Obama's Policies Paying Off In Iran

[The Judge]

Yes the guy with no foreign policy experience is on the verge of doing what the Republicans couldn't do, get a moderate in the top office. Let's here for Obama and his foreign policy. All it took was to tone down the rhetoric something the Republicans couldn't figure out or was unwilling to do.

Here is part of the Article.

AP
Both sides claim victory in Iran election before polls close
at AP – 3 mins ago
TEHRAN, Iran – Iranians packed polling stations from boutique-lined streets in north Tehran to conservative bastions in the countryside Friday with a choice that's left the nation divided and on edge: keeping hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in power or electing a reformist who favors greater freedoms and improved ties with the United States.

[46zilzal]

I have several friends recently arrived from Iran, and as much as I would like to tell you that a more moderate foreign policy from the US is at the heart of what is happening there, I would not be relating what they tell me. They have a large portion of the population below 30, women's rights have been a big campaign push for many years, and these same groups are sick and tired of being isolated from the rest of the world.

While having the current president may have helped, this push was in motion a long time back.

[ArlJim78]

this is a joke right?
the so-called "reformist" that you refer to was prime minister of Iran during the Reagan administration, and was one of four people chosen by the Islamic supreme leader to run for president.

[newtothegame]

So, let me get this straight.....Obama and his policies are "helping" to get a reformist into office in IRAN???? Well if thats true, couldnt the reverse be said??? That Iran helped to get Obama elected??? that would be a scary path to go down judge.....

[ArlJim78]

you may want to keep that reformist victory champagne on ice for awhile.


"With polls closed and about 20 percent of ballots counted, Election Commission Chief Kamran Daneshjoo said Ahmadinejad was ahead with just over 69 percent of the vote.
Daneshjoo said Ahmadinejad's chief rival, reformist candidate Mir Hossain Moussavi, had 28 percent."

[The Judge]

if would have been difficult to any one on any age to jump ship. Did enough jump this time maybe not yet but with a new tone maybe next time.

[ArlJim78]

there will be change some day in Iran, it may take some time. the only question is how peaceful will their revolution be? as the young people there grow up, there will come a time when they refuse to live under the thumb of the clerics.

FYI, whatever they do has little to do with American president. they have their own issues.

[Marshall Bennett]

Radical youth threw the Shah under the bus in favor of the current cesspool they're living in , sent the country back a hundred years . It will ultimately be that radical youth of another generation to right the ship . I have about as much faith in their election system as I do the bastards in charge of it . Its such a shame a country with such wealth and potential , is being managed by the worst form of human crap ever to walk the earth . Anything short of another revolution is a waste of time and energy , including Obama's in getting involved .

[Lefty]

judge, hate to tellya, But the Ayatolahcalls the shots in Iran.

[Tom]

This is without doubt the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. :lol:

[The Judge]

calls the shots so what does that mean? If the Ayatollahs are calling the shots and thats the beginning and the end of it why are they having elections at all.
Why don't the Ayatollah's just say we are running things elections are a distraction so "no elections".

Why are expatriates of Iran bothering to cast votes when they are in the United States safe from the Ayatollahs? They must think its a very important vote.

You may not think its a big deal but the Iranians do and thats whats important.

[dutchboy]

Since they have declared Ahmadinejad the winner does that mean that Hussein Obama's foreign policy is a failure?

Yes the guy with no foreign policy experience is on the verge of doing what the Republicans couldn't do, get a moderate in the top office. Let's here for Obama and his foreign policy. All it took was to tone down the rhetoric something the Republicans couldn't figure out or was unwilling to do.

Here is part of the Article.

AP
Both sides claim victory in Iran election before polls close
at AP – 3 mins ago
TEHRAN, Iran – Iranians packed polling stations from boutique-lined streets in north Tehran to conservative bastions in the countryside Friday with a choice that's left the nation divided and on edge: keeping hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in power or electing a reformist who favors greater freedoms and improved ties with the United States.

[Warren Henry]

Since they have declared Ahmadinejad the winner does that mean that Hussein Obama's foreign policy is a failure?
And since Ahmadinejad is declared winner in a landslide, that mean's Obama's foreign policy is a HUGE failure.

[boxcar]

Since they have declared Ahmadinejad the winner does that mean that Hussein Obama's foreign policy is a failure?

What!? Of course not! To the libs it means his BO's foreign policy is a smashing success -- going will beyond merely "paying off".

Boxcar

[Lefty]

judge, they have elections for show, just like N Korea. The big guy will decide if they nuke Israel and us. HE is the power. The Ayatolah.

[boxcar]

calls the shots so what does that mean? If the Ayatollahs are calling the shots and thats the beginning and the end of it why are they having elections at all.
Why don't the Ayatollah's just say we are running things elections are a distraction so "no elections".

