Choosing Location: The Breeders Cup

[Cadillakin]

I agree with Stephen Crist's column at DRF today...The mixture of synthetics with dirt racing is becoming a problem.

For myself, I don't much care to hear Jackson's excuses about why his horse lost at the Breeders Cup last year and his assertion that his current champion will not compete on such a surface.. But it is becoming obvious.. Crowning champions when horses are running on essentially different surfaces (synthetics, dirt) is problematic..

For those of you who don't have access to DRF plus, I'll just quote the last two paragraphs...

Crist writes;

"The natural rivalry between the two coasts has been taken to unnatural heights by the introduction of synthetic tracks in California, which has led me to question a longstanding opinion of my own. I used to think that moving the Breeders' Cup around the country was an essential part of its charm, but now I wonder if the idea of a permanent, neutral host site isn't worth revisiting."

"The obvious choice would be Churchill Downs. It's the fairest compromise: spiritually if not technically a midpoint between the coasts, just about equally inconvenient for everyone, and provides suitable courses for the dirt and grass racing that define American racing and its great horses. And after all, no one complains that the Kentucky Derby is run there every year."

On the other hand - Crist doesn't touch on this...

The Europeans were very happy with the surface and results of last years Breeders Cup. To them, the Santa Anita racetrack offered a viable compromise that is likely to attract MUCH more international participation in the future..

This, I think, over the long term, can be a big boost for our racing..

[46zilzal]

I


The Europeans were very happy with the surface and results of last years Breeders Cup. To them, the Santa Anita racetrack offered a viable compromise that is likely to attract MUCH more international participation in the future..

This, I think, over the long term, can be a big boost for our racing..
Hey they have contributed a lot to the BC races: let them have their time in the sun so to speak.

They absolutely LOVE the Woodbine turf course as it is the closest thing to what they routinely run on it Europe.

[fmolf]

I agree with Stephen Crist's column at DRF today...The mixture of synthetics with dirt racing is becoming a problem.

For myself, I don't much care to hear Jackson's excuses about why his horse lost at the Breeders Cup last year and his assertion that his current champion will not compete on such a surface.. But it is becoming obvious.. Crowning champions when horses are running on essentially different surfaces (synthetics, dirt) is problematic..

For those of you who don't have access to DRF plus, I'll just quote the last two paragraphs...

Crist writes;

"The natural rivalry between the two coasts has been taken to unnatural heights by the introduction of synthetic tracks in California, which has led me to question a longstanding opinion of my own. I used to think that moving the Breeders' Cup around the country was an essential part of its charm, but now I wonder if the idea of a permanent, neutral host site isn't worth revisiting."

"The obvious choice would be Churchill Downs. It's the fairest compromise: spiritually if not technically a midpoint between the coasts, just about equally inconvenient for everyone, and provides suitable courses for the dirt and grass racing that define American racing and its great horses. And after all, no one complains that the Kentucky Derby is run there every year."

On the other hand - Crist doesn't touch on this...

The Europeans were very happy with the surface and results of last years Breeders Cup. To them, the Santa Anita racetrack offered a viable compromise that is likely to attract MUCH more international participation in the future..

This, I think, over the long term, can be a big boost for our racing..
ifthey decided to not have the bc races on synthetic tracks then we'd might see how fast california changes their stance ...and at least one track change back...sant anita? :lol:

[Bruddah]

Yeah, I remember all the races the Euro's changed to accomodate American interests. Why they even changed all of the Arc races to dirt and the direction they ran. OH! wait a minute! that was a pipe dream I had back in the day I smoked a pipe.

If you want to run for Dollars, you run the American way. If I want to run for Pounds and Francs, youl run the Euro way. Accomodation should not be one way. That's what this whole artificial turf battle is about. Some of the Blue Bloods in the BC want to INTERNATIONALIZE the Sport. To do so gives them some sort of legitimacy in the Court of St. James. At least they think so. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. They will always be the dirty little Americans and nothing they can do will change it.

