disappointed in PTC

[lamboguy]

last year with IAN, they had good betting tracks like ARAPAHO, CANTEBURRY, and RUIUDOSO. this year they dropped those tracks in favor of churchill, hollywood, calder, pimlico, and arlington. tracks i refuse to play these days.

a nice guy from arapahoe comes on this board and is trying to promote business there, and i find i can't bet the place.

[jballscalls]

interesting, based on handle i would think that more people play hollywood, churchill, pimlico, and calder???

[lamboguy]

interesting, based on handle i would think that more people play hollywood, churchill, pimlico, and calder???

most people like the big tracks. i like the small ones though. i can't handle the synthetic surface tracks these days. i gave up on california when they switched over, i gave up arlington, and i gave up turfway. so since there are alot of tracks to follow, i stay with the convetional surface.

some people like to bet on synthetic surface, to me i am old fashioned, i just don't understand the results. they look pretty random. so since i am a 365 day a year player, i stay with the old surface. if they all change to synthic, i will just quit betting.

[jballscalls]

most people like the big tracks. i like the small ones though. i can't handle the synthetic surface tracks these days. i gave up on california when they switched over, i gave up arlington, and i gave up turfway. so since there are alot of tracks to follow, i stay with the convetional surface.

some people like to bet on synthetic surface, to me i am old fashioned, i just don't understand the results. they look pretty random. so since i am a 365 day a year player, i stay with the old surface. if they all change to synthic, i will just quit betting.

for some reason i tend to do well on the synthetics. But i know what your saying about small tracks, sometimes it's easier to carve out an advantage in those places. i feel like if i was allowed to bet at Portland i could make a killing.

[facorsig]

Yavapai was not available opening day, but was available yesterday (2nd day). I expect that PTC is working to obtain access to these other venues. Even EvD took more time than I would have liked, but PTC got the deal done.

Fred

[Imriledup]

most people like the big tracks. i like the small ones though. i can't handle the synthetic surface tracks these days. i gave up on california when they switched over, i gave up arlington, and i gave up turfway. so since there are alot of tracks to follow, i stay with the convetional surface.

some people like to bet on synthetic surface, to me i am old fashioned, i just don't understand the results. they look pretty random. so since i am a 365 day a year player, i stay with the old surface. if they all change to synthic, i will just quit betting.

A lot of big players have stopped betting synthetic altogether, track managements think its the economy.

[facorsig]

Correction, PTC accepted my Yavapai wagers (they were not an option for opening day), but all were cancelled leading me to believe Yavapai contract is still not complete.

Fred

[lamboguy]

A lot of big players have stopped betting synthetic altogether, track managements think its the economy.

when 1 big guy leaves the game it snowballs into more people leaving. when a big sees the handles drop they don't like betting into smaller pools.

i thought PTC did a great job not taking tracknet and focus on the other places that give legit rebates.

who needs to bet calder or pimlico with 2% rebates? they are only shooting themselves in the foot by even accepting wagers on those tracknet tracks. in the short run they might do a booming business, but after people tap out, they will realise that they made a big mistake in dropping lesser tracks for the tracknets.

i signed up with PTC because they had all the small places originally. now they drop them, like the banks that are raising interest rates on your outstanding balances in midstream.

[PaceAdvantage]

Correction, PTC accepted my Yavapai wagers (they were not an option for opening day), but all were cancelled leading me to believe Yavapai contract is still not complete.

FredYavapai cancelled racing yesterday and today....

[DeanT]

I agree Lambo, the 2 percent on those tracknet tracks will be a long term bankroll killer for customers.

[richrosa]

The decision on whether or not to embrace TrackNet by PTC Management must have been hotly discussed, both before the Ian Meyers tenure and after.

[lamboguy]

I agree Lambo, the 2 percent on those tracknet tracks will be a long term bankroll killer for customers.

i am very glad to see that someone else sees the same thing as i do.

[jillybeans]

Screw track net tracks..and frank stronach too. Only a horseplayer determined to LOSE would waste their money on that depleted product of five horse fields and drug positives galore. Doubt if many of these tracks will be around in three years. Churchill Downs sure did a number on horse racing when they withheld their garbage signals to competing ADW's while feeding them to RGS and the Indian reservations. Churchill downs executive have always warmed up to cash dealings!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Looks like you've stopped making predictions, eh jillybeans?

