Thanks for tasers !!!!

[RaceBookJoe]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31202935/?GT1=43001

Just think if we didnt have tasers...the cop might have had to use a gun on her....well she asked for it. :)

[BombsAway Bob]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31202935/?GT1=43001

Just think if we didnt have tasers...the cop might have had to use a gun on her....well she asked for it. :)
He feared for his safety.. no, her safety.. aw, he just wanted to see if she'd light up like an X-mas tree! Barney Fife would be proud.. Andy, not so much...

[46zilzal]

More incompetent thuggery exposed for what it is.

[Tom]

Right on 46, who do these 72 year old thugs think they are?
I hasten to point out, she had only to comply to have avoided it.:rolleyes:

But, I agree, hitting an old lady with a taser is off the end, but what should have been done? I say, arrest her and prosecute her for resisting arrest and using foul language at the officer.

[Marshall Bennett]

I would think more damage would have been done trying to wrestle those brittle bones to the ground , that was about the only option left .

[46zilzal]

I would think more damage would have been done trying to wrestle those brittle bones to the ground , that was about the only option left .
Why have ANY PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION at all? This kind of force shows real stupidity and lack of forethought on the thug officer.

[Warren Henry]

Why have ANY PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION at all? This kind of force shows real stupidity and lack of forethought on the thug officer.

What should he have done? Just say "Have a nice day" and get in his vehicle and leave? He gave her every chance in the world but she insisted on doing it her way.

[46zilzal]

What should he have done? Just say "Have a nice day" and get in his vehicle and leave? He gave her every chance in the world but she insisted on doing it her way.
Friends of mine in Chicago covering the 1968 Democratic Convention for their school paper and not participating in the demonstrations other than standing to the side with cameras, met with this same type of thuggery.

Big deal she wouldn't sign a paper and you KNOCK the crap out of her?

RIDICULOUS

[ezrabrooks]

She only agree to sign the ticket...after being arrested. She dared the police officer to tase her.. He did. What is the problem? We don't profile in Texas.

Ez

[Marshall Bennett]

Why have ANY PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION at all? This kind of force shows real stupidity and lack of forethought on the thug officer.
This kind of post shows real stupidity and lack of forethought . The officer was following protocol . Had it been a 27 year old male with a limp , or a 19 year old woman with a child , he did exactly as he was trained to do . Follow the law and fly straight zilly , otherwise stay off the frickin road .

[46zilzal]

This kind of post shows real stupidity and lack of forethought . The officer was following protocol . Had it been a 27 year old male with a limp , or a 19 year old woman with a child , he did exactly as he was trained to do . Follow the law and fly straight zilly , otherwise stay off the frickin road .
Ridiculous in ANY of those situations. I work with secutiry guards at the track,mostly retired RCMP, and they think the taser has become a short cut to the solid police work they practiced for years and also comment, to a man, how LAZY these characters have now become....even their OWN here.

[BlueShoe]

Friends of mine in Chicago covering the 1968 Democratic Convention met with this same type of thuggery.RIDICULOUS

You knew Tom Hayden and the rest of the Chicago Seven?We didnt know that.

[46zilzal]

You knew Tom Hayden and the rest of the Chicago Seven?We didnt know that.
I said people from the school newspaper....

[Greyfox]

There may be times to tase but this ain't one of them.

46Zil is right. This officer is an idiot. The woman said: "Give it to me...I'll sign it." At that point he could have had her sign the ticket.
The policeman at the end of the tape justifying the officer's actions looks stupid in doing so. There was no need for any violence in this situation.

[BlueShoe]

I said people from the school newspaper....

Somehow I feel that you didnt quite get it.Am sure that other posters did.

[ezrabrooks]

There may be times to tase but this ain't one of them.

46Zil is right. This officer is an idiot. The woman said: "Give it to me...I'll sign it." At that point he could have had her sign the ticket.
The policeman at the end of the tape justifying the officer's actions looks stupid in doing so. There was no need for any violence in this situation.

If you are going to quote her, you need to get it all. She said gimme the $#%$ ticket and I'll sign it...unfortunately she was already under arrest. I am sure her kids are proud. Her story changed once the video came out. Looks like just a 72 year old liar to me.

[Greyfox]

I am sure her kids are proud.

Are you implying his kids should be proud?:lol:

[ezrabrooks]

Are you implying his kids should be proud?:lol:

I don't know if he has any kids...but, the media has pounded the fact that she was a grand mother.

[chickenhead]

maybe you guys had nothing but sweet old grannies....you've never known a feisty one to get her nose out of joint? Needless to say, while you might not be able to reason with a pissed off granny - you better not be hitting them with f'ing tasers, Jesus Christ.

If this ball-less LEO can't put handcuffs on a 72 yr old woman without first pacifying her by way of high voltage he has no business being on the force in the first place.

Forget my family, if this happened to my (rather feisty) grandmother the townspeople would burn his f'ing house down and run him out of town. And it'd probably be downhill from there.

[Steve 'StatMan']

If he'd have tried to cuff her, she'd just have kept fighting him, and would complain and sue that they hurt and/or broke her arm/wrist, etc. I'm sure she probably would have taunted the officer if she was 62, 52, or whatever, she seems like that kind of combative person.

If she wants to be an old battle axe to her kids and son or daughter in-laws, that's her family's problem. Doesn't matter who one is, you don't beligerently disobey a police officer, blow off their ticket and arrest and tell them and attempt to get back in your vehicle showing total disrespect, arguing and fighting them off and make her silly traffic stop far worse. Dared him to tase her, and tries shove herself past him to drive off while being put under arrest.

Thank God & technology for in-car Police Cameras so beligerent liars don't get away with their bullshit antics, the real situation can be properly documented, and truly abusive officers can be caught.

This angry bitch got everything she deserved, as do most angry bastards who do similar things.

If I ever get so stupid and angry and crazy that I would do similar to an officer, I would have to expect them to do whatever they felt necessary. I'd be ashamed to have behaved that badly on a traffic stop, let alone do anything criminal activity that might get me arrested, tazed, or shot at.

I mean, geeze, it's a stupid traffic stop. She got caught doing something she wasn't supposed to. Don't go aggravating an officer and even give them a reason to think your going to be trouble. The ones I've dealt with always worked with me, and I with them on traffic stops. I don't care how bad your lousy day and/or life was before you got pulled over.

[chickenhead]

If he'd have tried to cuff her, she'd just have kept fighting him, and would complain and sue that they hurt and/or broke her arm/wrist, etc. I'm sure she probably would have taunted the officer if she was 62, 52, or whatever, she seems like that kind of combative person.

What's that got to do with anything? He wouldn't have tried to cuff her, he would have cuffed her, and if she bitched about it she bitched about it.

It's like saying, "God damned right I cold cocked my wife. If I just slapped her she'd call the cops anyway, so I figured I might as well make it count."

While it might be technically true, it doesn't justify anything.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Hey, if protocal was to cuff her, I'd have wanted her to cuff her, and if he hurt her because of her fighting it, too GD bad. But apparently that isn't the protocol they use. Still people would be complaining he was brutal, even if he wasn't trying to be.