Shirley U. Jest. Are you that naive!? These elections are held for appearances' sake in the "world community" -- to show the outside world that WhackJobs within Iran believe in freedom too.

Another reason they're held is the NutJobs hope to placate the growing restlessness among the masses who really do want to taste true freedom. By holding these kinds of mock elections -- elections with predetermined outcomes -- they send a message to those that yearn for freedom that they are in a minority -- that the vast majority of the people really do love oppression, rule by dictatorship, etc.

Why are expatriates of Iran bothering to cast votes when they are in the United States safe from the Ayatollahs? They must think its a very important vote.

You mean they don't have absentee ballots in Iran? :eek:

You may not think its a big deal but the Iranians do and thats whats important.

Right now there's more than a few Iranians who know the whole thing was rigged and they ain't none too happy about it. But I have a solution to that:
The messiah should jet himself over there to give a speech to the masses, extolling the virtues of Communism.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Reaction to Obama's speech to the Muslim world.....

[Greyfox]

http://nt1.ggpht.com/news/tbn/mWgUVX5D86YAWM/6.jpg (http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2009/jun/09/iranian-presidential-election-candidates)


Judge it looks like you gave Ahmadinejad a premature ejaculation...ejection.

[boxcar]

http://nt1.ggpht.com/news/tbn/mWgUVX5D86YAWM/6.jpg (http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2009/jun/09/iranian-presidential-election-candidates)


Judge it looks like you gave Ahmadinejad a premature ejaculation...ejection.

What's really, really funny about this is that the outcome was a fait accompli before the first "ballot" was cast. Only desperate dimwits, who are in dire need of something positive to say about their beloved messiah, would think otherwise.

Boxcar

[Marshall Bennett]

There were so many irregularities in this election how could anyone take it seriously ?

[The Judge]

You figured out that its all about appearances all by yourself ? If thats the case why did 85% of the people who could vote turn out ot vote if its all about appearances they can't figure that out also?

Lets not forget the right on this board painted all Arabs with the same brush. Not to mention the Iranian people as "nutjobs" , all the same. Now that they show you that they are not all the same it's all for "appearances".

If thats the case why fight it, why clash with the police risking jail or death if it was all for show. Why have the Show if the world is going to see the people in Iran fighting the authorites how does that help the Ayatollah's?

No it's not me that doen't understand it's you, they have to have elections with an 85% turn out rate ,if they weren't forced to have them by the Iranian people there wouldn't be any elections.

[ArlJim78]

big election protest (Tea Party anyone?) in Iran.

nifgnonH-BU

[dutchboy]

This may be a picture of the Acorn community organizers shipped in from Chicago enjoying the victory picnic in Tehran.

[Boris]

Can't understand how anyone could not consider this legit.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2009/06/irans_voting_manipulation_indu.html

According to official statistics, the illiteracy rate in Iran is more than 20 percent. Voters are required to write the name of their preferred candidate on the ballot; there are no pictorial symbols, and voters are not allowed to make an "X" to indicate their choice. Since many people are unable to write, the government allows volunteers, mostly affiliated with the Basij, to be inside polling stations to help voters write the name of their preferred candidate. Obviously, these Basij volunteers can easily write in any name they wish.

:lol:

[The Judge]

if thats what you are looking for you don't have to go all the way to Iran all you have to do is look right here in the good old USA. You do rememeber the last two BUSH elections don't you.

What about Pat Buchanan getting all those Jewish votes in democratic strong holds. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/palmbeach.recount/
This is just one of the numerous election failures right here.

So any country looking for a model to pattern their elections after would pass on both the United States and Iran.

Look at the post by ArlJim78 I am sure that the Ayatollah's scripted this protest all for show. The Ayatollah's control 'EVERYTHING" sure they do.

Go OBAMA go protesters in Iran for demorcracy and he just took office and all he did was change the rethoric what a statesman.

[boxcar]

You figured out that its all about appearances all by yourself ? If thats the case why did 85% of the people who could vote turn out ot vote if its all about appearances they can't figure that out also?

Why do you marvel at this? About 50% of the American population can't figure out the Nanny State is all about power and money.

Besides the above...the dictators in Iran are no different than the Deceivers in our own government. Both throw bones to the masses -- to help keep them under control. If Iran didn't hold these phony elections on a regular basis, they would have to control the population with the use of a lot more violence than they do currently.

Further, how else could the dictators instill into their society's psyche that only a small minority are really in favor of free democratic society? This is the government's way of trying to create peer pressure tactics.

Lets not forget the right on this board painted all Arabs with the same brush. Not to mention the Iranian people as "nutjobs" , all the same. Now that they show you that they are not all the same it's all for "appearances".