[alydar]

Screw track net tracks..and frank stronach too. Only a horseplayer determined to LOSE would waste their money on that depleted product of five horse fields and drug positives galore. Doubt if many of these tracks will be around in three years. Churchill Downs sure did a number on horse racing when they withheld their garbage signals to competing ADW's while feeding them to RGS and the Indian reservations. Churchill downs executive have always warmed up to cash dealings!!!

I don't know Jilly. Seems to me you have lost some credibility here. Not sure what your problem is with CDSN, Magna and RGS, but it starting to look a desperate and pitiful.

[jillybeans]

Stopped making predictions? Whats left on the horizon? I accurately predicted the MEC bankruptcy. I called the signal wars before anyone on this board knew what was going on. I called the significant changes in the way ADW's, Indian reservations, & offshores did business as a result of the intrusion by our US Homeland Security Department. I also predicted this mass exodus of horse owners as a result of this CHDN/MEC signal war. Most of these owners are NOT coming back....so we will work a final prediction that will play out over the next few years and if the board is still intact I will sign on and see if anyone is left. I predict more track closings, more short fields, Cali racetracks will end up in the hands of the breeders, Drew Cuoto will be the new sheriff of horse racing, and racetracks will continue to close and if not continue to offer a product only a sucker horseplayer would attempt to beat. Once a great game but the rebators tore this game to shreds. Work on who will turn the lights off as these racetracks start to hit the skids en masse by next year!:kiss: :D :p

[jillybeans]

I have lost credibility here, Alydar. you should be reading my daily postings on the Yahoo finance message board as i have now become 'chdn newbie'...stay informed, alydar. Check in and do some reading..and the next time you post..people will think you are the new America's Racing and Internet gambling authority but my deep followers will quickly notice that you plagiarized my ideas and you will be sent to the internet recycle bin. Thank you for attacking me,,,i always enjoy your sweet, well organized, thought out responses, but bring something worthwhile to the table. As for Ice, and i will walk softly on this, did a very damaging hit on horse racing as we knew it. Alydar, now go trying to pick a winner or two and make yourself worthwile. Shalom

[Indulto]

Jilly,
What is your take on TVG now that it's owned by Betfair. Any predictions of its future performance relative to the other ADWs? Is it correct to assume TVG is a more likely source of competitive rebates than YouBet?

[jillybeans]

Betfair will shake up the way business has been done. These option traders from london know ho to run a business...imagine betting a horse thatis 8/5 and recive 7.20 on their matchbook page. Dont listen to these old stodgy types that still remember the 150,000 crowds at BElmont and think tracket ticket takers are needed in the coming transformations. Those that will follow Drew Cuoot & Betfair will realize the amount of savings and extra money in their pockets from not having to get a 2% rebate..hawhaw...save your money up..there are so many changes coming that a horseplayer will be#1..the MEC tracks, Churchilldowns garbage tracks..who needs dick duchossois to TELL YOU HOW TO BET while that 89 year old guy sails around on a 180 million dollar boat, Hell with dick Duchossois. ditto for Frank Stronach. Have to include Mary Lou whitner for good measure!!! Shalom.:ThmbUp:

[slewis]

Stopped making predictions? Whats left on the horizon? I accurately predicted the MEC bankruptcy. I called the signal wars before anyone on this board knew what was going on. I called the significant changes in the way ADW's, Indian reservations, & offshores did business as a result of the intrusion by our US Homeland Security Department. I also predicted this mass exodus of horse owners as a result of this CHDN/MEC signal war. Most of these owners are NOT coming back....so we will work a final prediction that will play out over the next few years and if the board is still intact I will sign on and see if anyone is left. I predict more track closings, more short fields, Cali racetracks will end up in the hands of the breeders, Drew Cuoto will be the new sheriff of horse racing, and racetracks will continue to close and if not continue to offer a product only a sucker horseplayer would attempt to beat. Once a great game but the rebators tore this game to shreds. Work on who will turn the lights off as these racetracks start to hit the skids en masse by next year!:kiss: :D :p

You make a lot of strong points and I dont think you're far off base at all.

Im just curious as to why you think rebates destroyed the game??

California shot itself in the foot and they get everything they deserve and I dont know what the breeders are going to do to keep the sport vibrant, they're hurting as well.