I don't want people zapped, and I don't want people cuffed, but more importantly, I want people to own up when they screw up and not turn a minor incident into a major incident by their own actions and insubbordinaton at a clearly bad time. There is time to argue about the ticket situation and the station.

[Steve 'StatMan']

What's that got to do with anything? He wouldn't have tried to cuff her, he would have cuffed her, and if she bitched about it she bitched about it.

It's like saying, "God damned right I cold cocked my wife. If I just slapped her she'd call the cops anyway, so I figured I might as well make it count."



Not really, at least to me, my friend.

[chickenhead]

Hey, if protocal was to cuff her, I'd have wanted her to cuff her, and if he hurt her because of her fighting it, too GD bad. But apparently that isn't the protocol they use.

So long as something is called protocol it makes sense, and is above reproach?

Still people would be complaining he was brutal, even if he wasn't trying to be.

That's probably true, but honestly do you think you'd hear anyone say "Look, he twisted her arm, that brute. Why didn't he do the right thing and just hit her with 50,000 volts first!"

Again, that's not an argument for what he did -- He might as well have just shot her. People are going to complain no matter what, just put the bitch down.

I don't want people zapped, and I don't want people cuffed, but more importantly, I want people to own up when they screw up and not turn a minor incident into a major incident by their own actions and insubbordinaton at a clearly bad time. There is time to argue about the ticket situation and the station.

That's got nothing to do with the price of rice my friend, that's not what this discussion is about. OF COURSE she behaved terribly, that's why she was in the process of being arrested. That's not up for debate.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Unless she would have complied with signing the ticket, or complying to be cuffed, it shouldn't have gone badly, although frankly I consider jus having to be cuffed having gone badly. It wasn't like she was willing to get into the squad car under arrest uncuffed. She just made it bad. I don't want anyone to make things bad. Once she decided to fight this, there was never going to be a 'good'.

I can't imagine why she and others behave this way and make things a worse. If you're not driving on any tickets, in most states, one can usually pay the fine and be done with it or go on temporary supervision.

Why do people feel they have a right to continue to argue and walk from or through and from an officer when they being placed under arrest? Esp. if they just listen & follow instructions, the officer will guide through the whole process and explain options?

[Steve 'StatMan']

How many readers remember the fool in the video in Post #48 of the thread below, who while being told of his choices and choosing to be arrrested still wanted to control the traffic stop and arrest and still begged/ployed/pleaded ingnorance after being tased that he didn't know they whys, what fors, and what was going on.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41370&page=4&pp=15&highlight=taser

[slewis]

This kind of post shows real stupidity and lack of forethought . The officer was following protocol . Had it been a 27 year old male with a limp , or a 19 year old woman with a child , he did exactly as he was trained to do . Follow the law and fly straight zilly , otherwise stay off the frickin road .

and this response shows PARAMOUNT stupidity......

Protocol?...my ass... What threat did she pose? NONE...ZERO.....

A good law enforcement officer ALWAYS difuses the situation when no danger is present.... then takes appropriate action. A taser on a 75 yr old granny that is unarmed is NOT appropriate. (Except maybe in the back-ass backward state you reside in.)


I hope she gets a good lawyer and sues the county and cop... and demands a jury trial.... :lol: :lol: No testimony needed... just roll the video tape!!!

The taxpayers will flip the bill for this settlement..... and I hope someone tasers that cops family.

What a joke.

[cj's dad]

Did anyone consider that this entire fiasco may have been pre-planned by granny for the purpose of filing a lawsuit ??

Please don't dismiss this possibility out of hand.

She did, in fact, lie originally to the local FOX news outlet !!

As previously posted, I am 100% against the use of tasers. Had granny had a heart condition of any kind, she could have possibly went into a-fib.

[boxcar]

Here is the perfect solution for you unrealistic peaceniks in the world: Unilateral disarmament of all cops and no use of force whatsoever at any time for any reason. Moreover, all cops must go through extensive and intensive Criminal or Suspects Negotiations or Dialogue Courses to learn to talk through all uncooperative Criminals or Suspects.

Finally, in the event talks or negotiations fail and the criminal or suspect physically resists any lawful order of a police officer, all police officers must learn to turn the other cheek. (After all, it's the biblical thing to do.) This way -- only cops would stand to get hurt in the line of duty -- never any suspect or criminal.

Anything less than this perfect solution would never satisfy any peacenik living in this highly imperfect world.

Boxcar

[Warren Henry]

An 88-year-old was shot and critically wounded today at the Holocaust Memorial Museum. Perhaps the guards should have tried to talk to him and diffuse the situation. I mean, how much trouble could an 88 year old man cause?

Any peaceniks feel he was abused?

[cj's dad]

C'mon - he was carrying a rifle and was a danger to every single person there. I doubt that you would make that statement to the family of the security guard who was murdered by this lunatic.

Glad he's dead and this has no bearing on the 'taser" issue and I think you know that.

The thing that concerns me re: this event is that the MSM is calling him a
"terrorist" which he is, but refuses to call the Muslim convert who killed a US soldier and wounded another a terrorist. Go figure.

[Marshall Bennett]

(Except maybe in the back-ass backward state you reside in.)



Making personal attacks to emphasize your position . So difficult for you to discuss an issue regardless of its nature , without unveiling what a bleeding heart liberal crybaby you are . You and the 72 year old woman have a lot in common .

[Warren Henry]

Of course he was a threat. And the 72 year old grandma who was resisting arrest and being pretty mouthy to the LEO was also potentially a threat.

A lot of folks here are making an issue of the fact that she was 72, thus not dangerous. My point is that a guy 16 years older than her was dangerous. Thus, how did the officer know for a fact that the mouthy lady wouldn't turn dangerous. She had resisted every attempt he made to handle it as a routine traffic stop. Perhaps when she tried to push by him to return to her truck, she was intending to get her 38special out from under the seat.

So, my point was that all the folks here assuming that she wasn't dangerous may not have a clue. They are just anti taser.

[46zilzal]

DANGEROUS? What the points on her "t's" or "p's" were going to pierce the poor fat slob officers blubber?

[chickenhead]

"Would you like to tase my wife before you go officer? Are you sure? Would you like to, uh, do anything else with her? Can I get it a dub of the video...for later?"

[boxcar]

Of course he was a threat. And the 72 year old grandma who was resisting arrest and being pretty mouthy to the LEO was also potentially a threat.

A lot of folks here are making an issue of the fact that she was 72, thus not dangerous. My point is that a guy 16 years older than her was dangerous. Thus, how did the officer know for a fact that the mouthy lady wouldn't turn dangerous. She had resisted every attempt he made to handle it as a routine traffic stop. Perhaps when she tried to push by him to return to her truck, she was intending to get her 38special out from under the seat.

So, my point was that all the folks here assuming that she wasn't dangerous may not have a clue. They are just anti taser.

Hah...a breath of fresh air (read: SANITY in the Real World!). Thank you.