The majority of Arab governments are the same. The Persians (Iranians) are no different than most of the Muslim regimes around the world. Of course, it's all appearance.

If thats the case why fight it, why clash with the police risking jail or death if it was all for show. Why have the Show if the world is going to see the people in Iran fighting the authorites how does that help the Ayatollah's?

Were you born this slow! Man, are you naive -- beyond imagination! You cannot figure this stuff out on your own? It's no wonder at all you're a socialist! Again, those clashing with the police will be portrayed as the small but vocal extremist MINORITY -- completely out of touch with the "mainstream" in their society -- "extremists" who really don't reflect the mainstream's values, as evidenced by the election's outcome. Get it now!? :bang: :bang: In other words -- it's all smoke and mirrors, designed to deceive the world generally and the Iranian population, even more specifically.

No it's not me that doen't understand it's you, they have to have elections with an 85% turn out rate ,if they weren't forced to have them by the Iranian people there wouldn't be any elections.

The next thing you'll be telling us is that the Iranians are a free society. :bang: You are totally without a clue! I hope you at least have a flashlight clenched tightly in your teeth so you can find your way around within those bodily cavities wherein the sun never reaches. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Can't understand how anyone could not consider this legit.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2009/06/irans_voting_manipulation_indu.html



:lol:

What!!!!??? You're telling us that election was rigged!? Tell it to the Judge. :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[Marshall Bennett]

if thats what you are looking for you don't have to go all the way to Iran all you have to do is look right here in the good old USA. You do rememeber the last two BUSH elections don't you.


The last two Bush elections ? Although neither could ever compare to that in Iran ( if you beleive that you're delusional ) I fail to see anything unordinary about the 04 election . You're simply pissed as all liberals are that Bush won either election . As for the 2000 election , Gore accepted defeat and moved on , as all you other crybaby libs should .

[ArlJim78]

Go OBAMA go protesters in Iran for demorcracy and he just took office and all he did was change the rethoric what a statesman.

congrats! you are the very first Obamaton that has ever assigned responsibilty for anything to Obama. Until now all responsibility (blame) has gone to Bush.
Its a small first step, but nonetheless an important one, because from now on we won't have to hear about Bush being to blame for everything.

only one tiny issue, while Obama has caused hundreds of thousands to march in the streets, that was here in the US, not Iran.

Amhadinajads unpopularity and the anger you're seeing on the streets of Iran has nothing to do with Obama or Bush. he has been unpopular for a long time, even before Obamas little speech.

it has more to do with oppression, public hangings of homosexuals, censorship, dress codes, unwarranted arrests, living under centuries old theocratic rules and Amhadinjhads embarrassing anti-semetic rants all around the world.

the entire world does not hang on the words of any US president. this is also not the first time there have been massive protests of election fraud over there.

[The Judge]

was the protest in. The only large scale protest that I could find is in Iran

http://www.examiner.com/x-12370-Chicago-Foreign-Policy-Examiner~y2009m6d13-The-morningafter-Irans-reformists-protest-as-Ahmadinejad-is-declared-presidentelect

[The Judge]

Elections closely examined for signs of "Obama Effect" see they even have a name for it. Keep howling and the moon and foaming at the mouth as the world passes you by.

Protesters are in the street of Tehran risking their very lives and you guys say its a put up job by the Ayatollahs. How totally unreasonable, hatred of Obama has clouded you guys otherwise impeccable judgement.

[The Judge]

the elections in America aren't as bad as the elections in Iran. What a sad statement, how could anyone find fault in the 2004 election. 50% aint bad it is when electing the leader of the free world.

[Tom]

Then you must tip your hat to Bush for two even MORE dangerous elections he paved the way for in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those people walked through war zones to vote. What a terrific thing Bush did for them. While Obama was here denouncing the actions. We got a name for that, too.....traitor.

[Marshall Bennett]

the elections in America aren't as bad as the elections in Iran. What a sad statement, how could anyone find fault in the 2004 election. 50% aint bad it is when electing the leader of the free world.
Well if you want to go back in history and toss out every president that didn't win an election by a landslide , go ahead , and at the same time change the laws that govern our voting system . If you only won't to toss out those that didn't win by a landslide that you didn't like , thats more personel , and I suggest you move to a place with a more suitable system to your liking . Try Iran . Join in with all those protesters there you seem so sympathetic towards .

[Warren Henry]

Protesters are in the street of Tehran risking their very lives and you guys say its a put up job by the Ayatollahs. How totally unreasonable, hatred of Obama has clouded you guys otherwise impeccable judgement.

The protests are not the put up job. The protesters are sincere. They think (rightly so IMO) that they got the shaft.

