Ridiculous

[jasperson]

Saturday at CD there are 11 first time starters and 11 of them were on lasix. The vets at that track need to be investagated for just handing out lasix medication. The fasted one of these horse worked was 4f in 52 and if he bled from that he shouldn't be allowed to race under any conditions.:mad:

[LottaKash]

Hey Jasperson, interesting observation......

Perhaps that is because this is the USofA, and "drugs rule" today....

The average person over 65 is on at least 3-prescribed medications, yet we still have the highest incidences of heart attacks, obesity, strokes and cancer, and more than any other country in the world....

Somehow we've come to believe the "hype/propaganda" that the modern day medical science has force fed us to believe, that we need more and more drugs, and now they are controlling us thru these medications.....

I saw an ad the other day for some "asthma related drug" and a side-effect could be "asthma related Death"....:eek:

Me personally, I see right thru the medical peddlers, that are so in bed with the FDA and the pharmaceutical-trained doctors, when they attempt to tell me that I should take this and that drug, as if I suffered from a "lack of it".....

The out of control FDA and Big-Pharma have seen to it that the "The Horse Racing Industry" and the "Vets" are now, no different that any other medical tributary, as "Drugs Now Rule America", from our children on the new modern day psyche-meds, all the way over to the many sports figures of our day.....

DRugging is here, it is rampant, and it is, quite the reality of our time.....This nation is sick, and it is getting sicker, but not the kind of sick that "Our Grandma's" knew...

best,

[Cadillakin]

Saturday at CD there are 11 first time starters and 11 of them were on lasix. The vets at that track need to be investagated for just handing out lasix medication. The fasted one of these horse worked was 4f in 52 and if he bled from that he shouldn't be allowed to race under any conditions.:mad:
You make a good point..

Many handicappers might not realize that lasix sometimes has benefit in calming a nervous disposition. A friendly relationship between trainer and vet will often get the lasix without significant evidence of bleeding during their work..

I'm one who believes that too much medication is allowed in racing.. But, in the many instances when lasix is used for purposes other than to help with bleeding issues.., I don't think it has much, if any, deleterious affect. Nor do I think there is anything wrong in using it for those purposes.

[LottaKash]

You make a good point..
I don't think it has much, if any, deleterious affect. Nor do I think there is anything wrong in using it for those purposes.

You see Cadilakin, you have made "my point"... That somehow, we don't see how our perception, of drugs and their use or misuse, has somehow been altered thru the constant bombardment and seductions of Big-Pharma....

Calm our horses, wow......

best,

[Cadillakin]

You see Cadilakin, you have made "my point"... That somehow, we don't see how our perception, of drugs and their use or misuse, has somehow been altered thru the constant bombardment and seductions of Big-Pharma....

Calm our horses, wow......

best,
Well, I can't comment on what effects Big Pharma has over you...

But for thoroughbreds - who tend to be high strung in the best of conditions, being locked up 23 hours a day can often exaggerate any pre-dispositions they already have..

Lasix can help minimize mental duress.. and in doing so, it may also prevent physical injury. No question that horses would be better off in big grassy paddocks. I'm sure if you could poll them, they would agree.. But since we race and house them, they have to live with the conditions we provide. Lasix, whether for bleeding or calming purposes, is an attempt to make them more comfortable within that reality, without doing them much if any harm.

[magwell]

I dont think in KY. you need a vet certificate to put a horse on lasix the first time. Its just like a seat belt, you dont want to wait till you have accident so you will wear it next time, why wait for the horse to bleed first, and damage their lungs before using lasix, when its legal to use to begin with ?

[Pace Cap'n]

Lasix can help minimize mental duress..

What is the basis for that assertion?

[macguy]

I dont think in KY. you need a vet certificate to put a horse on lasix the first time. Its just like a seat belt, you dont want to wait till you have accident so you will wear it next time, why wait for the horse to bleed first, and damage their lungs before using lasix, when its legal to use to begin with ?

I don't know about KY specifically, but I do know that is true in many states these days.

Many states allow horses to enter the EIPH program at "the trainers discretion," meaning if the trainer thinks the horse needs Lasix, then the horse gets Lasix. In some cases the trainer may require a rubber stamp from a vet.

