Open the Borders

[Warren Henry]

I think we should open our borders to anyone who wants to come (- subject to background check. We don't need to admit crooks or scoundrels as we develop enough of those ourselves.)

When the new immigrants enter, they should be given documentation that shows that they are welcome and can be legally hired by any business who wants to employ them. When hired, they will pay into the social security system, pay taxes (deducted on the front end), etc. However, until they become actual citizens, they have none of the rights or benefits which are reserved for actual citizens. No free education, no free healthcare, no welfare, etc.

If charitable organizations want to subsidize immigrants who need help, they are welcome to do so. In fact, we should encourage people to "help their own". If a group of West Rutabagans want to pool some of their earnings to sponsor and support other West Rutabagans to come here for a better life -- more power to them. If the West Rutabagan Improvement Society thinks that some of the folks that they are sponsoring are not sincerely trying to contribute, they can politely refuse to help them. If you can't get help from your own organizations, and none is available from the government, you must either produce or go home.

The fact that the new immigrants who find jobs will be paying into the system but not receiving benefits, should provide a huge incentive to become actual citizens.

This country was built by immigrants who wanted a chance at a better life and were willing to work and sacrifice to achieve that goal. No reason to quit allowing folks that opportunity. We need more productive citizens



In other words, if you want to contribute, come on in. However, we are not taking on responsibility for any more freeloaders.

Folks who are here illegally would have a matter of a few months amnesty to become legal by applying to the government for the new welcome worker documentation. From then on, folks who are here without proper documentation will be summarily deported. Second offense, detention and requirement to work 6 months doing "community service", whether picking up trash, painting over graffiti, etc. Perhaps even a new CCC program. There are a lot of illegals who possess worthwhile skills (building trades, packing house workers, etc.) Detainees could be making a contribution to the general good of society while they serve their time in the penalty box. Being forced to work without wages will encourage them to get legal as soon as they can.

Since there is no particular reason not to be legally documented, punishment for not having proper documentation should be significant and should escalate for subsequent violations.

I realize that this is a gross over simplification, but some variation of this theme would be much better than the existing system or better than just granting citizenship to everyone who is currently here illegally.

[LottaKash]

I have a better idea.... Why don't we just start a war with Mexico, kick their asses, and then give them 800-Billion dollars for reparations and repairs, and then they will stop coming here......Problem solved....Sort of like another "Bailout".....

Or better yet, spend an additional, 10 billion a month more as we do now in Iraq and Afghanistan.....No need for welfare or anything like it.....That will definitely keep them at home....

Mr. oSama would say "that's not a lot of money, we've got it".... Right Mr Prez-O ?....Just tell the Congress to fork over the kash, they'll do whatever you ask or say, right Mr Prez-O ?

best,

[kenwoodallpromos]

Open? I thought the only time they were closed is when Pancho Villa was alive!

[Tom]

We have a comprehensive immigration system that has worked for years.
There is no reason to change anything.

[Warren Henry]

We have a comprehensive immigration system that has worked for years.
There is no reason to change anything.
I agree with most of your posts, but not this one.

The current system as it is being administered is allowing millions of illegal aliens to come here. The illegals receive benefits without making any significant contribution. They are a huge drain on the resources of many states.

By changing their status to legal, but non benefited workers, we would gain a lot financially and might encourage good citizenship.

Our borders are effectively wide open now but to our detriment. My proposal would "officially" open the borders, but would provide benefit to the country.

[Tom]

That is not the system - it is our government ignoring the law.
The system I mean is the one like Ellis Island, people learned the language, came here legally, had sponsors, yadda yadda yadda.

The way it was unit the DC WHORES put grabbing votes ahead of our nation.
Both parties of WHORES.

What we need is anew government, not new laws. This government is thoroughly corrupt and beyond repair. None of it can be salvaged.


Second Amendment
First Priority.

[Greyfox]

I think we should open our borders to anyone who wants to come .

Let's see now.
The U.S.A. population is approximately 302 million.

China is 1.3 Billion
India is 1.1 Billion

Your policy would be like that show quiz game master Johnny Olson who used to yell:
"Come on down!"

If anyone can come, as per your suggestion, except criminals, how long do you think it would take for the populace of China and India to flood in?

[Warren Henry]

Let's see now.
The U.S.A. population is approximately 302 million.

China is 1.3 Billion
India is 1.1 Billion

Your policy would be like that show quiz game master Johnny Olson who used to yell:
"Come on down!"

If anyone can come, as per your suggestion, except criminals, how long do you think it would take for the populace of China and India to flood in?

I think you missed my point. Come if you can be productive.

[Warren Henry]

That is not the system - it is our government ignoring the law.
The system I mean is the one like Ellis Island, people learned the language, came here legally, had sponsors, yadda yadda yadda.

The way it was unit the DC WHORES put grabbing votes ahead of our nation.
Both parties of WHORES.