The sham was the Ayatollahs putting on a rigged election to make the populace think they had a voice. They will put down any riot forcefully and then trumpet that the rioters were a delusional minority. They hope that the majority of the population will settle back down and everything will go on as before.

The election in Iran was about the same as the elections we have in my household where my wife and I both get to vote, but her vote is the only one that counts.

And, obtw, most of us don't hate Obama. We hate his ideas and goals.

[The Judge]

If sham elections are going to cause riots in the street why have any elections at all. If you were an Ayatollah calling the shots, why allow any election. If its a sham election who does it fool? If people see the average citizen taking to the street protesting a sham election how does that help those in power.

Why have a real opponent who people would protest for why not a puppet, if everything is being orchestrated.

Go Obama go the Obama effect real elections in Iran.

Bush paved the way for election Iraq and Afghanistan gee I though it was all those guys with rifles in uniforms from about 10 different countries. Glad to hear it was a speech Bush gave same as Obama

Go Obama Go.

[Marshall Bennett]

If sham elections are going to cause riots in the street why have any elections at all. If you were an Ayatollah calling the shots, why allow any election. If its a sham election who does it fool? If people see the average citizen taking to the street protesting a sham election how does that help those in power.

Why have a real opponent who people would protest for why not a puppet, if everything is being orchestrated.

Go Obama go the Obama effect real elections in Iran.

Bush paved the way for election Iraq and Afghanistan gee I though it was all those guys with rifles in uniforms from about 10 different countries. Glad to hear it was a speech Bush gave same as Obama

Go Obama Go.
As if the current Iranian govt. gives a shit . They'd just as soon shoot down every protester that raises a hand . They hate your guts don't you get that ? They hate all Americans . I detect a tone of sarcasm in your post anyway Judge , besides , no one can be that stupid .

[Lefty]

judge you jumped on a bad theory and won't admit it. If you think Obama is so great, just wait. He runs down america every chance he gets. He preaches fiscal responsibily after he has spent all the money. Judge he said Govt is the answer. Do you really blve that? If you do, then I guess you're okay with Obama kicking the founding fathers to the curb, and turning our Capitalist Country into a Socialist One. i'm not.

[Marshall Bennett]

judge you jumped on a bad theory and won't admit it. If you think Obama is so great, just wait. He runs down america every chance he gets. He preaches fiscal responsibily after he has spent all the money. Judge he said Govt is the answer. Do you really blve that? If you do, then I guess you're okay with Obama kicking the founding fathers to the curb, and turning our Capitalist Country into a Socialist One. i'm not.
He's not only okay with it he'd be the first to leap off the curb and pile on . :)

[The Judge]

that my bad theory is mimic in the San Francisco Chronicle today 6/13/09 by Matthew B. Stannard. Front page "Election closely examined for signs of "OBAMA EFFECT"

"ANALYSTS suggested that President Obama rhetoric of extending an open hand to old rivals, culminating in his widely watched speech to the Islamic world from Egypt on June 4, may have PUSHED reform-minded voters to the polls in Iran."
A similar claim was mad after Lebanon's recent election, which was seen by some analysts as a repudiation of Iran's proxy Hezbollah.

So on my side Matthew B. Stanndard and Analysts all independent on the right side of the board the same familiar names.

I'm telling you guys history is passing you up. Better jump on this Obama band wagon while there is still room don't let Arlen Specter have all the fun.

[Lefty]

If obama was so influential, how come the bad guy won. Obama didn't do a damn thing, but talk his b.s.

[cj's dad]

please start dropping nuclear weapons on these backward countries and put an end to this total bull---t !!

Please allow them to meet Allah ASAP

[BenDiesel26]

Is 52% any better when electing the leader of the free world?

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm telling you guys history is passing you up. Better jump on this Obama band wagon while there is still room don't let Arlen Specter have all the fun.Is that all you have left? Why bother....

[Tom]

I think the Judge has caught the Obama Effect!

[newtothegame]

I know your mind is set in stone...but you might want to read the following...........

Fissures emerge in Khamenei’s hold on power

Iran’s iron cleric unlikely to be at risk, but election furor causes him to blink


News Analysis
By Neil MacFarquhar
http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/nyt_logo_140x252.gif (http://www.nytimes.com/index.html?partner=msnbcpolitics)
updated 2 hours, 34 minutes ago

For two decades, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has remained a shadowy presence at the pinnacle of power in Iran, sparing in his public appearances and comments. Through his control of the military, the judiciary and all public broadcasts, the supreme leader controlled the levers he needed to maintain an iron if discreet grip on the Islamic republic.

But in a rare break from a long history of cautious moves, he rushed to bless President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for winning the election, calling on Iranians to line up behind the incumbent even before the standard three days required to certify the results had passed.

