When oh when

[freeneasy]

i grow weayt of hearingof the woes of the racing industry: declining intrest, attendence handle, an aging fan base. what can we do? are slots at the track the answer. maybe a new advertising campamaign? go baby go. I have to laugh to keep from crying
the answer has always been and continues to be: lower takeout
Espeacially now when there is a casino on every corner and everybody and his brother has an offshore wagering account, takeout rates of 14 to 30 percent just arent competive. ( believe it or notPenn Nationaltakes 30% of tris, supers and pk3s). Truley the amazing thing at these takeout rates is anybody bets on a horse race at all. The fact that people still do speaks volumes about the appeal of horse racing
the overwhelming majority of the racing fans will continue to lose at the track. With a lower takrout, it will justtake them a little longer.
They will churn the same money over a few more races. They will have more fun and maybe go to the races a little more often. They will tell their friends. Maybe some of their friends will become racing fans.
Just maybe a fraction of the very best handicappers will manage to eke out a profit. As it standsnow, nobody wins. I have seen a lot of bright devoted horseplayers throw in the towel over the years. Sure you may have winning months or even years. But at a reduced takeout a few handicappers would start winning consistantly. My guess is that this would stimulate intrest and fervent compition amoung serious players, leading to big increases in handle.
So what are the chances that shortsighted racetrack managers will ever realize that lowering the takeout is the surest way to save our sport? Talk about your longshots.

[GameTheory]

Read the "Magna/Churhill" article posted in another thread -- they know it. They just may do it someday, but then we'll have new things to complain about as the racetracks become more & more "corporate"...

[ThoroTech_OPLS]

I dunno - sure, I'd like to see it happen, and sure, if a _competitor_ lowers take out right now that track will do great because it will suck away $$$ from other tracks (_and_ could induce more wagering from the same pool of players too), but...

I don't think that newcomers to the sport are enticed by the notion of "takeout" - where's the sex appeal in "takeout" -- its not Chinese is it? You can't sell takeout, not as takeout and for takeouts sake (but maybe for something else). Most people that "get into" playing slots don't go knowing that they are screwed before they walk into the door -- most people that start playing the horses don't know the difference between a part wheel and pigeon turd. Alls I'm saying is that lower takeout would be great, for us, but I don't see it solving the problem of dwindling interest in the sport.

Here's something off the wall.... And don't flame me (but feel free to criticize -- the idea --), it's just a thought that flew into my head. I haven't even decided if its something I'd be interested in or not....

Imagine a format where you actually wagered for the rights to the horse -- for ownership. If you won you would then be entitled to the future winnings of the horse -- until you lost. OK, lots of problems. So get rid of a few of them -- you wouldn't have to pay for feed, trainer, vet, etc.. These horses would be the responsibility of the track - your wagering dollar pays for their keep. Trainers would be on staff. Sorry, no more prima donnas of the sport. In fact, make the trainers veterinarians (again, not sure I would even go for this idea, but thinking out of the box). Bottom line:

Make the people responsible FOR THE HORSES:

A) NOt have ANYTHING to do with how well the horses perform on the race track (no betting, no purse monies, etc.). Just a working joe salary commiserate with expertise, demand, and experience.

B) Those people care foremost about the health and well being of the horses. They need to be able to run as often as possible, they need to be fit, because they are indeed owned by the tracks - who benefit from our wagering dollars. Tracks purchase horses from breeders. Maybe tracks mix up their horses on each circuit, and tracks may go after the big stakes wins with their best horses -- the way that professional sports teams do....

C) Get rid of purses all together. Yep, that's right, no more private ownership of horses. The sport of kings is dead, may it rest in peace. Its now the peoples' sport, the sport of the degenerate gambler.... (take what I'm saying with a grain of salt).

OK, now that we've re-arranged things we see that we don't have to worry about major purse monies to attrack big horses. The tracks manage all that sort of thing - they own all of the horses. Noone else has a reason to. They pay their trainers, their staff, etc. (obviously they have a LONG way to before they could possibly do this given most track management that I've seen....). All that purse money gets put back into track revenue.

One big problem -- larceny. Who would oversee that _noone_ that worked at, or was a involved in anyway with, the "track", that now has full control over the horses, could bet on races? Probably impossible. Whole idea probably out the window on that alone.

OK, felt like typing so there it is. The starting point sort of got lost. That is, when you win, you get a piece of "ownership" of the horse until you lose. Maybe you have a "token" vote on what races he runs in next, or something like that. I don't know. I guess with no purses that idea is shot too (hey, stop smirking! I said this was all just thinking outside of the box!!!).

Feeling ..... like ... .Bran...cu.si.... too .... faasssst..... es....car...go... fr...ench.... fry....fa...ding........

