View Full Version : Tote Failures Magnified
rrbauer
06-09-2009, 11:24 AM
I know there are some other threads here concerning this topic. Here's the latest from BH with admissions from all concerned that United Tote did not have any "failover" process in place prior to the May 20 snafu (and still don't so they're closing betting when the first horse enters the gate - after another screwup on June 5). And, that they did not have their clocks synchronized that would've allowed the use of date/time stamps to ferret out the good bets from the late ones. Also, we get word from the NTRA that they have been looking at this for some time that "didn't start a month ago".
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51167/united-tote-addressing-penn-national-glitch?source=rss
How can anyone have any confidence that there is ANY integrity in the tote-wagering system, let alone just some basic stuff.
takeout
06-09-2009, 04:21 PM
How can anyone have any confidence that there is ANY integrity in the tote-wagering system, let alone just some basic stuff.I sure don’t have much confidence in it. I’ve read far too many stories of “glitches” and such. I’ve also seen a few too many weird payouts, bad and good, that made me suspect that a mistake (or worse) may have been made/done somewhere. The story that woke me up was the one where the dog track guys were printing themselves an extra winning tri (or super?) ticket every night on the last race. Went on for a long time and it was a fluke that they were caught.
One can only guess at how many of these incidents we never hear about. I’m sure the vast majority of them are swept under the rug if at all possible, honest mistakes or otherwise.
How many are ongoing right now?
Toss drugs and everything else into the mix and what’s the real takeout?
takeout
06-10-2009, 02:41 AM
Here’s the dog track one I might have been thinking of. It was either this or another one that was similar. I wonder how feasible the same type of thing is today and if it’s still being done.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ojmwSoW8g7IC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=dog+track+tote+scam&source=bl&ots=b3a0CBJeE1&sig=xka_VjpbxJDGSSnNQzCaf_taMOE&hl=en&ei=aE0vSoygJI2JtgfO3un5Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4
rrbauer
06-10-2009, 09:36 AM
As I have posted in other threads, the only thing that has changed from the fix-six scandal is that the data manipulation that was being accomplished at the network hubs now has to happen at the host-track computer facility.
The idea that it "can't happen" in a network that can't failover to mitigate an equipment malfunction; and, can't use time/date stamps as the last resort method for accepting/rejecting bets because there is no universal time synchronization, and leaves the highest-program number off of all "quick pick" bets (for how many months/years?) is right up there with the tooth fairy.
PaceAdvantage
06-10-2009, 10:10 PM
It seems that incompetence, laziness, complacency and a cheapskate mentality thrives at many levels of this sport...
46zilzal
06-10-2009, 10:30 PM
Many of you do not realize how complicated the multiple levels of simulcast broadcasting and parimutuel co-mingling really are. Each outlet has to have an updated contract, they have to go through decoders to get the signal and the parimutuels (these all go through satellites which are subject to weather, sun spot activity, interference with other microwave broadcasts at close to the same frequency), these all have to stay coordinated (many of the pulses come through the wagering hubs up to 30 seconds before they are reported on the tote board), etc etc....
I am simply amazed that it works as well as it does day to day.
Many of you do not realize how complicated the multiple levels of simulcast broadcasting and parimutuel co-mingling really are. Each outlet has to have an updated contract, they have to go through decoders to get the signal and the parimutuels (these all go through satellites which are subject to weather, sun spot activity, interference with other microwave broadcasts at close to the same frequency), these all have to stay coordinated (many of the pulses come through the wagering hubs up to 30 seconds before they are reported on the tote board), etc etc....
I am simply amazed that it works as well as it does day to day.
I think most everybody here does realize it. It isn't that hard, it is just an outdated system. I'm amazed you think it works well at all. Chances are, for every "glitch" we hear about, another 50 have been swept under the rug. Does anybody really believe the last few years is the first time these "glitches" have happened? Please...
46zilzal
06-10-2009, 10:49 PM
I think most everybody here does realize it. It isn't that hard, it is just an outdated system. I'm amazed you think it works well at all. Chances are, for every "glitch" we hear about, another 50 have been swept under the rug. Does anybody really believe the last few years is the first time these "glitches" have happened? Please...
You have been in the parimutuel computer area, the television studio, a wagering hub to actually see first hand how it works? I doubt that.
You have been in the parimutuel computer area, the television studio, a wagering hub to actually see first hand how it works? I doubt that.
Well, you are wrong, but it is irrelevant. It doesn't have to be near as complicated as it is made. And, these "complications" had nothing to do with the recent failures.
PaceAdvantage
06-11-2009, 12:48 AM
You have been in the parimutuel computer area, the television studio, a wagering hub to actually see first hand how it works? I doubt that.It's amazing the things you will try and make excuses for, while other things you have absolutely no middle ground on....
46zilzal
06-11-2009, 01:02 AM
It's amazing the things you will try and make excuses for, while other things you have absolutely no middle ground on....
Having WORKED behind the scenes and realizing all the complicated manipulations which are required to get the show out out to all of you gives me a unique perspective that few have and allows me to explain to others, not privy to that same position, just what actually goes on behind the scenes. A lot of things, with multiple built in problems of their own, have to go right to get the show out to all of you. The levels of security alone would boggle your mind.
PaceAdvantage
06-11-2009, 01:52 AM
Having WORKED behind the scenes and realizing all the complicated manipulations which are required to get the show out out to all of you gives me a unique perspective that few have and allows me to explain to others, not privy to that same position, just what actually goes on behind the scenes. A lot of things, with multiple built in problems of their own, have to go right to get the show out to all of you. The levels of security alone would boggle your mind.Yeah, I get it already...you work at the track...a lot of people here work at the track...you aren't that special.
A lot of people here have behind the scenes knowledge....
Levels of security so mind boggling that Penn National can't stop people from betting after the bell and those guys took down the BC Pick 6 YEARS AGO....problems still not fixed TODAY....
Mind boggling security...indeed....
lamboguy
06-11-2009, 08:40 AM
Yeah, I get it already...you work at the track...a lot of people here work at the track...you aren't that special.
A lot of people here have behind the scenes knowledge....
Levels of security so mind boggling that Penn National can't stop people from betting after the bell and those guys took down the BC Pick 6 YEARS AGO....problems still not fixed TODAY....
Mind boggling security...indeed....this is not an isolated incident, it happens every day in every venue that accepts simultcast and adw wagering. there are skilled computer people that can get into a closed system and change the time of the bet after the betting has been closed to the regular public. the nasdaq had to revise its whole system to protect the integrity. otherwise they would lose all their business and no one would trade stocks. racing has the exact problem, only thing is they just put a bandaid on the problem and prays that it goes away.
wisconsin
06-11-2009, 12:37 PM
this is not an isolated incident, it happens every day in every venue that accepts simultcast and adw wagering. there are skilled computer people that can get into a closed system and change the time of the bet after the betting has been closed to the regular public. the nasdaq had to revise its whole system to protect the integrity. otherwise they would lose all their business and no one would trade stocks. racing has the exact problem, only thing is they just put a bandaid on the problem and prays that it goes away.
You are right on the mark. We have all seen those exactas that come back real, real short in relation to the odds and field size......always makes me wonder.
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