Then angry crowds swelled in cities around Iran, and he backpedaled, announcing Monday that the 12-member Council of Guardians, which vets elections and new laws, would investigate the vote.

more at the link......www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31381129/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31381129/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/)



Also notice further down where it says...."It is simply a faux investigation to quell the protest"....

[newtothegame]

I know your mind is set in stone...but you might want to read the following...........

Fissures emerge in Khamenei’s hold on power

Iran’s iron cleric unlikely to be at risk, but election furor causes him to blink


News Analysis
By Neil MacFarquhar
http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/nyt_logo_140x252.gif (http://www.nytimes.com/index.html?partner=msnbcpolitics)
updated 2 hours, 34 minutes ago

For two decades, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has remained a shadowy presence at the pinnacle of power in Iran, sparing in his public appearances and comments. Through his control of the military, the judiciary and all public broadcasts, the supreme leader controlled the levers he needed to maintain an iron if discreet grip on the Islamic republic.

But in a rare break from a long history of cautious moves, he rushed to bless President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for winning the election, calling on Iranians to line up behind the incumbent even before the standard three days required to certify the results had passed.

Then angry crowds swelled in cities around Iran, and he backpedaled, announcing Monday that the 12-member Council of Guardians, which vets elections and new laws, would investigate the vote.

more at the link......www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31381129/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31381129/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/)



Also notice further down where it says...."It is simply a faux investigation to quell the protest"....


Now I know this probably wont help much...but this is what everyone was speaking about.....ITS ALL FOR SHOW for the rest of the world!

[The Judge]

is set in stone but let me say it again; of course there is upheaval what did you expect a peaceful turn over of power in Iran? A full and fair election followed by a full and fair vote re-count. What planet are you ON. The article supports what I have been saying ,there has been a weakening of the powers of the old guard in Iran since OBAMA has come on the scene. SIMPLE

" No foreign experience" well I guess you don't need any because the man has just set off a revolution in an Islamic state. What do you think now ,want to send a missile over now, right wingers. WHAT? NO !!! why because the people are uprising? GO OBAMA GO!!!

Whats important is being played out by the PEOPLE of Iran not by the so called movers and shakers of Iran. They are in the streets by the 100,000 of thousand and on rooftops and night calling out the same as before the overthrow of the Shah of Iran.

A few short days ago you didn't believe this would be possible now history is taking place right before your eyes. Nuclear weapons ha,those same people are now trying to stay in office. A few short months ago all they had to do was point west and say "the United States" and the old regime would be swept back into power by the vote.

They look over here now and see OBAMA who has an opened hand not a stick and they start a REVOLUTION ala 1775.

GO OBAMA GO

[newtothegame]

is set in stone but let me say it again; of course there is upheaval what did you expect a peaceful turn over of power in Iran? A full and fair election followed by a full and fair vote re-count. What planet are you ON. The article supports what I have been saying ,there has been a weakening of the powers of the old guard in Iran since OBAMA has come on the scene. SIMPLE

" No foreign experience" well I guess you don't need any because the man has just set off a revolution in an Islamic state. What do you think now ,want to send a missile over now, right wingers. WHAT? NO !!! why because the people are uprising? GO OBAMA GO!!!

Whats important is being played out by the PEOPLE of Iran not by the so called movers and shakers of Iran. They are in the streets by the 100,000 of thousand and on rooftops and night calling out the same as before the overthrow of the Shah of Iran.

A few short days ago you didn't believe this would be possible now history is taking place right before your eyes. Nuclear weapons ha,those same people are now trying to stay in office. A few short months ago all they had to do was point west and say "the United States" and the old regime would be swept back into power by the vote.

They look over here now and see OBAMA who has an opened hand not a stick and they start a REVOLUTION ala 1775.

GO OBAMA GO

your right about one thing...my mind is "set in stone" because I understand reality. You sir, on the other hand can't even keep your words straight from one sentence to the next. just look at what i highlighted for you. So I ask, did Obama cause the revolution in Iran now as you are implying, or has that revolution been set in place for a LONG time as your second bold statement would imply? Or is it the sentence where you say " it is being played out by the PEOPLE of iran not the movers and shakers" or is it Obama's wishes and the people are just puppets to his wishes?
And I don't recall any of those protesters carrying Obama signs? Or was that just on your news network?

And you only have to ask yourself one last question......When this election is over (as if it isnt already :lol: apparently, you didnt read the ENTIRE article,) do you think the reformist who are doing this by the hand of Obama will be in power? Or will it be the same ole Iran with alot of angry residents?
I for one would love to see the reformist win.....but I am not the one living in Obama land.

