging more than triple the normal amount for general admission ($10.00, normal is $3.00).

This is not the way to get new people to attend this sport. Then they will try to compare attendance and handle figures to see if it is successful. That will be like comparing rotten apples to ripe oranges.
Their marketing folks must be on vacation or really dumb. Anyone with an ounce of marketing training knows that you must keep all of the variables as close to the same in order to get a valid measurement on the variable being tested.

[wisconsin]

I just saw where Arlington will be charging $10 on Father's Day, and I was thinking of going, but can anyone say "gouge"?

[dutzman]

Churchill drops the ball again. The worst way to get people to the racetrack = charge more money for admission. So, if I had a wife and 2 kids, I would be out $40 (more if I paid for a couple programs and parking) before I even made a bet!

[sandpit]

They will have a lot of people there because of the novelty of it, but even if you dress up a pig, it's still a pig. Despite all the red carpets, live entertainment, and ridiculously overpriced sit down dining options, etc.; the quality of racing is still a far cry from where it was five years ago. And you can bet that those who do attend aren't gonna be the big $$$ bettors. The per capita handle will be way down. Yet CDI will put a great spin on it in their press release. And why not? The crowd will be substantially bigger than the usual Friday twilight gathering. Best news might be for the horses, since it's supposed to be in the mid 90's and very humid in Louisville tomorrow.

[jballscalls]

no idea why they up'd the admission charge. maybe they will spin it like "hey it's only 3 bucks to get in on the other days" LOL

the form says they estimate a crowd of 15 to 20 thousand people, I think that might be aggressive, but maybe not.

[Rapid Grey]

Churchill isn't exactly in the high rent district of Louisville, and $10 will keep a lot of the riff raff out. I would imagine a lot of the extra admission charge will go to cover additional security, parking lot attendants, etc. as well.

[Citation1947]

Damn it! Im gonna miss it. I will be there Saturday and Sunday, but not Friday. I always seem to miss these historical events by just this much! :bang:

[sandpit]

Historic was when Alysheba won the 1988 BC Classic in the dark. You couldn't hardly see the race until they crossed the wire under the glare of the photo finish lights...

[trigger]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"General admission for Friday’s historic debut of “Downs After Dark” is $10, although members of the track’s free customer rewards program, the Twin Spires Club, and seniors age 60 and up will continue to receive their bargain $1 admission price. Also, all season passes will be honored at admission gates.

General admission will drop to $6 for the next two nighttime cards on Friday, June 26 and Thursday, July 2 (the start of a long holiday weekend that doubles as closing weekend for the Spring Meet). A discounted general admission pass for entrance on all three nights is available for $15 (a $7 savings).
For Friday’s “Downs After Dark” premiere, customers also can purchase a special $15 package that includes general admission, a box seat in the third-floor clubhouse and an official program.

Fans can reserve seats or purchase dining packages by calling (502) 636-4400. For more information, log onto www.churchilldowns.com (http://www.churchilldowns.com).

Parking for “Downs After Dark” is free in the Longfield Avenue lot, with on-site parking available on a first-come, first-served basis. Valet parking will be available. Churchill Downs also will offer free parking at Papa John’s Cardinal Stadium starting at 4 p.m. and will run free round-trip shuttle service throughout the evening (drop off will be at Gate 17 and pick up will be at Gate 1).

According to the National Weather Service, Friday’s Louisville forecast calls for mostly cloudy skies and a high near 93 degrees with a low around 69. There’s a 30-percent chance of showers and thunderstorms mainly after 2 p.m. (a tenth to a quarter of an inch possible) with an 8-11 mph south wind."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.churchilldowns.com/news/archives/debut-historic-downs-after-dark-night-racing-set-friday-premiere-6-pm-et

[kid4rilla]

I estimate 30,000 attendance. It will be a huge success, but the novelty will wear off sooner or later. Great idea spreading it out so it doesn't become old hat too quickly.

Slots right around the corner will bolster attendance, if not handle, too.

Jai Alai is coming next.....always bet the fat guy, right?