Boxcar

[Tom]

maybe you guys had nothing but sweet old grannies....you've never known a feisty one to get her nose out of joint? Needless to say, while you might not be able to reason with a pissed off granny - you better not be hitting them with f'ing tasers, Jesus Christ.



My grandmother carried a 45. She was an undercover store detective ( in the 60's) and if you wanted to take her in, you better had tased her! :lol:

[kenwoodallpromos]

The TV report I saw said:
1) He is a taser training officer
2) He pushed her 3 times before tasing her
3) It was for "her safety" to keep her out of the road.
IMHO- He wanted to make a new taser training video on how to deal with "Everybody else" (As in "Cops against Everybody else").

[PaceAdvantage]

A lot of folks here are making an issue of the fact that she was 72, thus not dangerous. My point is that a guy 16 years older than her was dangerous. Thus, how did the officer know for a fact that the mouthy lady wouldn't turn dangerous. She had resisted every attempt he made to handle it as a routine traffic stop. Perhaps when she tried to push by him to return to her truck, she was intending to get her 38special out from under the seat.The man makes a point. And unless you've ever been in the cop's shoes, you probably will never understand.

But the next time any of you need a cop, make sure you school him first on the proper use of his assorted weaponry.

[ddog]

just normal folk exercising their secondary rights along with a little karmic blow back.

what's the big deal?

wonder what the security guard's position on abortion was?
or grannies for that matter?

[Hank]

Hah...a breath of fresh air (read: SANITY in the Real World!). Thank you.

Boxcar

UNARMED=ARMED...Que.. Rod Serling..:ThmbDown:

[slewis]

The man makes a point. And unless you've ever been in the cop's shoes, you probably will never understand.

But the next time any of you need a cop, make sure you school him first on the proper use of his assorted weaponry.


Point PA???

Even Stevie Wonder could see that NO weaponry was necessary to subdue this Granny....

It's not like she had a reputation or something... you know.. like the real Granny... on the Beverly Hillbillies... the one that could shoot and kill a possum a football field away....

That's why he tazed her...:lol:

(Careful of that 38 under the passenger seat).:bang:

[chickenhead]

But the next time any of you need a cop, make sure you school him first on the proper use of his assorted weaponry.

If at anytime in the future I find myself in need of a cop to come stun gun an unarmed old woman because I'm feeling scared, I'll remember this, and I'll be filled with a deep and abiding shame. :D

Until then....

[46zilzal]

The Robert Dziekański inquiry (fellow killed by 5 taser shots at the Vancouver airport for holding up a "dangerous" staple gun and then these same yokels did not allow EMT to get to him before he expired) is coming out soon as the RCMP officers involved are facing some major charges. ONE of the officers there that day, just was charged with vehicular homicide while driving drunk.

Fine upstanding members of the force will, no doubt just get their hands slapped again.

[PaceAdvantage]

I get it now...after a certain age, people are harmless...

Unreal...

Let's see...88-year-old guy brings out the SWAT team...someone ought to tell the SWAT guys they weren't necessary...after all, they guy's 88 freakin' years old! What harm could he do? HE'S OLD....

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/06/11/holocaust_museum_guard_shot_killed/ (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/06/11/holocaust_museum_guard_shot_killed/)

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/06/10/1244689421_0443/539w.jpg

[Tom]

GD Swat Team.
GD Swat team.

An 88 year old man! Those cowards.:rolleyes:


Hey, I have an idea, why doesn't someone post a link of cop who got shot and killed and left behind a wife and kids, and then we can all vent our anger about that.

This was one guy and none of us were there.

[slewis]

I get it now...after a certain age, people are harmless...

Unreal...

Let's see...88-year-old guy brings out the SWAT team...someone ought to tell the SWAT guys they weren't necessary...after all, they guy's 88 freakin' years old! What harm could he do? HE'S OLD....

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/06/11/holocaust_museum_guard_shot_killed/ (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/06/11/holocaust_museum_guard_shot_killed/)

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/06/10/1244689421_0443/539w.jpg

Wrong again PA,

An 8 yr old with a gun in his hands can be just as dangerous as an 18 or 28 yr old...
That's not the question or issue here. A well trained officer can evaluate and take the appropriate action minimizing risk to ALL (especially himself FIRST).
I dont think anyone on this thread wont agree with that statement.
That's certainly what this "bleeding heart liberal" (as one idiot labeled me, even though everyone knows I'm not) would like to see.

Now, how an officer goes about that is another story. I dont know what the "protocol" as one postee put it, is in that Texas juristiction, but if what we witnessed with Granny was how they conduct their "protocol", then their entire training program needs to be re-vamped.
This was a traffic violation MISDEMEANOR, not a FELONY. The officer's inability to defuse granny's bratty tirade escalated the scenario.
ANY TRUE law enforcement PROFESSIONAL would laugh when watching that video, the same way I laughed when I saw 5 or 6 New Orleans police officers trying to take down (beating)and arrest 1 man.
Lack of professionalism, and since the counties (and taxpayers) are often held responsible for the inappropriate actions of their Police staff, it often cost the taxpayers in monetary settlements. In this case, all because some dumb cop wants to play with his new toy.

[ezrabrooks]

Everybody is an expert after the fact. Policemen, in any jurisdiction, do not negotiate arrests, regardless of the age of criminal. Once you are told you are under arrest...the party is over. It is a shame that people get themselves into these positions. If you can't comply with traffic laws, and the subsequent instructions of a Police Officer, then you go to jail....how you are secured for the trip is up to you.

[Tom]

Maybe today, some punk will think twice before he mouths off to a cop or refuses to comply. Good. That message needs to be understood.

[Marshall Bennett]

Wrong again PA,

An 8 yr old with a gun in his hands can be just as dangerous as an 18 or 28 yr old...
That's not the question or issue here. A well trained officer can evaluate and take the appropriate action minimizing risk to ALL (especially himself FIRST).
I dont think anyone on this thread wont agree with that statement.
That's certainly what this "bleeding heart liberal" (as one idiot labeled me, even though everyone knows I'm not) would like to see.

Now, how an officer goes about that is another story. I dont know what the "protocol" as one postee put it, is in that Texas juristiction, but if what we witnessed with Granny was how they conduct their "protocol", then their entire training program needs to be re-vamped.
This was a traffic violation MISDEMEANOR, not a FELONY. The officer's inability to defuse granny's bratty tirade escalated the scenario.
ANY TRUE law enforcement PROFESSIONAL would laugh when watching that video, the same way I laughed when I saw 5 or 6 New Orleans police officers trying to take down (beating)and arrest 1 man.
Lack of professionalism, and since the counties (and taxpayers) are often held responsible for the inappropriate actions of their Police staff, it often cost the taxpayers in monetary settlements. In this case, all because some dumb cop wants to play with his new toy.
You're far to angry to attempt any discussion on an issue as controversial as this . This is apparent by all the caps and bold print in your post . I'd certainly hate to be an officer in your world of law enforcement . My career would be in serious jeopardy everytime I pulled anyone over for a traffic violation . Turnover in the police force would be out of control . Not to mention the log jam in our court system . I would imagine your attitude towards our military is much the same , but I won't go there .