[46zilzal]

Some of the Blue Bloods in the BC want to INTERNATIONALIZE the Sport. To do so gives them some sort of legitimacy in the Court of St. James. At least they think so. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. They will always be the dirty little Americans and nothing they can do will change it.
IF they gave up their drug habits, the world of racing would be more accepting of them

[andymays]

Yeah, I remember all the races the Euro's changed to accomodate American interests. Why they even changed all of the Arc races to dirt and the direction they ran. OH! wait a minute! that was a pipe dream I had back in the day I smoked a pipe.

If you want to run for Dollars, you run the American way. If I want to run for Pounds and Francs, youl run the Euro way. Accomodation should not be one way. That's what this whole artificial turf battle is about. Some of the Blue Bloods in the BC want to INTERNATIONALIZE the Sport. To do so gives them some sort of legitimacy in the Court of St. James. At least they think so. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. They will always be the dirty little Americans and nothing they can do will change it.


Quadruple Ditto!

[Cadillakin]

Yeah, I remember all the races the Euro's changed to accomodate American interests. Why they even changed all of the Arc races to dirt and the direction they ran. OH! wait a minute! that was a pipe dream I had back in the day I smoked a pipe.

If you want to run for Dollars, you run the American way. If I want to run for Pounds and Francs, youl run the Euro way. Accomodation should not be one way. That's what this whole artificial turf battle is about.
Actually, since we lived the transition here in California and heard all the arguments for and against.. I'll correct your assertion.. The change was essentially about breakdowns and improving soundness in the race horse. Mostly, it was well intentioned.. as are the current track certification efforts..

Maybe it is different in the tracks you know about. Maybe other tracks installed synthetics to accomodate European runners.. I don't know. I'm a California player..

[MickJ26]

The Breeders Cup people want fast and firm and Southern California can practically guarantee that. They don't want another Monmouth. I suppose once they figure out which tracks are staying open and which ones are closing, I expect them to make Santa Anita the permanent home of the Breeders Cup.

[cj's dad]

Yeah, I remember all the races the Euro's changed to accomodate American interests. Why they even changed all of the Arc races to dirt and the direction they ran. OH! wait a minute! that was a pipe dream I had back in the day I smoked a pipe.

If you want to run for Dollars, you run the American way. If I want to run for Pounds and Francs, youl run the Euro way. Accomodation should not be one way. That's what this whole artificial turf battle is about. Some of the Blue Bloods in the BC want to INTERNATIONALIZE the Sport. To do so gives them some sort of legitimacy in the Court of St. James. At least they think so. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. They will always be the dirty little Americans and nothing they can do will change it.

excellent post :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[slewis]

IF they gave up their drug habits, the world of racing would be more accepting of them


What drug habits are you talking about Zil?

[46zilzal]

What drug habits are you talking about Zil?
BUTE, furosemide both work against one another. the former causes bleeding and reduces healing and the latter covers up the problems of the former.

No other venue on earth allows them in the horse's system

[slewis]

California racing is sick and dying of Poly track cancer...


But there is a much bigger problem.... see the doctor working on the patient isn't really an MD at all.

He's a fraud, complete with fake diploma, instruments and no real knowledge of the game.

The doctor has ALL the answers to California's short fields.
He has the knowledge to keep horses sounder.......
have more starts per year ..which will result in LARGE FIELDS... BIG PAYOFFS... LOTS OF EXCITEMENT.
The doctor has ALL the answers.

Even the Breeders Cup, NTRA, and racing's "elite" blue bloods, all back the doctor's diagnosis.....poly track is the way to go.

Yes, California will once again rise to the great heights of Throughbred superiority.....and POLY TRACK IS the messiah to get it there.

But guess what???? Somethings gone terribly wrong....
The fields are still very short... so much so that they'll race just 4 days a week.
Dont blame Poly...... or the MD..... it's the economy... yeah that's it... it's the economy.
Horses are sounder then ever.... stats are in .... no more breakdowns.. ever.
Last breakdown on a California track, or any synthetic surface for that matter was 5, maybe even 10 yrs ago....
( I dont even know why Greyson-JC research is donating another 50 G's for MORE research... POLY has already answered ALL the questions)
That money should be put to better use...
Let's bribe some politicians on the EAST coast. They TOO will see POLY is the ONLY way to go.
They'll mandate it every track in their states... Hey NY racing would be great!
They could put pro-ride at Belmont... Tapeta at Aqueduct... and cushion at Saratoga!!!
The MD will sign off on this too!... In his "professional" opinion, of course.