[Bruddah]

I think a better option for a family on Friday nite would be a nice dinner and movie. McDonald's maybe, if your children are young and you need to be budget conscience. By the time you pay those absorbitant track entry fees, buy something to eat, and chase the kids ,who are running after the "pretty ponies". You would be less stressed out and money ahead. :lol:

[slew101]

I agree 100 percent. What they are saying is "we're going to get more people, so let's up the admission rates." For big-race days, I don't have a problem with it. Not for this.

Churchill Downs is trying night racing for the first time this Friday. While I think this gives people an opportunity to attend live racing that might not otherwise be able to, in their infinite wisdom Churchill Downs is charging more than triple the normal amount for general admission ($10.00, normal is $3.00).

This is not the way to get new people to attend this sport. Then they will try to compare attendance and handle figures to see if it is successful. That will be like comparing rotten apples to ripe oranges.

[jballscalls]

I think a better option for a family on Friday nite would be a nice dinner and movie. McDonald's maybe, if your children are young and you need to be budget conscience. By the time you pay those absorbitant track entry fees, buy something to eat, and chase the kids ,who are running after the "pretty ponies". You would be less stressed out and money ahead. :lol:

dinner and a movie, even if it was at mcdonalds would be more expensive.

movie tickets for the adults: $10 bucks each
movie tickets for the kids: $5 bucks each
dinner at mcdonalds for everyone: $5 bucks each

family of four to go to CD for the night: 40
family of four to movie and mcdonalds: 50

i figure concessions at each place are a wash, cause they are both overpriced.

plus you go to the track, you can get some of your admission cost back :)

[slew101]

Really? That's crazy. What's next, July 4th and Labor Day gouging?

I just saw where Arlington will be charging $10 on Father's Day, and I was thinking of going, but can anyone say "gouge"?

[Irish Boy]

Why not charge more on days where people want to go? $10 is not a ridiculous amount. Try paying that much to go to any other sporting event.

Attendence was about 30,000 as well. So it seems the ridiculous gouging didn't keep too many people away.

[toussaud]

we had this discussion in another thread and I told everyone, 10 freaking dollars ona friday night is not going to scare anyone away, but "oh noes, it's bad for racing!"


it's very simple math actually, even though you turn away the people who are cheap (who if they are like me, will just bet on their twinspires or xpressbet account anyway, just not show up at the actual track), by racing at friday night instead of freaking 11am when everyone is at work, you open up the market to a whole new demobgraphic... adults with regular jobs


I am not nostradamus or anything, but ever since I have started watching racing, I never did understand why there is not thursday / friday racing. horse racing is the only sport that goes out of it's way to not cater to it's demographic.

[kenwoodallpromos]

When they get slots, they can charge $10,000 admission and get rid of ALL the riff-raff (horseplayers), and just have respectable people (random wild gambling slots players) in their building. :cool:

[GlenninOhio]

Why not charge more on days where people want to go? $10 is not a ridiculous amount. Try paying that much to go to any other sporting event.

Attendence was about 30,000 as well. So it seems the ridiculous gouging didn't keep too many people away.

Um, so might this mean that it wasn't "ridiculous gouging" after all?

I think you guys on this board are the smartest and savviest bunch on all aspects of this game, and this is why as the owner of a modest racing stable I come here every day - to learn from you because there's no better place to learn online.

That said, so many of you hate the race tracks and hate the horsemen (see Tom's earlier comments on this thread). And this is why I rarely post - as I'm one of those greedy horsemen that he and others would like to see starve to death along with their greedy race track operating cohorts.

[rastajenk]

The level of animosity is amazing sometimes, isn't it? :confused:

[rrbauer]

From the article:
"Churchill officials acknowledge they didn't have enough staff or beer trailers to accommodate the 28,000 people who came to the track's first night racing event on June 19.

"No question about it, there were some mistakes we made (Friday) night," said Bill Carstanjen, chief operating officer of Churchill Downs Inc., in an interview at the track on Saturday, June 20. "We heard the message loud and clear. ... There are a bunch of hard lessons we had to learn."

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090620/NEWS01/906200357/1002/rss07

They knew in advance they were going to have a big night. Didn't they sell out over a week ago? If Churchill doesn't know how to staff for a big turnout, then who does? Cutting corners to save a few bucks in labor costs at the expense of their customers' comfort is typical racetrack behavior. What a faux pas, but it does showcase the managerial incompetence and it no doubt gave a lot of people reasons to not show up again.