I do agree that tracks will continue to close, especially if they think they're going to depend on slots to keep them alive...They do NOTHING to infuse new blood into the sport.

[MakinItHappen]

Im just curious as to why you think rebates destroyed the game??


I think it was just an attempt to get somewhat back on topic :lol: .

Best of Luck Everyone!

MakinItHappen

[ezrabrooks]

Looks like you've stopped making predictions, eh jillybeans?

I seem to remember predictions of handcuffs and perp walks...but Jilly did hit a couple events pretty close. He is correct about the rebaters killing the game.

Ez

[slewis]

I'll post the question to ANYONE who wants to explain:


How are rebates killing the game?

[lamboguy]

I'll post the question to ANYONE who wants to explain:


How are rebates killing the game?rebates are just a bandaid for a failing industry. the rebates are not the problem. some of the problem's are lack of security in the actual racing pool. uniform drug policies. to many people sitting in empty offices in racetracks thruout the country doing little if nothing. if needed i can give you more reasons why racing is in trouble. lack of slot machines is not the problem or the solution.

[BillW]

rebates are just a bandaid for a failing industry.

Sounds like you are describing slots :)

[rrbauer]

Rebates are the only competitive tactic being employed on the ADW scene. And, the monopoly mentalities are putting the screws to that slowly but surely. Screwing horseplayers is their speciality and they have decades of experience at it.

[trying2win]

Rebates are the only competitive tactic being employed on the ADW scene. And, the monopoly mentalities are putting the screws to that slowly but surely. Screwing horseplayers is their speciality and they have decades of experience at it.

A lot of truth in what Richard said above. I don't think rebates are ruining the parimutuel business, I think it's a combination of greedy horsemen groups who keep demanding higher signal rates from ADWS (no wonder my rebate rate percentage on straight bets keep going down at PTC!)... and greedy horsemen groups demanding their state or provincial governments to add slot machines at 'their' track because 'they' are so hard done by ADWS. Plus, 'they' complain that neighboring states or provinces who have slot machines at their racetracks, have way bigger purses and it's 'unfair'...blah...blah...blah. Then there are incompetent government officials who believe the 'sad', 'tough luck' stories of the 'poor' horsemen and try to ram through legislation to give these 'impoverished' souls a break. Speaking of getting a break, the most deserving ones' (the bettors) in my opinion are the ones' who should be getting some breaks from governments and/or racetracks.

As a lot of PA members know, I'm against slot machines at racetracks as a form of welfare benefits to the 'poor' horsemen. But if governments declare that racinos give a certain percentage to horsemen to augment purses, that governments should also declare that a certain percentage of slot machine revenue should also go to 'bettors purses'...i.e. a certain percentage of slot machine revenues are to be put aside by racetracks so that racetracks have revenue to lower track takeouts....in my opinion that would do more to increase business at a racetrack than baseball cap giveaway days, or rock concerts etc. Why should horsemen be the only ones to benefit from the naive people losing their money on slot machines?
Attention H.A.N.A., can you get working on this benefit for us bettors? And yes, I finally joined H.A.N.A recently. I encourage fence-sitting PA members and lurkers to join H.A.N.A. as well. The more members, the more power and influence H.A.N.A. can have for us.

Thanks,

T2W

[alydar]

I have lost credibility here, Alydar. you should be reading my daily postings on the Yahoo finance message board as i have now become 'chdn newbie'...stay informed, alydar. Check in and do some reading..and the next time you post..people will think you are the new America's Racing and Internet gambling authority but my deep followers will quickly notice that you plagiarized my ideas and you will be sent to the internet recycle bin. Thank you for attacking me,,,i always enjoy your sweet, well organized, thought out responses, but bring something worthwhile to the table. As for Ice, and i will walk softly on this, did a very damaging hit on horse racing as we knew it. Alydar, now go trying to pick a winner or two and make yourself worthwile. Shalom

Not sure it was really an attack. I just remember lots of promises of perp walks etc. So far...nothing really to talk about. As far as your other claims of clairvoyence, I think you give yourself too much credit. Most of the events that you ave taken credit for predicting were not exactly surprises to many on this board.

As far as rebators being bad of the industry, well, I think enough has been said about this topic. I personally do not see a problem. But I do not expect to change anyone's mind here.

Good luck to you and keep bashing Churchill if it makes you happy. I think there a bigger fish to fry in this industry.

Shalom to you.