Synthetic tracks have become the biggest farce in almost ANY sports history, and instead of biting the bullet and straightening the problem out.... the Calif. powers that be would rather die a slow, stubborn death.... and make no mistake, death it will be.

[Bobzilla]

California racing is sick and dying of Poly track cancer...


But there is a much bigger problem.... see the doctor working on the patient isn't really an MD at all.

He's a fraud, complete with fake diploma, instruments and no real knowledge of the game.

The doctor has ALL the answers to California's short fields.
He has the knowledge to keep horses sounder.......
have more starts per year ..which will result in LARGE FIELDS... BIG PAYOFFS... LOTS OF EXCITEMENT.
The doctor has ALL the answers.

Even the Breeders Cup, NTRA, and racing's "elite" blue bloods, all back the doctor's diagnosis.....poly track is the way to go.

Yes, California will once again rise to the great heights of Throughbred superiority.....and POLY TRACK IS the messiah to get it there.

But guess what???? Somethings gone terribly wrong....
The fields are still very short... so much so that they'll race just 4 days a week.
Dont blame Poly...... or the MD..... it's the economy... yeah that's it... it's the economy.
Horses are sounder then ever.... stats are in .... no more breakdowns.. ever.
Last breakdown on a California track, or any synthetic surface for that matter was 5, maybe even 10 yrs ago....
( I dont even know why Greyson-JC research is donating another 50 G's for MORE research... POLY has already answered ALL the questions)
That money should be put to better use...
Let's bribe some politicians on the EAST coast. They TOO will see POLY is the ONLY way to go.
They'll mandate it every track in their states... Hey NY racing would be great!
They could put pro-ride at Belmont... Tapeta at Aqueduct... and cushion at Saratoga!!!
The MD will sign off on this too!... In his "professional" opinion, of course.

Synthetic tracks have become the biggest farce in almost ANY sports history, and instead of biting the bullet and straightening the problem out.... the Calif. powers that be would rather die a slow, stubborn death.... and make no mistake, death it will be.

Slewis, do you think there is a possibility that the Chairman of the NY state racing and wagering board, John Sabini, might someday recommend that New York's tracks convert to all-weather? To be honest with you I'm not even sure if it's within his capacity to make such a recommendation, I suspect that it is. I do recall reading some comments that were attributed to him last year where he seemed to downplay the fact that there had not been an afternoon breakdown on a NYRA dirt surface for a period of months. I believe he said something to the effect that the reason there was no breakdowns at Saratoga was because the meet showcased the sports best athletes and the best horsemen around. I don't remember him stating anything about the safety of the track itself or the great work of the maintenance people. Not one afternoon breakdown at a major racing circuit on a dirt surface seemed to me to be important news, and yet the only space I saw anything written about it was on this message board as well as 2 separate colutmns by Steven Crist and Steve Haskin.

[robert99]

Yeah, I remember all the races the Euro's changed to accomodate American interests. Why they even changed all of the Arc races to dirt and the direction they ran. OH! wait a minute! that was a pipe dream I had back in the day I smoked a pipe.

If you want to run for Dollars, you run the American way. If I want to run for Pounds and Francs, youl run the Euro way. Accomodation should not be one way. That's what this whole artificial turf battle is about. Some of the Blue Bloods in the BC want to INTERNATIONALIZE the Sport. To do so gives them some sort of legitimacy in the Court of St. James. At least they think so. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. They will always be the dirty little Americans and nothing they can do will change it.

The Euros have raced at the courses decided by the Breeders Cup Committee under the conditions decided by the Breeders Cup Committee. We have not asked for any concessions - we have no input even to ask for any concessions. We have not asked for any course accommodations. We get invited, turn up to race and race without any fuss. The Breeders Cup Committee have named the races the Breeders Cup World Thoroughbred Championships. So in their terms, not ours, these are not even American races - they are international races.