[boxcar]

Wrong again PA,

An 8 yr old with a gun in his hands can be just as dangerous as an 18 or 28 yr old...
That's not the question or issue here. A well trained officer can evaluate and take the appropriate action minimizing risk to ALL (especially himself FIRST).
I dont think anyone on this thread wont agree with that statement.
That's certainly what this "bleeding heart liberal" (as one idiot labeled me, even though everyone knows I'm not) would like to see.

Now, how an officer goes about that is another story. I dont know what the "protocol" as one postee put it, is in that Texas juristiction, but if what we witnessed with Granny was how they conduct their "protocol", then their entire training program needs to be re-vamped.
This was a traffic violation MISDEMEANOR, not a FELONY. The officer's inability to defuse granny's bratty tirade escalated the scenario.
ANY TRUE law enforcement PROFESSIONAL would laugh when watching that video, the same way I laughed when I saw 5 or 6 New Orleans police officers trying to take down (beating)and arrest 1 man.
Lack of professionalism, and since the counties (and taxpayers) are often held responsible for the inappropriate actions of their Police staff, it often cost the taxpayers in monetary settlements. In this case, all because some dumb cop wants to play with his new toy.

He did defuse it. The taser is a legitimate method. And, Mr. wanna-be genius, just what would YOU have done if you were the cop and granny was feisty, uncooperative, stubbornly refusing to obey lawful orders? What would you have done exactly?

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

He did defuse it. The taser is a legitimate method. And, Mr. wanna-be genius, just what would YOU have done if you were the cop and granny was feisty, uncooperative, stubbornly refusing to obey lawful orders? What would you have done exactly?

Boxcar
The copy had all the information, a video of the proceedings so that any confrontation of the facts of the matter would be negated by that evidence. Leave her alone, and if they MUST arrest her, do it later when tempers had calmed down. She cannot escape reality. Violence is ridiculous here.

[ddog]

what ever became of the good ole show of the nightstick , that's been known to stop a lot of old grannies cold.

these cops that can't project authority need to be pulled off the street , they are a menace.

some got it and some never will.

[boxcar]

The copy had all the information, a video of the proceedings so that any confrontation of the facts of the matter would be negated by that evidence. Leave her alone, and if they MUST arrest her, do it later when tempers had calmed down. She cannot escape reality. Violence is ridiculous here.

You really do live in an alternate reality. "Leave her alone...do it later"? :bang: :bang:

And uh...what's the minimum age requirement for this preferential, hands-off, kid's gloves treatment? So, much for equal treatment under the law, eh? I guess some folks are created more equal than others in your eyes? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

some got it and some never will.

Without doubt you fall into the latter category.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Without doubt you fall into the latter category.

Boxcar
Violence, CONFRONTATIONAL yelling, guns, aggression, hand cuffs, Calvinists philosophy, bread and water...what bull shit!

Ran into another power mad, "I HAVE A BADGE" moron at the border a few years back. Seems a lady visiting her daughter while in California she had a heart attack. After she was able to travel back here, the mom/daughter came back up for follow up treatment. Some rookie turkey with a badge grilled her about all manner of minutia on her trip home, not allowing the daughter to speak. One of the most dangerous times for a recent MI victim is the first few weeks after the attack so I intervened and told her to back off. "What and you are a doctor?"..."YES I am and if you precipitate another heart attack in this woman over NOTHING but your aggressiveness when it is un-necessary, I will make DAMN sure that the courts will hear about it when they sue the crap out of you." We got a supervisor in to speak to her and BADGE girl was told to shut up.

Badge makes 'em think they walk on water.

[boxcar]

Violence, CONFRONTATIONAL yelling... aggression

Accurately describes the belligerent old bag. You probably consider the cop as being "confrontational" just for giving such a sweet, lil' ol' lady a ticket in fthe first place, don't you? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Tom]

Ran into another power mad, "I HAVE A BADGE" moron at the border a few years back.

You seem to bring out the worst in people. This is a pattern here. :D

[RaceBookJoe]

[QUOTE=46zilzal]Violence, CONFRONTATIONAL yelling, guns, aggression, hand cuffs, Calvinists philosophy, bread and water...what bull shit!

Ran into another power mad, "I HAVE A BADGE" moron at the border a few years back. Seems a lady visiting her daughter while in California she had a heart attack. After she was able to travel back here, the mom/daughter came back up for follow up treatment. Some rookie turkey with a badge grilled her about all manner of minutia on her trip home, not allowing the daughter to speak. One of the most dangerous times for a recent MI victim is the first few weeks after the attack so I intervened and told her to back off. "What and you are a doctor?"..."YES I am and if you precipitate another heart attack in this woman over NOTHING but your aggressiveness when it is un-necessary, I will make DAMN sure that the courts will hear about it when they sue the crap out of you." We got a supervisor in to speak to her and BADGE girl was told to shut up.

"Did i evr tell you about the time blahblahblah "

Someone may have beaten me to it...but i finally figured out who you are....the famous cartoon character Commander McBragg ( Tom, this is your cue to find a pic of CM and upload it hahah ) ....because anything that has ever happened, you have already been through it and more. An expert in all fields who can incredibly know whats going on in the mind of others. Its an honor to be in your presence :rolleyes: and yes..that last line is followed by sarcasm eyes again. rbj

[chickenhead]

I get it now...after a certain age, people are harmless...

Unreal...

Let's see...88-year-old guy brings out the SWAT team...someone ought to tell the SWAT guys they weren't necessary...after all, they guy's 88 freakin' years old! What harm could he do? HE'S OLD....

PA, this argument is well below you.

You'll notice this guy became a threat to them the moment he had a gun, not before. They didn't shoot him because "Well, you never know...". I'm guessing they aren't going to institute a new "protocol" of shooting all old men because, well, you never know.

You let the granny show she is a threat before you release the hounds. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

When it comes to people that pose no inherent physical threat on their own, people that are easily physically overpowered -- you wait until they do something threatening. Old women, little kids -- you don't just taser them because "well, you never know".

Because until they do something threatening -- THEY HAVENT POSED A THREAT.

They are not in a dark confined place, he's not being asked to make a snap judgement -- they are in the open, well lit, lots of room, no one else with her, he is in command, he has all the time to decide what's going to happen. I'm sure you think you're sticking up for cops, to me you're running them down. Not 1 cop in 10 ends up tasering this lady -- they have the skills to resolve this. This guy doesn't. By implying these are the skills we should expect of cops, to me, you are the one running them down.

[Tom]

[QUOTE=46zilzal]are....the famous cartoon character Commander McBragg ( Tom, this is your cue to find a pic of CM and upload it hahah ) ....because anything that has ever happened, you have already been through it and more. An expert in all fields who can incredibly know whats going on in the mind of others. Its an honor to be in your presence :rolleyes: and yes..that last line is followed by sarcasm eyes again. rbj


Your wish is my command......

[RaceBookJoe]

You are the best Tom !!!!!