[The Judge]

business as usual. Business as usual would be nuclear in nature. What the right hasn't admitted yet is that what is happening in Iran right this minute is a good thing. You do admit its a good day for democracy in Iran do you not.
Who will be in power tomorrow in Iran? Who knows what will happen tomorrow in Iran? I don't, no one thought the Shah would be overthrown he had all the guns and the backing of the United States but he didn't have the Iranian people, you see its kind of hard to govern the people if they don't want to be govern. Anything is possible, a few short days ago you didn't think the people of Iran were capable of an uprising, yet, here it is in front of your eyes.

Who ever is responsible for this good fortune OBAMA deserves the credit if something bad happens on his watch he gets all the blame now this and its somehow got nothing to do with him are you crazy or what. The man just took all the heat from the right wing psycho's for extending a open hand to the Islamic nations and he gets no credit! BUSH did it from Texas while he was fishing or his policies from 2002 just happened to kick in as soon as OBAMA made his speech to the Islamic world, are you serious. Its a accident the people of Iran were ready to revolt all along the signs were just invisible to the entire world and all its journalist,get real.

How about answering some of my questions a few weeks ago the right wing on this board was talking about U.S missile attacks on Iran when would the right wing start those attacks exactly. O.K want to wait now to see how this plays out. Give peace a chance is that right?

Give OBAMA his due, history is passing you haters by. Better get on board while there is still room. A few days of a watered down version of left wing policies are better then 8 years of right wing craziness. This is proof right in front of your eyes.

[Marshall Bennett]

Obama isn't due anything . He hasn't done anything . If the current crisis in Iran results in complete disaster , he shouldn't be held responsible . If he chooses to intervene with military force , he'll be held . On the other hand he doesn't get any credit if the situation repairs itself either . Obama simply hasn't done anything , and more than likely never will . Its not his style . He's no military leader nor a negotiator anyone takes seriously , particularly in this region . His feeble attempt to make his mark in Cairo was a joke .

[Tom]

Since that speech, the world is now laughing at us.
Obama is the new word for "rube."

[Greyfox]

Christopher Hitchens has penned an interesting piece on this election.

The headline is:

Don't Call What Happened in Iran Last Week an ElectionIt was a crudely stage-managed insult to everyone involved

His views can be seen at:

http://www.slate.com/id/2220520/

[The Judge]

Peace is breaking out, India and Pakistan are talking in Russia Obama is curing the world of its ills and he is only at 1/4 strength imagine what would happen if a real left winger got into office. This guy is a moderate.

GO OBAMA GO !!! Hit where it hurts in the heart and head "give peace a chance". The train is leaving the station better get on board.

Iran, India Pakistan whose next for some of this 'peace" step right up!

[The Judge]

we get the point it was a sham of a sham do we need an article to tell us that? NOT we can look on T.V and see 100,000's of people risking life and limb to march in the streets on Iran saying count our votes. The election which was a sham was a spring -board to what may turn out to be a REVOLUTION must wait and see. I smell change in the air GO OBAMA GO.

GITMO gone, Iran on its way out of Iraq soon gone a none issue. The man is running the table on you with a watered down program.

[Lefty]

Obama doesn't give a rats ass about democracy. He voted against the iraq war. He cared not about iraqui democracy.

[Tom]

I want some of what Judge is smoking! :lol:

(Is he from Boston?)

[ArlJim78]

question for The Judge.
have you made any medication changes recently? just asking.

[46zilzal]

Obama doesn't give a rats ass about democracy. He voted against the iraq war. He cared not about iraqui democracy.
You mean that "let shove our way of life down your throat, I'm pissed that they wanted to kill my daddy war?"

The one that is being fought (like most wars) to make those connected to the WAR industry even more wealthy while they kill off more and more young people FOR NOTHING? That war?

[Tom]

Hey Zilly.....he is continuing Bush's policy. He promised to withdraw but that just another Obama lie. :lol:

[ddog]

lefty - i wouldn't spend 1 cent for any Iraqi to have "democracy" as you CALL it.

SO, to follow your logic Bush didn't care about Saudi dim, Syrian dim, Eqyptian dim, Somalian dim, on and on and on dim?

What a heartless fellow , that W!.


If THEY want a certain form of gvt , let THEM work it out.

Get out and stay out of there while you have a CHOICE in the matter.


This whole U.S. "policy" deal is going down the tubes within 10 years if not sooner.

The deal of us flooding the world with useless dollars that were given to us by them to allow us to enforce OUR policy is coming to be understood and will not be accepted as just the price to be paid for world order. :lol:
It WAS a nice con while it lasted.

bank on it!

[Marshall Bennett]

I want some of what Judge is smoking! :lol:

(Is he from Boston?)
After hearing him call Obama a " moderate " , I'm thinking something stronger .