"For over two decades since its inception in 1982 as the brainchild of the late John Gaines, Breeders’ Cup Ltd. had been run under the cloak of darkness, or as Canadian breeder Frank Stronach said, as a “club.” There was an unwieldy, self-perpetuating board numbering 48 individuals and numerous committees dominated by members of the Jockey Club. For most of its 25 years, however, the Breeders’ Cup was controlled by a small executive committee headed by Will Farish, the vice chairman of the Jockey Club, and later by G. Watts Humphrey Jr., a partner in many of Farish’s breeding ventures at Lane’s End Farm and a Jockey Club insider. Meetings of the large board were seen by some board members as nothing more than a good opportunity to catch up on industry gossip, doze and rubber stamp decisions of the executive committee."

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/breeders-cup-election-game-on/

[slewis]

Slewis, do you think there is a possibility that the Chairman of the NY state racing and wagering board, John Sabini, might someday recommend that New York's tracks convert to all-weather? To be honest with you I'm not even sure if it's within his capacity to make such a recommendation, I suspect that it is. I do recall reading some comments that were attributed to him last year where he seemed to downplay the fact that there had not been an afternoon breakdown on a NYRA dirt surface for a period of months. I believe he said something to the effect that the reason there was no breakdowns at Saratoga was because the meet showcased the sports best athletes and the best horsemen around. I don't remember him stating anything about the safety of the track itself or the great work of the maintenance people. Not one afternoon breakdown at a major racing circuit on a dirt surface seemed to me to be important news, and yet the only space I saw anything written about it was on this message board as well as 2 separate colutmns by Steven Crist and Steve Haskin.

Zilla,

Let me make something clear... and I've made this point before....

Some horses, even if sound, will break down.... it's the nature of the sport... no way around it... but this should be a rare situation.

Most breakdowns occur for two major reasons.......

1) Unsound horses are permitted to race.....

2) The racing surface is dangerous. (Tracks should condsider cancelling when a track gets too sloppy and the horses are driving through the cushion to the base.)

Hard racetracks break horses down... (Imagine how many more knee and ankle injuries you would have in the NBA if they played 82 games on cement.)

When the cushion does not absorb the blow... you run the risk of injury and breakdown.

Dirt and Grass has.. and will continue to be... good, safe surfaces to race on.
But like a car that needs brake pads every 10k miles... they need maintenance....and sometimes, expensive maintenance...
The biggest decision made in running Musket Man in the Illinois Derby compared to Aqueduct's main track was safety...
I think the A's surface, which used to be terrific, is no longer.
Maybe that's just my opinion..but Im not alone.... I lost a 2yr old on that track.

Next, when you have trainers like Julio Canani who are willing to race a horse like The Pampplemousse with a small tendon tear which WILL surely result in a full BOW , I ask, what chance does the $15K claimer have when the same injury is starting to develope?
If not the trainer, the last chance for the horse is the state vet... who examines each horse on race day and feels for heat, injury, etc.

The state vets must do their jobs and not turn a blind eye to fill races.
(This is why there were no breakdowns at the SPA... Im sure in light of the Eight Belles incident and the exposure of Saratoga, there was NO leeway permitted regarding sending an unsound horse to the post.)

Congress called Rick Dutrow to testify..... They dropped the ball.

They should have summoned EVERY TRACK VET at each major track and asked them to testify if they (ever) allow horses to compete that probably should not.
Guess what???

You would see them do the same thing Dutrow did.... find a way NOT to show up...

Many of these issues aren't easy... tracks are under pressure to fill cards.... and Im not going to pretend to have all the answers... but I have the answer to one question... Will Polytrack ruin racing?...Yes, Polytrack WILL ruin horseracing....

[slewis]

The Euros have raced at the courses decided by the Breeders Cup Committee under the conditions decided by the Breeders Cup Committee. We have not asked for any concessions - we have no input even to ask for any concessions. We have not asked for any course accommodations. We get invited, turn up to race and race without any fuss. The Breeders Cup Committee have named the races the Breeders Cup World Thoroughbred Championships. So in their terms, not ours, these are not even American races - they are international races.

"For over two decades since its inception in 1982 as the brainchild of the late John Gaines, Breeders’ Cup Ltd. had been run under the cloak of darkness, or as Canadian breeder Frank Stronach said, as a “club.” There was an unwieldy, self-perpetuating board numbering 48 individuals and numerous committees dominated by members of the Jockey Club. For most of its 25 years, however, the Breeders’ Cup was controlled by a small executive committee headed by Will Farish, the vice chairman of the Jockey Club, and later by G. Watts Humphrey Jr., a partner in many of Farish’s breeding ventures at Lane’s End Farm and a Jockey Club insider. Meetings of the large board were seen by some board members as nothing more than a good opportunity to catch up on industry gossip, doze and rubber stamp decisions of the executive committee."

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/breeders-cup-election-game-on/


Robert,

May I correct you about one thing in this very accurate post...

It's NOT just the Breeders Cup.. It's all of racing in general.

I call it the "rich boys club" and they most definetly have an agenda....

To control and dominate racing for their own personal gain and satisfaction, and they have no problem whatsoever in changing the rules of the game to suit that agenda in achieving success and continued control.

How sick they must get when they see horses like MTB, BB, and Musket Man... small or hated operations (or both)... take their blue blood dreams away.

All those hundred's of millions into breeding programs... all that "elite expertise"... all that disapointment....

Sorry guys....

[Bobzilla]

Slewis, I don't necessarily disagree. I do suspect, however, that at some point in the future a political type, maybe even someone appointed by a Governor, might use their position to recommend or possibly mandate a conversion in NY. The decision to do so won't be nearly as much from a sense of humanitarianism, or any empirical data on safety, as much as it would be for trying to make a name for himself and justifying the existence of their position. I don't know enough about the current Chairman of the NY State Racing and Wagering Board to have an opinion as to where he might stand on this issue. I thought Saratoga's very safe meeting in 2008 deserved more recognition than what it seemed to get from the greater industry.

[slewis]

Slewis, I don't necessarily disagree. I do suspect, however, that at some point in the future a political type, maybe even someone appointed by a Governor, might use their position to recommend or possibly mandate a conversion in NY. The decision to do so won't be nearly as much from a sense of humanitarianism, or any empirical safety data, as much as it would be for trying to make a name for himself and justifying the existence of their position. I don't know enough about the current Chairman of the NY State Racing and Wagering Board to have an opinion as to where he might stand on this issue. I thought Saratoga's very safe meeting in 2008 deserved more recognition than what it seemed to get from the greater industry.

Well he/she wouldn't be the first POL to make a stupid move to make a name for themselves....

[JustRalph]

"The obvious choice would be Churchill Downs. It's the fairest compromise: spiritually if not technically a midpoint between the coasts, just about equally inconvenient for everyone,

maybe not technically........ maybe spiritually.......but no where actually a midpoint............ I get his point.......but come on? there is a big difference in mileage here..........equally inconvenient? I wouldn't bitch about Churchill being the right place.......but I think warm climes might be a better choice.

[miesque]

maybe not technically........ maybe spiritually.......but no where actually a midpoint............ I get his point.......but come on? there is a big difference in mileage here..........equally inconvenient? I wouldn't bitch about Churchill being the right place.......but I think warm climes might be a better choice.

I actually don't really mind the cold weather locales (I know how to dress well for the cold and still look fashionable :cool: ) and I consider Churchill to be "temperate" and as such it is technically a good fit for everyone. Its not "hot" like Santa Anita, Lone Star or Gulfstream (which has the double whammy of humidity plus potential heat) and its not "cold" like Arlington Park or Belmont. Churchill also is a facility that not only has the capacity to hold a large BC, but has the local enthusiasm to make sure its very well attended.