[dvlander]

The peaceniks in this thread always criticize the response instead of criticizing what caused the response. The lady avoids all the trouble by going along with the program. I don't care if she is 72. It all boils down to the fact that if she treats the officers with respect from the get-go, she in turn would undoubtedly have been treated with the respect due a 72-year old law abiding citizen.

You become belligerent and non-compliant, you get what you deserve. Was the taser over the line? I really don't care because the lady incited an unneccesary reaction from the law officers. She is the perpetrator, not the victim.

Dale

[ezrabrooks]

PA, this argument is well below you.

You'll notice this guy became a threat to them the moment he had a gun, not before. They didn't shoot him because "Well, you never know...". I'm guessing they aren't going to institute a new "protocol" of shooting all old men because, well, you never know.

You let the granny show she is a threat before you release the hounds. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

When it comes to people that pose no inherent physical threat on their own, people that are easily physically overpowered -- you wait until they do something threatening. Old women, little kids -- you don't just taser them because "well, you never know".

Because until they do something threatening -- THEY HAVENT POSED A THREAT.

They are not in a dark confined place, he's not being asked to make a snap judgement -- they are in the open, well lit, lots of room, no one else with her, he is in command, he has all the time to decide what's going to happen. I'm sure you think you're sticking up for cops, to me you're running them down. Not 1 cop in 10 ends up tasering this lady -- they have the skills to resolve this. This guy doesn't. By implying these are the skills we should expect of cops, to me, you are the one running them down.

No...the guy was a threat from the git go...the security guard just hadn't realized it yet.

[46zilzal]

No...the guy was a threat from the git go...the security guard just hadn't realized it yet.
Don't think chickenhead was talking about DC, but more likely the Texas situation.

[chickenhead]

No...the guy was a threat from the git go...the security guard just hadn't realized it yet.

Maybe someday we can reach the utopian world that you extremely confused "libertarians" ( :lol: ) are arguing for here -- where the cops just disable everyone as a matter of course. Since their safety is the primary concern, and since tasers are harmless toys, and since, well, you never know -- their first action should be to taser anyone they come in contact with.

Obviously being angry or verbally abusive is not a very good threat indicator. If I were going to try to get the jump on a cop, say I had a life's sentence worth of cocaine in my trunk and I wasn't going to go down without a fight, his first indication of this would be when I pulled the gun. I certainly wouldn't be yelling at him first. I'd be as passive as can be, until I wasn't.

Ergo, his only protection from someone like me is to disable me before I do anything. And since he wouldn't know who I am ahead of time, or be able to distinguish me from the non threats, that means he has to disable everyone immediately.

So someday maybe you'll all get your wishes -- and if you get pulled over for a speeding ticket the cop can zap you and your old lady, and your kids, handcuff you all -- and then ask if you know why you got pulled over. Because, well, you never know....you might have had a .38 under your seat.

That's peachy logic you boys are putting out there.

[Marshall Bennett]

I don't see where that's the logic anyone has put out there . Sounds like a sarcastic example you came up with .

[chickenhead]

OK, I'll take the other side. I can probably argue it better than people here anyway.

Why shouldn't the cops taser everyone as a matter of course? You like the idea of cops getting killed, you hippy peacenik?

If you don't want to get tasered, don't break the law, and you won't get pulled over. You break the law, you get pulled over, you get what you deserve. You can't expect the cop to risk his life for something you've done wrong. How does he know you don;t have a .38 under your seat?

You don't want your wife and kids tasered? Then drive the speed limit. Take some personal responsibility.

[46zilzal]

I don't see where that's the logic anyone has put out there . Sounds like a sarcastic example you came up with .
Much akin to the poor Polish guy LOST in our airport who was KILLED for his confusion and inability to speak English by a group of these Yahoo trigger happy clowns who dispensed with logic and went right to violence and then had the audacity not to let the emergency people in to resuscitate this "dangerous character" who CAME AT THEM WITH A STAPLE GUN.

[ezrabrooks]

OK, I'll take the other side. I can probably argue it better than people here anyway.

Why shouldn't the cops taser everyone as a matter of course? You like the idea of cops getting killed, you hippy peacenik?

If you don't want to get tasered, don't break the law, and you won't get pulled over. You break the law, you get pulled over, you get what you deserve. You can't expect the cop to risk his life for something you've done wrong. How does he know you don;t have a .38 under your seat?

You don't want your wife and kids tasered? Then drive the speed limit. Take some personal responsibility.\

Glad to see you come around.. That side makes more sense the other crap you have been spewing.. You have been paying attention.

[chickenhead]

explain it to Marshall, he doesn't seem to understand that you'd be ok with that.

[PaceAdvantage]

OK, I'll take the other side. I can probably argue it better than people here anyway.

Why shouldn't the cops taser everyone as a matter of course? You like the idea of cops getting killed, you hippy peacenik?

If you don't want to get tasered, don't break the law, and you won't get pulled over. You break the law, you get pulled over, you get what you deserve. You can't expect the cop to risk his life for something you've done wrong. How does he know you don;t have a .38 under your seat?

You don't want your wife and kids tasered? Then drive the speed limit. Take some personal responsibility.Getting tasered at traffic stops is not the norm, never has been.

Refusing to sign a ticket is not the norm either. When told to do something REASONABLE by a police officer, 99% of the people comply willingly.

This woman was given MULTIPLE chances to comply with the officer's REASONABLE demands.

She refused each and every time.

Would you rather he push her to the ground, tackle her and break her hip, or crack her skull with his stick? Would that have been a better way to secure the arrest?

Or maybe he should have just stood there for a few hours in some sort of non-confrontational standoff until she fell asleep (after all, she's OLD).

It's so easy to second guess after the fact, as someone already pointed out...

There's a reason these guys are carrying tasers...they are non-lethal (despite the propaganda 46 will trot out) and they are effective.

[46zilzal]

IF they are so NON-LETHAL no one, particularly those with NO drugs in their system and no pre-disposing medical conditions, would put up fresh as a daisy and they don't.

[PaceAdvantage]

IF they are so NON-LETHAL no one, particularly those with NO drugs in their system and no pre-disposing medical conditions, would put up fresh as a daisy and they don't.They are non-lethal. That's a fact.

How much does Aspirin and Tylenol kill every year by comparison?

What were those stats you posted? An average of one death per state over how long a period? I believe it was multiple years....perhaps you can repost your death statistics as it relates to tasers.

[Marshall Bennett]

More offenders die from heart failure . Falls on deaf ears though when dealing with someone as hard-headed as zilly .

[slewis]

Getting tasered at traffic stops is not the norm, never has been.

Refusing to sign a ticket is not the norm either. When told to do something REASONABLE by a police officer, 99% of the people comply willingly.

This woman was given MULTIPLE chances to comply with the officer's REASONABLE demands.

She refused each and every time.

Would you rather he push her to the ground, tackle her and break her hip, or crack her skull with his stick? Would that have been a better way to secure the arrest?

Or maybe he should have just stood there for a few hours in some sort of non-confrontational standoff until she fell asleep (after all, she's OLD).

It's so easy to second guess after the fact, as someone already pointed out...