What we need is anew government, not new laws. This government is thoroughly corrupt and beyond repair. None of it can be salvaged.


Second Amendment
First Priority.

OK, your new government idea trumps my new policy idea.

I agree that the fault is the government as run by the vote grabbing whores.

[46zilzal]

Over the last few years, several boat loads of Chinese people have been abandoned on the West coast of Canada. Many walk right across the border into Washington state

[Greyfox]

I think you missed my point. Come if you can be productive.

I don't think I missed your point. You said "open the borders," except for criminals. You didn't say what you'd do if I wasn't productive. And if I'm in a mud hut in India, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll come over and be productive.
I'll do anything to get out of my mud hut.

[The Judge]

its the government and business owners including big business. Every time a processing plant is raided 100f illegals are taken away. Yet I have yet to hear of that same plant hiring American replacements, how does that happen. The plant owners know they will be back in a few days/ or there are replacements living in the same house as those who were taken back across.

In the San Francisco Bay Area illegal Mexican workers are clearly the majority of any construction crew including those that do city and state work. They cannot speak English as far as I can tell.

They are taking all jobs not just jobs in agriculture. Believe it or not they are even being hired by the Chinese to work as laborers in their restaurants and large stores and as cooks (I've seen a few not wide spread yet.)

Do what is legal, the Mexican government could hire Americans and place them in boarder towns to teach their citizens the legal way to enter the country.

[Lefty]

At the very least, obama should finish the wall that GWB started. But he is not going to do it. Aint that just great...
The only reasdon that this admin will give amnesty is to make instantly, 11 million or so, democratic votes. But they better be careful what they wish for, if yuh knows whut i mean.

[Warren Henry]

I don't think I missed your point. You said "open the borders," except for criminals. You didn't say what you'd do if I wasn't productive. And if I'm in a mud hut in India, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll come over and be productive.
I'll do anything to get out of my mud hut.

If you want to leave your mud hut and have a better life, feel free to come. Just don't expect to be able to get a free ride. If you aren't productive and you can't find some compassionate charitable group to feed you etc, your life here might be more miserable than it was in the hut.

I am not suggesting that we open the borders by not checking folks in. I think we have to control access in that we have to identify and document anyone who enters. Anyone here without being a citizen or having entry documentation will be deported or forced to do community labor.

I suggested that we open our borders to anyone who legitimately wanted to work and contribute to the greatness of the country. I did not suggest that we were going to open out pocketbooks and support any more deadbeats. My policy would not be a free ride, but would allow anyone sincerely willing to work for the dream to come and have a chance to accomplish that dream.

At the same time, it might be a good idea to advise the resident deadbeats that the free ride is over. If you want welfare, you will be required to do something productive to earn your handout.

Meanwhile, the government would need to change the laws so that there was an incentive to work rather than there being an incentive to loaf.

And, of course, ain't none of that gonna happen. The folks in power are only interested in lining their pockets and staying in power. All of the social programs are designed to keep people dependant while at the same time convincing them that the current elected official is "here to help you".

Almost all of our problems are caused by the goverment engaging in social engineering. Tax law is mostly about social engineering and power. If it weren't for that, a flat tax would be implemented PDQ.

[Lefty]

Almost all of our problems are caused by the goverment engaging in social engineering. Tax law is mostly about social engineering and power. If it weren't for that, a flat tax would be implemented PDQ
Warren Henry

Yep, I've been preaching that mantra for years. Nice post.

[Warren Henry]

its the government and business owners including big business. Every time a processing plant is raided 100f illegals are taken away. Yet I have yet to hear of that same plant hiring American replacements, how does that happen. The plant owners know they will be back in a few days/ or there are replacements living in the same house as those who were taken back across.

In the San Francisco Bay Area illegal Mexican workers are clearly the majority of any construction crew including those that do city and state work. They cannot speak English as far as I can tell.

They are taking all jobs not just jobs in agriculture. Believe it or not they are even being hired by the Chinese to work as laborers in their restaurants and large stores and as cooks (I've seen a few not wide spread yet.)

Do what is legal, the Mexican government could hire Americans and place them in boarder towns to teach their citizens the legal way to enter the country.


Currently, one can have a better life living on welfare than taking the bottom level jobs. We must change our policies so that taking an entry level job does not completely remove one from welfare. We have to provide an incentive to better their lives by working. Suppose we only take away one welfare dollar for each three that they earn in the private sector. Now, their life would be immediately better if they take that restaurant or roofing or packing house job.

I have no more problem with allowing a Mexican to come here to work in a packing plant than my grandfather did with allowing a Polish immigrant to come here and work in the same packing plants.

We have a lot of low level (in terms of desirability) jobs that do not have a ready supply of workers. Legal immigrants who are contributing Social Security, income tax, etc would be welcome to take those jobs under my plan. They would help build the economy so that there would be more jobs of all kinds. Perhaps some of the new jobs created because of the new prosperity would be considered "more dignified" by our US workers.

Currently, businesses can get away with paying low (illegal) wages to illegal immigrants. The immigrants have no recourse because of their illegal status. Under my open border plan, that would not be as likely to happen because the unscrupulous business person would have no leverage to force the immigrant into keeping his mouth shut. If the businesses had to pay a competitive wage, there would be less of the immigrants "taking jobs away" from existing residents.

[riskman]

Some Interesting facts at this site:
Overview http://www.cis.org/Illegal
In our analysis of the March 2007 Current Population Survey, we estimate that there are approximately 11.3 million illegal aliens living in the United States. Our estimate for the number of illegals included in the 2000 CPS is 7.3 million. This means that the illegal-alien population grew by four million between 2000 and 2007. We estimate that 57 percent of the illegal alien population comes from Mexico, 11 percent from Central America, 9 percent from East Asia, 8 percent from South America, and Europe and the Caribbean account for 4 percent. Of all immigrants from Mexico, 55 percent are illegal; for Central Americans it is 47 percent; and it is 33 percent for South Americans. It should be noted that these estimates only include illegal aliens captured by the March CPS, not those missed by the survey.
The two "magnets" which attract illegal aliens are jobs and family connections. The typical Mexican worker earns one-tenth his American counterpart, and numerous American businesses are willing to hire cheap, compliant labor from abroad. In addition, communities of recently arrived legal immigrants help create immigration networks used by illegal aliens and serve as incubators for illegal immigration, providing jobs, housing, and entree to America for illegal alien relatives and fellow countrymen.

A strategy of attrition through enforcement could reduce the illegal population by as many as 1.5 million illegal aliens each year. Elements of attrition through enforcement include: mandatory workplace verification of immigration status; measures to curb misuse of Social Security and IRS identification numbers; partnerships with state and local law enforcement officials; expanded entry-exit recording under US-VISIT; increased non-criminal removals; and state and local laws to discourage illegal settlement. With this strategy it would not be necessary to deport every single illegal alien, as many would find it difficult to work and live in the United States and make the rational decision to self-deport.

[The Judge]

clearly something new must be tried spotty enforcement certainly doesn't seem to be the way. It's just what ever the law is their should be one law applied to all immigrants equally. The numbers might very as to how many from which countries can get in but little else.

Whatever the law is thats it.

[riskman]

Ron Paul, Congressman from Texas is one of the few legislators that tries to do something about this problem. He is basically ignored. Here is what he said:

"Right now we are subsidizing a lot of illegal immigration with our robust social programs and it is an outrage that instead of coming to the United States as a land of opportunity, many come for the security guaranteed by government forced transfer payments through our welfare system. I have opposed giving federal assistance to illegal immigrants and have introduced legislation that ends this practice. In the last major House-passed immigration bill, I attempted to introduce an amendment that would make illegal immigrants ineligible for any federal assistance. Unfortunately, that amendment was ruled "not relevant" to immigration reform. I believe it is very relevant to taxpayers, however, who are being taken advantage of through the welfare system. Illegal immigrants should never be eligible for public schooling, social security checks, welfare checks, free healthcare, food stamps, or any other form of government assistance.

More Here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul427.html

[The Judge]

if an illegal alien is afraid to report mistreatment at work and poor pay conditions etc. how can they feel safe accepting government assistance. giving out their address etc. Are they given social security cards? If they are getting assistance and are illegal they must think that the government is not serious about secure boarders clearly this is a mixed single.

[lilmegahertz]

If they would stop welfare and put that money into jobs then the meth addicted moms here in Oklahoma would be the first to leave the country as no free money, could not purchase more meth and they could not be hired for the few jobs we have due to not being able to pass the urinalysis....at least with them gone I couyld use my money to help the economy by buying more goods than supporting their lazy, irresponsible azzes...

[so.cal.fan]

Someone told me today that American citizens will be required to show a lot of identification in order to get across the borders of Mexico and Canada.
Anyone know anything about this latest development?

[jballscalls]

Someone told me today that American citizens will be required to show a lot of identification in order to get across the borders of Mexico and Canada.
Anyone know anything about this latest development?

anymore to get into america from Canada you have to have passport, birth certificate, drivers license, social security card and a program from hastings just to verify why you went up in the first place.

[Tom]

Socal, starting Monday, you will need a passport of enhanced driver's license to enter the country.

Unless you come at night. :rolleyes::lol:

[Lefty]

lil. If they stopped Welfare, The dims would never win another election. :ThmbUp:

[acorn54]

i was under the impression the with the welfare reform bill signed into law by president clinton that you can only recieve welfare for two years. am i wrong on this?

[fast4522]

Not only can you live for free, but they can tell you you have to leave the country, at which point no one will make sure you in fact leave. Just as the President about his aunt.