[Marshall Bennett]

Hey Zilly.....he is continuing Bush's policy. He promised to withdraw but that just another Obama lie. :lol:
Zilly and Judge must be smoking the same thing .. together .

[46zilzal]

Zilly and Judge must be smoking the same thing .. together .
Since my wife died as the result of smoking just imagine what chance I would take putting anything into my lungs.

[newtothegame]

Judge...I want the people of Iran to have a choice. I want the people of Iran to have their voices heard. If you read my post, you would see that. I have NOT gotten on here and talked about nuking Iran. But, what I will tell you ( and you know this if we are to be honest here ), the current Iranian leadership does NOT want nukes for peaceful purposes. With the current leaderships stance against Israel (the threats of wiping them off of the face of the earth), Israel would be VERY justified to take matters into their own hands. But, thats for another thread.

What is amazing, is what I have been saying all along. Slowly but surely, you keep backing off of your original stance. In post 11, you go on to imply that the elections are real, after all, why have them if they weren't. Nice to see you are coming around and realizing that they are a SHAM.
In post 48, you contradict your own claims about it being Obama who has caused this, then you use the uprising against the Shah to support that. Sorry, but obama wasnt in charge then. One thing you are not admitting to yourself, is that over ANY period of time, there will be change. Its new thoughts with new ideas. Its people being abused for so long, that sooner or later, change is inevitable.
if you are willing to credit Obama with "his open hand" causing this, then you must also be willing to credit Obama with N Koreas threats of nuclear war with that same open hand. The point is, very few countries (especially the ones we are currently talking about), really could care less who we have as president. Its all about THEIR agendas. If they see the ability to get their agendas done at a certain time in history, well then they will push for it no matter who is in the white house. Personally, we should all be more worried about what is happening here at home. Right now it would seem we have bigger issues with this shift towards the loss of my freedoms slowly then with what is happening with the "surpeme leader of Iran". I promise you, the people of Iran will not be taking care of my behind (nor yours) no matter what happens in their election.

[The Judge]

you sound sincere so I will try this one last time, read Lefty's post #9 then my post #11. Post #11 asks "why vote" if it means that the Ayatollahs can wave their hand and thats the end of it. You see what you and the right believe is that the people of Iran would be told they lost, and they would be satisfied after all,what can they do? More to the point the right felt they were all the same. You see one Iranian you see them all. They are all under the influence of the Ayatollahs.

Now you and the right want to say it was bound to happen sooner or later. Its just that the stars and the moon and the people of Iran choose this election to raise-up . No they saw OBAMA get elected here, he makes a speech extending a hand to the Islamic community and they want in.

They took to the streets by the 100,000's, according to you the Ayatollahs could just wave his hand and say go home and they would pack up and go.

My post #11 is correct and is a reply to post #9 by Lefty

Anything on my post #31 the San Francisco Chronicle Article the "OBAMA EFFECT" it asking about GUESS WHAT? Thats right the exact same thing you and others want to pooh pooh here that I brought up way before this article.

Read the article and write the Chronicle if you have a problem with "the OBAMA EFFECT. GO OBAMA GO PEACE IS BREAKING EVERYWHERE !!!

[Secretariat]

One has to look at Washington's words on leaving office.

"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities. "

and

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.

Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies."

Even though France was in the middle of a Revolution for independence from a monarchial givernment, Washington maintained a neutrality rather than sending American troops in to help a nation obtain it's independence or to help form a democracy. He was in no way in favor of "liberating" foreign nations from tyrants. In fact Washington was quite clear about steering clear of foreign entanglements even if American involvement might help lead to the freedom of the French people.

The current Iraq War rationale of liberating the Iraqi people flies directly in the face of what Washington actually said and did while in office in relation to the French Revolution

[Lefty]

hey, Judge, Obama said today about Iran "We will not meddle" Yeah, that will really inspire the people. You are a sick Sycophant.

[ArlJim78]

hey, Judge, Obama said today about Iran "We will not meddle" Yeah, that will really inspire the people. You are a sick Sycophant.
yeah that is real inspiring stuff there, a beacon of hope. I can picture these words etched in granite someday.
"I understand that Iranians have deep concerns... it would not be helpful for the US to meddle"

[The Judge]

have been planted no need to meddle. Its been done; now keep a low profile lessen tensions between the U.S and Islamic countries that will show the U.S is changing also.

[Tom]

You know what seeds have been planted?
The seeds for another Tienemen Square.

[46zilzal]

Long ago a very wise professor uttered words that I will never forget: "People make their OWN situations." To push them one way or another just initiates resentment.

[Greyfox]

Long ago a very wise professor uttered words that I will never forget: "People make their OWN situations." To push them one way or another just initiates resentment.

