newbie question on betting

[tomddxx]

I'm mostly a sports bettor ( I dont like the 17 % to 25 % vig on horses ) and dont know much about horses, but I had some questions on horse wagering.

I know that trainers can bet on a race their horse is entered in, but can jockeys also bet on a race they are riding in?

If not, cant they just get someone to bet for them ?

Also, if a jockey is riding the second favorite, what's to prevent the
trainer/and or the jockey from betting on the favorite and then telling the jockey to make sure his horse loses so the favorite has a better chance to win?......or can he make more money by trying to win the race and collect the purse ?

Reason Im asking is that there have been alot of European scandals of tennis players having big time gambling debts and they agreed to throw a tennis match so that the gamblers can bet on the other player.

Wonder if the same kind of thing can happen with horses.

Thanx in advance.

[andymays]

You may want to read a thread in general racing discussion about Racetrack Characters. Read the post by Spectacular Sid about Richie "Fingers" Sklar near the end just before mine. It's about 18 subjects from the top.


Manipulating or fixing races is rare but it does happen more often that it should.

By the way many times an owner will put a ticket in the Jockeys boot before the race. It has to be on the Owners Horse!

[fmolf]

I'm mostly a sports bettor ( I dont like the 17 % to 25 % vig on horses ) and dont know much about horses, but I had some questions on horse wagering.

I know that trainers can bet on a race their horse is entered in, but can jockeys also bet on a race they are riding in?

If not, cant they just get someone to bet for them ?

Also, if a jockey is riding the second favorite, what's to prevent the
trainer/and or the jockey from betting on the favorite and then telling the jockey to make sure his horse loses so the favorite has a better chance to win?......or can he make more money by trying to win the race and collect the purse ?

Reason Im asking is that there have been alot of European scandals of tennis players having big time gambling debts and they agreed to throw a tennis match so that the gamblers can bet on the other player.

Wonder if the same kind of thing can happen with horses.

Thanx in advance.
boxing and tennis are the sports most easily fixed.....one man is all it takes to throw each....a jockey may only have a bet on the horse he is winning and many a jockey has been called down to the stewards office for a questionable ride(not trying his best)...also remember that their might be 8 other horses trying to win the race and for one horse to throw a race is very difficult.....it is really in the jockeys best interest to try to win so he can ride the owners horses long term and collect 10% of the winning purse

[Imriledup]

I'm mostly a sports bettor ( I dont like the 17 % to 25 % vig on horses ) and dont know much about horses, but I had some questions on horse wagering.

I know that trainers can bet on a race their horse is entered in, but can jockeys also bet on a race they are riding in?

If not, cant they just get someone to bet for them ?

Also, if a jockey is riding the second favorite, what's to prevent the
trainer/and or the jockey from betting on the favorite and then telling the jockey to make sure his horse loses so the favorite has a better chance to win?......or can he make more money by trying to win the race and collect the purse ?

Reason Im asking is that there have been alot of European scandals of tennis players having big time gambling debts and they agreed to throw a tennis match so that the gamblers can bet on the other player.

Wonder if the same kind of thing can happen with horses.

Thanx in advance.

Very rarely will a trainer actually verbalize to a rider to 'throw a race' just so he can bet on a favorite that he has no idea will 'perform' or not.

Stiffing racehorses is easier to do if you are a trainer because you can give the horse a drug to make him 'go slower' or just not feed him for a week. With a rider, he's actually going to have to pull some shenanigans while riding and there are trained eyes to sniff out that sort of stuff. Jockeys who are making a nice living aren't as likely to do anything to jeopardize their careers. Now, you got a guy who's starving, then, that's a different story.

Not mentioning any names, but there's a rider that i'm following now who's, well, lets just say, he hasn't been getting the most out of his mounts imo. I've really taken advantage of horses he's ridden and they all run much better the next time with a different jock. One horse had Beyer figs consistently in the 70s. This guy took over and 'did what he does' and the horse ran in the 50s. The next time, with a new rider, the horse ran back to his 70's and won. So, if a jock cant get em to run for whatever reason, if you are paying attention, you can take advantage next time with a different jock.

I actually wish jocks were allowed to stiff without getting in trouble and the reason is because i can see with my eyes which horses are 'not being let run' and i can capitalize on them next time. With everyone being honest, the form on paper is going to be very close to what the horse can actually do in real life, which means, everyone knows that what the horse shows is representative of his ability and therefore, you don't have as much of an edge. I'd love to have 'good horses' look bad on paper. if i can sniff that out, its good for my bottom line.

As far as betting horses vs betting sports, i feel that horse racing is more honest because if you are the best horse, you usually win. In sports, the refs and umps have been known to favor teams with star players or teams from cities that get better tv ratings, so you don't really know if you are getting a fair shake in sports betting. In sports betting you have to worry if the league and refs are going to 'let' certain teams win to extend those 7 game serieses to get extra revenue. That stuff is not something you have to worry about in horse racing. The only thing you have to be concerned about in horse racing is poor officiating where they are going to disqualify you on a nitpick.

I know the takeout rate in sports is much lower, but in a way, its not and here's why. Because in sports, the odds are made by professionals, so even though the takeout is 5%, you have to beat a professional line. In horse racing, the tax is higher (15% for win bets at some major tracks) those odds are made by the general public and as we know, most of them are not professionals. You can also, in horse racing, get a last second edge that you can't do in sports too often. If there's an even money shot who is sweating like a pig and you see this with 1 minute before the race starts, you can take advantage of this. If a star player in sports has the flu, you won't know about it until its too late and if you DO find out in advance, that will be factored into the spread almost immediately.

One last thing. In sports, most of the time, you can't make a major score on your knowledge. Most of sports is bet 11 units to win 10 units. In horse racing, you can hit pick 3's, pick 4s and pick 6s that pay in the thousands or hundreds of thousands.....if the general public makes a big mistake in horse racing, you can really make a life changing score. Its much harder to make a life changing score in sports......sports betting is grind it out.