There's a reason these guys are carrying tasers...they are non-lethal (despite the propaganda 46 will trot out) and they are effective.


Another ridiculous group of statements......

I have a VERY VERY CLOSE FRIEND who is a Judge and do you know what she tells her kids (and has lectured me about).

"NEVER NEVER NEVER" (did I say it enough times) "sign (or say) anything a police officer asks you to sign unless I (or another lawyer) explains what you are signing."

Police ROUTINELY coerce people into guilt... and it's PERFECTLY LEGAL.

They can lie in order to get YOU to admit to guilt by signing or confessing on video.

When Granny appears before a Judge, and the Judge asks her why she refused to sign, her lawyer will tell her to say "I was told NEVER to sign anything unless I understand. Im old and was scared and dont understand".
Perfectly acceptable.

All this idiot cop had to do was count to 60 and Granny's heart rate would have returned to normal and her tizzy tirade would have been over, as would this scenario.
You people are rah rah-ing this cop justifying this with "she should have complied to REASONABLE requests".
DUH.... of course she should have.... so f..in what? If she goes into cardiac arrest after being tazered are you police supporters saying "oh, well, she got what she deserved"?
I cant believe Im reading this crap.....Unless this has just become a usual bickering battle between the left and right..... If so.... the possible loss of life is not worth it.

Those who are defending the actions of this officer are fools.

There isn't a DA in the country who will proscecute this "resisting arrest".
If the DA in this county in Texas does, it's suicidal .... he can wipe his ass with his Law school diploma.

Just get Granny into traffic court, let her pay the speeding ticket and PRAY she doesn't sue the county... which she will.

[chickenhead]

Getting tasered at traffic stops is not the norm, never has been.

Refusing to sign a ticket is not the norm either. When told to do something REASONABLE by a police officer, 99% of the people comply willingly.

Sure, and cops get shot doing that. Usually by people who are smiling at them, and doing everything they ask the second before they pull a gun. I am probably 1000 times the threat, sitting in my car, smiling, following his directions, as that lady was. You can't have it both ways and argue she's a threat, without admitting I'm a greater threat. AND admitting that the cop doesn't know which of the 1% is gonna go bad AHEAD of time. That's all. It's either about THREAT or it's not. And if it was, then taser us all bro.

Would you rather he push her to the ground, tackle her and break her hip, or crack her skull with his stick? Would that have been a better way to secure the arrest?

Like I said, I believe 90%+ of cops come out of that altercation without either electrifying granny, or breaking her legs off into bloody nubs. I guess I just have a greater respect for their abilities.

Not that anyone cares -- but I hope it's obvious I'm not against tasers -- I'm against tasering unarmed old ladies. In large part -- because I guarentee you the fatality rates as measured and as published -- are not for 70 year olds. If any of you thinks stun guns pose the same risks to elderly people as they do to the 20 year olds they are usually used on, you live in a fantasy world.

[PaceAdvantage]

So basically, what I'm reading here is that, if you are OLD, you are allowed to resist arrest. Is that it Slewis?

When it comes to the cane and walker crowd, anarchy rules!

Good to know...can't wait till I hit 72....I'm gonna have some FUN!

And forget about the signing part Slewis...here in NY, you don't have to sign anything...you get pulled over, the cop fills out the ticket and hands it to you...no signing required. Obviously, this Texas county has different rules.

[PaceAdvantage]

Sure, and cops get shot doing that. Usually by people who are smiling at them, and doing everything they ask the second before they pull a gun. I am probably 1000 times the threat, sitting in my car, smiling, following his directions, as that lady was. You can't have it both ways and argue she's a threat, without admitting I'm a greater threat. AND admitting that the cop doesn't know which of the 1% is gonna go bad AHEAD of time. That's all. It's either about THREAT or it's not. And if it was, then taser us all bro.You've been watching way too many movies if you actually believe that cops are most likely to be attacked, hurt or killed by people with top notch acting skills, able to keep calm with a smile on their face moments before they blow somebody's head off with a concealed weapon.

I would submit they are most likely to be killed or injured by folks who are acting nervous, belligerent, high/drunk and/or violent, then they are by the guy sitting quietly behind the wheel.

[Marshall Bennett]

Slewis is such an expert in matters regarding law . We should all sit and listen . Where was my mind ? The $$ and time I could have saved by simply waiting for his free lessons . Your problem isn't anything having to do with laws governing law enforcement , though they're weak ,but your attitude towards common logic . You need to correct that first , and then approach the more difficult details of the case .

[chickenhead]

You've been watching way too many movies if you actually believe that cops are most likely to be attacked, hurt or killed by people with top notch acting skills, able to keep calm with a smile on their face moments before they blow somebody's head off with a concealed weapon.

I would submit they are most likely to be killed or injured by folks who are acting nervous, belligerent, high/drunk and/or violent, then they are by the guy sitting quietly behind the wheel.

I believe it is actually 100% factual that the most dangerous part of a traffic stop is immediately as they come abreast of the window for the first time. I've certainly been told that by a credible source, but I suppose it could be wrong. Maybe in your mind that's a Hollywood scenario -- it makes perfect sense to me. Generally I'd imagine, the people who do plan at shooting at them -- are not screaming "I'm going to shoot you!" to them as they walk up to the window.

[Tom]

Tasers are getting out of control.....

[slewis]

So basically, what I'm reading here is that, if you are OLD, you are allowed to resist arrest. Is that it Slewis?

When it comes to the cane and walker crowd, anarchy rules!

Good to know...can't wait till I hit 72....I'm gonna have some FUN!

And forget about the signing part Slewis...here in NY, you don't have to sign anything...you get pulled over, the cop fills out the ticket and hands it to you...no signing required. Obviously, this Texas county has different rules.

Absolutely not ok at any age PA... I stated that this is NOT about Granny... It's about the amaturistic action of the officer.

Quick story...At this years Preakness, as Im sure you heard... no coolers in the infield because of the drunkeness last year.... They stick all the owners in the infield in special tents..and we had to wait till the last race was over to leave (to cross the track).

I was talking to a young Baltimore city police officer. He was telling me how much better the crowd was this year and that he enjoyed working the day.
Then, out of nowhere, some man in his 40's, a bit drunk, but capable of knowing what he's doing, starts ranting at the police. There was a female officer, he called her a "bitch cop". Then a rather chunky officer, he called him a "fat pig". They let him yap for 10 minutes.. I told the officer "You really need this after a quiet day". He laughed and said, "I've had enough, excuse me".... and headed with another officer to confront this guy.
In the true height of professionalism for this young officer.. He cautiously approached, never raised his voice, spoke peacefully and tried to reason, all the time you could see he (and partner) were prepared for anything, even the worst.
After trying to talk to the guy quietly for 5 minutes, the guy was still obnoxious (the officer, who was a pretty powerful guy, (Im 6'1 and 190 and he was at least 15 lbs heavier and in great shape) He and his partner firmly grabbed this guys arms quietly telling him to relax and not resist.. and peacefully escorted him away. No tazer, no mace, no violence... just pure professionalism.
I guarantee that had he walked over and started yelling at this guy (like the Tex cop) and used his badge instead of his brain, it would have been much much uglier.
Im certain both of these officers have been through VERY similar training.... difference is, one is competant, and the other is psychotic with a gun and badge. (and tazer).