Thankyou. That was a large class that I was lecturing to. Glad someone got it.;)

[newtothegame]

Long ago a very wise professor uttered words that I will never forget: "People make their OWN situations." To push them one way or another just initiates resentment.

Wait wait wait......Zil...your going against Judge here. How dare you go against one of your fellow left wingers. In judge's opinion, it is Obama and his words which have created this situation in Iran. Now you bring to the table a quote from a "wise" professor that says Obama shouldnt push them one way or another as it "initiates resentment".


Iran Says US Meddling in Election Dispute

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI
,
AP
posted: 1 HOUR 49 MINUTES AGO
comments: 970 (http://news.aol.com/article/iran-election-dispute/528314#Comments)
filed under: Iran (http://news.aol.com/world/iran), World News (http://news.aol.com/world)




TEHRAN, Iran (June 17) - Iran accused the United States on Wednesday of "intolerable" meddling in its internal affairs, alleging for the first time that Washington has fueled a bitter postelection dispute. Opposition supporters marched in Tehran's streets for a third straight day to protest the outcome of the balloting.
The Iranian government summoned the Swiss ambassador, who represents U.S. interests in Iran, to complain about American interference, state-run Press TV reported.

more at the link www.news.aol.com/article/iran-election-dispute/528314 (http://www.news.aol.com/article/iran-election-dispute/528314)

[46zilzal]

Wait wait wait......Zil...your going against Judge here. How dare you go against one of your fellow left wingers. In judge's opinion, it is Obama and his words which have created this situation in Iran. Now you bring to the table a quote from a "wise" professor that says Obama shouldnt push them one way or another as it "initiates resentment".


Race track analogy. Judge and I back the same horse one day one race. That means we agree once and we are not in some CLUB

[ddog]

Race track analogy. Judge and I back the same horse one day one race. That means we agree once and we are not in some CLUB


That's hard for those who exist only IN A CLUB to understand!

They don't think outside the club guidelines lest they be banished from the inner circle.

As to professors, well we have and ARE "pushing" all the time in Iran and many other places.

You don't think all that money we are spending that never makes the budget is being used for new drapes in the Senate do yah?

After all our stated policy is for regime change is it not?


:lol:

[ddog]

PJB: Outlasting the Ayatollahs
By Patrick J. Buchanan

The Obama policy of extending an open hand to Iran is working and ought not be abandoned because of the grim events in Tehran.

For the Iranian theocracy has just administered a body blow to its legitimacy in the eyes of the Iranian people and the world.

Before Saturday, the regime could credibly posture as defender of the nation, defiant in the face of the threats from Israel, faithful to the cause of the Palestinians, standing firm for Iran’s right to enrich uranium for peaceful nuclear power.

Today, the regime, including the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, is under a cloud of suspicion that they are but another gang of corrupt politicians who brazenly stole a presidential election to keep themselves and their clerical cronies in power.

What should we do now? Wait for the dust to settle.

No U.S. denunciation of what took place in Iran is as credible as the reports and pictures coming out of Iran. Those reports, those pictures are stripping the mullahs of the only asset they seemed to possess — that, even if fanatics, they were principled, honest men.

Like Hamas, it was said of them that at least they were not corrupt, that at least they did not cheat the people.

No more. Today, in the streets of Tehran and other cities, they call to mind “Comrade Bob” Mugabe in Harare, Zimbabwe.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will never recapture that revolutionary purity he once seemed to possess as the man of the people who was elected president in the upset of 2005. Today, he appears, as The New York Times puts it, “as the shrewd and ruthless front man for a clerical military and political elite that is more unified and emboldened than at any time since the 1979 revolution.”

and the clincher at the end



Saturday’s election not only revealed the character of the Iranian regime. It also revealed that time is on our side. If the people of Iran can defy this regime, it is no threat to us.

As with the other revolutionary and totalitarian regimes, from the Soviet Union of Lenin and Stalin, to the People’s Republic of Mao, to the revolutionary Cuba of Fidel, America outlasts them all.

And the ayatollahs, too.


http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-outlasting-the-ayatollahs-1572

[boxcar]

after all, there are people here quick to credit BO with the elections in Iran. But Iran's official position is that BO is nothing more than "intolerable" meddler. Isn't it only right, therefore, to give agree with Iran and give BO high marks for this dubious behavior, too?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0618/p06s04-wome.html

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

after all, there are people here quick to credit BO with the elections in Iran. But Iran's official position is that BO is nothing more than "intolerable" meddler. Isn't it only right, therefore, to give agree with Iran and give BO high marks for this dubious behavior, too?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0618/p06s04-wome.html

Boxcar


Not too mention, it is from the same messiahs hand in which N Korea now presents such a danger that even the russians and chinese are concerned and getting involved.. yep...Nice job there messiah :bang: