The Reality of Catholicism

[robert99]

60 years of cruelty and child abuse by the non Christian Brothers and the Sisters of no Mercy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8059826.stm

[cj's dad]

Robert, why do you think that what happens in Ireland is important to those of us here in the United States?

Quote from your article;

This report makes it clear that great wrong and hurt were caused to some of the most vulnerable children in our society," he said. "It documents a shameful catalogue of cruelty: neglect, physical, sexual and emotional abuse, perpetrated against children."





This is absolutely horrible but it happened in Ireland.




Do you not think that the same quote could be applied to those children in the Middle East who attend madrassas?





Why is it always about the Christians ?????

[Tom]

I'm guessing the British Empire, as a plundering, marauding global oppressor nation did far worse to far more people over the centuries than this.

Would that be the reality of being British?

[46zilzal]

Robert, why do you think that what happens in Ireland is important to those of us here in the United States?




Because it is becoming a UNIVERSAL aspect of the forced celibacy of these people

[jballscalls]

my buddy is catholic and he loves it, says you just have to apologize and everything is ok

[PaceAdvantage]

Because it is becoming a UNIVERSAL aspect of the forced celibacy of these peopleYou're an idiot. Do you know why you are an idiot? Because you think that celibacy causes these men to abuse children.

What causes these men to abuse children is the fact that they are pedophiles. Not because they are celibate.

If they weren't pedophiles, they'd be messing around with grown women if they were straight, and grown men if they were gay.

Celibacy has NOTHING to do with it...in fact, you have NOTHING to back up this claim, which is odd, since you always seem to DEMAND facts and stats from others to prove their thoughts (kind of like in the pedigree thread over on the horse racing side).

More Catholic bashing though...got to love that...:rolleyes:

[Tom]

You know why ELSE he is an idiot? Because it is NOT FORCED. It is their CHOICE. 46 is a stranger to any type of commitment or dedication.

[Overlay]

You know why ELSE he is an idiot? Because it is NOT FORCED. It is their CHOICE. 46 is a stranger to any type of commitment or dedication.

Tom,

I'm not impugning the integrity of the priesthood as a whole, but can't your point be used as an argument in the other direction, as well? If membership in a particular group is known to have as a pre-condition the exclusion of the possibility of a heterosexual relationship with a woman, might not there be a greater likelihood (due to man's fallen nature) that, in addition to those who would have the spiritual discipline to maintain a celibate lifestyle, there would be a greater probability (purely from a statistical standpoint) that, compared to the general population, there would also be a higher percentage of people who would not have that discipline, and who would be inclined to express their sexuality in ways other than adult heterosexuality, even (or perhaps especially) if their choice of that lifestyle was voluntary?

[Tom]

I am no expert in sexual deviations, in spite that unfortunate incident at Toga
a few years ago, (:D), but I don't know that people would be pushed towards expressions of sex that were not there to begin with. I can see not having the faith to resist what come naturally, whatever that may be, not that there's anything wrong with that, but changing your orientation because of restrictions, I don't know.

the say rape is not sexual, so maybe there is something to it, but I have no insights.

I do appreciate that you spoke from a statistical standpoint, given your books! :ThmbUp:

[Overlay]

I can see not having the faith to resist what come naturally, whatever that may be, not that there's anything wrong with that, but changing your orientation because of restrictions, I don't know.

I wasn't necessarily talking about changing their orientation. The point I was making was that since the priesthood is known to be a celibate lifestyle, perhaps the people who are drawn to it as a vocation consist of a greater-than-average proportion of individuals who already have an orientation where dealing with the lack of a heterosexual relationship would not be a temptation or distraction for them (although that orientation may subsequently find outlets for the less-disciplined among them in ways that are considered unacceptable from a moral or legal standpoint).

[jballscalls]

I think lots of prisoners have changed their orientation based upon restrictions :D

[Tom]

Overlay, gottcha!

Interesting point. They are what they are not because of where they are, but they are where they are because of what they are.

[sandpit]

Great points here all around. I don't imagine after someone enters the priesthood they flip an internal switch and say, "I like little boys." Maybe more of those type of perverts are drawn to the priesthood because they feel they can hide it behind the collar, but who knows.

One of the priests (now deceased) accused of molestation was a pastor at my church when I was in grade school, but he was always very proper around me...maybe I wasn't his type.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think lots of prisoners have changed their orientation based upon restrictions :DI don't believe priests are restricted from interacting with adult members of society of either sex...thus, if a homosexual priest or heterosexual priest breaks the celibacy rule, they would have little problem meeting another man or woman with which to fool around (unlike in prison, where one is basically restricted to their own sex).

Celibacy is not the cause of Catholic priest child sex abuse. And anyone who says that it is (like 46) is plainly ignorant.

[Sailwolf]

I don't believe priests are restricted from interacting with adult members of society of either sex...thus, if a homosexual priest or heterosexual priest breaks the celibacy rule, they would have little problem meeting another man or woman with which to fool around (unlike in prison, where one is basically restricted to their own sex).

Celibacy is not the cause of Catholic priest child sex abuse. And anyone who says that it is (like 46) is plainly ignorant.

Another viewpoint:

http://www.slate.com/id/2062882/

[robert99]

Another viewpoint:

http://www.slate.com/id/2062882/

I would guess it is the unsupervised and "trusted" access to children cause that encourages the paedophile element to join. It has done so to several non religious orphanages, now closed, where celibacy is not a factor.

The other issue is that the whole system that the establishment protects is totally against the teaching of Christ in the New Testament. Where is the humanity, love and warmth of care for helping the most vulnerable members of society? How did it ever warp to institutionalised violence, humiliation, exploitation and cover up?


""The report documents a shameful catalogue of cruelty: neglect, physical, sexual and emotional abuse, perpetrated against children."

The five-volume study concluded that church officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders' paedophiles from arrest amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy".

It also found that government inspectors failed to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and humiliation. "

[PaceAdvantage]

Another viewpoint:

http://www.slate.com/id/2062882/This quote I can believe "Celibacy creates pedophile priests not by turning priests into pedophiles, but by turning pedophiles into priests."

But that wasn't what 46 was saying, now was it?