[46zilzal]

QUOTE: I guarantee that had he walked over and started yelling at this guy (like the Tex cop) and used his badge instead of his brain, it would have been much much uglier.
I'm certain both of these officers have been through VERY similar training.... difference is, one is competent, and the other is psychotic with a gun and badge. (and tazer).

HIT the nail on the head

[ezrabrooks]

Another ridiculous group of statements......

I have a VERY VERY CLOSE FRIEND who is a Judge and do you know what she tells her kids (and has lectured me about).

"NEVER NEVER NEVER" (did I say it enough times) "sign (or say) anything a police officer asks you to sign unless I (or another lawyer) explains what you are signing."

Police ROUTINELY coerce people into guilt... and it's PERFECTLY LEGAL.

They can lie in order to get YOU to admit to guilt by signing or confessing on video.

When Granny appears before a Judge, and the Judge asks her why she refused to sign, her lawyer will tell her to say "I was told NEVER to sign anything unless I understand. Im old and was scared and dont understand".
Perfectly acceptable.

All this idiot cop had to do was count to 60 and Granny's heart rate would have returned to normal and her tizzy tirade would have been over, as would this scenario.
You people are rah rah-ing this cop justifying this with "she should have complied to REASONABLE requests".
DUH.... of course she should have.... so f..in what? If she goes into cardiac arrest after being tazered are you police supporters saying "oh, well, she got what she deserved"?
I cant believe Im reading this crap.....Unless this has just become a usual bickering battle between the left and right..... If so.... the possible loss of life is not worth it.

Those who are defending the actions of this officer are fools.

There isn't a DA in the country who will proscecute this "resisting arrest".
If the DA in this county in Texas does, it's suicidal .... he can wipe his ass with his Law school diploma.

Just get Granny into traffic court, let her pay the speeding ticket and PRAY she doesn't sue the county... which she will.

Get your jurisdictions straight. In Texas, you are required to sign the ticket, with no admission of guilt, giving your assurance that you will appear in Court. If you don't sign, then the process begins immediately...starting with your arrest. Like it or not...that is the way it will go down. As to what the DA does in Travis County, which is probably the most liberal in the State, I have no idea, and not the point of this discussion.

[toetoe]

She only had to say these words:

"Don't tase me, bro.'"

[46zilzal]

There are a lot things that the police don't tell you that you have to discover yourself.

I recall when I was just learning to drive and a friend got a ticket. The fine was some real odd total, $33.00 and he asked for an itemized accounting of the fine. He discovered that they had written in their own "tip" with an extra three dollars, NOT REQUIRED, which went into the policeman's retirement fund. With that he paid $30.00 and left.

[46zilzal]

Another wacko,out of control idiot stops an AMBULANCE in Oklahoma because the ambulance failed to yield to him?

Moron is on administrative leave, do you have to have an IQ in the teens to qualify to be a state trooper there?

[slewis]

Get your jurisdictions straight. In Texas, you are required to sign the ticket, with no admission of guilt, giving your assurance that you will appear in Court. If you don't sign, then the process begins immediately...starting with your arrest. Like it or not...that is the way it will go down. As to what the DA does in Travis County, which is probably the most liberal in the State, I have no idea, and not the point of this discussion.

I dont have to get my juristiction straight EZRA....

But you need to read my post more carefully......

[slewis]

Another wacko,out of control idiot stops an AMBULANCE in Oklahoma because the ambulance failed to yield to him?

Moron is on administrative leave, do you have to have an IQ in the teens to qualify to be a state trooper there?

Zil, I dont think anyone with a brain wont admit that there are good police officers and very bad police officers......

The laughable point in this entire thread is how many hard line right wingers actually believe that, given the circumstances, the granny cop was doing his job correctly.
We heard everything, including the "what if granny had a 38 under the seat" crap.

You will find some regarding this Oaky video that will defend this cop as well... even with a sick patient in the ambulance....

I give the Paramedic kudos for standing up to the jerk...

[lsbets]

Sadly events like this have happened way too often, and too many bad officers - either through temperament or training, have made it obvious that the police in our country should not have tasers. When the state is able to take someone's life and say "Oops sorry, that was supposed to be non lethal" we have granted the state too much power. Tasers are a crutch for bad cops to lean on and need to be taken away. They are abused way too often.

[PaceAdvantage]

So there aren't any very good police officers, slewis? :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Statistically speaking, tasers are non-lethal. End of story.

Tylenol kills as well (and not only when someone tampers with it). I believe most sane individuals would consider Tylenol a non-lethal drug...

Over the years, how many people have been killed by officers using their sidearms that are now saved because of these tasers? If there are as many bad cops out there as 46zilzal and slewis would have you believe, then you guys should be jumping for joy they have these tasers to use instead of their revolvers.

In addition, how many people have been beaten to death, maimed and/or crippled by the nightstick over the years? Again, if there is this epidemic of "bad cop" running around, thank the good Lord above that the taser was invented. That's what you guys should be saying...

I shudder the thought that one day the taser will be outlawed for police use and all these "very bad cops" will go back to killing people with their fists, sticks, and guns.

[46zilzal]

Sadly events like this have happened way too often, and too many bad officers - either through temperament or training, have made it obvious that the police in our country should not have tasers. When the state is able to take someone's life and say "Oops sorry, that was supposed to be non lethal" we have granted the state too much power. Tasers are a crutch for bad cops to lean on and need to be taken away. They are abused way too often.
BINGO, on the button, nail on the head, right on etc

we are coming to the end of the inquiry into the Polish fellow killed at our airport and the officers involved are now hiding behind the fact that they are federal officers and provincial inquires, THEY THINK, have no control over them.

As per usual PA you miss the point: Many many of these guys , BY TEMPERAMENT should NEVER have been law officers in the first place no matter the mode of weaponry they have at their disposal

[boxcar]

Sadly events like this have happened way too often, and too many bad officers - either through temperament or training, have made it obvious that the police in our country should not have tasers. When the state is able to take someone's life and say "Oops sorry, that was supposed to be non lethal" we have granted the state too much power. Tasers are a crutch for bad cops to lean on and need to be taken away. They are abused way too often.

Hmm...tell me, please: Do you know if these "events" that have "happened way too often" involved more undeserving good guy victims or deserving bad guy victims?

Boxcar

[juanepstein]

id tase these two in a heartbeat!

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[slewis]

Statistically speaking, tasers are non-lethal. End of story.

Tylenol kills as well (and not only when someone tampers with it). I believe most sane individuals would consider Tylenol a non-lethal drug...

Over the years, how many people have been killed by officers using their sidearms that are now saved because of these tasers? If there are as many bad cops out there as 46zilzal and slewis would have you believe, then you guys should be jumping for joy they have these tasers to use instead of their revolvers.

In addition, how many people have been beaten to death, maimed and/or crippled by the nightstick over the years? Again, if there is this epidemic of "bad cop" running around, thank the good Lord above that the taser was invented. That's what you guys should be saying...

I shudder the thought that one day the taser will be outlawed for police use and all these "very bad cops" will go back to killing people with their fists, sticks, and guns.


PA are you kidding me????


Go and find the post where I state that a tazer should be banned....

Cut the sh*t..... You're tylenol statement is, well, you fill in the blank....

This is NOT about the effectiveness of the tazer... it's about THE APPLICATION of unnecessary force and the circumstances leading to an obvious overreaction AND physical abuse by a rogue officer....
The other day I watched a video where a driver of a car had committed a felony and was in a speed chase with several officers. An officer had placed a "nail strip" on the road to flatten and deflate the suspects tires. The suspect tried to run him over and missed by literally inches. Shortly after, the car flipped and officers rushed, and attacked and started beating the suspect.
These are the type of sceanrios that make it difficult for officers to control their emotions, and 98 of 100 would probably agree that an aggressive reaction is understandable and not warrant discharge or firing.
In the case of Granny, the numbers are 4 of 100.... and those four have incredibly posted that opinion on Pace Advantage.

I dont think attempting to spin my statements will get you very far....

[ddog]

You've been watching way too many movies if you actually believe that cops are most likely to be attacked, hurt or killed by people with top notch acting skills, able to keep calm with a smile on their face moments before they blow somebody's head off with a concealed weapon.

I would submit they are most likely to be killed or injured by folks who are acting nervous, belligerent, high/drunk and/or violent, then they are by the guy sitting quietly behind the wheel.

your submission is just nuts and if you would stop you would see that.

If a cop or YOU happen to see a bad actor, would not you be on guard maybe even call in backup or in your case "cross the street".


You have the "real world" backwards here.

[lsbets]

Hmm...tell me, please: Do you know if these "events" that have "happened way too often" involved more undeserving good guy victims or deserving bad guy victims?

Boxcar

Would you say the Polish guy in the airport deserved to die? Do you think the 72 year old woman deserved to be treated worse than most drug dealers who get arrested?

Sorry, there is no excuse for incidents like those, and we hear about those on a fairly regular basis. The issue is not about the deserving scumbag - it is about police officers who cannot behave in the manner they should - protecting the members of a civil society. When the police know no bounds to their power, we do not truly enjoy our freedoms - we are slaves to the state.

I feel the same way about capital punishment. While I have no problem seeing the guilty executed, too many mistakes are made and too many innocent people have been executed (and I would say one is too many, but the number is a lot higher). Until we can come up with a system that is 100% certain about guilt, I do not think the state should have the power to take a citizens life.

[boxcar]

Would you say the Polish guy in the airport deserved to die? Do you think the 72 year old woman deserved to be treated worse than most drug dealers who get arrested?

Sorry, there is no excuse for incidents like those, and we hear about those on a fairly regular basis. The issue is not about the deserving scumbag - it is about police officers who cannot behave in the manner they should - protecting the members of a civil society. When the police know no bounds to their power, we do not truly enjoy our freedoms - we are slaves to the state.

I feel the same way about capital punishment. While I have no problem seeing the guilty executed, too many mistakes are made and too many innocent people have been executed (and I would say one is too many, but the number is a lot higher). Until we can come up with a system that is 100% certain about guilt, I do not think the state should have the power to take a citizens life.

I try not to make these kinds of judgments on the basis on anecdotal evidence alone. Someone would have to come with some pretty strong statistical evidence that clearly demonstrated taser abuse, which means I'd have to know how many times in a year those devices are used throughout the nation, have at least different classifications of incident types well documented that the police thought justified their use and the number of official complaints -- at minimum. I need something a heck of a lot stronger just "way too often".

I don't have time to get into your capital punishment sentiments, for it's nearly chow time. Plus it's a little off-topic anyway. :)

Boxcar

[ezrabrooks]

I dont have to get my juristiction straight EZRA....

But you need to read my post more carefully......

So what was your point? Don't sign the ticket, and appear before the Judge? You conveniently left out what happens in the meantime, that being you go to jail.

One other thing, try to work on your spelling.

Ez

[PaceAdvantage]

This is NOT about the effectiveness of the tazer... it's about THE APPLICATION of unnecessary force and the circumstances leading to an obvious overreaction AND physical abuse by a rogue officer....Yes, all AFTER the fact, when we KNOW Granny was essentially harmless.

The officer, at THAT TIME...how does he know Granny is harmless? Here is the officer, he's given her plenty of warnings, plenty of time to comply...he TOLD her he was going to tase her, did he not? And she STILL resisted....

You're telling me this STILL is a person worthy of kid glove treatment?

I don't give a damn if she's 72 or a woman. We've already seen how much death and destruction an 80+ year old man can produce at the holocaust museum...

And you guys laugh it off that she heads back to her car...you laugh it off that she may have been able to get to a weapon in that car...as if it's some huge joke...as if old people or women aren't capable of violent crimes.

Of course, nobody here is going to post the videos of police officers killed or injured in the line of duty by folks you wouldn't think were capable of such a thing...as if that never happens...

[PaceAdvantage]

your submission is just nuts and if you would stop you would see that.

If a cop or YOU happen to see a bad actor, would not you be on guard maybe even call in backup or in your case "cross the street".


You have the "real world" backwards here.More f'in names for me...thank you so much for your heady submission....

[jballscalls]

Yes, all AFTER the fact, when we KNOW Granny was essentially harmless.

The officer, at THAT TIME...how does he know Granny is harmless? Here is the officer, he's given her plenty of warnings, plenty of time to comply...he TOLD her he was going to tase her, did he not? And she STILL resisted....

You're telling me this STILL is a person worthy of kid glove treatment?

I don't give a damn if she's 72 or a woman. We've already seen how much death and destruction an 80+ year old man can produce at the holocaust museum...

And you guys laugh it off that she heads back to her car...you laugh it off that she may have been able to get to a weapon in that car...as if it's some huge joke...as if old people or women aren't capable of violent crimes.

Of course, nobody here is going to post the videos of police officers killed or injured in the line of duty by folks you wouldn't think were capable of such a thing...as if that never happens...

It's funny because some here will question officers tactics after the fact, and whenever someone is tasered, certainly they should look into why and how it happened.

However, i know if I had a relative, a wife, father, cousin, uncle that was a cop, I would want them to always err on the side of their safety, and if they are truly worried about their safety or anyone else's safety for a SPLIT second, they need to act accordingly.

[PaceAdvantage]

These guys wanted the cop to knock her down...maybe blow on her, since she's old and all...

They wanted him to get in close contact with her and give her a great big bear hug, because she's harmless...an old lady...after all, old people can't kill anyone, can they? They're physically incapable of causing another person harm, as far as I can tell....:rolleyes:

[itsme]

Now a days you can't trust anybody. I would trust the officer with a badge before i trust a mouthy granny off the street. she got what was coming to her. when law enforcement encounters someone like her training kicks in doesn't matter who they are. she should have kept her trap shut and followed the rules. thats why we have laws.