On a side note talking about midpoints, I am for all intents and purposes about midway between Churchill and Belmont (aka for me to drive to either tracks its a seven and a half hour drive, well the Belmont time can vary depending on how much time is spent sitting on the scenic Belt Parkway). I can say that while there is most certainly a lot of differences between the two and its a bit of distance between the two, its not halfway between Santa Anita and Belmont on so many different levels and I don't know if it really could be characterized as "neutral". If BC rotated in the purest sense and the rotation was consistent and on a regular basis between maybe four major tracks which made sense from a regional diversification perspective, then I don't think this would all be such a big issue. Yes, maybe you don't like the surface or location for a certain year, but you know it changes to a different scenario the following year and you can make plans accordingly. The two years in a row I think in some ways disturbed the equilibrium there was, that each year a different set of connections gets an advantage (be it home court, track circumference, length of stretch run, severity of turns, etc) and even if that advantage is just perception, it is still somewhat important.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Well, some complain about the off-track at CA and bias, and a few including myself have complained about the uneccessary sealing (rolling) that occurs at CD.
On dirt there is ALWAYS a bias, whether toward the best horse, or toward someone else, because real human adjustments (including neccessary ones for weather) are more likely on dirt than fake dirt (uneveness or composition), or grass (wetness). From a betting standpoint, IMO few complain that speedy Arabians should not be handicapped on a dry, hard dirt OR grass track; I should not be surprised that fewer commenters like the stamina and stability of the Standarbred on a softer surface since a quarterhorse mentality does exist in parts of TBred racing.

[ManeMediaMogul]

I have posted this before, but I still think Breeders' Cup, Ltd. should purchase Hialeah, retool it specifically for their event, move their offices there and make it the permanent home of the Breeders' Cup World Championships.

This would take care of the weather issue. Allow the BC to be held on whatever weekend they want with being beholden to any racetrack on a dirt surface and what would be a pristine turf course. Consolidate their efforts - ticket sales, seating etc. and have the "perfect" venue for fans, horsemen, horses and flamingos.

The rest of the year they could use the facility as a slots parlor, party location and event hoster (concerts, etc.) and put some real money in their coffers.

It's a no-brainer.

[DanG]

I have posted this before, but I still think Breeders' Cup, Ltd. should purchase Hialeah, retool it specifically for their event, move their offices there and make it the permanent home of the Breeders' Cup World Championships.
From your mouth to the racing God’s ears.

I have no idea of the logistics / politics of the move, but that is one brilliant idea. I don’t care that you may need a SWAT team to negotiate the current neighborhood; once inside…Hialeah will always be heaven on earth in my memory banks.
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/9666239.jpg

[bane]

I agree with the article I read today in the DRF. I also agree that Hialeah would be an excellant location for the Breeders Cup, I also agree with Crist that Churchill would be another great choice.


Personally I would LOVE to see it at Belmont every year.

[fmolf]

I agree with the article I read today in the DRF. I also agree that Hialeah would be an excellant location for the Breeders Cup, I also agree with Crist that Churchill would be another great choice.


Personally I would LOVE to see it at Belmont every year.
am i the only person that likes the rotation... i enjoy seeing the races run on different tracks every year that is part of the allure of the event..it was not monmouths fault about the weather...it never rains all day in fla. or cal.?why should a place like monmouth,arlington or lone star be penalized?keep it just the way it is i am annoyed they gave it to santa anita two years in a row!

[FenceBored]

am i the only person that likes the rotation... i enjoy seeing the races run on different tracks every year that is part of the allure of the event..it was not monmouths fault about the weather...it never rains all day in fla. or cal.?why should a place like monmouth,arlington or lone star be penalized?keep it just the way it is i am annoyed they gave it to santa anita two years in a row!

I like the rotation. A four or five year circuit with Belmont-CD-SA plus one or two from a list of additional tracks would be nice. The big names anchor, with the open slots keeping it fresh.

Hialeah's a good idea, though I wonder how the Euros would feel about it. Haven't they complained about the humidity at Gulfstream in years past?

Now for the radical ideas, working from Crist's permanant location idea. Keep the two day format, but split it between CD and Keeneland. Keeneland on Friday with Synth/Turf, and CD on Saturday with Dirt/Turf. Or, steal the 7 and 7 idea from Ohio for the BC and run at both tracks both days, allowing them to run the races quicker than one every 3 hours. :bang: You could be having the awards ceremony at one track while the horses are in the paddock at the other. :jump:

[depalma113]

I have posted this before, but I still think Breeders' Cup, Ltd. should purchase Hialeah, retool it specifically for their event, move their offices there and make it the permanent home of the Breeders' Cup World Championships.

This would take care of the weather issue. Allow the BC to be held on whatever weekend they want with being beholden to any racetrack on a dirt surface and what would be a pristine turf course. Consolidate their efforts - ticket sales, seating etc. and have the "perfect" venue for fans, horsemen, horses and flamingos.

The rest of the year they could use the facility as a slots parlor, party location and event hoster (concerts, etc.) and put some real money in their coffers.

It's a no-brainer.

Hialeah is going to reopen as a quarter horse track by March of 2010.

[Cratos]

The Euros have raced at the courses decided by the Breeders Cup Committee under the conditions decided by the Breeders Cup Committee. We have not asked for any concessions - we have no input even to ask for any concessions. We have not asked for any course accommodations. We get invited, turn up to race and race without any fuss. The Breeders Cup Committee have named the races the Breeders Cup World Thoroughbred Championships. So in their terms, not ours, these are not even American races - they are international races.

"For over two decades since its inception in 1982 as the brainchild of the late John Gaines, Breeders’ Cup Ltd. had been run under the cloak of darkness, or as Canadian breeder Frank Stronach said, as a “club.” There was an unwieldy, self-perpetuating board numbering 48 individuals and numerous committees dominated by members of the Jockey Club. For most of its 25 years, however, the Breeders’ Cup was controlled by a small executive committee headed by Will Farish, the vice chairman of the Jockey Club, and later by G. Watts Humphrey Jr., a partner in many of Farish’s breeding ventures at Lane’s End Farm and a Jockey Club insider. Meetings of the large board were seen by some board members as nothing more than a good opportunity to catch up on industry gossip, doze and rubber stamp decisions of the executive committee."

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/breeders-cup-election-game-on/

Robert thanks for a very informative post, but I believe the first BC races were run in 1984 at Hollywood Park.

However the idea of a BC venue might have been conceived in 1982.

[Bruddah]

The Euros have raced at the courses decided by the Breeders Cup Committee under the conditions decided by the Breeders Cup Committee. We have not asked for any concessions - we have no input even to ask for any concessions. We have not asked for any course accommodations. We get invited, turn up to race and race without any fuss. The Breeders Cup Committee have named the races the Breeders Cup World Thoroughbred Championships. So in their terms, not ours, these are not even American races - they are international races.

"For over two decades since its inception in 1982 as the brainchild of the late John Gaines, Breeders’ Cup Ltd. had been run under the cloak of darkness, or as Canadian breeder Frank Stronach said, as a “club.” There was an unwieldy, self-perpetuating board numbering 48 individuals and numerous committees dominated by members of the Jockey Club. For most of its 25 years, however, the Breeders’ Cup was controlled by a small executive committee headed by Will Farish, the vice chairman of the Jockey Club, and later by G. Watts Humphrey Jr., a partner in many of Farish’s breeding ventures at Lane’s End Farm and a Jockey Club insider. Meetings of the large board were seen by some board members as nothing more than a good opportunity to catch up on industry gossip, doze and rubber stamp decisions of the executive committee."

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/breeders-cup-election-game-on/


I think, you interpret my post as a rant against you and other Euro's. It is not, but thanks for making my points in your post. First my rant is against the "Blue Bloods" of American Racing, which have a pipe dream to Internationalize the racing in this country. Their Dream is stimulated by their obsessant need to be legitimatized in the Court of St James and the Euro Aristocratic circles. Historically, it's called the need to "rub elbows" with the "hoity toity". :ThmbDown:

Mean while, Racing suffers from their obsessive dreams.

[NJ Stinks]

If it were up to me, it would be Belmont and CD alternating with an occasional trip to another dirt track. I like Woodbine and Arlington but they eliminated themselves going to AWS IMO. So did SA and Keeneland.

Although I believe Pimlico has the fairest-playing dirt track in NA, I can't see the royals in charge picking Pimlico in it's current state. God forbid the racing surface itself should be the ultimate factor.

[Indulto]

I have posted this before, but I still think Breeders' Cup, Ltd. should purchase Hialeah, retool it specifically for their event, move their offices there and make it the permanent home of the Breeders' Cup World Championships.

This would take care of the weather issue. Allow the BC to be held on whatever weekend they want with being beholden to any racetrack on a dirt surface and what would be a pristine turf course. Consolidate their efforts - ticket sales, seating etc. and have the "perfect" venue for fans, horsemen, horses and flamingos.

The rest of the year they could use the facility as a slots parlor, party location and event hoster (concerts, etc.) and put some real money in their coffers.

It's a no-brainer.Hurricane season in Florida is June 1 through November 30. Unless the Breeders’ Cup wants a lot more Monmouth-like experiences, or worse, they’d have to move a BC at Hialeah to the optimal weather period near the end of December.

The problem I see with any permanent BC venue is that the surface and configuration will repeatedly favor certain horses, surfaces, running styles, etc. and we’ll see more situations like the 2008 renewal. That suggests to me that if the BC venue is to be fixed, there should be a BC Divisional Championship Series culminating at HIA.

I would use Saratoga and Santa Anita as well as HIA since CD, PIM, and BEL already host a permanent series. The first legs would be held on closing day at SAR which might be pushed forward. (The BC attendees could be a different superset of regular SAR attendees.) The second legs would take place 6-8 weeks later at SA with the final legs occurring 6-8 weeks later at HIA.

I would restructure the purses to provide incentives in the last two legs for in-the money-finishers in the first two. Essentially the largest possible earnings would go to divisional champions who won all three events. The next highest would go to one winning two legs and finishing second in a third. And so on.

One possible approach toward eligibility for any leg of the series: a) A horse must have won a Grade I race during the 12 month period prior to the first legs. b) Preference would go to such horses who also participated in a previous leg of the series based on their order of finish, c) If such G1 winners did not fill the field, then G1 winners prior to the eligibility period would become eligible if they had won a G2 race during the eligibility period or participated in a previous leg, d) And so on. Obviously the two-year-old races would fill with horses who had not yet won a G1 or a G2.

Until HIA is actually ready, I’d run the middle legs at CD and the final legs at SA. Or perhaps SA and HIA could split the winter dates, MTH and SAR the summer dates, and CD , BEL, and AP the fall dates. Meanwhile, the BC could go back to concentrating on true championship racing with definitive championship determination -- leading money winner across the series.

[Cratos]

I have posted this before, but I still think Breeders' Cup, Ltd. should purchase Hialeah, retool it specifically for their event, move their offices there and make it the permanent home of the Breeders' Cup World Championships.

This would take care of the weather issue. Allow the BC to be held on whatever weekend they want with being beholden to any racetrack on a dirt surface and what would be a pristine turf course. Consolidate their efforts - ticket sales, seating etc. and have the "perfect" venue for fans, horsemen, horses and flamingos.

The rest of the year they could use the facility as a slots parlor, party location and event hoster (concerts, etc.) and put some real money in their coffers.

It's a no-brainer.


Add me to the list of the people who wants the Breeders’ Cup to have a permanent home.

Also I am in agreement that Hialeah would be an excellent choice, but I would suggest that the dirt track not be any smaller than 1 1/8 miles (1 ¼ would be preferable) and the turf course should be 1 mile (1 1/8 miles would be preferable).

Another option would be to purchase Pimilco and the Preakness Stakes from Magna and make Pimilco the permanent home of the Breeders’ Cup.

The Breeders’ Cup should a legitimate championship venue for the racing fan because without the racing fan filling the pari-mutuel coffers with their betting there would not be any racing or breeding so to speak.