[Tampa Russ]

Wait in line 40 minutes for a beer. But, there were no lines for wagering. Of course the majority of the crowd was there to party. The trick is getting them interested in wagering. If they can cut the beer wait times down to 5 minutes, it will help.

Also, if you just sign up for the silly card, you get in for a buck. I don't like the club cards, but I do have quite a collection as I'm a cheap bastard at heart.

[Irish Boy]

Um, so might this mean that it wasn't "ridiculous gouging" after all?

I think you guys on this board are the smartest and savviest bunch on all aspects of this game, and this is why as the owner of a modest racing stable I come here every day - to learn from you because there's no better place to learn online.

That said, so many of you hate the race tracks and hate the horsemen (see Tom's earlier comments on this thread). And this is why I rarely post - as I'm one of those greedy horsemen that he and others would like to see starve to death along with their greedy race track operating cohorts.

I was just paraphrasing other people. I agree that it wasn't ridiculous gouging or gouging of any sort. It was good business, and a very reasonable price.

[Cangamble]

I have to admit I was wrong about people snubbing Churchill because of the $10 admission price.
Woodbine has night racing on Wednesday, and it is their worst handle day.
I personally don't get the fascination for thoroughbred night racing and having to spend so much just to get in. I wonder if it is unique to the region.

[sandpit]

I was just paraphrasing other people. I agree that it wasn't ridiculous gouging or gouging of any sort. It was good business, and a very reasonable price.

Reasonable is a relative term. At Hollywood Park, admission for Friday night racing is $8, and beer, soft drinks and hot dogs cost $1. Compared to CD's $10 admission and $2 concessions, and I only do this because they are both trying to achieve the same goal, it seems like CD is overpriced. Or maybe Hollywood is underpriced, since everything in California is normally much higher there than in KY.
No matter what anybody thinks about CD in general, getting 28K in attendance instead of a normal Friday of about 7500 has to be considered a huge success. That being said, I'd love to see them release the total on track handle, which they will never do...

Saying they were sold out of reserved seats was a joke. The stands hold about 47,000...there were still plenty of unused boxes on the turn past the finish line, and nobody on the 3rd floor up past the 3/16 pole.

[thruncy]

Churchill Downs is trying night racing for the first time this Friday. While I think this gives people an opportunity to attend live racing that might not otherwise be able to, in their infinite wisdom Churchill Downs is charging more than triple the normal amount for general admission ($10.00, normal is $3.00).

This is not the way to get new people to attend this sport. Then they will try to compare attendance and handle figures to see if it is successful. That will be like comparing rotten apples to ripe oranges.Richard Duchissois had something to do with this. CDI's strategy now is to milk the live attendees with admissions and booze. Most serious horseplayers use ADWs or bet from casinos.

[dutzman]

Looks like Churchill is going to double their beer carts and concessions staff. They will also have beer guys walking around like you see at baseball games. And, from 4-8PM beer will be $1. I guess they are taking some steps.

But how do we get the people to wager? That is the million dollar question.

[thruncy]

Why not charge more on days where people want to go? $10 is not a ridiculous amount. Try paying that much to go to any other sporting event.

Attendence was about 30,000 as well. So it seems the ridiculous gouging didn't keep too many people away.You're probably from the Chicago area where the OTB surcharges (as in New York) are considered "normal." Yours truly, Angus Smoot (President, Steve Bartman Fan Club)

[Irish Boy]

I am from the Chicago area, but OTB surcharges and cost of attendance are two entirely different things. OTB surcharges are entirely unnecessary, and I refuse to place a bet in an OTB in Illinois. Maybe some people would argue that admission fees are unnecessary as well, but there's certainly a lot more upkeep that goes into running a facility than there is for running an OTB.

I think that just about anyone who wants to can place a bet from outside of the track and avoid the cost of admission. The people who go to the track are more likely to want to make a group event out of it, in the same way that people go to a baseball game with friends. The more demand for that product, the higher the price should be, and evidently $10 per person wasn't enough to keep too many people away.

I should also point out that, even if every person that came out because of the fact that it was night racing didn't place a single bet (which is entirely unrealistic), higher attendance is a good for the sport in and of itself, even apart from handle. I don't think that people who follow horseracing closely understand how negative the perception is of people who do by the public at large. If you tell the average person that you're going to the horse track on a Thursday afternoon or Friday night, they're going to regard you as a degenerate lowlife in a way that they won't if you tell them you're going to a baseball game or other event. The only way to change that perception is to have more people care about the sport, regardless of whether they bet or not. The more popular it becomes, the more acceptable it will become, and that will in time bring higher handles.

But instead, there's a certain breed of horseplayer that feels the need to bitch incessently about non-wagering fans, like they're taking up valuable space in the grandstands or something. Do you have any idea how depressing it is to bring someone who has never been to the track to Pimlico, or Hawthorne, or Thistledown on your average weekday (or even weekend?) Anyone who might have been even casually interested wold be absolutely scared away by the fact that there are about 500 people on the premisis, and those who are there look weird and smell funny. Make the sport more mainstream. Make it acceptable for a family to go and place $2 wagers all day. Fill the stands. Handle will follow perception.

[PaceAdvantage]

Harness racing has been doing it at night since forever...big whoop...nobody turns out for harness racing anymore...night/day has nothing to do with it...

The reason CD got a huge turnout was for the uniqueness factor...to say "I was there the first night they raced at CD."

As time goes on, attendance will undoubtedly revert back to the mean...

[LottaKash]

Harness racing has been doing it at night since forever...big whoop...nobody turns out for harness racing anymore...night/day has nothing to do with it...

The reason CD got a huge turnout was for the uniqueness factor...to say "I was there the first night they raced at CD."

As time goes on, attendance will undoubtedly revert back to the mean...

;)

best,

[rastajenk]

Harness racing has been doing it at night since forever...big whoop...nobody turns out for harness racing anymore...night/day has nothing to do with it... I tend to agree with this. Not exactly related, but obliquely so, is the fact that midweek afternoon baseball games are as well attended as night games...at least here in Redsland; undeniably so in Cubsvile. So it's not really an availability or convenience issue that keeps people away from tracks. There are dozens of other issues just as important.

[rrbauer]

Harness racing has been doing it at night since forever...big whoop...nobody turns out for harness racing anymore...night/day has nothing to do with it...

The reason CD got a huge turnout was for the uniqueness factor...to say "I was there the first night they raced at CD."

As time goes on, attendance will undoubtedly revert back to the mean...

I think that their model for even giving it a try was Hollywood Park. Hollywood's Friday night attendance has held up over time and that venue has become a "happening" in an evnironment that is very competitive when it comes to night "happening's". Most people agree that the makeup of the Friday's attendees is younger and more hip than the old farts (like me) who usually frequent the track. I agree that there will be some novelty attached to this year's Churchill nights, but if managed properly and not positioned against "big draw" venues there is a niche there.

Here's the rub: How much did the prospect of slots at the track have to do with trying the Friday night racing thing?

[miesque]

I think that their model for even giving it a try was Hollywood Park. Hollywood's Friday night attendance has held up over time and that venue has become a "happening" in an evnironment that is very competitive when it comes to night "happening's". Most people agree that the makeup of the Friday's attendees is younger and more hip than the old farts (like me) who usually frequent the track. I agree that there will be some novelty attached to this year's Churchill nights, but if managed properly and not positioned against "big draw" venues there is a niche there.

Here's the rub: How much did the prospect of slots at the track have to do with trying the Friday night racing thing?

I agree that the success of Hollywood Park's Friday nights at least in part prompted Churchill to try this experiment. There is a marked difference in energy, atmosphere and average age from Friday night raceng to Saturday afternoon racing at Hollywood Park, which is why I recommend going those back to back days if you have never been to HP. I hate to use such an cheesy pun but, the difference between those two days is like night and day. :D

[thruncy]

Harness racing has been doing it at night since forever...big whoop...nobody turns out for harness racing anymore...night/day has nothing to do with it...

The reason CD got a huge turnout was for the uniqueness factor...to say "I was there the first night they raced at CD."

As time goes on, attendance will undoubtedly revert back to the mean...In Chicago...last 10 years or so...almost empty every night despite giveaways, promotions & deals on food & alcohol.