-N

[GameTheory]

Originally posted by ThoroTech_OPLS
I dunno - sure, I'd like to see it happen, and sure, if a _competitor_ lowers take out right now that track will do great because it will suck away $$$ from other tracks (_and_ could induce more wagering from the same pool of players too), but...

I don't think that newcomers to the sport are enticed by the notion of "takeout" - where's the sex appeal in "takeout" -- its not Chinese is it? You can't sell takeout, not as takeout and for takeouts sake (but maybe for something else). Most people that "get into" playing slots don't go knowing that they are screwed before they walk into the door -- most people that start playing the horses don't know the difference between a part wheel and pigeon turd. Alls I'm saying is that lower takeout would be great, for us, but I don't see it solving the problem of dwindling interest in the sport.


As pointed out in that same article, horse racing is actually a monster industry -- bigger than the movie industry. The beauty of low takeout is you don't have to know about it -- there will *automatically* be more money in the bettors pocket, therefore he will turn it over more, have more winning days, be more likely to interest others, etc. Also, American racing has never before made an effort to send its product to other countries, which is probably going to change. I actually see a bright future for the industry. But in ten years, we'll probably be pining for the good old days of 2003 anyway...

[keilan]

4 guys sitting around at the OBT, full fields and everyone writes down their race selection attached to a $20.00 bill. Minimum odds 3-1, in the case of no winner we now have a carry over and minimum odds are now at 7-1.

Of course one can participate in the other type of wagers offered by heading over to the tellers.

What is saved in the takeout more than pays for the tab – Kinda like free finger food and beers.

[Early]

Lower takeout may be part of the equation, but it isn't the critical factor, IMO.

Hard to find empty seats at the slots. How many slot players show a long-term profit? How does track takeout compare to slots?

When a slot player finally gets smart enough to see what is happening to his/her money, they quit or if they don't they just continue to lose money. If they do quit, someone is there to take their place. The fact that in the long run the vast majority of slot players lose money has no impact on how much they pump through those machines.

So why are the tracks empty and the slots full?

- people intimidated by track (too complicated and don't know what to do)
- parking/admission/program costs
- long half hour wait between races
- building atmosphere
- the way people are treated!!! Casinos are actually nice to people. When was the last time a track gave you a free coffee. Yes, those things do make a difference.
- for the serious, long-term gambler, takeout is important. 95% of the people at the track don't know what takeout is and don't know what the numbers are.

[Kentucky Bred]

It's amazing that, at this moment, their are two threads right next to each other. One is this one on track takeout and the reasons why the track interest/attendance is falling. The other from P/A posters who are comparing what odds they got from an offshore site now offering "player to player" wagering on US tracks. The similarity is striking.

This is going to be a very big problem for this industry real soon. I've commented repeatedly about this new betting revolution. I do not have any offshore accounts although I do not judge people for having one. Freeneasy said that lower takeout might help people to keep their bankroll longer or turn marginal players into winners. This is true.

However, with some European sites offering unbelievably low juice (3% even lower in some cases), your marginal players will quickly be thinking that the job at the restaurant doesn't pay enough. I make no judgement on this. I just want to state that this betting is here to stay without some Iraqi style invasion on offshore betting site offices.

At the risk of sounding negative, I'm not sure there is a solution for this problem. Better/bettor? track experience? Sure that would help and is needed. But as more people engage and wager against each other, betting through the track will make people feel like chumps.

And what a shame. I just came back from the Oaks at CD and attended the races with over 100,000 fans. It was great. Everyone I saw was laughing and having fun while betting the horses. Even the women in the infield taking off their tops in order to win a free T-shirt. :D

Kentucky Bred

[kenwoodall]

These will help save racing:
__________
*Less tracks
*more otb at indian casinos
*bigger monitors
*adjusted start times so races every 5 minutes
*new rule-winner of clainer must wait 45 days to run in same or lower purse claimer or starter.
*A free beer if you nane the horse to finish LAST!

[Hosshead]

The Number 1 Thing That Will Save Racing-

May I Have The Envelope Please

And The Winner Is : From Kentucky Bred --

Women Taking Their Tops Off At The Track !!!!

[superfecta]

Originally posted by Hosshead
The Number 1 Thing That Will Save Racing-

May I Have The Envelope Please

And The Winner Is : From Kentucky Bred --

Women Taking Their Tops Off At The Track !!!! Girls Gone Gambling!See Missy have the daily double....you might get a parlay....or maybe see a real hotwalker....:eek:

[lousycapper]

Originally posted by Hosshead
The Number 1 Thing That Will Save Racing-

May I Have The Envelope Please

And The Winner Is : From Kentucky Bred --

Women Taking Their Tops Off At The Track !!!!

============================

Darn, I won't be age of majority for 2-1/2 years!

-L.C.

[Kentucky Bred]

...they've tried everything else. I would suppose it would give new meaning to "bobble-head doll". (LOL)

Kentucky Bred