I feel that it's become a kind of heard mentality. It used to be quite often horses would run multiple starts before running on Lasix. Things slowly progressed to horses usually just running their first start without Lasix, then getting Lasix second start out. Now it seems that very nearly every horse debuts on Lasix first time out.

There's nothing like seeing those 2 year old 2f races in the spring where nearly every starter is being treated with Lasix.

I suppose if every trainer sees that every other trainer is using it, then they probably feel they are at a disadvantage if they don't.

I mean really, in states where horses are allowed to run on Bute, how often do you see a horse not entered to run on Bute? Almost never.

[Imriledup]

Vets need to be put on the program. If a horse gets a positive from a banned medication, the vet needs to be disciplined as well as the trainer.

[LottaKash]

Vets need to be put on the program. If a horse gets a positive from a banned medication, the vet needs to be disciplined as well as the trainer.

I believe the problem with the vets is, that Big-Pharma rewards Dr.'s that reward them, and it is quite lucrative.....The drug-industry literally gives out billions in cash incentives to medical people who dole out their potions & poisons.....

America has become the "most drugged" nation on the planet....this is true.

best,

[CBedo]

The drug-industry literally gives out billions in cash incentives to medical people who dole out their potions & poisons
If you count funding for research trials, payments for medical speeches and educational lectures, some dinners and entertainment, and logoed pens, paper, calendars, etc, then yes they give out billions....and yes, we shouldn't be so naive as to expect that some of this wouldn't influence prescribing habits, but let's be clear that drug companies don't directly pay doctors.

And if you want to continue this big pharma discussion, let's do it in an off topic forum, not digress (as I have--sorry) from the point of jasperson's thread.

Back on point, it has been discussed here before about the possibility of listing not just the jockey and trainer of a horse, but the vet as well (I realize that barns use multiple vets, so iit would be hard to implement). It would be interesting to look for "vet patterns" as horses changed barns, lol.

[LottaKash]

And if you want to continue this big pharma discussion, let's do it in an off topic forum, not digress (as I have--sorry) from the point of jasperson's thread.

With all due respect CBedo, this is on topic, it is about how Big-Pharma is drugging everyone and everything these days and it has now spilled over into the "horse-racing" arena in a big way....

Drugging of horses with Bute, Lasix and Steroids etc., is so widespread NOW, compared to what once was in the realm of horse racing, it has become the Norm and not the exception any longer.....

Many years ago, when one would follow Meds on/off, it was at least to some extent a viable impact value of sorts....I don't even pay attention to it anymore, and it doesn't hurt my bottom line to any degree that I am aware of...

So ,I suppose my initial and intended purpose and comment to this topic should have been more short & sweet, so I will say, "The Horsemen, and the Vets", are out of control with drugs and their original intended purposes......

Go Big Brown......

best,

[Imriledup]

I believe the problem with the vets is, that Big-Pharma rewards Dr.'s that reward them, and it is quite lucrative.....The drug-industry literally gives out billions in cash incentives to medical people who dole out their potions & poisons.....

America has become the "most drugged" nation on the planet....this is true.

best,

So, you're saying that these vets are getting kickbacks and the vets are giving some of the kickbacks to the racing commissions so that they don't force the vet to be on the program and to be held accountable for a drug violation that a trainer might receive? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but is this what you are saying, or is it something else? What incentive (other than financial) would racetracks have to not put the vet name in the pgm along with the trainer and punish the vet if that horse comes up positive?

[LottaKash]

IRU...you are putting words in my mouth....all I "really" wanted to say is:


Drugs in Horse Racing are out of control...........(America is out of control with drugs)

best,

[Imriledup]

IRU...you are putting words in my mouth....all I "really" wanted to say is:


Drugs in Horse Racing are out of control...........(America is out of control with drugs)

best,

Gotcha Kashman!

I'll just wait patiently by the phone for a call from horse racing telling me that one day they WILL put vets names in the program and punish accordingly. Hopefully i won't die of old age waiting for that to happen.

Best,
IRU

[CBedo]

Big-Pharma is drugging everyone and everything these daysI've heard lots of different groups to blame for the problems in horse racing, but this is the first time I've heard Merck, Pfizer, etc are at fault! :lol: